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The United States of America Is Decadent and Depraved

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Floridatexan

Floridatexan


The problem isn’t Donald Trump – it’s the Donald Trump in all of us.

BY JAMES TRAUB | DECEMBER 19, 2017, 1:08 PM

"In The History of the Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire, Edward Gibbon luridly evokes the Rome of 408 A.D., when the armies of the Goths prepared to descend upon the city. The marks of imperial decadence appeared not only in grotesque displays of public opulence and waste, but also in the collapse of faith in reason and science. The people of Rome, Gibbon writes, fell prey to “a puerile superstition” promoted by astrologers and to soothsayers who claimed “to read in the entrails of victims the signs of future greatness and prosperity.”

Would a latter-day Gibbon describe today’s America as “decadent”? I recently heard a prominent, and pro-American, French thinker (who was speaking off the record) say just that. He was moved to use the word after watching endless news accounts of U.S. President Donald Trump’s tweets alternate with endless revelations of sexual harassment. I flinched, perhaps because a Frenchman accusing Americans of decadence seems contrary to the order of nature. And the reaction to Harvey Weinstein et al. is scarcely a sign of hysterical puritanism, as I suppose he was implying.

And yet, the shoe fit. The sensation of creeping rot evoked by that word seems terribly apt.

Perhaps in a democracy the distinctive feature of decadence is not debauchery but terminal self-absorptionPerhaps in a democracy the distinctive feature of decadence is not debauchery but terminal self-absorption — the loss of the capacity for collective action, the belief in common purpose, even the acceptance of a common form of reasoning. We listen to necromancers who prophesy great things while they lead us into disaster. We sneer at the idea of a “public” and hold our fellow citizens in contempt. We think anyone who doesn’t pursue self-interest is a fool.

We cannot blame everything on Donald Trump, much though we might want to. In the decadent stage of the Roman Empire, or of Louis XVI’s France, or the dying days of the Habsburg Empire so brilliantly captured in Robert Musil’s The Man Without Qualities, decadence seeped downward from the rulers to the ruled. But in a democracy, the process operates reciprocally. A decadent elite licenses degraded behavior, and a debased public chooses its worst leaders. Then our Nero panders to our worst attributes — and we reward him for doing so.

“Decadence,” in short, describes a cultural, moral, and spiritual disorder — the Donald Trump in us. It is the right, of course, that first introduced the language of civilizational decay to American political discourse. A quarter of a century ago, Patrick Buchanan bellowed at the Republican National Convention that the two parties were fighting “a religious war … for the soul of America.” Former Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) accused the Democrats of practicing “multicultural nihilistic hedonism,” of despising the values of ordinary Americans, of corruption, and of illegitimacy. That all-accusing voice became the voice of the Republican Party. Today it is not the nihilistic hedonism of imperial Rome that threatens American civilization but the furies unleashed by Gingrich and his kin..."

(more)

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/12/19/the-united-states-of-america-is-decadent-and-depraved/

bigdog



FT, according to the last election, at least 3 million more of us are not like that than are like that. In truth, the brainwashed, unwashed, proud ignorant are only about 30% of Americans.
At least 70% of other Americans don't want others to lose their health coverage, or have their disability payments decreased, or the elderly to lose nursing home care. Most of us are not that bad of people and I don't think even many Republicans are like that when they sit down and think about it.
I wouldn't trash this country yet,especially after the election in Alabama a couple of weeks ago.
Trump is a breed unto himself. There are some others as evil as him, Bannon for one and people like the Koch brothers, but they are an extremely small minority of Americans. I also believe they are an extremely small minority of humanity.
I'm not giving up on the good guys yet-this is an election year and some amazing things can happen if there is a large enough voter turnout. I think there will be this time.

RealLindaL



bigdog wrote:I'm not giving up on the good guys yet-this is an election year and some amazing things can happen if there is a large enough voter turnout. I think there will be this time.

Very encouraging words, bigdog - thanks. Nothing I'd love better than to see a huge, nationwide Democratic backlash landslide in November. And you're right - it could happen.

Let's just hope the five-year-old in the White House doesn't bring us to the brink of war or something as a distraction. I almost wouldn't put it past him.

Telstar

Telstar

bigdog wrote:
I wouldn't trash this country yet,especially after the election in Alabama a couple of weeks ago.




You may not trash this country yet but you may want to trash Alabama if child molester Moore is successful in his effort to block the election result.



















RealLindaL



Telstar wrote:
bigdog wrote:
I wouldn't trash this country yet,especially after the election in Alabama a couple of weeks ago.

You may not trash this country yet but you may want to trash Alabama if child molester Moore is successful in his effort to block the election result.

Which, as we now know, he wasn't -  and Alabama's secretary of state (a Republican who reportedly voted for Roy Moore) was firm in standing behind the election's validity and confirming the lack of credibility of any of Moore's claims of election fraud.  Gotta give him credit.

I did find it amusing that Moore apparently included, in his attempt to have a judge block the certification, a statement to the effect that he'd successfully passed a polygraph test indicating he didn't know any of the women who'd accused him nor had he ever done anything to them.   AS IF!!!   And, of course, the results of that test were not included in his submission.

