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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » obama's true agenda emerges.

obama's true agenda emerges.

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polecat
ZVUGKTUBM
Sal
Joanimaroni
Floridatexan
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O'Reilly has lost one third of his audience due to his propaganda.

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You're right not enough was cut this time around.

The bill, which averts a looming fiscal cliff that had threatened to plunge the nation back into recession, also extends expiring jobless benefits, prevents cuts in Medicare reimbursements to doctors and delays for two months billions of dollars in across-the-board spending cuts in defense and domestic programs.

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Sal wrote:

There are also $2.50 in spending cuts for every $1 in new revenue.[/font]

You LIE! There are NO cuts.

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bigt wrote:You're right not enough was cut this time around.

The bill, which averts a looming fiscal cliff that had threatened to plunge the nation back into recession, also extends expiring jobless benefits, prevents cuts in Medicare reimbursements to doctors and delays for two months billions of dollars in across-the-board spending cuts in defense and domestic programs.

The military is going to take it hard because of the decision as there will be 53-67 BILLION cut out of the budget for the remainder of the fiscal year which began in October. Thanks Obama and Congress.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Chrissy wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:As to the rape of the wealthy, let's all take up a collection shall we? You wingers have got to be kidding! Talk about re-distrubution of wealth! It has been going from the low and middle income folks UP thanks to all the loopholes in the tax code, off shore accounts and other tricks us poor folk don't even know about.

After you look at this chart how can you say the wealthy have not been doing just fine and dandy? What a crock. I mean your comments are not taking financial reality into account. How can you feel sorry for them?

Please also keep in mind that all this while worker productivity has been going up so people are working harder for less. The whole tax code needs to be revamped.

obama's true agenda emerges. - Page 2 Econom11

Now the question you need to ask yourself is, did this bill do anything to change that really?

people are working harder because they want thier job and bussinesses have cut back. Expect more of that too.

All of yall do nothing but focus on the tax code, what about spending cuts?
My post wasn't about the recent agreement. It was merely pointing out that for crying out loud the well off have been doing extremely well for the past 30 years due to an array of factors. On top of that they have become masters at manipulating the legislation re the tax code so that they get many special favors or avoid taxes altogether by moving money to accounts off shore while the rest of us sit here like ducks in a barrel trying to keep our heads above water.

When talk of cuts comes up the Republicans like to take aim at groups who are ill equipped to lobby congress. Politics is so rigged and yet unbelievably there are those who continue to be cheerleaders for the powerful and wealthy. Talk about being brainwashed!

We are turning into a Banana Republic.

The workers are being squeezed in the global market (yeah for the market). People are working harder but not getting paid a living wage. Somehow you think that's great?
obama's true agenda emerges. - Page 2 Change11

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Here's another example of the problem.

Your team is the one on top. Go Team, Beat Everyone, you need more.



obama's true agenda emerges. - Page 2 The-sh10

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

obama's true agenda emerges. - Page 2 The-me10

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-charts-about-inequality-2011-11?op=1


If this looks good to you then by all means carry on but if this represents something less than desirable then what are your suggestions for fixing it? Do we just keep going in this direction? Why?

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Chrissy wrote:
PBulldog2 wrote:
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:

I guess my father did my three sibblings and I a great favor by passing away this past December 15th. His estate (worth way less than $5 million, BTW) will be divided without taxation.

I'm sorry about your Dad's passing, Z.

Oh gosh im a horrible person. How could I not see that.

I am so sorry Z. I know what its like to loose a parent during the holidays. My mother got sick christmas and died at home Jan 1st 6 years ago.

My heart goes out to you..

Blessings for you Z I love you

Oh, thanks, Chrissy, and y'all. Dad was 85 years old and lived a good life. He was very sick the past three years. He lived in Fresno, CA, around the corner from my younger sister. She looked after him the last 4 years or so. All four of us have nothing but pleasant memories of our father. Mom passed in 1996. We were lucky to have been raised in a two-parent family, with parents who were very selfless and caring. They set the bar high, and I have tried to reach for it in my own parenting along the way.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

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http://heist-themovie.com/index.html

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othershoe1030 wrote:obama's true agenda emerges. - Page 2 The-me10

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-charts-about-inequality-2011-11?op=1


If this looks good to you then by all means carry on but if this represents something less than desirable then what are your suggestions for fixing it? Do we just keep going in this direction? Why?

I had a very long reply to this and my finger effed it all up. No

So here's my short answer.

