Poor game attendance yesterday

3,629.


Another not sold out game. Sigh.

Gee........do you think they will set the record for highest attendance in the league this year? Or do you think they will drop from first place? My guess is that they will be first place in attendance again.........hmmmmmmm it is really hard dealing with failure................naysayers guaranteeing that attendance would never be over 500 people per game......yep.....some things do not change.

2seaoat wrote:Gee........do you think they will set the record for highest attendance in the league this year? Or do you think they will drop from first place? My guess is that they will be first place in attendance again.........hmmmmmmm it is really hard dealing with failure................naysayers guaranteeing that attendance would never be over 500 people per game......yep.....some things do not change.

SO if you remember correctly, when all the debate was ongoing about this park, I stated that attendance would start to drop if the Blue Wahoos go on a losing streak. This appears to be exactly what is currently happening.

Ghost_Rider1 wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Gee........do you think they will set the record for highest attendance in the league this year? Or do you think they will drop from first place? My guess is that they will be first place in attendance again.........hmmmmmmm it is really hard dealing with failure................naysayers guaranteeing that attendance would never be over 500 people per game......yep.....some things do not change.

SO if you remember correctly, when all the debate was ongoing about this park, I stated that attendance would start to drop if the Blue Wahoos go on a losing streak. This appears to be exactly what is currently happening.

Highest attendance? NEW stadium, NEW baseball team, well of course attendance is going to be high in the beginning but always wanes off eventually.

Hallmark, u know Oats likes to point fingers elsewhere. lol

Kane County Cougars had to build three expansions of the stadium and attendance gains were not always linear.....they at one point got over five hundred thousand fans to watch......or about half of what Cleveland is getting.......do you have any idea how many multi millions the County bankrolled, and the naysayers there were 4 fold angrier and mean spirited.....the best part is the person that they were attacking after three years had the stadium named after him......the numbers remain strong, and there is a very good chance that they will go two years as league leader in attendance........of course the naysayers said a minor league team would never play in Pensacola.........and for all those folks who want to revise history.....I was arguing with about five people who said that attendance could NEVER go above five hundred folks per game because of the PROVEN Pelican attendance figures....when I suggested that a minor league team would come to Pensacola.......I was called a fool........somebody was right then and is right now..........

Note to Oats:

We live in Escambia County, not Kane County.

Kinda hard to justify expanding our stadium when most games are NOT sell out games.

2seaoat wrote:Kane County Cougars

I thought this discussion was about the Pensacola Blue Wahoos and not the Kane County Cougars. Apples to Oranges, what is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.

Attendance may increase a bit over the next 5 game home stand as the Wahoos face the Mobile Bay Bears and some attendees will come over from Mobile. On second thought, maybe not because Mobile only had just a bit less than 2,000 at their last home game.

No......absolutely no.....the attendance will not begin to increase until the end of May through the second week of August......Families which take an annual vacation to the beach are discovering the ballpark, and in fact during this period folks are having a hard time getting tickets.

I spoke with somebody when I visited the park, and he told me they have built the stadium with plans for expansion along the left field line. An expansion of 1000 seats could bring in another 40-50 thousand attendance during peak system. In regard to apple and orange comparison.......no......it is the only minor league team which I followed the debate, and it is a spitting image of Pensacola. The naysayers failed to recognize the family draw to minor league baseball.......they were vicious in their attacks, and after the second season attendance records were in.....they simply melted away and the expansions began, and the county started bankrolling money saving millions and millions of taxpayer money by huge surplus plus great quality of life improvements.

Do you realize that the number in the attendance you gave is higher than the national average for minor league baseball.....a bad night in Pensacola is higher than the national average.....this park is one of the most successful parks in the nation, and an expansion will be discussed at the end of this year, or next season........the peak beach season is going to send attendance to record numbers........I sure hope some of these naysayers stay away from poker......they would be folding aces, because they may lose.......no concept of probabilities or what is winning and success.

2seaoat wrote:

Do you realize that the number in the attendance you gave is higher than the national average for minor league baseball.....a bad night in Pensacola is higher than the national average

Seaoat, I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but according to the Minor League Baseball website, Pensacola ranks 3rd in attendance average behind The Barons and The Suns in the Southern League. In comparison with other minor league teams they are not even in the top 5.

Current year average for The Wahoos is 4440 for The Suns it is 4503 and for The Barons it is 5460.

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?y=2013&sid=milb&t=l_att&lid=111

So if you have different numbers, please link your information.

