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Lets talk about GOV Pensions if we may

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Nekochan
2seaoat
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Dreamsglore wrote:The cut off to get a federal job is 37 years old.

Sorry, but not in the Federal Prison system where I applied for a job. Wrong again as usual. You have to be able to have 20 years of service for a pension by age 55. I guess a person could "buy" years of service or use military time towards the 20 years of working for the feds, but the idea of possibly getting abused, killed, threatened etc didn't appeal to me at all. Had the job at Saufley panned out, well, I'd be 6 years from retirement and not 14.



Last edited by PACEDOG#1 on 10/27/2012, 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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@Rogue

Teachers don't make $9 an hour either, but if they did, how could you expect them to kick back 3% of their income to the state and be able to afford anything more to rent than a used FEMA trailer?

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Rogue wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, if the state workers are required to pay a 3% tax for their retirement benefit but get a 3% increase in pay, WTF? Your thoughts?

seems like they break even and come out on top to me. They are being paid to pay it.

was that what you were asking?

It was just breaking even. We've been 4 years without a raise. I should have eclipsed 50k three years ago, but haven't because they have jacked with the pay scale over and over.

Here is what is even funnier...there is a new performance pay schedule that will be implemented I believe in the 2013-14 school year. Teachers can choose that scale or remain on the one we currently have which will not "guarantee" the larger style pay increases that the state will offer. Teachers choosing the new "performance pay scale" will lose their tenure and be subject to job loss if students do not show adequate gains(of which the state courts just ruled that the formula used to determine student progress is flawed and must be redone). All new hires from this year forward cannot ever gain tenure and will be forever tied to the new pay system.

Now, how can the state offer a premium pay scale for teachers when they cannot even offer raises on the standard scale to the folks already working in the system? Where is this money magically going to come from to pay these performance salaries? Hmmmmm. The cart was set waaaay in front of the horse on this deal. If districts can't get the money to offer pay raises to begin with, where is the money going to come from to pay the idiots choosing to be on the other plan? LOLOLOLOL.

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PACEDOG#1 wrote:@Rogue

Teachers don't make $9 an hour either, but if they did, how could you expect them to kick back 3% of their income to the state and be able to afford anything more to rent than a used FEMA trailer?

I looked up the national average on wages for teachers k-12, seems start out some was $9 a hour.

I am well aware most dont make that. I am well aware as I have said that teachers dont make enough. with that said, what about all the $9 an hour lab assistants who have do deal with poop and piss and vomit and blood every day, they are asked to contribute to thier retirment fund or do without?

im sorry my best apology wasnt good enough for you so Ill geuss we have to go there. Why should federal workers have any special benefits when they are paid by tax payer dollars when the tax payers themselves dont have the same garentees?

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PACEDOG#1 wrote:
It was just breaking even. We've been 4 years without a raise. I should have eclipsed 50k three years ago, but haven't because they have jacked with the pay scale over and over.

Here is what is even funnier...there is a new performance pay schedule that will be implemented I believe in the 2013-14 school year. Teachers can choose that scale or remain on the one we currently have which will not "guarantee" the larger style pay increases that the state will offer. Teachers choosing the new "performance pay scale" will lose their tenure and be subject to job loss if students do not show adequate gains(of which the state courts just ruled that the formula used to determine student progress is flawed and must be redone). All new hires from this year forward cannot ever gain tenure and will be forever tied to the new pay system.

Now, how can the state offer a premium pay scale for teachers when they cannot even offer raises on the standard scale to the folks already working in the system? Where is this money magically going to come from to pay these performance salaries? Hmmmmm. The cart was set waaaay in front of the horse on this deal. If districts can't get the money to offer pay raises to begin with, where is the money going to come from to pay the idiots choosing to be on the other plan? LOLOLOLOL.

PD, please explain to me what is so wrong with performance based pay raises or even job security. I have worked for 2 companies that gave raises and retained employees based on their monthly evaluations. I have a friend that works for Cox Communications and his raises and job security are also based on his performance evals though he has topped out currently in his job, but he still must maintain good evals in order to retain his job. If you do the damn job you were hired to do, you should not have a problem.

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PACEDOG#1 wrote:
Rogue wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, if the state workers are required to pay a 3% tax for their retirement benefit but get a 3% increase in pay, WTF? Your thoughts?

seems like they break even and come out on top to me. They are being paid to pay it.

was that what you were asking?

It was just breaking even. We've been 4 years without a raise. I should have eclipsed 50k three years ago, but haven't because they have jacked with the pay scale over and over.