What to do about that chart? Nothing we are the new european states of America just as planned.

And both parties worked to get us here.

Id like to point out the obvious about something. because you would have to beleive obama is not a good leader if you thought the republicans have stonwalled him at getting what he wanted. He is very good and has gotten everything he has wanted. He has finished this country's American exceptualism off. His vision has always been of america as just one state in a global community.

Most bussinesses and middle class never trusted him, which led to people holding onto thier pocket books and biz doing more with less people out of a lack of confidence knowing his goals are anti growth redistribution.

He bows to leaders of the world letting them know America is now a global state.

and back to the chart. Lets go back to 2010 with obamacare and dodd-frank. These two large regualtory policies alone tell us what the vision is for us. Its a enviroment where large monopoly companies suceed having the backing of too big to fail tax payer promises behind them. I would expect many small biznezes to dry up and larger ones to absorb them.

Im afraid the America I grew up in is gone, this is the new global one world America now. look around, the whole world is thrilled the big bad rich Americans are poor like us, American exceptualism gone. All of it has been created on purpose.

Becoming like europe, killing American exceptualism was and has always been the "Change".

Expect more to come. We still have gun laws to make like europe. And some other things in that pesky constitution that need to be re-written.

These are my thoughts on it, take it for what its worth. not much im sure here or anywhere else. But you ask. Because not muh on that chart is going to improve. You cant regulate, redistribute idealogy. So we will limp along into our new place in the global community, a more equal poorer America.

Sal

Sal

Chrissy wrote:

I had a very long reply to this and my finger effed it all up. No

So here's my short answer.

What to do about that chart? Nothing we are the new european states of America just as planned.

And both parties worked to get us here.

Id like to point out the obvious about something. because you would have to beleive obama is not a good leader if you thought the republicans have stonwalled him at getting what he wanted. He is very good and has gotten everything he has wanted. He has finished this country's American exceptualism off. His vision has always been of america as just one state in a global community.

Most bussinesses and middle class never trusted him, which led to people holding onto thier pocket books and biz doing more with less people out of a lack of confidence knowing his goals are anti growth redistribution.

He bows to leaders of the world letting them know America is now a global state.

and back to the chart. Lets go back to 2010 with obamacare and dodd-frank. These two large regualtory policies alone tell us what the vision is for us. Its a enviroment where large monopoly companies suceed having the backing of too big to fail tax payer promises behind them. I would expect many small biznezes to dry up and larger ones to absorb them.

Im afraid the America I grew up in is gone, this is the new global one world America now. look around, the whole world is thrilled the big bad rich Americans are poor like us, American exceptualism gone. All of it has been created on purpose.

Becoming like europe, killing American exceptualism was and has always been the "Change".

Expect more to come. We still have gun laws to make like europe. And some other things in that pesky constitution that need to be re-written.

These are my thoughts on it, take it for what its worth. not much im sure here or anywhere else. But you ask. Because not muh on that chart is going to improve. You cant regulate, redistribute idealogy. So we will limp along into our new place in the global community, a more equal poorer America.

The current economic and political system is broken and unsustainable. Globalization creates downward pressure on labor, which pushes wealth upward and depresses wages, which forces policymakers to incentivize asset growth over wage growth while decreasing the cost of goods and increasing consumer debt. This in turn becomes impractical and creates wobbly, crash-prone economies as middle-classes disappear. Birth rates decline due to lack of economic opportunity and insanely long periods of educational indenture for young people, which causes developed economies to turn to immigration for demographic balance, which causes social unrest. Nation-states are powerless to stop multinational corporations from blackmailing them over "jobs" and buying their governments, and struggle to find coherent ways to deal non-state-actor crises such as international terrorism and climate change. Meanwhile, ecological and crises are abundant, guaranteeing a slowing of economic growth absent some significant paradigm shift.

The answer to all of this in wingnut circles seems to be for policy makers and their wealthy, comfortable friends to put their heads in the sand and hope it will all work out for the best if we just keep the current system hobbling along for a few more years. They see a looming fiscal crisis, realize it would be a lot more work to try to tax the rich to resolve it rather than take the complex and proactive steps necessary to deal with it, and simply decide to enact austerity measures through broader tax increases and dumb spending cuts.

Breaking this mold is going to require some revolutionary and proactive thinking about what a sustainable economy for the 21st century would look like.

