Lumon May did say "I was out of line!"

BTW, show us where in quotation marks May said it was a "bad stop."

a citation should have issued.


May refused to show his DL and registration which is fundamental. At that point I would have been detained for failure to comply with a LEO but not Mr. May who remained combative and argumentative with the officer. You are completely wrong on this issue Mr. Oats and your arguments lamenting past racial inequities are so far off the mark it borders on being preposterous but I have no illusion that you will be persuaded otherwise . . . . . I am so okay with that but you are simply off the mark here.

To an experienced person who has dealt with fishing expeditions, this is the poster child.  In regard to my proof.......take out your smart and time the officers turn and once in position to view the plate....time her.   The video speaks for itself.  The lack of a citation either indicates corruption or a bad stop.  I have not waived my position from the moment I reviewed the tape(as if this was the first time I have done the same).

Had a great time playing poker last night as people were begging me to return as a member. I actually can be the life of the party because nobody can give me any chit where I give a damn, and people have fun with the banter.  If you think I get people angry here....some people thought my name was "stupid sob"   I had resigned because of ignorance.  Every prediction I made as I stood before the membership five years ago advising them that the expansion and spending five million dollars came true, and last night all I heard was Seaoat you  were right.  My whole life bullies have thought I would back down.  I do not.  I  have had people on this forum threaten to beat me up because I would not back down.....only to find out they abused children and stopped posting because they were in jail.  I used to debate Skipper, and when he was right, I would concede his point.  He did not need a mob to try to intimidate me with more is better, rather he raised logical and lucid arguments.  I miss him.  No the stop was bad.  The video speaks for itself, and this stop was NEVER about Mr. May, it was about an officer who was wrong in every regard.

Although I can no longer golf the outpouring of love last night almost moved me to be a nice guy.....it clear touched me because I lost the poker game.....and they do refer to me as the pro......I win four out of five times, and just like here everybody wants to get a piece of me.....and when I would miss a putt on the 18th hole for all the dough.....it had nothing to do with the money....they had kicked seaoat's asz.....of course I won it all back playing pinnocle......life is sweet.....we live in a great country....and the constitution does matter.

There is no point Knot arguing w/ this man.

I am a person who admires this man and I do so with no apologies. Many attack him citing medication(s), sickness, whatever, however, I simply disagree with him on this topic and took the rare initiative to my objections to his arguments. I rarely engage anymore because of the high degree of acrimony which is a turn off to me while it fuels the fire of most . . . . not me.

May refused to show his DL and registration which is fundamental.

Please listen to the tape.  As a condition of issuance of a DL every driver gives an implied consent to give their driver's license to an officer on a traffic stop.  However, every citizen has an unqualified right to request a supervisor and qualify that consent by saying I will give my DL to your supervisor.  This citizen clearly qualified his consent to turn over his license by saying he will give his license to the supervisor.

Let me stress why this is important.  Just because what appears as a squad car zooms up behind you and turns on their lights.......does not make them LEO.  Over two years ago somebody was stopping people in Pensacola, and pretending to be an officer in uniform.  Women all over this country have been raped by this scam as Americans have been convinced that we should act like sheep in a traffic stop.  If at any time a citizen is uncomfortable with a stop as to its legitimacy or that the officer is acting erratic they should demand a supervisor, or call 911 and inform the operator that you need assistance.  Do NOT allow inappropriate behavior, but qualify your answers as Mr. May did.  He acted correctly, and if you can get by the bad stop, I will entertain how we should kowtow to police, but last time I looked the citizens of this country are the ones being served and protected......this did not happen in this bad stop.

I will eat crow when I see the conviction on either the arrest or citation, and if this was a valid stop, then we are talking about public corruption......not one word of the same....why....because everybody who understands these issues professionally know this was a bad stop.