2012 MiLB Average Attendance
Mexican - Monterrey -11,878
Midwest - Dayton - 8,513
Pacific Coast - Round Rock - 7,583
Texas - Frisco - 6,745
Eastern - Richmond -6,000
South Atlantic - Greensboro - 5,279
Southern - Pensacola - 4,823
Carolina - Winston- Salem - 4,417
California - Lake Elsinore - 3,923
Florida State - Daytona - 2,732

Math class is hard, but at least it least it keeps you guys interested....LOL


BTW.....if ya wanna watch REAL action, the NCAA Softball Tournament starts today. Bama plays the late game I'll be watching and is a regional host team.

ROLL TIDE...!!

"No......absolutely no.....the attendance will not begin to increase until the end of May through the second week of August......Families which take an annual vacation to the beach are discovering the ballpark, and in fact during this period folks are having a hard time getting tickets. "



Increase? Dont have the stats handy but I'm sure the beginning of last season, they were sold out far in advance. Second season already & attendance has waned.

Earth to Oats...face reality.

Mobile BayBears have a bigger stadium, yet as Ghost pointed out, attendance has sharply waned off. Attendance WAS great in the beginning but dropped over the yrs. If the Wahoos were winning every game with lots of homeruns, Attendance would increase I bet.

2seaoat wrote:Kane County Cougars had to build three expansions of the stadium and attendance gains were not always linear.....they at one point got over five hundred thousand fans to watch......or about half of what Cleveland is getting.......do you have any idea how many multi millions the County bankrolled, and the naysayers there were 4 fold angrier and mean spirited.....the best part is the person that they were attacking after three years had the stadium named after him......the numbers remain strong, and there is a very good chance that they will go two years as league leader in attendance........of course the naysayers said a minor league team would never play in Pensacola.........and for all those folks who want to revise history.....I was arguing with about five people who said that attendance could NEVER go above five hundred folks per game because of the PROVEN Pelican attendance figures....when I suggested that a minor league team would come to Pensacola.......I was called a fool........somebody was right then and is right now..........

Current capacity IS 7,400 seats:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Third_Bank_Ballpark

Capacity 3,600 (1991)
4,800 (1992-1996)
5,600 (1997-1999)
7,400 (2000-present)


Obviously Oats hasn't realized that Kane County ATTENDANCE has fallen sharply after their stadium was expanded:

http://www.milb.com/content/page.jsp?ymd=20130225&content_id=41971890&sid=t446&vkey=team1

year season games per game total

1991 240,290 66 3,641
1992 323,769 66 4,906 564,059
1993 354,327 65 5,451 918,386
1994 417,744 67 6,235 1,336,130
1995 477,550 65 7,347 1,813,680
1996 436,076 66 6,607 2,249,756
1997 436,505 66 6,614 2,686,261
1998 481,352 68 7,079 3,167,613
1999 451,145 64 7,049 3,618,758
2000 470,908 64 7,358 4,089,666
2001 523,222 68 7,695 4,612,888
2002 510,390 65 7,852 5,123,278
2003 516,133 65 7,941 5,639,411
2004 522,042 68 7,677 6,161,453
2005 518,394 68 7,623 6,679,847
2006 500,052 68 7,354 7,179,899
2007 468,869 65 7,213 7,648,768
2008 472,596 66 7,161 8,121,364
2009 400,040 64 6,251 8,521,404
2010 430,831 69 6,244 8,952,235
2011 410,262 67 6,123 9,362,497
2012 391,102 70 5,587 9,753,599

Red Kneckerson wrote:Math class is hard, but at least it least it keeps you guys interested....LOL

Nah, math is second hand for me. I never studied in school and always maintained an "A" in math, now other subjects, not so well...........LOL

Mr Oats says:
And the county started bankrolling money saving millions and millions of taxpayer money by huge surplus plus great quality of life improvements. LOL

The fact is that no matter how many (fans?) attend a Wahoo game, the Blue Wahoos do not pay enough to cover the operational costs. Blame it on who you will but this is a well known fact. More and More people are becoming aware of the sham..

http://advancepensacola.com/referendum-anyone/

Ultimately, We Are All Responsible

A couple of days ago, a friend of mine asked me “Who is ultimately responsible for the CMPA’s [Community Maritime Park Associates] budget?” After thinking about this for a second, it was pretty obvious. The entire city is ultimately responsible for the CMPA’s budget by virtue of their payment of taxes to support the city government. These taxes take many forms including property or ad valorem taxes, sales taxes, stormwater fees, gasoline taxes and franchise fees. In addition, natural gas provides a roughly $8 million boost to the city’s budget. So those revenues are important to city operations. In the case of the maritime park, the entire property is owned by the city of Pensacola.