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[quote="Sal"]
Chrissy wrote:They see a looming fiscal crisis, realize it would be a lot more work to try to tax the rich to resolve it rather than take the complex and proactive steps necessary to deal with it, and simply decide to enact austerity measures through broader tax increases and dumb spending cuts.

Breaking this mold is going to require some revolutionary and proactive thinking about what a sustainable economy for the 21st century would look like.[/font]

How is "taxing the rich" going to make the issue disappear? Tax them all at 100% and that will not even be close to enough revenue. But you libertards refuse to negotiate on entitlements since that is what funds your prime voter base. Hypocrite.

obama's true agenda emerges. - Page 2 Liberal-hypocrites-hypocrites-politics-1348826822

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

nochain wrote:

How is "taxing the rich" going to make the issue disappear? Tax them all at 100% and that will not even be close to enough revenue. But you libertards refuse to negotiate on entitlements since that is what funds your prime voter base. Hypocrite.


The point is, nochain and Chrissy, that our country once had a flourishing middle class. Now we are becoming a banana republic by which I mean we have developed a huge gap between the rich and poor. This is not good for anyone. How are we going to "grow the economy" if there is no one left to buy the products we hope to make?

I'm just pointing out the reality of where we are. I know you guys have an aversion to reality but this is where we are. We are being run by a plutocracy and it is killing the middle class. I guess this is the way you like it?

As for cutting spending we need to look at the military budget with their war machines, some planes going for $130 million each. Then ask how many hospitals, bridges, schools etc. could be built with some of that money.

All you do is call us commies and claim that the President of the United States, Barack Obama (second term now coming up) hates rich people. Calling names and imagining stuff about the president are not solutions.

In this chart the U.S. is fourth from the top ... not a pretty picture.

What exactly do you mean when you say we are becoming more like Europe. I don't think this chart validates that claim.


obama's true agenda emerges. - Page 2 Income10



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othershoe1030 wrote:
nochain wrote:

How is "taxing the rich" going to make the issue disappear? Tax them all at 100% and that will not even be close to enough revenue. But you libertards refuse to negotiate on entitlements since that is what funds your prime voter base. Hypocrite.


The point is, nochain and Chrissy, that our country once had a flourishing middle class. Now we are becoming a banana republic by which I mean we have developed a huge gap between the rich and poor. This is not good for anyone. How are we going to "grow the economy" if there is no one left to buy the products we hope to make?

I'm just pointing out the reality of where we are. I know you guys have an aversion to reality but this is where we are. We are being run by a plutocracy and it is killing the middle class. I guess this is the way you like it?

As for cutting spending we need to look at the military budget with their war machines, some planes going for $130 million each. Then ask how many hospitals, bridges, schools etc. could be built with some of that money.

All you do is call us commies and claim that the President of the United States, Barack Obama (second term now coming up) hates rich people. Calling names and imagining stuff about the president are not solutions.

In this chart the U.S. is fourth from the top ... not a pretty picture.

What exactly do you mean when you say we are becoming more like Europe. I don't think this chart validates that claim.


obama's true agenda emerges. - Page 2 Income10




I'll overlook how you misrepresent my opinions and just state yes, the gap is huge but how is taking money from rich folks and handing it to our "less than parsimonious" government porkers going to help the middle class? BHOs green energy and so-called shovel ready programs were, and are, absolute failures at real job creation yet cost BILLIONS. Another consideration, you ask who will buy products - strip the rich of any incentive to succeed and who will make the products to buy?? Concerning DoD, yes - I have always advocated at the very least cancelling the F-35 program as it is far to expensive and not necessary. I even had an opinion piece published that I sent to Navy Times about that wasteful program. Now let's talk true welfare reform and address the many other free gimme programs that feed the liberal voter base.....

Sal

Sal

nochain wrote:

How is "taxing the rich" going to make the issue disappear? Tax them all at 100% and that will not even be close to enough revenue. But you libertards refuse to negotiate on entitlements since that is what funds your prime voter base. Hypocrite.

Bullshit.

The president has consistently and persistently called for shared sacrifice and a balanced approach to solving our budgetary challenges. He has never suggested that there could be no cuts in Medicare or Social Security benefits anymore than he has suggested that there could be no cuts to NASA or Head Start or the budget of the Commerce Department. What he has said is that he is not going to ask the vulnerable to pay before he asks the most affluent. He has said that he won't let the middle class and the poor shoulder the whole burden on their own. He has said that any cuts must be matched in new revenues coming from people who can most afford to contribute. The principles are based on fairness and balance. Everyone should sacrifice something, but those with the most to give should give the most.