2seaoat wrote:To an experienced person who has dealt with fishing expeditions, this is the poster child.  In regard to my proof.......take out your smart and time the officers turn and once in position to view the plate....time her.   The video speaks for itself.  The lack of a citation either indicates corruption or a bad stop.  I have not waived my position from the moment I reviewed the tape(as if this was the first time I have done the same).

Had a great time playing poker last night as people were begging me to return as a member. I actually can be the life of the party because nobody can give me any chit where I give a damn, and people have fun with the banter.  If you think I get people angry here....some people thought my name was "stupid sob"   I had resigned because of ignorance.  Every prediction I made as I stood before the membership five years ago advising them that the expansion and spending five million dollars came true, and last night all I heard was Seaoat you  were right.  My whole life bullies have thought I would back down.  I do not.  I  have had people on this forum threaten to beat me up because I would not back down.....only to find out they abused children and stopped posting because they were in jail.  I used to debate Skipper, and when he was right, I would concede his point.  He did not need a mob to try to intimidate me with more is better, rather he raised logical and lucid arguments.  I miss him.  No the stop was bad.  The video speaks for itself, and this stop was NEVER about Mr. May, it was about an officer who was wrong in every regard.

Although I can no longer golf the outpouring of love last night almost moved me to be a nice guy.....it clear touched me because I lost the poker game.....and they do refer to me as the pro......I win four out of five times, and just like here everybody wants to get a piece of me.....and when I would miss a putt on the 18th hole for all the dough.....it had nothing to do with the money....they had kicked seaoat's asz.....of course I won it all back playing pinnocle......life is sweet.....we live in a great country....and the constitution does matter.

Please show where May said the stop was bad in quotations?I am asking you again or I could be like you and call you a liar. As for the time sequence she could have viewed his tag as she was pulling behind him from a distance. You have no clue as to how long it takes the computer to show the info.He did not get a citation because the number was punched in wrong showing the tag didn't match. He indeed did have the correct tag but that didn't make the stop illegal...just a mistake.

2seaoat wrote:May refused to show his DL and registration which is fundamental.

Please listen to the tape.  As a condition of issuance of a DL every driver gives an implied consent to give their driver's license to an officer on a traffic stop.  However, every citizen has an unqualified right to request a supervisor and qualify that consent by saying I will give my DL to your supervisor.  This citizen clearly qualified his consent to turn over his license by saying he will give his license to the supervisor.

Let me stress why this is important.  Just because what appears as a squad car zooms up behind you and turns on their lights.......does not make them LEO.  Over two years ago somebody was stopping people in Pensacola, and pretending to be an officer in uniform.  Women all over this country have been raped by this scam as Americans have been convinced that we should act like sheep in a traffic stop.  If at any time a citizen is uncomfortable with a stop as to its legitimacy or that the officer is acting erratic they should demand a supervisor, or call 911 and inform the operator that you need assistance.  Do NOT allow inappropriate behavior, but qualify your answers as Mr. May did.  He acted correctly, and if you can get by the bad stop, I will entertain how we should kowtow to police, but last time I looked the citizens of this country are the ones being served and protected......this did not happen in this bad stop.

I will eat crow when I see the conviction on either the arrest or citation, and if this was a valid stop, then we are talking about public corruption......not one word of the same....why....because everybody who understands these issues professionally know this was a bad stop.

Oh Jesus Good God! Now you're bringing in the appearance of a squad car. It was broad daylight! That has nothing to do w/ what happened. Show us where in the statutes a citizen can refuse the officer a DL to give to the supervisor? You have just made up another lie.

Thank you.  I appreciate your kind words, but it saddens me that I have also had to be firm with Linda and what she has done.   Two weeks ago or so she wrote an appropriate and courageous letter to the PNJ trying to address a problem where she raised fair and lucid points.   The mob immediately tried to characterize her as an outsider, a rich person, a Yankee, a snooty person, all the while avoiding the fundamental issues she had raised.  I certainly did not care who I offended when I defended both her person and her argument of the issues.   Many on this very forum were judging her when I stepped in and simply told the truth.....no bias, but years of knowing the persons character.

