Ex-Burglars Say Newspaper’s Gun Map Would’ve Made the Job Easier, Safer

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/04/ex-burglars-say-newspapers-gun-map-wouldve-made-job-easier-safer/

“That was the most asinine article I’ve ever seen,” said Walter T. Shaw, 65, a former burglar and jewel thief who the FBI blames for more than 3,000 break-ins that netted some $70 million in the 1960s and 1970s. “Having a list of who has a gun is like gold - why rob that house when you can hit the one next door, where there are no guns?


If you were a pro burglar you could already easily access this information, if you were a neighborhood kid who commits a burglary on the spur of the moment, you can bet they are not that smart to make a FOIA request, nor I doubt they read the paper.....so exactly what is the point? Is the uncertainty of a gun in a house a deterrent when nobody is home? Even a dumb kid burglar knows when to do the dirty deed. The logic of this article is stunning in its ignorance of the crime of burglary. Now robbery....that is another discussion altogether, but that would take someone with the intelligence to distinguish the two terms and the article is playing to folks who do not know the difference.

The logic behind this article is sound, I realize it completely eludes you but that was expected. What this stunt does is give the criminals an advantage. Whether a criminal is committing burglary or robbery it still gives them an edge. If a criminal is committing burglary he wants to avoid confrontation, all he wants is to get in and get out with his loot so if Mr burglar has a list of who is armed and who is not he more than likely will choose to burglarize unarmed homes so if he does find someone present he will at least know he will not get shot unless said burglar is looking to steal guns now he has a shopping list, he can case a location, learn the schedules and habits of the occupants then figure out the best time to enter the home and find the guns. What this does is it assist criminals in committing crimes and puts legally registered firearms in the hands of criminals (didn't you want a registration system like this?)

Now lets take Mr robber, he doesn't care because odds are since he is committing robbery he himself will be armed, kind of makes it easier to force and threaten people when your packing ya know. So this list makes it easy for him to pick targets to rob, now he knows what homes are unarmed so his job just got a whole lot easier, pick a house that is unarmed, knock on the door, force your way in brandishing your firearm, take what you want then leave or just wait until someone leaves there home then commit the burglary but hey john home maker comes home and catches Mr robber so now the crime escalated to robbery since Mr robber has a firearm and john home maker does not.

The average criminal isn't smart enough to figure out how to file a FOIA request but they damn sure talk and they damn sure read the papers. This article is an excellent example of why registration is a bad idea, of course New York is already in violation of FOPA by having a registration database.

"While some burglars may use the newspaper’s information to avoid guns, Portenier said others will target homes with guns. The newspaper’s decision could even lead to legally-owned guns proliferating on the street, he said."

The publication was a Gannet publication. No self respecting criminal would rely on one word, or a map published by the same.......but you know that already, so I guess this is simply an attempt to make registration into a sinister first step for having bad guys visit your home.....I used to shoot the shotgun along the long driveway leading to the house.....left shotgun shells all over.....go ahead and put my house in the paper.....paranoia. I personally do not give a rat's tail that someone knows I have guns.....silly exercise in Rambo fantasy.

2seaoat wrote:“That was the most asinine article I’ve ever seen,” said Walter T. Shaw, 65, a former burglar and jewel thief who the FBI blames for more than 3,000 break-ins that netted some $70 million in the 1960s and 1970s. “Having a list of who has a gun is like gold - why rob that house when you can hit the one next door, where there are no guns?


If you were a pro burglar you could already easily access this information, if you were a neighborhood kid who commits a burglary on the spur of the moment, you can bet they are not that smart to make a FOIA request, nor I doubt they read the paper.....so exactly what is the point? Is the uncertainty of a gun in a house a deterrent when nobody is home? Even a dumb kid burglar knows when to do the dirty deed. The logic of this article is stunning in its ignorance of the crime of burglary. Now robbery....that is another discussion altogether, but that would take someone with the intelligence to distinguish the two terms and the article is playing to folks who do not know the difference.

Ah, poor 2seaoat, spouting off without having done one iota of research.

In 2008 Memphis Tennessee published only the names and Zip Codes or owners or registered guns. NOT an interactive map showing name address and pinpointing the location.