The Community Maritime Park Associates, Inc. is the master lease holder for the property at the maritime park. Unfortunately, the park has not flourished under the terms of the lease and there has been much confusion as to who should market and attract business to the park. There is no clear plan for development and the CMPA does not even have enough money to reimburse the Community Redeveloment Agency (composed of the members of the city council) for a $500K loan. In fact, the CMPA is running at a deficit that will not be quenched by lease fees that must go to the city of Pensacola under the terms of the Omnibus amendment to the Master lease. This amendment was adopted as a result of the New Market Tax Credits obtained for the development of the stadium and the rest of the park.

Community Redevelopment Agency is Broke

The Community Redevelopment Agency was created in 1980 to foster economic growth and reduce blight in the downtown area, but nearly every cent of funding for the forseeable future is tied up in the maritime park and the sewage treatment plant property. Shortfalls in the CRA will be funded by the city’s general fund, so ultimately, we all have a stake in what is happening in the maritime park. And we must all be aware of the impacts of any further development.

Sometimes Having Only One Offer is Not Good

The proposed YMCA lease, recently approved in concept by the city council, is not the highest and best use of the property, but the supporters are saying that no one else is making an offer. The lack of marketing and even the lack of legal descriptions for the parcels is a huge factor in this problem. The city government must step in to market these properties for the highest and best use. The voters elected me to, among other things, be good stewards of our property. I believe the Mayor is on the right track by bringing in Coldwell Banker Richard Ellis (CBRE). We must work with CBRE, the CMPA and the community to develop a real plan for the park. It is obvious there is no clear path to developing the property, as we have seen in the current case.

The council’s vote to approve the YMCA lease is premature in light of new efforts to market the property. In addition, it is an uninformed decision to move ahead with a flawed lease, a non-existent facility plan and no facts on economic impact including new jobs and programs that will enhance the community. This lease is being crammed down our throats and many citizens are opposed to this initiative. Nowhere in any of the maritime park documents is there a discussion of facilities such as the YMCA in the maritime park. This substitution of a YMCA for a maritime museum is invalid. I would love to see a comparison of the economic impact of a maritime museum vs. a YMCA. The citizens of this city deserve to have a plan for this property and any movement forward without one damages the role of our local government.

Right to Referendum

In cases where citizens do not agree with the actions of the city governing body, they are empowered with the right to referendum. The power is clearly spelled out in our charter in section 7. The charter provides that “within 60 days following the effective date of a measure passed by City Council, City electors shall have the power to require reconsideration by the City Council of any measure passed by City Council. If the City Council fails to repeal a measure so reconsidered, the electors have the power to approve or reject the reconsidered measure at a City election.

It only requires 10 electors to commence a referendum. Once the petition has been created, the initiators have to collect signatures from 10% of the registered electors (currently 3,784 of total 37,842 registered voters). This process must be completed in 60 days. If the required number of signatures are collected, a special election will be held on the issue.

The voters of Pensacola need to be heard on this issue. I support the right to referendum, and I am hopeful that citizens will act to address this issue if they do not agree with the actions taken in this matter

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?y=2012&sid=milb&t=l_att&lid=111


The Wahoos lead the Southern league in 2012. Folks if you engage your brain you will realize no other city in the Southern League has an increase in the market during prime beach season. Pensacola will again this year lead the Southern League in Attendance. My math is perfect. They led the league last year, and they will lead the league this year.........and it does not take speculation.....we simply look at year end totals..........now if you want to pretend you have some insight into a trend.......well the year end will confirm it......but using current attendance before the beach season brings a larger market share is bone chilling short sighted.

2seaoat wrote:http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?y=2012&sid=milb&t=l_att&lid=111


The Wahoos lead the Southern league in 2012. Folks if you engage your brain you will realize no other city in the Southern League has an increase in the market during prime beach season. Pensacola will again this year lead the Southern League in Attendance. My math is perfect. They led the league last year, and they will lead the league this year.........and it does not take speculation.....we simply look at year end totals..........now if you want to pretend you have some insight into a trend.......well the year end will confirm it......but using current attendance before the beach season brings a larger market share is bone chilling short sighted.

SO, methinks it is you that should engage your brain. What I posted showed that in fact Pensacola did in fact lead the Southern League in attendance. However that is not what you posted. Your post stated "Do you realize that the number in the attendance you gave is higher than the national average for minor league baseball" From you statement, I see nothing about Pensacola leading the Southern League only, but "national average for minor league baseball." Now you are saying this is Southern League only when your first post stated minor league baseball. There were 6 other teams in 6 other leagues that posted a higher attendance than Pensacola in 2012. SeaOat in this case you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

3710 was the average for all minor league game attendance taking into account all leagues

https://ballparkbiz.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/2012-minor-league-attendance-analysis.pdf

So before the beach season when a game goes 80 people below the national averages..........we have an attendance problem. Nope, the attendance in Pensacola has always been planned around the seasonal beach season. They had an amazing first year, and absolutely tracking to exceed last year.

