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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Hey Sal, here's an example of that dreaded "austerity" that's sweeping the country.

Hey Sal, here's an example of that dreaded "austerity" that's sweeping the country.

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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The post office wanted to end Saturday delivery to save enough money to keep it from having to raise the cost of postage again after they already had to raise it last year.

But the Congress got in the act and made the post office change it's mind.

That's some real groundswell of austerity we've got going when we can't even give up Saturday mail delivery aint it.

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:The post office wanted to end Saturday delivery to save enough money to keep it from having to raise the cost of postage again after they already had to raise it last year.

But the Congress got in the act and made the post office change it's mind.

That's some real groundswell of austerity we've got going when we can't even give up Saturday mail delivery aint it.


Yep.

Republicans in Congress are doing their damnedest to see that the USPS is driven into the ground and ultimately privatized.

That's austerity at it's very core.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Sal wrote:

Republicans in Congress are doing their damnedest to see that the USPS is driven into the ground and ultimately privatized.

That's austerity at it's very core.[/font]
Nah, Congress is cowtowing to the postal union. No saturday delivery translates into the need for fewer postal employees.
Like most government entities, the post office is bloated. You would characterize any attempt to deal with that as "austerity".
But the real austerity comes later after it wasn't dealt with and we kept pretending that it can remain the same forever. That's when the whole thing goes under and there is no longer any U.S. Mail. And no longer ANY postal jobs.
Streamlining it would allow it to exist longer.

It's becoming very evident to me that this word "austerity" is becoming like the words "liberal" and "conservative" have already become. Pretty fucking meaningless. Just catch words used by small minds to convey simpleton ideas. This country's national dialogue is now mired in that.

Sal

Sal

The USPS "crisis" has been manufactured by Republicans in Congress and their corporatist masters who are licking their chops at the prospect of obtaining USPS's vast resources built up over decades at a fraction of what they're worth.

I have firsthand knowledge of UPS's and FedEx's decades long lobbying campaign.

From the onerous and unprecedented retirement prefunding requirement to the ban from competing in any endeavor in which they could make money because of their vast network, to restrictions on setting their own rates for services, Congress has constructed a system designed to fail.

It's just another manifestation of the conservative philosophy that there is no public good, and everything should be privatized regardless of the cost to society and its citizenry.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Sal wrote:The USPS "crisis" has been manufactured by Republicans in Congress and their corporatist masters who are licking their chops at the prospect of obtaining USPS's vast resources built up over decades at a fraction of what they're worth.

I have firsthand knowledge of UPS's and FedEx's decades long lobbying campaign.

From the onerous and unprecedented retirement prefunding requirement to the ban from competing in any endeavor in which they could make money because of their vast network, to restrictions on setting their own rates for services, Congress has constructed a system designed to fail.

It's just another manifestation of the conservative philosophy that there is no public good, and everything should be privatized regardless of the cost to society and its citizenry.

If you have first-hand knowledge then your first-hand knowledge just TOTALLY OVERLOOKED what has actually happened to the post office. It now should be so obvious to you and everyone else that it's pretty pathetic if it's not.
It's not UPS and Fedex or any other corporate capitalist boogeyman which
has dinosaur'ed the post office. It's technology, Sal, pure and simple.
The same thing that's making newspapers obsolete.

If the post office collapse was "manufactured" by anybody, it was Robert Noyce and silicon valley. Not UPS or Fedex.

Guest


Guest

Sal wrote:The USPS "crisis" has been manufactured by Republicans in Congress and their corporatist masters who are licking their chops at the prospect of obtaining USPS's vast resources built up over decades at a fraction of what they're worth.

I have firsthand knowledge of UPS's and FedEx's decades long lobbying campaign.

From the onerous and unprecedented retirement prefunding requirement to the ban from competing in any endeavor in which they could make money because of their vast network, to restrictions on setting their own rates for services, Congress has constructed a system designed to fail.

It's just another manifestation of the conservative philosophy that there is no public good, and everything should be privatized regardless of the cost to society and its citizenry.

Has there never been a liberal majority in Congress? Oh wait yes there has - recently too, I wonder why those slackers didn't put the fix in? Oh that's right, so hyper-partisan hacks could BLAME the R's again. Too funny.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Yes there may still be some little old ladies who want to get the junk mail on Saturday to have something to look forward to in their lives for the weekend.
But those little old ladies are getting fewer by the day.
And frankly, I honestly don't give a flying rat's ass if there is no mail delivery on Saturday. And if it means laying off some of those overpaid government slackers with their perks that I sure as hell never got during my working career, then I honestly don't give a rat's ass about that either.