Two years later, two researchers Alessandro Acquisti and Catherine Tucker, who had no dog in the fight simply looked at the resulting statistics 8/27/10

“…crimes more likely to be affected knowledge of gun ownership—such as burglaries—increased more significantly, after the database was publicized, in zip codes with fewer gun permits…”
http://www.heinz.cmu.edu/~acquisti/papers/acquisti-REV.pdf

2seaoat says the information is available under the FOI act. Suppose 2seaoat files a request for handgun owners is these 10 zip code areas. Burglaries statistically incease in homes without guns in those areas. Do you NOT believe that it will only be a short time before a couple of detectives come knocking on the door of 2seaoat? Curious about 2seaoats request and the increase in crime?

I'm curious if a resident of one of the houses with the sign posted below is broken into, the owner raped and murdered and information comes out that they targeted the house because of the article. I doubt the newspaper would have any liability but the public relations fiasco would be massive. Like most newspapers, Gannett is struggling to keep their doors open.

Like Ann Coulter said, why not publish the names of all women who have had an abortion?

2seaoat wrote:The publication was a Gannet publication. No self respecting criminal would rely on one word, or a map published by the same.......but you know that already, so I guess this is simply an attempt to make registration into a sinister first step for having bad guys visit your home.....I used to shoot the shotgun along the long driveway leading to the house.....left shotgun shells all over.....go ahead and put my house in the paper.....paranoia. I personally do not give a rat's tail that someone knows I have guns.....silly exercise in Rambo fantasy.

With shotgun shells littering your driveway sounds like you already got the whole Rambo fantasy going on. Criminals don't give a shit if it is a Gannet publication or al jazeera, they got a gift from the progressive shitheads that did all the legwork in obtaining the info then being stupid enough to publish it and you think they won't use that to their benefit. You really are naive.

This article is just one reason why registration is bad and sinister but since it is a slap in your face and clashes with what you have drilled into your head you flat out must do what ever you can to nullify and ignore it.

I have two friends who make guns. One here and one in Vermont.
They don't register anything they sell and I have a few of their guns. How will anyone find them besides me? Public records are really useless when it comes to guns.

Ghandi wrote:I have two friends who make guns. One here and one in Vermont.
They don't register anything they sell and I have a few of their guns. How will anyone find them besides me? Public records are really useless when it comes to guns.

More criminal behavior. I bet your not a retired Navy Chief at all but really an ex-con. And you talk about black people?

Mr. Markle.....your stats are useless. The most important thing in home security is an dynamic security system with redundancy and video. I agree with Ghandi......you have to be a Fricking fool to think anything published in the paper is going to guarantee information......I guess I have spent too much times with burglars to find this conversation amusing....I do think Mr. Ghandi is the only person who got this right.

Dreamsglore wrote:

Ghandi wrote:I have two friends who make guns. One here and one in Vermont.
They don't register anything they sell and I have a few of their guns. How will anyone find them besides me? Public records are really useless when it comes to guns.

More criminal behavior. I bet your not a retired Navy Chief at all but really an ex-con. And you talk about black people?

You're the only one who talked about black people on this thread.
You really ain't very bright, are you?

alecto wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/04/ex-burglars-say-newspapers-gun-map-wouldve-made-job-easier-safer/

Good thing in Florida to publish the addresses of law enforcement officers is a crime...Watched an interview with the Sheriff from a Long Island county that has several officers under his command that have been affected since the release of the 'map'...Correction...probation officers and others are now in fear for the safety of their families because this information has been given to the criminals and now their threats of 'we know where you and you family lives' may actually be credible...Once again liberal logic...expose the names of the individuals that protect society in order to promote a poilitcal agaenda without consideration of many innocents that may be involved...

Results ain't their bag maaan... the key is showing the other progressives that they are even more enlightened/progressive.

If you don't buy into it... that simply means that you aren't smart enough to make your own decisions.

My daughter goes after gang bangers everyday as an assistant States Attorney. She has suffered innuendo, glares, and the whole intimidation which comes with the territory. She will run into people who she has put their brother, son, or spouse in jail at the grocery store. The incredible logic that the only thing which makes her safe is that the bad guys are simply as dumb as door knobs.......gee....they are not. Anybody in America with about three minutes can locate another person who has not been living with an alias or witness protection coverage. This idea that publishing an address increases the possibility of someone magically finding the key information to where a person is.....well.....I suppose where someone is facing intellectual challenges and there is a spur of the moment reaction to the newspaper, but in most situations they know how to find people. This is silliness.

Some enterprising folks thought it would be fair to research and publish the names of the reporter and editors associated with the release of gun permit holders via an interactive map - give em a call!