Here is what is even funnier...there is a new performance pay schedule that will be implemented I believe in the 2013-14 school year. Teachers can choose that scale or remain on the one we currently have which will not "guarantee" the larger style pay increases that the state will offer. Teachers choosing the new "performance pay scale" will lose their tenure and be subject to job loss if students do not show adequate gains(of which the state courts just ruled that the formula used to determine student progress is flawed and must be redone). All new hires from this year forward cannot ever gain tenure and will be forever tied to the new pay system.

Now, how can the state offer a premium pay scale for teachers when they cannot even offer raises on the standard scale to the folks already working in the system? Where is this money magically going to come from to pay these performance salaries? Hmmmmm. The cart was set waaaay in front of the horse on this deal. If districts can't get the money to offer pay raises to begin with, where is the money going to come from to pay the idiots choosing to be on the other plan? LOLOLOLOL.

let me ask you a queston because you are a teacher who is obviously very upset with how the gov is treating you. isnt it true obama embraced this performance pay scale thing? and if so why again are teachers allowing the unions who collect 2 BILLION dollars from them anually to push for liberals? perhaps its time teachers realize on a whole they are not representing thier best interest.


WASHINGTON — Dangling the promise of $5 billion in grants, President Barack Obama pressured states to embrace his ideas for overhauling the nation’s schools, ideas that include performance pay for teachers and charter schools.

To get the money, state officials may have to do things they, or the teachers’ unions, dislike. But in a recession that is starving state budgets, the new “Race to the Top” fund is proving impossible for some states to resist.
http://askatechteacher.wordpress.com/2009/07/29/obama-mandates-teacher-performance-pay/

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Ghost_Rider1 wrote:
PACEDOG#1 wrote:
It was just breaking even. We've been 4 years without a raise. I should have eclipsed 50k three years ago, but haven't because they have jacked with the pay scale over and over.

Here is what is even funnier...there is a new performance pay schedule that will be implemented I believe in the 2013-14 school year. Teachers can choose that scale or remain on the one we currently have which will not "guarantee" the larger style pay increases that the state will offer. Teachers choosing the new "performance pay scale" will lose their tenure and be subject to job loss if students do not show adequate gains(of which the state courts just ruled that the formula used to determine student progress is flawed and must be redone). All new hires from this year forward cannot ever gain tenure and will be forever tied to the new pay system.

Now, how can the state offer a premium pay scale for teachers when they cannot even offer raises on the standard scale to the folks already working in the system? Where is this money magically going to come from to pay these performance salaries? Hmmmmm. The cart was set waaaay in front of the horse on this deal. If districts can't get the money to offer pay raises to begin with, where is the money going to come from to pay the idiots choosing to be on the other plan? LOLOLOLOL.

PD, please explain to me what is so wrong with performance based pay raises or even job security. I have worked for 2 companies that gave raises and retained employees based on their monthly evaluations. I have a friend that works for Cox Communications and his raises and job security are also based on his performance evals though he has topped out currently in his job, but he still must maintain good evals in order to retain his job. If you do the damn job you were hired to do, you should not have a problem.

i agree, ive never had a job that didnt require a performance evaluation. I think they are important and are helpful to weed out poor performing employees.

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Nekochan wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
Nekochan wrote:What you have read about federal salaries is correct. The lower level federal workers make a lot more working for the federal government than they would in the private market. Someone who might make 20K in the private market can make 30K+ working for the federal government. But the higher skilled and educated federal workers make the same or less than they would in the private sector. My husband is an aerospace engineer and he has worked in both the private sector and for the federal government and his pay has been on average about the same whether with the federal government or private sector. I say this because the private companies he worked for may have paid him a little higher salary, but the federal government benefits are generous, so it has pretty much has evened out. (However, I should note that federal workers have been under a pay freeze for the last 2 years.) Most companies do not today offer pension plans, other than 401K plans. But federal workers have a pension plan that they pay into plus a 401 type plan they can contribute to. l think they need to contribute more to their pensions and there needs to be another round of federal pension reform. So all in all--when it comes to benefits, most federal workers come out ahead when they start collecting their pensions. But for doctors, scientists and other highly skilled workers--I do not believe that they are being overpaid by the federal government compared to the civilian market.

No. My conterparts in the private sector were making 5-6 times more than I did at the same job in the military.