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Sal wrote:
nochain wrote:

How is "taxing the rich" going to make the issue disappear? Tax them all at 100% and that will not even be close to enough revenue. But you libertards refuse to negotiate on entitlements since that is what funds your prime voter base. Hypocrite.

Bullshit.

The president has consistently and persistently called for shared sacrifice and a balanced approach to solving our budgetary challenges. He has never suggested that there could be no cuts in Medicare or Social Security benefits anymore than he has suggested that there could be no cuts to NASA or Head Start or the budget of the Commerce Department. What he has said is that he is not going to ask the vulnerable to pay before he asks the most affluent. He has said that he won't let the middle class and the poor shoulder the whole burden on their own. He has said that any cuts must be matched in new revenues coming from people who can most afford to contribute. The principles are based on fairness and balance. Everyone should sacrifice something, but those with the most to give should give the most.

Now that's funny. Lets see how those teleprompter talking points translate to real action. Given BHOs history it won't mean a thing since he couldn't lead a starving lion to raw meat nor convince Congress to act in the best interest of the country.

Sal

Sal

nochain wrote:

Now that's funny. Lets see how those teleprompter talking points translate to real action. Given BHOs history it won't mean a thing since he couldn't lead a starving lion to raw meat nor convince Congress to act in the best interest of the country.

As always, you are uninformed.

Why don't you trot on over to DailyKos or any other bastion of liberal thought and watch them lighting their hair on fire over how Obama has been rolled, can't negotiate, and has given away the store, and then get back to me.

Seems to me that judging from the histrionics on display on both sides of the aisle, he's striking a remarkable balance.

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http://gbgm-umc.org/Response/articles/corporate_welfare.html

I don't like Any welfare but why in the Hell do you Idiots defend corporate welfare? Are you 1%ers? These sons of bitches are hoarding their cash in Greed.. At least the dollars handed out to the poor goes back into the economy..



Last edited by Lurch on 1/4/2013, 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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othershoe1030 wrote:
nochain wrote:

How is "taxing the rich" going to make the issue disappear? Tax them all at 100% and that will not even be close to enough revenue. But you libertards refuse to negotiate on entitlements since that is what funds your prime voter base. Hypocrite.


The point is, nochain and Chrissy, that our country once had a flourishing middle class. Now we are becoming a banana republic by which I mean we have developed a huge gap between the rich and poor. This is not good for anyone. How are we going to "grow the economy" if there is no one left to buy the products we hope to make?

I'm just pointing out the reality of where we are. I know you guys have an aversion to reality but this is where we are. We are being run by a plutocracy and it is killing the middle class. I guess this is the way you like it?

As for cutting spending we need to look at the military budget with their war machines, some planes going for $130 million each. Then ask how many hospitals, bridges, schools etc. could be built with some of that money.

All you do is call us commies and claim that the President of the United States, Barack Obama (second term now coming up) hates rich people. Calling names and imagining stuff about the president are not solutions.

In this chart the U.S. is fourth from the top ... not a pretty picture.

What exactly do you mean when you say we are becoming more like Europe. I don't think this chart validates that claim.


obama's true agenda emerges. - Page 2 Income10




Shoe. First of all when I call people commies, its not me calling them a name. Its a political stance that I am pointing out. Communism happens to be a form of government, and there are variations of it in the world. So im not calling names.

And another thing, I did not just blame obama. I clearly gave fair share of the blame to all parties involved in my reply to you so it is unfair that you try to say Im just blaming obama and go back to the same old rhetoric. I do feel he was the chosen puppet to finish the job, but it took more to get us here than a couple presidencies.

I dont have time right now to do a comparison on europe, but I will when I get home unless someone else wants to take it on, including you.

And what to do about the growing income spread. Well as another poster pointed out, taking from one to give to another never works. Look at europe please. Thats been thier model for a long time.

I personally dont think we can stop it. Nor do I think our gov wants to stop it. Like I said earlier, those large bills passed tell us all we need to know about what kind of system we can look forward to. And its the haves and have nots.

My opinion is we will limp along trying to avoid the obvious for a decade or so, because Americans just dont change easy. The next generation will be happy with a tiny appartment, a gov phone and internet and gov cheese as long as they can play on facebook and smoke some weed.