Dwight R Worley
23006 139 Ave
Springfield Gardens, NY 11413

But you might want to call him first to let him know you�ll be dropping in: (718) 527-0832

and here are the rest of the red diaper doper babies at
The Journal:

Journal News President:
---Janet Hasson, 3 Gate House Lane Mamaroneck, NY 10534 (914) 694.5204

Editors:
---Cyndee Royle, 1133 Westchester Ave., Suite N110, White Plains, NY 10604, 914-694-9300
--Nancy Cutler 9 Woodwind Ln, Spring Valley, NY. (845) 354 3485

Parent company of The Journal News Gannett
-----CEO Gracia C Martore 728 Springvale Rd Great Falls, VA 22066 (703) 759 5954

The reporter on the story is:
--Dwight R Worley 23006 139 Ave Springfield Gardens, NY 11413 (718) 527 0832

Once again liberal logic...expose the names of the individuals that protect society in order to promote a poilitcal agaenda without consideration of many innocents that may be involved...

It is not "liberal" logic which puts folks addresses in the paper. Other examples deal with maps of sexual predators, and other "potential" dangers so people can be aware. It would make no more sense for me to post that doing the same is "reactionary". Propaganda uses subtle word associations which are simply that......but the truth is that an innocent mother, father, or sibling of a convicted sexual predator could argue the same logic that they are at risk, yet the community finds the need to know more important than some more remote possibility of harm to innocent third parties.

the key is showing the other progressives that they are even more enlightened/progressive.

If you don't buy into it... that simply means that you aren't smart enough to make your own decisions.

Again, the word "progressive" is being used in such a way as to create a negative connotation by propaganda techniques which are elementary and incorrect. The very same conclusion could be reached if you inserted the word "reactionary"....it explains nothing, and only serves to create misinformation on the issue.

alecto wrote:The logic behind this article is sound, I realize it completely eludes you but that was expected. What this stunt does is give the criminals an advantage. Whether a criminal is committing burglary or robbery it still gives them an edge. If a criminal is committing burglary he wants to avoid confrontation, all he wants is to get in and get out with his loot so if Mr burglar has a list of who is armed and who is not he more than likely will choose to burglarize unarmed homes so if he does find someone present he will at least know he will not get shot unless said burglar is looking to steal guns now he has a shopping list, he can case a location, learn the schedules and habits of the occupants then figure out the best time to enter the home and find the guns. What this does is it assist criminals in committing crimes and puts legally registered firearms in the hands of criminals (didn't you want a registration system like this?)

So, basically, you're saying that guns don't really reduce crime, they just displace it. Is that right? Guns don't really provide any positive externality as we have been told by the NRA?

2seaoat wrote:My daughter goes after gang bangers everyday as an assistant States Attorney. She has suffered innuendo, glares, and the whole intimidation which comes with the territory. She will run into people who she has put their brother, son, or spouse in jail at the grocery store. The incredible logic that the only thing which makes her safe is that the bad guys are simply as dumb as door knobs.......gee....they are not. Anybody in America with about three minutes can locate another person who has not been living with an alias or witness protection coverage. This idea that publishing an address increases the possibility of someone magically finding the key information to where a person is.....well.....I suppose where someone is facing intellectual challenges and there is a spur of the moment reaction to the newspaper, but in most situations they know how to find people. This is silliness.

Thankful there are dedicated professionals like your daughter that have dedicated themselves to making society safer from the criminal elemement...All members at every level of law enforcement understand what comes with the territory in their respective areas but to publish adresses/locations or to do anything with may make it easier to know the private residences is unacceptable and has the potential to endanger the lives of those that are not in this line of work...If this is an example of how some liberals are going to attack the violence problems then in reality the publisher of this information no matter how well intentioned is responsible should anything happen to the innocents as well as anyone in the law enforcement community...It's strange that this practice could even be defended in the first place when some of these same liberals object to the publication of sex offender web sites because it could be dangerous to the freakin offender!...Explain the hypocrisy...

[quote="nochain"]Some enterprising folks thought it would be fair to research and publish the names of the reporter and editors associated with the release of gun permit holders via an interactive map - give em a call!

....................................................................

Why don't you post YOUR name,address, and phone number you POS....?

Come on you coward....come out from behind the 'puter screen and man up.

I hope Boards does the right thing and bans your sorry ass.

That is why the term "reactionary", "liberal", or "progressive" are simple conclusions without a nexus to the underlying issue. The issue is should in a free society the press be restricted from conveying some information. We commonly show where candidates live within their districts. We show sexual predators on GIS maps. We show murder and crime locations. We talked about how great this was in Escambia County to convey information to citizens. Even in that situation, you will hear realtors, or homeowners argue that "______" fill in the blank of what propaganda descriptive word you want is giving information which is harmful. A free press is intrusive, but you were all for the publication of crime locations locally a few years ago.....and now publication of readily available information somehow now becomes liberal or reactionary. This is a tempest in a teapot.