Unless you're now saying that the military is underpaid and should be allowed to unionize.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile

I wasn't talking about military, I was talking about federal civilian employees....but anyway--

Most civilians work for 35+ years in the civilian workforce. Most military people retire at 20 years. Military pay charts increase in pay by number of years served. Most active duty people never reach the 30+ year mark in the military. If my husband were active duty now, he'd have over 30 years of service and his base pay would be over 100K. His housing pay would be nearly $2000 a month, most places in the US. Of course, he'd be away from home half the time, but he'd be well compensated. And he'd be looking at a damn good pension ahead of him, as well.


Most civilian employees do not receive free housing or free health care or any of the other allowances that military people get. My family has been on both sides of the coin as well--there are pros and cons on both sides. Military people earn every penny of their pay but looking at base pay only tells half the story about military pay.

I think the military is pretty well compensated, with all the allowances they receive, but then how much is enough money for someone who's sent out to be shot at?

Civilian security companies like Blackwater and other tech support companies pay a hell of a lot better than military pay.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile

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Nekochan wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
Nekochan wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
Nekochan wrote:My husband would take that, Damaged Eagle. With his time served and experience--and with the housing allowance and all that, he'd be making considerably more money on the military pay scale.

Lets talk about GOV Pensions if we may - Page 3 Is?VDJ2l2i8gra_pmNrj8B8z1eAzqpaTT83lA10BpqRt9Q

That's not what you said last time I suggested that all government employees should be on the military pay scale. As I recall a couple people became aggressive about where they should fall on the pay scale because they had a college degree and thought that made them more deserving and rated officer pay.

No one ever said that a person would or should get rich working for the government.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5X_Dd_6Czk

Smile

That's because you said that a teacher with a college degree should start as an E-5, which is ridiculous.

No one ever said you'd get rich working for the government...

http://www.militaryfactory.com/2013-military-pay-chart.asp

I'm sorry that $2,000 a month (E-5 starting pay), plus BAQ, COMRATS, COLA, and health care isn't enough for you to live on as a starting teacher. Two grand a month is more than a starting teacher makes at the private school in this county without all the extras I just stated every month they make about $18,000 a year without benefits because I know a couple of them. Which means those private school teachers are paying for all those extras out of their own pocket... Isn't the public school union stance that they want comparible wages to the private sector?... Hm.m..m... Sounds like I'm overcompensating the public emplyees here also. Maybe I should start those public school teachers as E-3's!

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile




$18,000 for a teacher--after 4 years of making little/no money and paying a lot of money to go to school.....is little more than min wage. They would have been better off taking a job straight out of high school and they likely would be doing better after 4 years of working. Or they could have gone to trade school for a year.

When there's such a large supply of people with teaching degrees and so few jobs do the math. It's called supply and demand.

If you don't like the pay you can always get a job flipping burgers with your Creating Writing degee and attached teaching credentials.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile

Nekochan

Nekochan

Damaged Eagle wrote:
Nekochan wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
Nekochan wrote:What you have read about federal salaries is correct. The lower level federal workers make a lot more working for the federal government than they would in the private market. Someone who might make 20K in the private market can make 30K+ working for the federal government. But the higher skilled and educated federal workers make the same or less than they would in the private sector. My husband is an aerospace engineer and he has worked in both the private sector and for the federal government and his pay has been on average about the same whether with the federal government or private sector. I say this because the private companies he worked for may have paid him a little higher salary, but the federal government benefits are generous, so it has pretty much has evened out. (However, I should note that federal workers have been under a pay freeze for the last 2 years.) Most companies do not today offer pension plans, other than 401K plans. But federal workers have a pension plan that they pay into plus a 401 type plan they can contribute to. l think they need to contribute more to their pensions and there needs to be another round of federal pension reform. So all in all--when it comes to benefits, most federal workers come out ahead when they start collecting their pensions. But for doctors, scientists and other highly skilled workers--I do not believe that they are being overpaid by the federal government compared to the civilian market.

No. My conterparts in the private sector were making 5-6 times more than I did at the same job in the military.

Unless you're now saying that the military is underpaid and should be allowed to unionize.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile

I wasn't talking about military, I was talking about federal civilian employees....but anyway--

Most civilians work for 35+ years in the civilian workforce. Most military people retire at 20 years. Military pay charts increase in pay by number of years served. Most active duty people never reach the 30+ year mark in the military. If my husband were active duty now, he'd have over 30 years of service and his base pay would be over 100K. His housing pay would be nearly $2000 a month, most places in the US. Of course, he'd be away from home half the time, but he'd be well compensated. And he'd be looking at a damn good pension ahead of him, as well.