All that said. There's something we have to acknowledge about the middle class. Middle class people dont get created without successful companies growing. Many middle class jobs are being outsourced within this country right now to lower paid workers and its going to get worse. We lowered the bar. Its no difference than a 100% growth in PA's instead of doctors treating us, we lowered the bar. With it went pay. Middle class doesnt grow unless the top grows( other than small biz owners, which this climate sucks for). Because the top knows it can use cheap labor if it needs to for most of its positions. Think about it.

Jake92



How is it fair that the taxpayers give give give to the welfare people and illegals that never pay a penny in income taxes as well as the rich who can write everything off on taxes OR move the money to off shore accounts.. I think doing away with the income taxes and having a 15% national sales tax on everything other than PRESCRIBED medications would get everybody paying a share. The more you spend, the more you pay, instead of the middle class paying more than their share for the rich and poor.. The sales tax will include everything made overseas as well as everything made in this country..
WHY is there a gas tax to subsidize the ECAT service instead of raising the
rate for the ones that ride the bus.. The people buying gas are again paying for the ones that get a free or reduced cost ride..

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Jake92 wrote:How is it fair that the taxpayers give give give to the welfare people and illegals that never pay a penny in income taxes as well as the rich who can write everything off on taxes OR move the money to off shore accounts.. I think doing away with the income taxes and having a 15% national sales tax on everything other than PRESCRIBED medications would get everybody paying a share. The more you spend, the more you pay, instead of the middle class paying more than their share for the rich and poor.. The sales tax will include everything made overseas as well as everything made in this country..
WHY is there a gas tax to subsidize the ECAT service instead of raising the
rate for the ones that ride the bus.. The people buying gas are again paying for the ones that get a free or reduced cost ride..

Jake I dont recall you from years ago, but you hit the nail on the head.

Th only thing I would change about your post is tax prescribed medications. This country has the largest pain pill addiction in the world. And do not tax food.

But yes, rich people will reamain rich and poor poeple will still get handouts and the middle class people will get eaten alive one way or the other. Be it food cost skyrocketing, ins premiums going up, housing going up, you name it, the people who are working and trying to do for themselves are the ones who suffer. Its gotten to the point where I even wonder why I try so hard and sacrafice working my life away.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Lurch wrote:http://gbgm-umc.org/Response/articles/corporate_welfare.html

I don't like Any welfare but why in the Hell do you Idiots defend corporate welfare? Are you 1%ers? These sons of bitches are hoarding their cash in Greed.. At least the dollars handed out to the poor goes back into the economy..

That's a good article, Lurch. I have yet to hear any of those who say they "hate welfare" ever be able to defend corporate welfare. If they hate that too they should be screaming about it as loudly as they scream about what they perceive to be welfare to poor people. As the article point out there are time and money limits on welfare to poor people but not to wealthy corporations. In addition to having no limits as the article points out, it also does nothing to encourage the development of renewable energy sources such as solar and wind. I wonder how much of a cinder the planet will have to turn in to before the Bill O'Rielys of the world admit that there is such a thing as global warming and that we are contributing to it? From your article:

Corporate welfare describes financial or other form of government assistance to a corporation provided free or at a below-market rate. Unlike social welfare, it is rarely need-based. Much of U.S. corporate-welfare policy is embedded in the tax code, which supports certain corporate actions over others through tax expenditures, deductions and credits. Unlike budget items, tax expenditures are not approved each year but continue until Congress votes to end them.

The largest corporate-welfare payments go to the wealthiest corporations. These corporations are often among the biggest campaign donors to candidates of both major political parties.

Corporations easily outspend critics in media and lobbying to convince Congress that programs they support have public benefit. While some argue that public benefits justify corporate subsidies, questions arise:

Do we as a society want to devote significant public resources and revenues to the welfare of large U.S. and foreign corporations?
What alternative uses of public resources should be considered?
Why do politicians grant massive subsidies to Canadian mining companies and other foreign corporations doing business in the United States even as they enact anti-immigrant laws?
What kinds of corporate behavior do subsidies encourage?
What long-term consequences and costs does each corporate- welfare payment have?
Answering these questions means looking at specific subsidies to specific corporations. For example, oil corporations argue that drilling on Alaska's public land will lower oil costs to consumers so the government should allow them access to drill. But public subsidies for drilling oil discourage businesses engaged in developing renewable energy sources.

Welfare to oil corporations does not promote conservation, expand mass transit or encourage pollution reduction. Drilling has profound and lasting environmental costs and consequences. The perceived benefit of lower fuel prices is borrowed from our future.

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