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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » The undeniable fruits of liberal welfare policies...

The undeniable fruits of liberal welfare policies...

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knothead
2seaoat
Floridatexan
boards of FL
TEOTWAWKI
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TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI




Every single mayor of Detroit since 1962 has been a liberal. They created an entitlement city fully controlled by government.

A student of Detroit has a higher chance of ending up in prison than graduating.

Guest


Guest

Ah... The liberal logic poster city. It's too bad that an objective analysis would be shouted down as racism.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

The undeniable fruits of liberal welfare policies... Entitl10

boards of FL

boards of FL

Hmm. So why did Detroit crumble? Liberal politics? Someone help me out here.


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I approve this message.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Actually it was a combination of things including unions, Government meddling in manufacturing, welfare yes, and of course the draw of cheap slave labor in other countries and cities...piss poor management, EPA and all the same stuff the government loving tards espouse....not that the conservatives didn't roll up their sleeves and vote policies that have taken away our manufacturing base leaving us with BS service jobs which will ultimately fizzle out sacking the whole country....Perot was right, dead on ...I can hear that sucking sound getting louder,,,,,,

Guest


Guest

I'll let you use google for one dollar... I normally charge two... but I kinda like you.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. The steel industry collapsed.*

Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare. Then there was NAFTA.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

*http://www.thebhc.org/publications/BEHprint/v025n1/p0217-p0231.pdf


-------------------------------
EDIT:

"Never mind"...one more thing...a question...Which came first, the loss of jobs in Michigan, or the welfare state?



Last edited by Floridatexan on 4/11/2013, 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Floridatexan wrote:
C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

I am a Libertarian..I hate both parties equally. I think most women gravitate towards Democrat because they just transfer their daddy love to daddy government....they would trust and still love daddy government as it walks them to the edge of a pit and shoots them in the head...

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

The undeniable fruits of liberal welfare policies... 40316910

Guest


Guest

Liberals is what done kilt Detroit...?



Painting with a broad brush makes the corner get there a lot quicker.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

I am a Libertarian..I hate both parties equally. I think most women gravitate towards Democrat because they just transfer their daddy love to daddy government....they would trust and still love daddy government as it walks them to the edge of a pit and shoots them in the head...

That's right...blame the women, Teo. It's all about the women. I did love my dad. For most of his life, he sold cars. Lots and lots of cars. But loving my dad has absolutely nothing to do with my party affiliation. I'm not happy with the Democrats either, but Republicans have gone to crazyland. And there are no other viable parties because the game is rigged to marginalize them. And your little metaphor is stupid and disgusting.

Guest


Guest

Floridatexan wrote:C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. The steel industry collapsed.*

Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare. Then there was NAFTA.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

*http://www.thebhc.org/publications/BEHprint/v025n1/p0217-p0231.pdf


-------------------------------
EDIT:

"Never mind"...one more thing...a question...Which came first, the loss of jobs in Michigan, or the welfare state?


1) Crap cars for the most part for many years.
2) The insistency that guys who put tires on cars be paid $40 or more an hour for what someone at Big Ten does for $8 an hour.
3) Paying people to NOT work at the plant for some Godforsaken reason *(union oriented) but pulling in a full salary.
4) Prima-donna health care plans to go along with over paid pensions.
5) Unions and liberalism in general. Name one conservative union please.


More?

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Floridatexan wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

I am a Libertarian..I hate both parties equally. I think most women gravitate towards Democrat because they just transfer their daddy love to daddy government....they would trust and still love daddy government as it walks them to the edge of a pit and shoots them in the head...

That's right...blame the women, Teo. It's all about the women. I did love my dad. For most of his life, he sold cars. Lots and lots of cars. But loving my dad has absolutely nothing to do with my party affiliation. I'm not happy with the Democrats either, but Republicans have gone to crazyland. And there are no other viable parties because the game is rigged to marginalize them. And your little metaphor is stupid and disgusting.