Some have called for sanctions against Moore for bringing a frivolous action.   I heartily concur.

Another moron for the ages.



Last edited by RealLindaL on 12/29/2017, 1:20 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Corrected to cite secretary of state, not attorney general)

Guest


Guest

Sooo... just so we are clear... are we going to condemn all sexual deviants... or are there going to be leftist variations? Are we going to wait for an accusation to become conviction? Until resignation? Depends?

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

PkrBum wrote:Sooo... just so we are clear... are we going to condemn all sexual deviants... or are there going to be leftist variations? Are we going to wait for an accusation to become conviction? Until resignation? Depends?

Only you.

RealLindaL



PkrBum wrote:Sooo... just so we are clear... are we going to condemn all sexual deviants... or are there going to be leftist variations? Are we going to wait for an accusation to become conviction? Until resignation? Depends?

Sooo.....just so we are clear...exactly what do YOU recommend, hm?

Deus X

Deus X

Floridatexan wrote:
The problem isn’t Donald Trump – it’s the Donald Trump in all of us.

BY JAMES TRAUB | DECEMBER 19, 2017, 1:08 PM

"In The History of the Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire, Edward Gibbon luridly evokes the Rome of 408 A.D., when the armies of the Goths prepared to descend upon the city. The marks of imperial decadence appeared not only in grotesque displays of public opulence and waste, but also in the collapse of faith in reason and science. The people of Rome, Gibbon writes, fell prey to “a puerile superstition” promoted by astrologers and to soothsayers who claimed “to read in the entrails of victims the signs of future greatness and prosperity.”

blah, blah, blah...


Oh, please, this "Gibbon's Decline and Fall" analogy gets trotted out every twenty years or so. I can remember it being used in a book of essays about The Gilded Age of the 1880s and it certainly made an appearance in articles about the wretched excess of the late 1920s. It showed up again in the 60s--imagine that!--and during the hypomanic greed-binge of the late 80s. It's so close to being a cliche, no self-respecting writer would use it.

Gibbon's "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", to give its full title, is six volumes, ferchrissakes, and almost no one actually reads the whole thing. What happens, if you have to write a paper on it or something, is you start Volume One and before you're 50 pages into it you realize it has amazing soporific qualities and give up. Then you get a Cliff Notes version and maybe go to the library and read a few articles about it. Then you cobble together some horseshit and go to the bar, hoping you can find a hook-up to take your mind off it.

The author of this essay is a poster-child for privileged elitist intellectuals--Harvard, magna cum laude--and has almost certainly never gotten a blister from swinging a hammer or humping a shovel. His experience of the real world of struggling-to-get-by is nil. For all his education, he doesn't seem to realize that these eras of excess and then diminishment come and go. And sometime near the end of the excess part of the cycle some hack drags out poor old Gibbons and starts in with the decadence and decay bullshit. Gimme a break.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Deus X wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
The problem isn’t Donald Trump – it’s the Donald Trump in all of us.

BY JAMES TRAUB | DECEMBER 19, 2017, 1:08 PM

"In The History of the Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire, Edward Gibbon luridly evokes the Rome of 408 A.D., when the armies of the Goths prepared to descend upon the city. The marks of imperial decadence appeared not only in grotesque displays of public opulence and waste, but also in the collapse of faith in reason and science. The people of Rome, Gibbon writes, fell prey to “a puerile superstition” promoted by astrologers and to soothsayers who claimed “to read in the entrails of victims the signs of future greatness and prosperity.”

blah, blah, blah...


Oh, please, this "Gibbon's Decline and Fall" analogy gets trotted out every twenty years or so. I can remember it being used in a book of essays about The Gilded Age of the 1880s and it certainly made an appearance in articles about the wretched excess of the late 1920s. It showed up again in the 60s--imagine that!--and during the hypomanic greed-binge of the late 80s. It's so close to being a cliche, no self-respecting writer would use it.

Gibbon's "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", to give its full title, is six volumes, ferchrissakes, and almost no one actually reads the whole thing. What happens, if you have to write a paper on it or something, is you start Volume One and before you're 50 pages into it you realize it has amazing soporific qualities and give up. Then you get a Cliff Notes version and maybe go to the library and read a few articles about it. Then you cobble together some horseshit and go to the bar, hoping you can find a hook-up to take your mind off it.

The author of this essay is a poster-child for privileged elitist intellectuals--Harvard, magna cum laude--and has almost certainly never gotten a blister from swinging a hammer or humping a shovel. His experience of the real world of struggling-to-get-by is nil. For all his education, he doesn't seem to realize that these eras of excess and then diminishment come and go. And sometime near the end of the excess part of the cycle some hack drags out poor old Gibbons and starts in with the decadence and decay bullshit. Gimme a break.

O, thank you, Oracle. So a PhD is meaningless? And because he's written addressing the PRESENT CRISIS, his words have no validity...good to know. You, sir, are a cynic.

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