Most civilian employees do not receive free housing or free health care or any of the other allowances that military people get. My family has been on both sides of the coin as well--there are pros and cons on both sides. Military people earn every penny of their pay but looking at base pay only tells half the story about military pay.

I think the military is pretty well compensated, with all the allowances they receive, but then how much is enough money for someone who's sent out to be shot at?

Civilian security companies like Blackwater and other tech support companies pay a hell of a lot better than military pay.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile

I'm sure that they do. My son's job pays a lot better than he was paid in the Army. But...the Army did train him and give him the experience that enabled him to get a good job when he left the service. His experience in the Army also gave him the discipline needed to work and survive in a high stress environment. And then there was his security clearance which didn't hurt either. But not everyone is able to leave the military and walk into a good paying civilian job. It all depends on the skills and training. My son scored very high on the ASVAB and therefore he was able to obtain some of the best training that the Army offers. But I would venture to say that most military people are not able to get higher pay (base pay plus all the benefits) when they first leave the service and take a civilian job.



Last edited by Nekochan on 10/29/2012, 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total

Nekochan

Nekochan

Damaged Eagle wrote:
Nekochan wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
Nekochan wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
Nekochan wrote:My husband would take that, Damaged Eagle. With his time served and experience--and with the housing allowance and all that, he'd be making considerably more money on the military pay scale.

Lets talk about GOV Pensions if we may - Page 3 Is?VDJ2l2i8gra_pmNrj8B8z1eAzqpaTT83lA10BpqRt9Q

That's not what you said last time I suggested that all government employees should be on the military pay scale. As I recall a couple people became aggressive about where they should fall on the pay scale because they had a college degree and thought that made them more deserving and rated officer pay.

No one ever said that a person would or should get rich working for the government.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5X_Dd_6Czk

Smile

That's because you said that a teacher with a college degree should start as an E-5, which is ridiculous.

No one ever said you'd get rich working for the government...

http://www.militaryfactory.com/2013-military-pay-chart.asp

I'm sorry that $2,000 a month (E-5 starting pay), plus BAQ, COMRATS, COLA, and health care isn't enough for you to live on as a starting teacher. Two grand a month is more than a starting teacher makes at the private school in this county without all the extras I just stated every month they make about $18,000 a year without benefits because I know a couple of them. Which means those private school teachers are paying for all those extras out of their own pocket... Isn't the public school union stance that they want comparible wages to the private sector?... Hm.m..m... Sounds like I'm overcompensating the public emplyees here also. Maybe I should start those public school teachers as E-3's!

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile




$18,000 for a teacher--after 4 years of making little/no money and paying a lot of money to go to school.....is little more than min wage. They would have been better off taking a job straight out of high school and they likely would be doing better after 4 years of working. Or they could have gone to trade school for a year.

When there's such a large supply of people with teaching degrees and so few jobs do the math. It's called supply and demand.

If you don't like the pay you can always get a job flipping burgers with your Creating Writing degee and attached teaching credentials.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile

Attached teaching credentials? What the heck does that mean? You think that "teaching credentials" are just thrown onto a degree as an afterthought?
I don't think you have a clue what kind of training, testing, and certification that teachers are required to have today.

Guest


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Rogue wrote:
PACEDOG#1 wrote:@Rogue

Teachers don't make $9 an hour either, but if they did, how could you expect them to kick back 3% of their income to the state and be able to afford anything more to rent than a used FEMA trailer?

I looked up the national average on wages for teachers k-12, seems start out some was $9 a hour.

I am well aware most dont make that. I am well aware as I have said that teachers dont make enough. with that said, what about all the $9 an hour lab assistants who have do deal with defecation, urine, vomit, and blood every day, they are asked to contribute to thier retirment fund or do without?

im sorry my best apology wasnt good enough for you so Ill geuss we have to go there. Why should federal workers have any special benefits when they are paid by tax payer dollars when the tax payers themselves dont have the same garentees?

Got a link for the $9 per hour? Is that teachers who are degreed and certified? Teachers in Mississippi don't even make that paltry amount. Hell, a beginning teacher when I started back in the early 90s made more than $9 an hour. There are plenty of teachers who do deal with defecation, urine and vomit. Come to my school and walk across the hall to the Physically Impaired class. Head on over to Escambia Westgate and see what teachers deal with there or at the Lakeview Center (Day Treatment). Locally in Santa Rosa there is also TR Jackson where teachers deal with that as well.