Anybody want to do a cash wager going to a local charity that the Wahoos will lead the Southern league again this year......this stuff is simple.

It is success.

2seaoat wrote:3710 was the average for all minor league game attendance taking into account all leagues

https://ballparkbiz.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/2012-minor-league-attendance-analysis.pdf

So before the beach season when a game goes 80 people below the national averages..........we have an attendance problem. Nope, the attendance in Pensacola has always been planned around the seasonal beach season. They had an amazing first year, and absolutely tracking to exceed last year.

Anybody want to do a cash wager going to a local charity that the Wahoos will lead the Southern league again this year......this stuff is simple.

It is success.

Well this ain't worth arguing over, specially since I do not like baseball and I am not a betting man.

I do have one question for ya. Didn't you state that the Wahoos would see attendance in excess of 500K in 2012? From what I can glean from the link you just provided, their total attendance for 2012 was just over 328K.

No, I never said 500k because that would be impossible to achieve based on the seating capacity. I do believe that number can be achieved with well planned stadium expansions, and probably within the next 10 years. It would require two important changes. I have suggested that the Reds organization play a three game series at the end of spring training when they transition to the cooler weather. This would require another team which would allow a reciprocal play date. This cannot be immediately planned because the spring training league contracts and schedules are made years in advance, but I never could understand playing in Scottsdale in 90 degree weather and then opening in Toronto or Detroit in 25 degree weather.

The second important element of the 500k number has to be a location of an air craft carrier at maritime which will bring in I-10 traffic to the ballpark. The beach market, and the Pensacola market is probably going to top out in the low 400s, in the next five years, but it will require summer vacationers going to another destination stopping for a day in Pensacola and catching a game to make the 500k number.

We may not get the Kitty Hawk carrier here, So that is speculation. Destin/Panama city beach get most of the out of state tourists. We get some but nothing like D/PB gets. Our market is to small. The ferris wheel folks want to relocate because there arent enough tourists visiting at PCola Beach to justify keeping it here. I have plenty of out of state friends and I ask em why they go to Gulf Shores or Destin/PB, "Oulet Malls" are why they tell me & we have none here.

The mentality "we have a baseball team" just isnt enough to satisfy the tourists.

2seaoat wrote:http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?y=2012&sid=milb&t=l_att&lid=111


The Wahoos lead the Southern league in 2012. Folks if you engage your brain you will realize no other city in the Southern League has an increase in the market during prime beach season. Pensacola will again this year lead the Southern League in Attendance. My math is perfect. They led the league last year, and they will lead the league this year.........and it does not take speculation.....we simply look at year end totals..........now if you want to pretend you have some insight into a trend.......well the year end will confirm it......but using current attendance before the beach season brings a larger market share is bone chilling short sighted.

Attendance last season was actually lower during the summer months:
Last season, through Memorial Day, the Wahoos averaged 4895
From Memorial Day - July, the Wahoos averaged 4843
For August - Labor Day, the Wahoos averaged 4687
This season, the Wahoos are averaging 4473

Last season, there were only three games where the attendance was less than 4000; alraedy this season there have been 5.
The smallest crowd last season was 3882, there have been three smaller crowds already this season.

You're also crazy if you don't think the Tennessee Smokies see an increase in market due to vacationers during the summertime.

None of the markets have the increase in market share during the summer like Pensacola, and as a new market the tip of the iceberg is being felt in regard to penetration of that family market.

The question is not a slight dip of attendance by the relative strength of that summer market compared to the other Southern League teams. It will prove to be an increasing share and they will continue to be one of the league leaders for the next decade, not because of some great strategy of the leaders, but because it compliments a beach vacation for a day away from the beach.....the museum, and a ballgame with dinner before or after is a no brainer, which the marketing will only increase. No market in the Southern League has 50 miles of beaches from destin over to Orange Beach which will feed this stadium with families......none. When a condo board buys a box of 8 season tickets, it offers better marketing for families to rent those condos. Package that with museum tickets and you have a day away from the beach.....priceless family fun.

Oats,

When was the last time the Kane Co Cougars had a sell out game?

Isnt their market share zillion times greater than Pensacola?

Mobile BayBears market share is ten times greater than Pensacola's & yet they cannot sellout a game and have not in a long long time.


ArmChair Quarterback!

ArmChair Quarterback!


somebody has to get it right........