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Trump is destroying America's image, cohesiveness, and continuity.

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PkrBum
othershoe1030
zsomething
bigdog
Wordslinger
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Wordslinger

Wordslinger

This article comes directly to the point:

"
US Hysteria Blooms in Wake of North Korean Missile Splashdown

By William Boardman, Reader Supported News

30 November 17


Suppose an opportunity for peace arrived – could the US see it?


"The most dangerous thing about the North Korean missile launch is the reaction of the unprincipled, under-informed, white identity extremist sitting in the Oval Office. If there’s a nuclear war coming out of this manufactured “crisis,” the buck will have stopped with him. Not that President Trump doesn’t have other fools egging him on to risk global chaos and destruction in response to an imaginary, inflated threat from an impoverished nation of 25 million people. Sadly, this is not a surprising development after more than sixty years of aggressive US behavior toward North Korea.

But first, what about that November 29 missile launch, widely and dishonestly played as showing that that North Korea could hit any point in the US, even Washington or Mar-a-Lago? That meme is a speculative fear-tactic. In the fine print, none of the experts, not even hawkish defense secretary General Jim Mattis, one of the last supposed grown-ups in Trumplandia. The North Korean missile went higher – roughly 2,800 miles – than any previous North Korean missile, but it didn’t go very far, about 600 miles, landing in the ocean short of Japan.

Based on this scant information, mostly provided by the North Korean government, experts like David Wright of the Union of Concerned Scientists extrapolated the missile’s potential range from the actual 600 miles to an estimated 8,000 miles. This is not a scientific measurement but a speculative conjecture based on science as well as the unknown assumptions that the tested missile was carrying an actual warhead. Wright allowed for the possibility that the missile’s high performance was because it carried a dummy warhead of almost inconsequential weight. Wright concluded, according the New York Times, that “the distance traveled, while impressive, does not necessarily translate into a working intercontinental ballistic missile that could deliver a thermonuclear warhead.” That’s something of a non-threat threat lurking in a hypothetical future. For General Mattis, the projected possible threat, free of historical or strategic context, was all too real in his hyperbolic projection:

The bottom line is, it’s a continued effort to build a threat — a ballistic missile threat that endangers world peace, regional peace, and certainly, the United States.

This isn’t General Mattis prematurely overreacting to just one unevaluated missile test. General Mattis engages in the standard military operating procedure of threat-inflation on a regular basis, which does not distinguish him from two generations of other official military and executive branch fearmongers scaring us with apparent North Korean intentions, even while driving those intentions with real, constant American threatening. As General Mattis put it in late October:

North Korea has accelerated the threat that it poses to its neighbors and the world through its illegal and unnecessary missile and nuclear weapons programs…. I cannot imagine a condition under which the United States would accept North Korea as a nuclear power….

He said, “unnecessary.” He must know that’s absurdly Orwellian. The United States and North Korea have been in a state of war since 1950. The armistice of 1953 suspended the fighting but did not end the war. From then until now, North Korean sovereignty has been irrelevant to American leaders. So here we are, with North Korea already a nuclear power and the US refusing to accept a new reality, never mind US responsibility for creating that new reality through decades of open bellicosity. The times called the most recent missile launch “a bold act of defiance against President Trump,” which is a laughably unaware acceptance of the American assumption that it has any right to any authority over another sovereign state.

American denial of the North Korean perspective is the driving force in this largely artificial confrontation. North Korea has already been overrun by American forces once in living memory, in a war with largely unexamined American atrocities (we’ve propagandized their atrocities to a fare thee well). Overrun by Americans, only to be counter-overrun by the Chinese, North Koreans might well want to be left alone. The US and its allies, especially South Korea and Japan, have maintained unrelenting hostility to North Korea, whose best friend is an unreliable China. Why wouldn’t North Korea want a nuclear deterrent? Deterrence is the American justification for a nuclear arsenal that dwarfs all others but the Russians’.

But American leaders insist on calling North Korea a threat. North Korea was a threat in 1950. and that turned out very badly for them. Today, North Korea is a credible threat to no one except perhaps its own people. A North Korean attack on anyone would be met with overwhelming force up to and possibly including nuclear obliteration. North Korea is in check, and any honest observer knows that. Some even say so. Defense Dept. spokesman Colonel Robert Manning, in striking contrast to his shrill boss General Mattis, said:

We are working with our interagency partners on a more detailed assessment of the launch…. the missile launch from North Korea did not pose a threat to North America, our territories or our allies…. We remain prepared to defend ourselves and our allies from any attack or provocation.

That is so rational and basic that it should hardly need saying. We don’t live in a time when basic and rational get much attention. American arrogance and paranoia toward North Korea are longstanding, untreated pathologies that continue to worsen. As our Trump tweeted in early October, with his usual fact-free, threatening bombast:

Presidents and their administrations have been talking to North Korea for 25 years, agreements made and massive amounts of money paid ... hasn't worked, agreements violated before the ink was dry, makings fools of U.S. negotiators. Sorry, but only one thing will work!

Our Trump coyly avoided saying what he thought that one thing was, but his Secretary of State still says, “Diplomatic options remain viable and open for now.” Not that anyone pays much attention to Rex Tillerson these days as he guts the State Dept. of effective, experienced personnel. Much greater play goes to the crazy ranters who are already blaming the victims if it turns out we have to attack them (sounds like domestic violence, doesn’t it?). Case in point is Lindsey Graham, who plays a deranged Republican Senator from South Carolina, saying:

If we have to go to war to stop this, we will. If there's a war with North Korea it will be because North Korea brought it on itself, and we're headed to a war if things don't change.