So I musta hit pretty close to a homerun ....it's ok to love and trust Daddy. Government masquerades as daddy in everything now days...just ask single women who they trust....Women like having a big mean government that will bust balls for them. Very Happy

Guest


Guest

If I had to pick a root cause it would actually be during the auto build up during the progressive movement that pursued local government reform (1915ish). The big push was to make local elections mob rule... all representatives were at large. The idea was to curb corruption... but what it really did was separate the politician from it's immediate constituents. The net effect lead to a collusion with labor and little planning for districts.

That may sound far removed from the severe decline that began during the 60's and the race riots et all... but the boom times carried an enormous load for a long time. In some ways detroit is a look back at our country... we were the most productive country on earth... and that's provided us some insulation... but the reality of, progressive policies, running deficits and unservicable debt will eventually catch up. Raise taxes and run off the productive.

There should be a lesson here... or I'm just a racist. We're having golden goose for dinner... hope you're hungry.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

I am a Libertarian..I hate both parties equally. I think most women gravitate towards Democrat because they just transfer their daddy love to daddy government....they would trust and still love daddy government as it walks them to the edge of a pit and shoots them in the head...

That's right...blame the women, Teo. It's all about the women. I did love my dad. For most of his life, he sold cars. Lots and lots of cars. But loving my dad has absolutely nothing to do with my party affiliation. I'm not happy with the Democrats either, but Republicans have gone to crazyland. And there are no other viable parties because the game is rigged to marginalize them. And your little metaphor is stupid and disgusting.

So I musta hit pretty close to a homerun ....it's ok to love and trust Daddy. Government masquerades as daddy in everything now days...just ask single women who they trust....Women like having a big mean government that will bust balls for them. Very Happy

My dad passed away in 1985, Teo. I have lived almost half my life without him. And you are treading on thin ice, my friend.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

PkrBum wrote:If I had to pick a root cause it would actually be during the auto build up during the progressive movement that pursued local government reform (1915ish). The big push was to make local elections mob rule... all representatives were at large. The idea was to curb corruption... but what it really did was separate the politician from it's immediate constituents. The net effect lead to a collusion with labor and little planning for districts.

That may sound far removed from the severe decline that began during the 60's and the race riots et all... but the boom times carried an enormous load for a long time. In some ways detroit is a look back at our country... we were the most productive country on earth... and that's provided us some insulation... but the reality of, progressive policies, running deficits and unservicable debt will eventually catch up. Raise taxes and run off the productive.

There should be a lesson here... or I'm just a racist. We're having golden goose for dinner... hope you're hungry.

Are you just dense? It was just that kind of thinking that led to American decline...oh, we're the best country in the world...we don't have to compete...we will always have jobs...because we're the best country in the world. Horse hockey. We're nowhere near where we were before in any measure of greatness, and it's not because of progressive policies; it's because we have been repeatedly robbed; it's because we think in short-term gains and love money above our fellow man. People are more productive when they can rise above "treading water" and barely making ends meet to planning for their futures and that of their families; when they have time to devote to creative endeavors; when they can find the means to start new businesses or keep older ones going; progressivism INVESTS in people. Not all people prove worth the investment, but most people, when presented with an opportunity to advance and few impediments, will do so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Guest


Guest

I guess I must be dense... Detroit is the shining example of progressive perfection and I was way off base.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Floridatexan wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

I am a Libertarian..I hate both parties equally. I think most women gravitate towards Democrat because they just transfer their daddy love to daddy government....they would trust and still love daddy government as it walks them to the edge of a pit and shoots them in the head...

That's right...blame the women, Teo. It's all about the women. I did love my dad. For most of his life, he sold cars. Lots and lots of cars. But loving my dad has absolutely nothing to do with my party affiliation. I'm not happy with the Democrats either, but Republicans have gone to crazyland. And there are no other viable parties because the game is rigged to marginalize them. And your little metaphor is stupid and disgusting.