Guest


Guest

PACEDOG#1 wrote:
Rogue wrote:
PACEDOG#1 wrote:@Rogue

Teachers don't make $9 an hour either, but if they did, how could you expect them to kick back 3% of their income to the state and be able to afford anything more to rent than a used FEMA trailer?

I looked up the national average on wages for teachers k-12, seems start out some was $9 a hour.

I am well aware most dont make that. I am well aware as I have said that teachers dont make enough. with that said, what about all the $9 an hour lab assistants who have do deal with defecation, urine, vomit, and blood every day, they are asked to contribute to thier retirment fund or do without?

im sorry my best apology wasnt good enough for you so Ill geuss we have to go there. Why should federal workers have any special benefits when they are paid by tax payer dollars when the tax payers themselves dont have the same garentees?

Got a link for the $9 per hour? Is that teachers who are degreed and certified? Teachers in Mississippi don't even make that paltry amount. Hell, a beginning teacher when I started back in the early 90s made more than $9 an hour. There are plenty of teachers who do deal with defecation, urine and vomit. Come to my school and walk across the hall to the Physically Impaired class. Head on over to Escambia Westgate and see what teachers deal with there or at the Lakeview Center (Day Treatment). Locally in Santa Rosa there is also TR Jackson where teachers deal with that as well.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Hourly_Rate

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Ghost_Rider1 wrote:

PD, please explain to me what is so wrong with performance based pay raises or even job security. I have worked for 2 companies that gave raises and retained employees based on their monthly evaluations. I have a friend that works for Cox Communications and his raises and job security are also based on his performance evals though he has topped out currently in his job, but he still must maintain good evals in order to retain his job. If you do the damn job you were hired to do, you should not have a problem.

Here is what is wrong with a teacher performance pay scale:

1) Every teacher does not have kids of the same ability.
2) Every teacher does not have kids with the same motivation and in some classes kids are not motivated at all.

Let's say Teacher A has kids who are motivated, have parents who are engaged in the learning process, parents that follow what their child is doing in school, parents who DO show up at orientation and for anything the school calls for to better their child's education etc

Then we have Teacher B who has four kids out of 25-28 who will pop in and out of school back and forth across the state line running from DCF all year, three others who attend school about half of the week at best, then another three to four who are "pushed-in" from ESE classes who have never been in a real Algebra class their entire school careers but have to be there even though they have never passed a Pre-Algebra class either or have their basic facts memorized to the point where calculator use is not needed, then at least two who show up and have to attend counseling because they are a) living in a car with their parents, b) living with grandma and grandpa because mom and dad are meth addicts and don't want their kids, and then four or five jocks who think that they are going to pass just because they are football/baseball or other sports stars.... oh and none of your parents will even return a call or email about their child's academic performance.


How will Teacher B stand a chance against Teacher A when a comparison is made? Which teacher do you think will earn the merit pay?

You are judged by the efforts that YOU put into your work. A teacher is at the mercy of how the students perform. What happens if on the day of FCAT Jimmy's mom just got finished beating the hades out of him before he arrives at school? Or she didn't feed the child and while he sits trying to complete the FCAT you can hear his stomach growling? (Yes, I have had that happen when I have proctored exams.)

Unless an equal playing field can be created between subject matter teachers, how will those teachers be judged in an equal manner?


All of the things I have mentioned and more happen to kids every day that I go into a classroom. I'm all for being judged by a fair standard and an even playing ground about student performance. The problem with this entire issue is that all students are not born with an equal ability to learn. Everyone cannot be ABOVE AVERAGE as the state, the federal government, and NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND pretends them to be. There are high performers, middle of the road, low performers, and kids who perform poorly because of intellectual deficits and/or other disabilities.

Just this year the state formula for determining teacher performance was thrown out because even the people who created it were not able to fully explain how it works. Then the state also wants to create a value added measure (VAM) to help inflate the scores of students with the aforementioned issues. They can't really explain how this works as well. Local secondary schools still won't know until December or January what our FCAT results and school scores will be. Then we will have less than two months to interpret the data and create some interventions that will help improve our scores. How asinine is that?

That is why peformance pay for teachers is total TOROCACA.

Guest


Guest

Rogue wrote:

http://www.payscale.com/research

/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Hourly_Rate


Popular Employers



KinderCare Learning Centers, Inc.

$11.71 - $13.76



Goddard

$10.88 - $15.93



Chicago Public Schools

Not enough data



Sylvan Learning Centers

Not enough data



La Petite Academy, Inc.

