Nurses get fired for refusing the flu shot.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/indiana-hospital-fires-nurses-refusing-flu-shot/story?id=18116967

Our rights are being infringed upon.

Forget what these 2 blond sheep say. This is a situation that is spreading across the country where they are forcing us to get this shot. I have never had this shot and I am pretty much the only one who doesnt get flu at work every year.

What do you think? Do you think our rights to our own bodies should be given up because we are healthcare professionals?

Flu in health workers on the 21st floor of Northwestern Hospital is a death sentence for some of the patients. If the flu shot has no utility in prevention and spread of flu......then I agree that imposition of the same requirement would not be upheld by a court. Ask a person entering the military about their choices of vaccinations. Ask why there is zero tolerance for BAC in a Pilot's blood even though he may have consumed alcohol the day before on his day off. Why when you travel to certain countries is there a vaccination requirement?

I could care less that the 80 year old pilot screams about his rights being violated because he can no longer be a pilot because of age, nor do I think folks who choose to work in the health care field should be allowed to put patients survival at risk because their OPINION of flu shots is different than settled science on the utility of the same. I do not know the science and utility of flu shots, but I lost my great grandfather in the 1918 flu epidemic and if a pandemic was to happen again....we certainly are going to need the highest probability to keep our health care system functioning. A health care worker who has strong opinions about the Flu shots should sue, or find new work where their choice may not negatively impact patients.

I agree with Seaoat.

I have never gotten a flu shot but for those who work in the health care field I think it's a reasonable requirement.

+ to Neko. It's really a no-brainer.

A person who has religious beliefs that opposes blood transfusions should probably not chose phlebotomy or nursing.

It comes down to public safety and the hospital's responsibility to protect it's clients.

What about the idea of NOT working when your sick?

What about the entire "UNIVERSAL PRECAUTIONS" that we are trained to abide by that are set in guidlines to protect patients and ourselves?

What about the FACT that my father, my sisters, myself, my kids never get the flu and we dont take flu shots.

What about the FACT that the flu shot doesnt cover ALL strains of flu?

Does it seem like we are getting less cases of flu now that we insist on EVERYONE having the flu shot? I think not.

I feel universal precautions should remain the standard. Sick people shouldnt be tending to people with weak immune systems anyway.

I knew I would be alone in this thought here. But I put it out there because with the already growing shortage of healthcare providers and the growing lack of confidence in these flu shots, Id expect to see more of this as they impliment this fully, and they are.

Im glad I no longer work for a dictating system.

Flu shots are a very nice cushy gimick for big pharm.

Enjoy your flu season. I will stay exempt again this year.

I think it's because you're usually contagious before you even get any symptoms.

I'm not advocating for flu shots for everyone, but it does make sense for health care workers. I worked in a clinic, and we all got shots. Didn't hear of anyone who had a problem with it, unless they were allergic to eggs. Now, apparently that's not a problem. This was years ago.
In a hospital it's more important, as those folks are more vulnerable.

jose balu wrote:I think it's because you're usually contagious before you even get any symptoms.

I'm not advocating for flu shots for everyone, but it does make sense for health care workers. I worked in a clinic, and we all got shots. Didn't hear of anyone who had a problem with it, unless they were allergic to eggs. Now, apparently that's not a problem. This was years ago.
In a hospital it's more important, as those folks are more vulnerable.

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Yep. Chrissie has once again confused a right with a condition of employment. Her Army son has to take a flu shot. Are his rights being infringed...?

jose balu wrote:I think it's because you're usually contagious before you even get any symptoms.

I'm not advocating for flu shots for everyone, but it does make sense for health care workers. I worked in a clinic, and we all got shots. Didn't hear of anyone who had a problem with it, unless they were allergic to eggs. Now, apparently that's not a problem. This was years ago.
In a hospital it's more important, as those folks are more vulnerable.

I understand how people would think like that. it requires blind faith in our system. I had that faith many years ago. But being emersed in it for a long long time now, Ive seen how propaganda and money play into the big picture.

I also speak from personal observation. For the last decade flu shots have been pushed heavily and I would never get one because Im generally a cautious person until ive done my own research. I watched as people would get them and these were the people later calling out sick with the flu. same with my family members. They would get them and every year, they would end up with some version of the flu. i didnt think anything about it for years. i marked it up as a coincidence. Then about 5 years ago when I really noticed that people who got it got sick more, my family members would bring that topic up. I did not encourage them to stop, but some of them choose to stop on their own just to see. and wha la, they have not had the flu either at all, or very very mild sicknesses.