Then a week or so letter she posts the most horrible cowardly letter which attacks this man because of clearly racial reasons and does not send the letter to  Mr. May which would be the respect any civil person would give another human being, but sent it to Grover.  I remember the discussions on Chicken bone beach, and I quite frankly was disappointed in her contributions in those discussions, but we are each raised differently and have our views of reality.  I happen to believe Mr. May was disrespected because of his race, and that Linda made this a racial issue.  I could ignore the lynch mob or I could tell the truth.  I have spoke the truth.   I can never deliver people from their hate, fear and prejudice, and can only point out how wrong it is.....in the end we all choose, but Atticus Finch and Abe lincoln are both my heroes and all those who have followed my posts have never seen me post one thread which would meet their displeasure, and I would never join a lynch mob.

knothead wrote:There is no point Knot arguing w/ this man.

I am a person who admires this man and I do so  with no apologies. Many attack him citing medication(s), sickness, whatever, however, I simply disagree with him on this topic and took the rare initiative to my objections to his arguments.  I rarely engage anymore because of the high degree of acrimony which is a turn off to me while it fuels the fire of most . . . . not me.

Well, I for the most part have agreed w/ Seaoat over the years. I've had my disagreements w/ him but this has gone above and beyond w/ his calling me a liar and racist. I have no admiration for somebody that goes that far and infers things that are not in evidence. He'd rather jump off a bridge that admit he was wrong and there's something not quite right about that. I will take pause at any opinions he writes from this point on as he has shown he has a very distorted view and his opinions are not reliable.

You made this a racial issue and you're out of line calling that woman cowardly. I'm so done w/ this.

If you think that is the first video tape I have reviewed, you would be wrong.  I will simply leave it at that.....you will get the full story soon enough, but I do not admit I am wrong when I am right.  No amount of threats or pressure will cause the same.  Logic, truth, and facts however always prevail.

Vikingwoman wrote:Well, I for the most part have agreed w/ Seaoat over the years. I've had my disagreements w/ him but this has gone above and beyond w/ his calling me a liar and racist. I have no admiration for somebody that goes that far and infers things that are not in evidence. He'd rather jump off a bridge that admit he was wrong and there's something not quite right about that. I will take pause at any opinions he writes from this point on as he has shown he has a very distorted view and his opinions are not reliable.

VW, you are the voice of right and reason in the room and I so admire you for that.  You were not lying and you demonstrated not a hint of racism.  The racism angle came completely from Mr. May and Mr. Seaoat and not from us!  Every single person who knows me would fall down laughing hysterically that this man would call me a racist.  NOTHING could be farther from the truth, and  yet he persists in his dark, dark accusations that I am part of a racist mob and implies that I may as well have been responsible for burning down churches and little girls or for hideous southern lynchings of innocent black boys.  That is really, really sick -- and, yes, "distorted" is a good word.  
I am totally with you, VW, in that my estimation of Seaoat's mental capacity has fallen far.  If he can be so wrong about me (and, I have to presume, about you, even though I don't know you), then he may not be right about much of anything for all I know.   Certainly everything he says from now on will be suspect in my mind.  Not that this is a big threat to Sea, since I am obviously now an object of his disdain.  His loss, not mine.

Vikingwoman wrote:You made this a racial issue and you're out of line calling that woman cowardly. I'm so done w/ this.

Thank you, VW.  And I, too, am totally done with this, and with this man.  I have always expressed (with little or no acknowledgment, I might add -- not that it was ever required) my hopes for the very best possible outcome for Seaoat's health.  For his and his family's sake, that hope will survive.  But any confidence in and respect for him have flown the coop and I doubt will ever be recovered.  He is so very wrong on so many fronts -- especially in the way  he has treated us because of his own apparent obsession with racism -- but he will never, ever see it.  It's all just too, too sick and sad.