If that's "austerity" then count me in for it.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

But of course the whole point of this thread was, Sal, that this "austerity" (like most all other attempts at "austerity") has now been shot down.
If it had been upheld, then your argument that austerity is running amok wouldn't look so silly. lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I can't even imagine what's coming next.
The debt lovers told me the government debt is no problem because "the government can print it's own money".
I bet before this thread is over with, the same debt lovers are gonna tell me "the post office debt is no problem because the post office can print it's own stamps".

Jesus.


Guest


Guest

Lord forbid that a union management/employee structure and retirement plan funds itself... it's crazy talk.

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:I can't even imagine what's coming next.
The debt lovers told me the government debt is no problem because "the government can print it's own money".
I bet before this thread is over with, the same debt lovers are gonna tell me "the post office debt is no problem because the post office can print it's own stamps".

Jesus.


If it weren't for the Postal Enhancement and Accountability Act, which forces the USPS to prefund 75 years of retirement benefits (a requirement that no other institution has ever faced), the USPS would have on hand a $1.5 billion SURPLUS, Bob.

Failure by design.

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:Lord forbid that a union management/employee structure and retirement plan funds itself... it's crazy talk.

For 75 years in advance??

They're being forced to fund retirement benefits for employees they haven't even hired yet!

Crazy talk, indeed.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Sal wrote:

If it weren't for the Postal Enhancement and Accountability Act, which forces the USPS to prefund 75 years of retirement benefits (a requirement that no other institution has ever faced), the USPS would have on hand a $1.5 billion SURPLUS, Bob.

Failure by design.


Time out. I need to understand one part of this. This is what wiki says...
__________________
The PAEA stipulates that the USPS is to make payments of $5.4 - $5.8 billion into the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund, each year, from 2007 to 2016 in order to prefund 50 years of estimated costs. This requirement also explicitly stated that the USPS was to stop using its savings to reduce postal debt, which was stipulated in Postal Civil Service Retirement System Funding Reform Act of 2003.[4] This is in addition to deductions from pay for federal contribution to social services.[5] This pre-funding method is unique to the USPS. In June 2011, the USPS had to suspend its weekly payment of 115 million into the fund because it had reached 8 billion dollars in debt and the retirement plan had a surplus of 6.9 billion dollars.[6] The schedule rate of payment has been changed and the USPS is currently expected to make a payment of 5.6 billion no later than September 30, 2012.
___________________

I only need to understand the sentence I've highlighted in black. So somebody try to explain what in fuck that's saying.
It's paying $115 million EVERY WEEK into the retirement fund. But then it "has reached $8 billion in debt". But in the same breath it says "the retirement plan had a surplus of $6.9 billion".
Is it just me or is that convoluted?


Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Jesus I must be hungover worse than I thought. That was simple as hell so I don't know why I had trouble with it to start.

This unbelievably ridiculous insane policy that was adopted, actually resulted in the post office having to pay so much (prefund so much) into the fucking retirement fund for those miserable slackers; THAT IT ACTUALLY GOT TO THE POINT THAT IT LEFT THE POST OFFICE $8 BILLION IN DEBT BY DOING SO; WHEN AT THE SAME TIME THE RETIREMENT FUND IT HAD BEEN FUNDING HAD GROWN TO A SURPLUS OF ABOUT THE SAME FUCKING AMOUNT.

Jesus Henry Christ and Mother Mary and Joseph and the donkeys they all rode in on. This is all FAR MORE insane than even my worst nightmares could ever conceive.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

All I can say is this. I hope to god they run ALL the politicians and lobbyists and union types and whatever other mensas and government hacks what came up with this shit through that mental health check they're talking about BEFORE they ever let any of em have a gun. Regardless if they're republicans, democrats, teabags, libertarians, TerrorLibians or whatever the fuck they call themselves.

Sal

Sal

Failure by Design aka Vulture Capitalism ...

Create an artificial crisis, strong arm public institutions into bankruptcy, and privatize public resources at pennies on the dollar.

These are resources bought by the American taxpayers over decades.

FedEx and UPS will be on that carcass so fast it'll make your head spin.

And, when you're paying $4.99 to mail a fucking letter, you can bitch and moan about the unions ruining everything because they had the audacity to provide their employees a dignified retirement.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Sal wrote: you can bitch and moan about the unions ruining everything because they had the audacity to provide their employees a dignified retirement.

I was all for union level wages and dignified retirement just as much as you are. But I was all for that when this country was still flush and it's economic engine and it's labor force were still monopolizing the world, Sal.