The flu mutates every year, and it can mutate even in between indivdual transfers. Thus this is why the shot never covers all the different strains of flu. Its impossible.

Ive already gone out on a limb so I may as well jump off the mountain. I think by us creating these anttenuated genetically modified flu shots, we are indeed causing the virus itself to mutate at a faster rate and in a unnatural way, therefore causing more harmful and dangerous viruses to be plagued upon us.

Chrissy wrote:

jose balu wrote:I think it's because you're usually contagious before you even get any symptoms.

I'm not advocating for flu shots for everyone, but it does make sense for health care workers. I worked in a clinic, and we all got shots. Didn't hear of anyone who had a problem with it, unless they were allergic to eggs. Now, apparently that's not a problem. This was years ago.
In a hospital it's more important, as those folks are more vulnerable.

I understand how people would think like that. it requires blind faith in our system. I had that faith many years ago. But being emersed in it for a long long time now, Ive seen how propaganda and money play into the big picture.

I also speak from personal observation. For the last decade flu shots have been pushed heavily and I would never get one because Im generally a cautious person until ive done my own research. I watched as people would get them and these were the people later calling out sick with the flu. same with my family members. They would get them and every year, they would end up with some version of the flu. i didnt think anything about it for years. i marked it up as a coincidence. Then about 5 years ago when I really noticed that people who got it got sick more, my family members would bring that topic up. I did not encourage them to stop, but some of them choose to stop on their own just to see. and wha la, they have not had the flu either at all, or very very mild sicknesses.

The flu mutates every year, and it can mutate even in between indivdual transfers. Thus this is why the shot never covers all the different strains of flu. Its impossible.

Ive already gone out on a limb so I may as well jump off the mountain. I think by us creating these anttenuated genetically modified flu shots, we are indeed causing the virus itself to mutate at a faster rate and in a unnatural way, therefore causing more harmful and dangerous viruses to be plagued upon us.

I have never taken the flu shot and have never had he flu. My wife on the other hand gets the shot every year, year in, year out, she also has never gotten the flu. Point being is that health care workers are more susceptible to viruses just because of their work environment. So does the flu shot work or not. In our case it cannot be proven since you could say that it has protected her and in my case I have never had the shot nor the flu.

But to say it is an infringement on personal rights is just plain ludicrous specially in health care workers. I have a friend is an ER nurse at Naval Hospital. In previous years the Navy has allowed them to opt out. This year however, they did not have that option, it was required.

I think by us creating these anttenuated genetically modified flu shots, we are indeed causing the virus itself to mutate at a faster rate and in a unnatural way, therefore causing more harmful and dangerous viruses to be plagued upon us.

Maybe........but I do not think this is an example of big Pharm bullying the science. The flu has multinational reviews of the efficacy of flu shots, and I just think the overall science still favors the flu shot as a means of lowering the probabilities of harm to people from a large pandemic. I have had two flu shots in my life. The first one had me sick for a week. I did not get another for two years, and then I had no problem. I have had many episodes of flu like symptoms in the last five years, but to date no flu......but antedotal accounts is not science. I think I will differ to the world science community who still is recommending the shot.

Ghost_Rider1 wrote:

Chrissy wrote:

jose balu wrote:I think it's because you're usually contagious before you even get any symptoms.

I'm not advocating for flu shots for everyone, but it does make sense for health care workers. I worked in a clinic, and we all got shots. Didn't hear of anyone who had a problem with it, unless they were allergic to eggs. Now, apparently that's not a problem. This was years ago.
In a hospital it's more important, as those folks are more vulnerable.

I understand how people would think like that. it requires blind faith in our system. I had that faith many years ago. But being emersed in it for a long long time now, Ive seen how propaganda and money play into the big picture.

I also speak from personal observation. For the last decade flu shots have been pushed heavily and I would never get one because Im generally a cautious person until ive done my own research. I watched as people would get them and these were the people later calling out sick with the flu. same with my family members. They would get them and every year, they would end up with some version of the flu. i didnt think anything about it for years. i marked it up as a coincidence. Then about 5 years ago when I really noticed that people who got it got sick more, my family members would bring that topic up. I did not encourage them to stop, but some of them choose to stop on their own just to see. and wha la, they have not had the flu either at all, or very very mild sicknesses.

The flu mutates every year, and it can mutate even in between indivdual transfers. Thus this is why the shot never covers all the different strains of flu. Its impossible.

Ive already gone out on a limb so I may as well jump off the mountain. I think by us creating these anttenuated genetically modified flu shots, we are indeed causing the virus itself to mutate at a faster rate and in a unnatural way, therefore causing more harmful and dangerous viruses to be plagued upon us.