2seaoat wrote:That is why the term "reactionary", "liberal", or "progressive" are simple conclusions without a nexus to the underlying issue. The issue is should in a free society the press be restricted from conveying some information. We commonly show where candidates live within their districts. We show sexual predators on GIS maps. We show murder and crime locations. We talked about how great this was in Escambia County to convey information to citizens. Even in that situation, you will hear realtors, or homeowners argue that "______" fill in the blank of what propaganda descriptive word you want is giving information which is harmful. A free press is intrusive, but you were all for the publication of crime locations locally a few years ago.....and now publication of readily available information somehow now becomes liberal or reactionary. This is a tempest in a teapot.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

They're armed, and they're scared, which is why they're armed.

All of those instances you sited are warm fuzzies to the militia mentality...they want to know everything about everyone around them, while seeking to remain in total anon status. And they LOVE to post or publish that info to intimidate folk.

It's terrorism, plain and simple.

[quote="W_T_M"]

nochain wrote:Some enterprising folks thought it would be fair to research and publish the names of the reporter and editors associated with the release of gun permit holders via an interactive map - give em a call!

....................................................................

Why don't you post YOUR name,address, and phone number you POS....?

Come on you coward....come out from behind the 'puter screen and man up.

I hope Boards does the right thing and bans your sorry ass.

The concept of illustrating hypocrisy and the lack of common sense certainly escapes you...but you are certainly in lock step with the liberal philosophy of calling for a different point of view to be banned simply because of disagreement and/or the inability to discuss with intelligence

[quote="newswatcher"]

W_T_M wrote:

nochain wrote:Some enterprising folks thought it would be fair to research and publish the names of the reporter and editors associated with the release of gun permit holders via an interactive map - give em a call!

....................................................................

Why don't you post YOUR name,address, and phone number you POS....?

Come on you coward....come out from behind the 'puter screen and man up.

I hope Boards does the right thing and bans your sorry ass.

The concept of illustrating hypocrisy and the lack of common sense certainly escapes you...but you are certainly in lock step with the liberal philosophy of calling for a different point of view to be banned simply because of disagreement and/or the inability to discuss with intelligence

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Fuck you. Give me YOUR info and I'll post it all over Hell's half acre you POS hypocrite.

[quote="W_T_M"]

nochain wrote:Some enterprising folks thought it would be fair to research and publish the names of the reporter and editors associated with the release of gun permit holders via an interactive map - give em a call!

....................................................................

Why don't you post YOUR name,address, and phone number you POS....?

Come on you coward....come out from behind the 'puter screen and man up.

I hope Boards does the right thing and bans your sorry ass.

Shut up idiot....

[quote="W_T_M"]

newswatcher wrote:

W_T_M wrote:

nochain wrote:Some enterprising folks thought it would be fair to research and publish the names of the reporter and editors associated with the release of gun permit holders via an interactive map - give em a call!

....................................................................

Why don't you post YOUR name,address, and phone number you POS....?

Come on you coward....come out from behind the 'puter screen and man up.

I hope Boards does the right thing and bans your sorry ass.

The concept of illustrating hypocrisy and the lack of common sense certainly escapes you...but you are certainly in lock step with the liberal philosophy of calling for a different point of view to be banned simply because of disagreement and/or the inability to discuss with intelligence

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Fuck you. Give me YOUR info and I'll post it all over Hell's half acre you POS hypocrite.

Thanks for confirming exactly what was posted...

[quote="newswatcher"]

W_T_M wrote:

newswatcher wrote:

W_T_M wrote:

nochain wrote:Some enterprising folks thought it would be fair to research and publish the names of the reporter and editors associated with the release of gun permit holders via an interactive map - give em a call!

....................................................................

Why don't you post YOUR name,address, and phone number you POS....?

Come on you coward....come out from behind the 'puter screen and man up.

I hope Boards does the right thing and bans your sorry ass.

The concept of illustrating hypocrisy and the lack of common sense certainly escapes you...but you are certainly in lock step with the liberal philosophy of calling for a different point of view to be banned simply because of disagreement and/or the inability to discuss with intelligence

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Fuck you. Give me YOUR info and I'll post it all over Hell's half acre you POS hypocrite.

Thanks for confirming exactly what was posted...

Pay no attention to the White Trash Man behind the curtain.