You might have missed it even though "it's been in all the papers" for quite a while now. But a while back our economic engine and our labor force had to start competing with Asia and other emerging parts of the world.
And that seed change transition was helped along by politicians who were bought and paid for by the multinational corporations who stood to profit from it. All the while guaranteeing the american public that it would be good for us because it would create "all those new good jobs that will come along with it".
In the words of Bill Clinton: "this (the China Trade Agreement) will create a one-way street of trade TO China".
And remember, at the time his wife Hillary was on the board of directors of Walmart.

It didn't work out the way we were told it would.






Last edited by Bob on 4/11/2013, 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest


Guest

There is a serious problem in this country with underfunded public pensions. Here's a radical idea... if you want to have or provide a dignified retirement/pension... plan to pay for it. The further out the better. Either that or scale it back... be reasonable and rational.

Is that asking to much of unions and government employees?

As for the future of the pony express... er I mean the usps... I've mailed one letter this year. How about y'all?

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:
Sal wrote:Failure by Design aka Vulture Capitalism ...

Create an artificial crisis, strong arm public institutions into bankruptcy, and privatize public resources at pennies on the dollar.

These are resources bought by the American taxpayers over decades.

FedEx and UPS will be on that carcass so fast it'll make your head spin.

And, when you're paying $4.99 to mail a fucking letter, you can bitch and moan about the unions ruining everything because they had the audacity to provide their employees a dignified retirement.

I'll have to admit, Sal, that I thought Teo had the tinfoil concession around here. But not any more. Your koolaid is even stronger than his is. lol

This isn't a conspiracy theory, Bob.

I'm sorry to have to give you a crash course on 21st Century American Capitalism, but this is reality.

There's big money to be made in real and perceived crises and disasters.

It's too bad you don't read books, because there are some real eye-openers out there on precisely this subject matter.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Do what I always tell teo to do, Sal. Take the tinfoil hat off, put down the koolaid, and try to think about something.

Regardless of who the players are and regardless of what the business model is, the cold hard fact now is that home delivery of first class mail is no longer profitable.
Simply because of a loss of demand for it. Period. And that demand is growing less and less with time.
And no matter how evil or sinful or greedy or republican or conservative or corporate or capitalist Fedex and UPS are, they can never put that genie back in the bottle.
All a $4.99 stamp would accomplish is to drive bigger nails into that coffin lid and put it in the ground quicker.





Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Two months ago, I experienced "first-hand" (since you like that argument) exactly what is happening with the post office.
Up until two months ago, the only first class mail I was still using was to send christmas cards and to pay bills.
And because my bank left town I had to get another bank account. And only because I had a conversation with the new bank employee did I discover "bill-pay" for the first time.
And now two months later, the only first class mail I still use is christmas cards (and I'll probably use the internet for that next year too).

Hell I was way behind the curve. I should have known what bill-pay was years ago. And I imagine a great many more are transitioning to that as we speak. And I imagine a great many more were only using first class mail for that too.
And when that "great many more" starts to have an impact, that post office is history. Period.

All the rest is nothing but the inane drivel of conspiracy theory.




Guest


Guest

I'm not sure why leftists and labor seem driven to set up unsustainable models... looks like that greed thing they like to project. This link isn't even a full view... but the full view is too daunting.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324100904578403213835796062.html

Guest


Guest

This is actually from a local complaining about the top heavy structure and the layoffs. Bureaucracy is a bitch.

http://saaal-apwu.org/blog/sam-wood-011413.html

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

PkrBum wrote:This is actually from a local complaining about the top heavy structure and the layoffs. Bureaucracy is a bitch.

http://saaal-apwu.org/blog/sam-wood-011413.html

That's the same insane white collar greed we find in most of corporate America anymore. A corporation is failing and the assholes at the top are sucking out what blood is left like vampires.
We saw it first with Enron. Then we started to see it with so many that it made our heads spin. And then even AFTER the sons of bitches gambled their companies away leading to the financial system collapse, we were still seeing the assholes at the top of those Wall Street outfits doing it some more.

It's not a conspiracy. It's just fucking selfishness and greed on a level that makes Ebeneezer Scrooge look like Mother Theresa in comparison. And if Sal and I find any agreement it's how it makes me sick to my stomach to see those right-wing morons, and that includes the politicians, the media blowhards, AND the dumb shits they brainwash, still defend that as fucking "capitalism". Capitalism my ass. That's just a bunch of lowlife crooks parading as capitalism.

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