I have never taken the flu shot and have never had he flu. My wife on the other hand gets the shot every year, year in, year out, she also has never gotten the flu. Point being is that health care workers are more susceptible to viruses just because of their work environment. So does the flu shot work or not. In our case it cannot be proven since you could say that it has protected her and in my case I have never had the shot nor the flu.

But to say it is an infringement on personal rights is just plain ludicrous specially in health care workers. I have a friend is an ER nurse at Naval Hospital. In previous years the Navy has allowed them to opt out. This year however, they did not have that option, it was required.

Fair enough. So why in previous years do you think people were allowed to opt out? Becuase they already had a standard in place to protect people. Did your freind opt out before? Im curious.

How can you think its unfair if we think the flu vaccine is harmful to us that we have to take it, it hasnt been proven to help. Show me where it has been proven to help other than bias big pharm paid for papers.

Its a false sense of security thats making the big pharm rich is what it is. And it screws around with our immune systems via an altered viron with genetic material being injected into our blood stream. Some people take that seriously and some people have blind faith. I understand that.

Why dont you take the flu shot? arnt you worried you get this new scary flu thats killing all these people in the news this year?

2seaoat wrote: I think by us creating these anttenuated genetically modified flu shots, we are indeed causing the virus itself to mutate at a faster rate and in a unnatural way, therefore causing more harmful and dangerous viruses to be plagued upon us.

Maybe........but I do not think this is an example of big Pharm bullying the science. The flu has multinational reviews of the efficacy of flu shots, and I just think the overall science still favors the flu shot as a means of lowering the probabilities of harm to people from a large pandemic. I have had two flu shots in my life. The first one had me sick for a week. I did not get another for two years, and then I had no problem. I have had many episodes of flu like symptoms in the last five years, but to date no flu......but antedotal accounts is not science. I think I will differ to the world science community who still is recommending the shot.

Youre over due for a flu shot then. You really need one, your sickly. are you not worried about the new flu strains going around? havnt you heard, flu season came early this year. Like a early Christmas. Dont you wnat your present?

Youre over due for a flu shot then.

My doctors after the lung was removed in 2008 were very insistent that I take a yearly flu shot. Since the spread to the liver.....well the Northwestern team has not made that recommendation.....I figure it really does not matter one way or the other.

2seaoat wrote:Youre over due for a flu shot then.

My doctors after the lung was removed in 2008 were very insistent that I take a yearly flu shot. Since the spread to the liver.....well the Northwestern team has not made that recommendation.....I figure it really does not matter one way or the other.

Why not?

You seem like you dont understand the urgency of the flu shot. especially having a lung removed. Youd think you would want to protect whats left.

Do you have some reservations seaoat and just dont want to say you do?

So why in previous years do you think people were allowed to opt out?
I really have no idea why the were allowed to opt out. If they already had a plan in place, why all of a sudden change it?

Did your freind opt out before? Im curious.
No she always took the shot.

How can you think its unfair if we think the flu vaccine is harmful to us that we have to take it, it hasnt been proven to help.
You and other health care workers are placing others at risk. Some of the folks that you come in contact have a very fragile immune system in the first place.

Why dont you take the flu shot? arnt you worried you get this new scary flu thats killing all these people in the news this year?[/quote]

I do not take it because it is a personal choice that I make. Am I scared of it, Hell no not in the least. If I get the flu I get it, it is what it is and I cannot change it in any shape, form or fashion.

Do you have some reservations seaoat and just dont want to say you do?


Actually no reservations at all.....however when I make the decision to get the shot, I always get it in Mid November......it is now getting on Mid January and I am told that some of the immunity carries over and I will probably get one next November. I would have immediately got the shot this year if the doctor recommended the same, but he has some other concerns right now.

I have never had a flu shot. I also remember the Swine Flu scare in 1976.

As far as hospitalized patients...it is my opinion MRSA is more detrimental to a patients well being than the possibility of the flu.

Joanimaroni wrote:I have never had a flu shot. I also remember the Swine Flu scare in 1976.

As far as hospitalized patients...it is my opinion MRSA is more detrimental to a patients well being than the possibility of the flu.

What do you think about the flu shot being a job requirement for health care workers?

And maybe PB will log in and post her opinion. I'm curious to know the opinions of all of our health care members.

Joanimaroni wrote:I have never had a flu shot. I also remember the Swine Flu scare in 1976.

As far as hospitalized patients...it is my opinion MRSA is more detrimental to a patients well being than the possibility of the flu.