So I musta hit pretty close to a homerun ....it's ok to love and trust Daddy. Government masquerades as daddy in everything now days...just ask single women who they trust....Women like having a big mean government that will bust balls for them. Very Happy

My dad passed away in 1985, Teo. I have lived almost half my life without him. And you are treading on thin ice, my friend.

Yeah I better be careful. You will have your all powerful government daddy beat the snot out of me because you are an emotionally driven wreck like most of Obamas braindead zombies....Any dimwit knows I am not in any way talking about your biological daddy...but then liberals can connect school shootings with inadequate gun control so with that kind of thinking Obama's drooling women may elect him for a 3rd term.

Oh, my dad was killed in the coal mines when I was less than a year old so count your blessings..

2seaoat



This analysis is a bit simplistic. I worked for a bearing manufacturer who in the mid sixties moved their bearing plant from Detroit. They were looking to diversify and lower labor costs. They build three plants in rural America, and they cut their labor costs by 50%, and were able to get economic development incentives from other states who paid the company to move to their state. I worked at one of these roller bearing plants in the midwest between finishing my BA and finishing my MA and thesis. I was working 13 straight days, getting paid time and a half on Saturdays, and double time on Sundays.......I was socking money away and the local small midwest town was booming with over 400 jobs which were the best paying jobs in town. This was 1974.

In 1976 after finishing my degree and looking for a position with a college, I put an application in with an urban bearing plant, also located in the midwest. I was immediately was hired as a machinist, even though I had a masters degree. I was paid double of what I was getting in the rural roller bearing plant which fled Detroit. I also was only running about a third of the machines I ran at the non union plant. The new plant was UAW. They moved me into the office after 3 months and I began a new career, but I watched half the production like the other bearing plant move from the urban area to Ky......where like the move from Detroit, they were able to reduce labor costs in half. The problem was in the next 15 years those plants were moved to Mexico and China, and all the American jobs were gone. This also happened to the original plant which left Detroit.

Now we could argue that what happened to Detroit was Progressive give aways.......that certainly is part of the answer. We could argue that part of the problem was that the huge success of 1920-1940 Detroit has simply aged and need tremendous investments in capital to restore its infrastructure, but the truth is that wealth will always maximize their return of capital.....always....without some calibration by society.....and in the end as wealth discounted the importance of labor.....we had a 30 year period of abandonment of union plants for rural right to work and prosperity in rural right to work states, but then the unthinkable......the abandonment of America........and by that time we were out of the scapegoats of liberals and unions.......we only had to blame ourselves for the misguided policies of 50 years of unfettered tax incentives to gut American wealth and factories.

So, yes.....Detroit does represent failures.....but Germany puts the importance of labor, training, and improved median income as a societal goal.....and yes that highly successful Germany.....pays more to their workers by 10 buck an hour in wages and benefits than the United States.......They live in cities which are hundreds of years of age and have not been sacked by out of control capitalism on one end, and selfish self serving short term Union environments which have more to do with getting mine than long term prosperity. In between these extremes lies common sense and hope.....it is time to quit this on size fits all analysis and begin seeking the truth.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

I am a Libertarian..I hate both parties equally. I think most women gravitate towards Democrat because they just transfer their daddy love to daddy government....they would trust and still love daddy government as it walks them to the edge of a pit and shoots them in the head...

That's right...blame the women, Teo. It's all about the women. I did love my dad. For most of his life, he sold cars. Lots and lots of cars. But loving my dad has absolutely nothing to do with my party affiliation. I'm not happy with the Democrats either, but Republicans have gone to crazyland. And there are no other viable parties because the game is rigged to marginalize them. And your little metaphor is stupid and disgusting.

So I musta hit pretty close to a homerun ....it's ok to love and trust Daddy. Government masquerades as daddy in everything now days...just ask single women who they trust....Women like having a big mean government that will bust balls for them. Very Happy

My dad passed away in 1985, Teo. I have lived almost half my life without him. And you are treading on thin ice, my friend.