2seaoat wrote:If you think that is the first video tape I have reviewed, you would be wrong.  I will simply leave it at that.....you will get the full story soon enough, but I do not admit I am wrong when I am right.  No amount of threats or pressure will cause the same.  Logic, truth, and facts however always prevail.

Oh bullshit! You just need to stop. Now you've viewed another tape nobody else has. In Chicago no less! I don't think I would believe another word you say w/o proof.

his disdain

No a child who fears is not an object of disdain.  Disdain would be Surf critiquing your choice of food places.  I never participated in the same.   Yes racism is from a dark place.  It is mostly taught from childhood and the environment a child is raised.  It is not a permanent condition, but words and actions matter.  You used the words.  You wrote the letter.  There is no ambiguity in your making this racial......there was NOTHING in the tape to suggest the same, but why would you not extend the common civility to send your letter directly to Mr. May.  I have lost no lucidity.  I made these same arguments on Chickenbone beach, and was equally attacked as to my person......but NONE could debate the issue.  Kids from Mobile were being treated differently.

Now, I started visiting the PB and Navarre in the mid 70s.  In those forty years I was struck by the absolute absence of people of color.  This changed around 2005 after which increasingly I saw young people of color visiting the beach.  In this environment you have expressed it was your dream to move to this environment.  If you were a family member, I would have called out that letter for what it was......part of a racial lynch mob.   Totally lucid, and I have not taken a pain pill other than IBP which is over the counter.....again social psychology balance theory gives you no options.   You believe you are a good person, You believe I am a good person, You believe your stance on the issue is correct.  balance......but if I say Linda....it was a bad stop, and your letter was racist.....you only have one choice......You believe you are a good person, you believe I am a bad person( your and Dreams insinuation that I am drugged) and you are wrong on the issue......balance.  Nothing new here.   I find balance this way.....I am a good person, you are a good person who has racial fears which have repeatedly been exposed in your writings which have led you to take the wrong side on an issue, but worse.....you propagated a letter with fed the racist fervor.  balance.   I make no apologies to either of you for racial hatred.  NONE.  I do not need to beat a dead horse.  Line up a hundred people without changing the facts and I will simply scoff, but change the facts, and logic and I will always listen.  It was a bad stop where the mob made this racial.  You and Dreams have both been part of the same.

Oh bullshit! You just need to stop. Now you've viewed another tape nobody else has. In Chicago no less! I don't think I would believe another word you say w/o proof.

You are quite incapable of understanding even simple concepts.....half cocked as usual and missing of the point entirely.   It really boils down to a matter of intelligence at some point, and I guess with this response we have reached that point.

Now that you've clarified you are not on medication,let me tell you this. You are a sick ass mental case w/ no insight into your illness. You see about as clearly as a mud covered windshield. Your own childhood fraught w/ racial hatred has blinded you badly you have gone off the deep end of racism where you can't tell the difference between night and day.

2seaoat wrote:Oh bullshit! You just need to stop. Now you've viewed another tape nobody else has. In Chicago no less! I don't think I would believe another word you say w/o proof.

You are quite incapable of understanding even simple concepts.....half cocked as usual and missing of the point entirely.   It really boils down to a matter of intelligence at some point, and I guess with this response we have reached that point.

I'm so tired of seeing you say that it just becomes laughable. That's your response when you have nothing. If you viewed another tape (which I don't believe and hasn't been made public) then you are just insinuating you have info. nobody else has and I don't believe that.

I'm so tired of seeing you say that it just becomes laughable. That's your response when you have nothing. If you viewed another tape (which I don't believe and hasn't been made public) then you are just insinuating you have info. nobody else has and I don't believe that.

This really went over your head......I thought you were being coy.  wow.

I neglected to say that I admire ReaLinda for her position on this and feel she was assailed by Oats when there was no justification. Mr. Oats remains wrong on this issue while VW and Linda tried desperately to turn him toward the light but he obviously cannot . . . .