Not enough data


Those listed above are not REAL teachers. You can have a high school education and teach at most of these places. Please look at the scale above these items and look at the bar graph.

Florida pays some of the LOWEST teaching salaries in the nation. I doubt there is a county that pays less than 30k to a certified and licensed teacher. That represents at least $16-17 per hour minimum when divided by contract hours.

Guest


Guest

Rogue wrote:

let me ask you a queston because you are a teacher who is obviously very upset with how the gov is treating you. isnt it true obama embraced this performance pay scale thing? and if so why again are teachers allowing the unions who collect 2 BILLION dollars from them anually to push for liberals? perhaps its time teachers realize on a whole they are not representing thier best interest.


WASHINGTON — Dangling the promise of $5 billion in grants, President Barack Obama pressured states to embrace his ideas for overhauling the nation’s schools, ideas that include performance pay for teachers and charter schools.

To get the money, state officials may have to do things they, or the teachers’ unions, dislike. But in a recession that is starving state budgets, the new “Race to the Top” fund is proving impossible for some states to resist.
http://askatechteacher.wordpress.com/2009/07/29/obama-mandates-teacher-performance-pay/

Obama is no better than Bush with his initiatives for education. His RACE TO THE TOP is really screwing things up for the worse.

I am not a union member and was only a union member one year of my two decades plus in education. The main reason teachers join unions is for the lawyers that you get if a lawsuit occurs. Our local SRPE representative has their salary paid by the school board, so who do you think she REALLY works for???

Guest


Guest

PACEDOG#1 wrote:
Rogue wrote:

let me ask you a queston because you are a teacher who is obviously very upset with how the gov is treating you. isnt it true obama embraced this performance pay scale thing? and if so why again are teachers allowing the unions who collect 2 BILLION dollars from them anually to push for liberals? perhaps its time teachers realize on a whole they are not representing thier best interest.


WASHINGTON — Dangling the promise of $5 billion in grants, President Barack Obama pressured states to embrace his ideas for overhauling the nation’s schools, ideas that include performance pay for teachers and charter schools.

To get the money, state officials may have to do things they, or the teachers’ unions, dislike. But in a recession that is starving state budgets, the new “Race to the Top” fund is proving impossible for some states to resist.
http://askatechteacher.wordpress.com/2009/07/29/obama-mandates-teacher-performance-pay/

Obama is no better than Bush with his initiatives for education. His RACE TO THE TOP is really screwing things up for the worse.

I am not a union member and was only a union member one year of my two decades plus in education. The main reason teachers join unions is for the lawyers that you get if a lawsuit occurs. Our local SRPE representative has their salary paid by the school board, so who do you think she REALLY works for???

Id say obama has pretty much taken everything that was bad before and made it worse.

I'm sorry I made you upset over this. If it makes you feel better i really do think its not right that teachers dont make more. I have good friends who are teachers and they are very educated smart people who have dedicated thier lives to educating our young. Thats a hard job, I wouldnt want it.

If the profession could get rid of the union nationally I think this profession would draw in more people who dont have such a leftist agenda and the quality might improve. The union really puts a stigma on the profession in general and many intelligent people choose to not go into it because of that.

oh and your question, of course, she works for the Gov best interest. Thats always a problem anytime you work for the gov. Working for the gov, is really like working for a communist country, that quote comes directly from my veteran army son. and I agree, because gov organizations dont have the same worries as private organizations, if they dont meet thier budgets, they dont go out of bussiness.

Guest


Guest

Rogue wrote:
PACEDOG#1 wrote:
Rogue wrote:

let me ask you a queston because you are a teacher who is obviously very upset with how the gov is treating you. isnt it true obama embraced this performance pay scale thing? and if so why again are teachers allowing the unions who collect 2 BILLION dollars from them anually to push for liberals? perhaps its time teachers realize on a whole they are not representing thier best interest.


WASHINGTON — Dangling the promise of $5 billion in grants, President Barack Obama pressured states to embrace his ideas for overhauling the nation’s schools, ideas that include performance pay for teachers and charter schools.

To get the money, state officials may have to do things they, or the teachers’ unions, dislike. But in a recession that is starving state budgets, the new “Race to the Top” fund is proving impossible for some states to resist.
http://askatechteacher.wordpress.com/2009/07/29/obama-mandates-teacher-performance-pay/

Obama is no better than Bush with his initiatives for education. His RACE TO THE TOP is really screwing things up for the worse.

I am not a union member and was only a union member one year of my two decades plus in education. The main reason teachers join unions is for the lawyers that you get if a lawsuit occurs. Our local SRPE representative has their salary paid by the school board, so who do you think she REALLY works for???