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No doubt. They take a lot of extra measures dealing w/ MRSA attempting to inhibit it's spreading. Constant gown and glove, etc.


If you were still employed as a RN, and they said you had to take the shot, what would you do....?

M has to take the flu shot...our PCP recommends it. I don't take it and have not done so in 25 yrs.

Nekochan wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:I have never had a flu shot. I also remember the Swine Flu scare in 1976.

As far as hospitalized patients...it is my opinion MRSA is more detrimental to a patients well being than the possibility of the flu.

What do you think about the flu shot being a job requirement for health care workers?

And maybe PB will log in and post her opinion. I'm curious to know the opinions of all of our health care members.

I would look seriously as to whether I wanted to keep my job or refuse the Flu shot. If they are going to make mandatory requirements, to me there are other vaccines that are more important... Hepatitis B, MMR, and immunizations.

Joanimaroni wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:I have never had a flu shot. I also remember the Swine Flu scare in 1976.

As far as hospitalized patients...it is my opinion MRSA is more detrimental to a patients well being than the possibility of the flu.

What do you think about the flu shot being a job requirement for health care workers?

And maybe PB will log in and post her opinion. I'm curious to know the opinions of all of our health care members.

I would look seriously as to whether I wanted to keep my job or refuse the Flu shot. If they are going to make mandatory requirements, to me there are other vaccines that are more important... Hepatitis B, MMR, and immunizations.

That's a good point.

yeah, people rarely catch the flu from us, they usually give it to us. I bet it usually those people that got the vaccine who get it too.

http://www.ehagroup.com/epidemiology/nosocomial-infections/

There really is no data to prove or say that people are getting viruses from hospital workers.

If there was, perhaps I would change my stance on it.

But to my knowledge, I dont see it and think its an unfair practice against healthcare workers rights to protect themselves and thier bodies from false invasive money making science.

W_T_M wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:I have never had a flu shot. I also remember the Swine Flu scare in 1976.

As far as hospitalized patients...it is my opinion MRSA is more detrimental to a patients well being than the possibility of the flu.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

No doubt. They take a lot of extra measures dealing w/ MRSA attempting to inhibit it's spreading. Constant gown and glove, etc.


If you were still employed as a RN, and they said you had to take the shot, what would you do....?

M has to take the flu shot...our PCP recommends it. I don't take it and have not done so in 25 yrs.

Anyone with a sever compromise of the auto-immune system should receive the vaccine.

I don't know if I would take the vaccine or not. The swine flu vaccine...while not mandatory was pushed very hard for health care workers and if we declined the vaccine we had to sign a refusal form I did not take it....I'm glad I didn't.

Joanimaroni wrote:

W_T_M wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:I have never had a flu shot. I also remember the Swine Flu scare in 1976.

As far as hospitalized patients...it is my opinion MRSA is more detrimental to a patients well being than the possibility of the flu.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

No doubt. They take a lot of extra measures dealing w/ MRSA attempting to inhibit it's spreading. Constant gown and glove, etc.


If you were still employed as a RN, and they said you had to take the shot, what would you do....?

M has to take the flu shot...our PCP recommends it. I don't take it and have not done so in 25 yrs.

Anyone with a sever compromise of the auto-immune system should receive the vaccine.

I don't know if I would take the vaccine or not. The swine flu vaccine...while not mandatory was pushed very hard for health care workers and if we declined the vaccine we had to sign a refusal form I did not take it....I'm glad I didn't.

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I believe they are still allowing refusal forms at some facilities.

I'm in that group...didn't take it...glad I haven't yet.

Joanimaroni wrote: have never had a flu shot. I also remember the Swine Flu scare in 1976.

As far as hospitalized patients...it is my opinion MRSA is more detrimental to a patients well being than the possibility of the flu.

[/quote]

I did, and I got sooooo sick. I ran a fever of 104 degrees the very next day. That's dangerous in an adult. I was in nursing school at the time, and you're so right, they pushed it on all of us.

In about 2003, I tried another flu shot. Once again, I got sick within 24 hours, and I was sick for three weeks with fatigue, severe wheezing and pulmonary infiltrates. I missed a good bit of work, too.

When the day comes they require us to have flu shots, I, too will have to consider whether I really need the job that badly. I think health care workers have a much higher risk of contracting the flu from patients than patients do contracting it from us. Oddly enough, I've never had a severe flu myself since that case in 2003, although I think I've had pertussis a couple of times. I did take a pertussis vaccine last year, since I have a history of pertussis (whooping cough) as a child, and I've not had any problems since.

I have often wondered if I am simply allergic to eggs, even though eating an egg or two doesn't seem to bother me.