Well, I admire you for having the courage to disagree publicly and give your honest opinion even though it goes against us liberals. I am surprised at the silence from Z,Boards and Sal as to their perspective. Right is right and wrong is wrong whether were liberals or republicans.

I neglected to say that I admire ReaLinda for her position on this and feel she was assailed by Oats when there was no justification. Mr. Oats remains wrong on this issue while VW and Linda tried desperately to turn him toward the light but he obviously cannot . . . .

You are correct.  I will no more change my position that Linda was correct on her Viewpoint letter to the PNJ because people attack me for defending a truthful letter, than I will change my position when Linda was incorrect on her email letter she posted here.   I have made my position clear on this being a bad stop from my very first post, and my analysis was color blind as I looked at a citizen defending his constitutional rights.
  What resulted in the PNJ comments section and here was a racial lynch mob attacking a man because he was black and standing up for those very rights so many Americans died for.   To write a letter and characterize this as racial, and not even have the courage or common decency to send it to the man himself was wrong.  One right, and one wrong, but nobody called me drugged or crazy defending her first letter.   I will celebrate this weekend knowing that there is still much work to be done, but that justice and equality will triumph, and that a citizen's rights will prevail when a clearly wrong stop turns a racial lynch mob on that citizen.  This was a bad stop.....but I appreciate your intelligence and  objectivity as always, but am saddened you cannot see how wrong this has been.

I have no clue how you can write such opposite statements as race was not involved in the traffic stop and then accuse people who also saw no race as being racist? It makes no sense at all.

Ok Mr. Oats I will give you this. The cop made the first mistake by entering an incorrect license number in the computer. Mr. Mays should have just given her the registration and she would have caught the mistake and she would have said I am sorry for the inconvenience and they would have parted ways. If I had stolen a car I might act like Mr. Mays did and cause the cop to go on guard...see ? Mr. Mays escalated the stop way beyond what was called for. Giving the officer my license, insurance and registration doesn't make me a boot licker does it ?

Giving the officer my license, insurance and registration doesn't make me a boot licker does it ?

Bootlicking has nothing to do with it.  A Citizen had been repeatedly stopped, and was stopped again wrongfully, and he had every right to be firm in his request for a supervisor.  He also was correct that crime is all over the area, and why are you following lawful citizens who have broken NO law.  The only traffic violation was the officer not coming to a complete stop and rolling through an intersection.

A routine traffic stop can become a very dangerous situation for an officer.  That is why every officer is trained to not escalate a traffic stop with arguing with a driver.  The officer was argumentative and the situation quickly escalated to where the officer was threatening to arrest a lawful citizen, which her training would have told any experienced officer to simply say, Sir stay in your vehicle, and I will go back to my squad and call for a supervisor.  No argument, No escalation, but more important if this is escalating the officer has just bought time for back up with the request for supervisor.  This officer broke every training protocol, and I am outraged that there has not been an investigation of HOW this horrible mistake was made.

Now in regard to the request for DL, the driver immediately consented to turning over his DL to a supervisor.  The officer was clearly unhappy about this request, and became argumentative.  That is why the command to stay in your vehicle cools the situation down, and if this driver vacates his vehicle after this command, the officer most certainly has a basis for arrest and the United States Supreme Court has been consistent in regard to officer safety.  She absolutely had NO basis absent exigent circumstances as set forth by the Supreme Court to arrest this driver for saying he will turn over his DL to a supervisor.

I have not wavered one scintilla since my first post where my analysis has proven to be dead cinch correct.   All I have done is pisz off the racist mob which made this about race from the title of this thread, to a horrible letter which I NEVER would have expected from Linda.  This fourth of July think about why we celebrate the same.   It was patriots who gave us patriotism, yet we have so few who are not willing to give liberty and justice for a little bit of temporary security.  Mr Mays has been wronged.....literally lynched by words.