Id say obama has pretty much taken everything that was bad before and made it worse.

I'm sorry I made you upset over this. If it makes you feel better i really do think its not right that teachers dont make more. I have good friends who are teachers and they are very educated smart people who have dedicated thier lives to educating our young. Thats a hard job, I wouldnt want it.

If the profession could get rid of the union nationally I think this profession would draw in more people who dont have such a leftist agenda and the quality might improve. The union really puts a stigma on the profession in general and many intelligent people choose to not go into it because of that.

oh and your question, of course, she works for the Gov best interest. Thats always a problem anytime you work for the gov. Working for the gov, is really like working for a communist country, that quote comes directly from my veteran army son. and I agree, because gov organizations dont have the same worries as private organizations, if they dont meet thier budgets, they dont go out of bussiness.

I'm sorry if you think I am attacking you over this because I am not. Does it make me perturbed? LOL Hell yes. I don't expect to be rich being a teacher. I do expect a living salary for working with our most valuable resource-kids.

If you want to draw more workers, you will have to have a salary equal to what professionals in other areas are making that is equal to the educational level. People with business degrees do not make less than 50k per year after 20+ years of experience. Neither do accountants, actuaries, nurses, firemen, post office workers, police officers, etc as I could go on and on.

When I was at UWF last spring taking a National Security Policy class, most of the young people there would not consider a teaching career because it flat out won't pay for their student loan debt.

They also don't want the stigma as well. Many people perceive teachers as high paid baby sitters. If so, pay me that $5 per hour per kid per 7.5 hour day. I'd triple my income.

Anyhow, no hard feelings here. I want to be paid what I feel my degree and certifications are worth. When I get there, I can quit the second job I have had since 1999.

Guest


Guest

PACEDOG#1 wrote:
Rogue wrote:
PACEDOG#1 wrote:
Rogue wrote:

let me ask you a queston because you are a teacher who is obviously very upset with how the gov is treating you. isnt it true obama embraced this performance pay scale thing? and if so why again are teachers allowing the unions who collect 2 BILLION dollars from them anually to push for liberals? perhaps its time teachers realize on a whole they are not representing thier best interest.


WASHINGTON — Dangling the promise of $5 billion in grants, President Barack Obama pressured states to embrace his ideas for overhauling the nation’s schools, ideas that include performance pay for teachers and charter schools.

To get the money, state officials may have to do things they, or the teachers’ unions, dislike. But in a recession that is starving state budgets, the new “Race to the Top” fund is proving impossible for some states to resist.
http://askatechteacher.wordpress.com/2009/07/29/obama-mandates-teacher-performance-pay/

Obama is no better than Bush with his initiatives for education. His RACE TO THE TOP is really screwing things up for the worse.

I am not a union member and was only a union member one year of my two decades plus in education. The main reason teachers join unions is for the lawyers that you get if a lawsuit occurs. Our local SRPE representative has their salary paid by the school board, so who do you think she REALLY works for???

Id say obama has pretty much taken everything that was bad before and made it worse.

I'm sorry I made you upset over this. If it makes you feel better i really do think its not right that teachers dont make more. I have good friends who are teachers and they are very educated smart people who have dedicated thier lives to educating our young. Thats a hard job, I wouldnt want it.

If the profession could get rid of the union nationally I think this profession would draw in more people who dont have such a leftist agenda and the quality might improve. The union really puts a stigma on the profession in general and many intelligent people choose to not go into it because of that.

oh and your question, of course, she works for the Gov best interest. Thats always a problem anytime you work for the gov. Working for the gov, is really like working for a communist country, that quote comes directly from my veteran army son. and I agree, because gov organizations dont have the same worries as private organizations, if they dont meet thier budgets, they dont go out of bussiness.

I'm sorry if you think I am attacking you over this because I am not. Does it make me perturbed? LOL Hell yes. I don't expect to be rich being a teacher. I do expect a living salary for working with our most valuable resource-kids.

If you want to draw more workers, you will have to have a salary equal to what professionals in other areas are making that is equal to the educational level. People with business degrees do not make less than 50k per year after 20+ years of experience. Neither do accountants, actuaries, nurses, firemen, post office workers, police officers, etc as I could go on and on.

When I was at UWF last spring taking a National Security Policy class, most of the young people there would not consider a teaching career because it flat out won't pay for their student loan debt.