Yeah I better be careful. You will have your all powerful government daddy beat the snot out of me because you are an emotionally driven wreck like most of Obamas braindead zombies....Any dimwit knows I am not in any way talking about your biological daddy...but then liberals can connect school shootings with inadequate gun control so with that kind of thinking Obama's drooling women may elect him for a 3rd term.

Oh, my dad was killed in the coal mines when I was less than a year old so count your blessings..

I do count them every day. You think I need a father figure? One thing I can guarantee...you're not one, and you will never be one. I would feel sorry for you if you weren't such a jerk.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI



Few men can compete with the government in women's reasoning. Also I hope you live long enough to see who the real jerk is. It is your beloved government. I doubt you ever understand.

knothead

knothead

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

I am a Libertarian..I hate both parties equally. I think most women gravitate towards Democrat because they just transfer their daddy love to daddy government....they would trust and still love daddy government as it walks them to the edge of a pit and shoots them in the head...

********************************************************

So you claim to be a Libertarian huh? That's the same as a fence sitter or a person who withdraws to a political position with opaque lines . . . . . you can be anything you say when you say. . . . . . . I AM A LIBERTARIAN!!!! Big freaking deal, get in the game and get off the fence for God's sake. I call Bull shit!!!

Guest


Guest

knothead wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

I am a Libertarian..I hate both parties equally. I think most women gravitate towards Democrat because they just transfer their daddy love to daddy government....they would trust and still love daddy government as it walks them to the edge of a pit and shoots them in the head...

********************************************************

So you claim to be a Libertarian huh? That's the same as a fence sitter or a person who withdraws to a political position with opaque lines . . . . . you can be anything you say when you say. . . . . . . I AM A LIBERTARIAN!!!! Big freaking deal, get in the game and get off the fence for God's sake. I call Bull shit!!!

being a libertarian isn't sitting on the fence. Its taking a stand against the "status quo".

knothead

knothead

Chrissy wrote:
knothead wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
C'mon, Teo...get real. Detriot's demise was in the works for decades. Part of it was done by the auto industry itself...planned obsolescence...the other part had to do with the public being just not so interested in buying American cars anymore, partly because Detriot hadn't kept up...I don't know enough about the auto unions to say they were corrupt, but it wouldn't surprise me...the gasoline crisis didn't help, but a large number of people were apparently in denial about the depth of that crisis, because the auto industry was building, and people were buying, SUV's in large numbers...not known for their fuel economy...or safety.

Many of the industries associated with automobiles were moved overseas or became something else due to leveraged buyouts. Foreign companies began to compete by offering more innovative products, and people bought them for that reason, even though, if you'll recall, getting parts and maintenance on them could be a nightmare.

I could go on, but I almost can't get over how inane your premise is in attacking "liberals" for the demise of the Rust Belt.

I am a Libertarian..I hate both parties equally. I think most women gravitate towards Democrat because they just transfer their daddy love to daddy government....they would trust and still love daddy government as it walks them to the edge of a pit and shoots them in the head...

********************************************************

So you claim to be a Libertarian huh? That's the same as a fence sitter or a person who withdraws to a political position with opaque lines . . . . . you can be anything you say when you say. . . . . . . I AM A LIBERTARIAN!!!! Big freaking deal, get in the game and get off the fence for God's sake. I call Bull shit!!!

being a libertarian isn't sitting on the fence. Its taking a stand against the "status quo".


***************************************************

Chrissy, look up the platform of Libertarians and tell me if you are one. . . . .

Sal

Sal

knothead wrote:

So you claim to be a Libertarian huh? That's the same as a fence sitter or a person who withdraws to a political position with opaque lines . . . . . you can be anything you say when you say. . . . . . . I AM A LIBERTARIAN!!!! Big freaking deal, get in the game and get off the fence for God's sake. I call Bull shit!!!

It's no surprise that libertarianism holds such appeal for undergraduates with zero real world experience.

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