They also don't want the stigma as well. Many people perceive teachers as high paid baby sitters. If so, pay me that $5 per hour per kid per 7.5 hour day. I'd triple my income.

Anyhow, no hard feelings here. I want to be paid what I feel my degree and certifications are worth. When I get there, I can quit the second job I have had since 1999.

I dont think your attacking me. Youre standing your ground on your beleifs and I wouldnt expect anything less from you. I respect you for that.
Smile

Guest


Guest

Rogue wrote:

I dont think your attacking me. Youre standing your ground on your beleifs and I wouldnt expect anything less from you. I respect you for that.
Smile

Thans nice lady. I appreciate your comments. I am working on being more tactful.

Guest


Guest

PACEDOG#1 wrote:
Rogue wrote:

I dont think your attacking me. Youre standing your ground on your beleifs and I wouldnt expect anything less from you. I respect you for that.
Smile

Thans nice lady. I appreciate your comments. I am working on being more tactful.

You are very tacful dear sir....... you sexy hunk of a man I love you

Wink

Guest


Guest

Nekochan wrote:Attached teaching credentials? What the heck does that mean? You think that "teaching credentials" are just thrown onto a degree as an afterthought?
I don't think you have a clue what kind of training, testing, and certification that teachers are required to have today.

I went to college and was studying to be a teacher after leaving the service. Gee... I wonder why I have so many credits in psychology, socieology, anthropology, etc... Most of which were so easy that I was getting A's and could just as well have slept in class to get. Could it be because it requires those for the liberal arts degree that a science major requires? Don't tell me about training, testing, and certification, when most of the young ones in these classes were more concerned with where the next party was going to be held.

I think YOU don't have a clue as to what kind of training, testing, certifications, etc... are required to make E-6 and above in the military. The college I attended surely didn't. Probably why they told me I had to start at ground zero instead of allowing my transferred credits count as anything to get me finished with college earlier.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile

Nekochan

Nekochan

Damaged Eagle wrote:
Nekochan wrote:Attached teaching credentials? What the heck does that mean? You think that "teaching credentials" are just thrown onto a degree as an afterthought?
I don't think you have a clue what kind of training, testing, and certification that teachers are required to have today.

I went to college and was studying to be a teacher after leaving the service. Gee... I wonder why I have so many credits in psychology, socieology, anthropology, etc... Most of which were so easy that I was getting A's and could just as well have slept in class to get. Could it be because it requires those for the liberal arts degree that a science major requires? Don't tell me about training, testing, and certification, when most of the young ones in these classes were more concerned with where the next party was going to be held.

I think YOU don't have a clue as to what kind of training, testing, certifications, etc... are required to make E-6 and above in the military. The college I attended surely didn't. Probably why they told me I had to start at ground zero instead of allowing my transferred credits count as anything to get me finished with college earlier.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile


Doesn't sound like any education course schedule that I've heard of. Did you do the practicums, the certification exams, the internship?
Did you ever earn your teaching degree?

I realize the training and work involved in making rank in the military. But while you were working to make it to E-2, E-3, E-4, etc-- those in the teaching program were also studying and working, and doing so without pay and while paying for their schooling. At E-6, you'd be on a career track in the military...why would anyone get out after making E-6?

Guest


Guest

Nekochan wrote:Doesn't sound like any education course schedule that I've heard of. Did you do the practicums, the certification exams, the internship?
Did you ever earn your teaching degree?

I realize the training and work involved in making rank in the military. But while you were working to make it to E-2, E-3, E-4, etc-- those in the teaching program were also studying and working, and doing so without pay and while paying for their schooling. At E-6, you'd be on a career track in the military...why would anyone get out after making E-6?

The colleges, and attitudes like yours, about military training; along with lack of funds to continue; forced me to reevaluate my decision of becoming a teacher in a progressive liberal politically motivated educational system.

That's alright. One less high school science and math teacher is no biggy in the grand scheme of things. I enjoy having to reteach things to my children and grandchildren because to the ineptness of our educational system.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Smile





Guest


Guest

PACEDOG#1 wrote:
Here is what is wrong with a teacher performance pay scale:

1) Every teacher does not have kids of the same ability.
2) Every teacher does not have kids with the same motivation and in some classes kids are not motivated at all.


1) Every employer does not have employees with the same ability.
2) Every employer does not have employees with the same motivation and some are not motivated at all.

So what's your point? I can do my job as an employer and attempt to motivate them or teach them properly. This is nothing more than a teacher in a classroom should be doing instead of bitching about how unfair performance based pay is.

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