Or as the battering husband puts it: “She just wouldn’t listen to me!” Echoing the blame-the-victim mantra, UN Ambassador Nikki Haley (famous for saying “women don’t care about contraception”) told the UN Security Council the missile launch was an act of “aggression” with serious potential consequences:

… make no mistake the North Korean regime will be utterly destroyed…. The dictator of North Korea made a decision yesterday that brings us closer to war, not farther from it. We have never sought war with North Korea and still today we do not seek it.

But they just won’t listen!

In North Korea, after the missile launch, leader Kim Jong Un said that his country has “finally realized the great historic cause of completing the state nuclear force.” A nuclear deterrent, in other words. This may or may not be entirely true. But they may or may not be beside the point. As writers in Japan Times note, this missile launch and its accompanying official statements could be an olive branch:

[North Korea] then said its pursuit of the “strategic weapon” had been intended to “defend the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country from the U.S. imperialists’ nuclear blackmail policy,” and emphasized that it would “not pose any threat to any country and region as long as the interests of the DPRK (the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea) are not infringed upon…. The DPRK will make every possible effort to serve the noble purpose of defending peace and stability of the world.”

Does it matter whether this is true as long as everyone acts like it’s true? Our Trump has a random relationship with truth, and his spokeswoman says it doesn’t matter whether his racist tweets are real or fake news. So what we have here is an excellent opportunity for the mocker-in-chief of his Asian allies to seize the opportunity to make white identity extremism great again and— oh, never mind.

PkrBum

PkrBum

Lol... nk sets off nukes and icbms... but it's the "reaction" that's the danger.

So now they have nukes and icbms. The tests should stop now according to leftist logic... right?

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:Lol... nk sets off nukes and icbms... but it's the "reaction" that's the danger.

So now they have nukes and icbms. The tests should stop now according to leftist logic... right?

Who gives a shit how many tests they make as long as they don't use their weaponry? The issue isn't nuclear or missile testing -- they've already proven they have nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles that can reach anywhere on earth. And just like your empty redneck threats(I remember you said you would knock out my teeth in one of your safe, anonymous responses) threats are worth nothing at all. It's actions that count.

I don't claim to speak for most liberals. But unlike you, I know the difference between threatening to use nuclear warfare, and actually using it. What you deplorables just can't bear to admit, is that little North Korea has check-mated the big, bad, tough-talkin' U.S.A.

And that, my stupid redneck friend, IS reality.



PkrBum

PkrBum

Stupid post and opinion. This was the first test that could reach anywhere in the US. NK hasn't done anything except put his country in harms way. There was no eminent threat to his little country except freedom for its people. His goal is as his father's... an iron grip on power. Naivety isn't a strategy comrade.

Btw... why did Obama kill gadafi? Why was he droning innocents including US citizens? Why did he bomb more muslim nations than bush2? All while you sat on your thumb. But now you're a thumb sucker. Pro leftist tip... you should've washed it first. Your outrage is simply political. No credibility.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:Stupid post and opinion. This was the first test that could reach anywhere in the US. NK hasn't done anything except put his country in harms way. There was no eminent threat to his little country except freedom for its people. His goal is as his father's... an iron grip on power. Naivety isn't a strategy comrade.

Btw... why did Obama kill gadafi? Why was he droning innocents including US citizens? Why did he bomb more muslim nations than bush2? All while you sat on your thumb. But now you're a thumb sucker. Pro leftist tip... you should've washed it first. Your outrage is simply political. No credibility.

As usual, your response is total bullshit. We've had troops at the demilitarized zone since 1953, and have threatened N. Korea continually with military exercises as well as offshore naval intrusions.

Also, you will not be able to find a single comment from me applauding or endorsing any of Obama's MidEast military moves. Not one.

As for sucking thumbs, that's your game too, not mine.

Once again, totally unable to respond with any might to the comments in this thread, you desperately attempt to deflect the valid accusations against mad man Trump's phony and plainly non-productive tough guy bullshit, by bringing up the moves of other presidents.

I applaud your dogged determination to display your utter stupidity regarding American foreign policy. Congratulations for once again making yourself and all conservatives look naive, and emotionally disturbed. No wonder you continually boost Trump.

PkrBum

PkrBum

Trump didn't create this issue. He likely won't be able to change it much. Blame goes to the appeasers.

Like Obama, bush2, and in particular Clinton. So keep slurping up revisionist weaksauce.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:Trump didn't create this issue. He likely won't be able to change it much. Blame goes to the appeasers.

Like Obama, bush2, and in particular Clinton. So keep slurping up revisionist weaksauce.

Blame for the issue goes back to 1953 and our ongoing policy of threatening N. Korea. Your desperation to find liberal blame for all foreign policy situations is laughably partisan.

Try and focus. The issue is the immediate threat of nuclear war with N. Korea -- not a dialogue about all those who led us to this moment.

Trump's bragging tough guy bullshit -- like yours -- is only exacerbating the drama of this very real conflict. Again there are but two options for the USA: 1) we first strike N.Korea and hope we've gotten all his nuked warhead missiles or 2) we promise not to first strike him if he does the same.

Our biggest problem isn't Kim Jong Un. It's mad man Trump!!

PkrBum

PkrBum

Yet you have no blame for the appeasement over the last 30 years during the nk nuclear buildup.

That's either very strange or a conditioned political response. Which is it? Why keep on that track?

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

PkrBum wrote:Yet you have no blame for the appeasement over the last 30 years during the nk nuclear buildup.

That's either very strange or a conditioned political response. Which is it? Why keep on that track?

Apparently you're the one with the "conditioned political response". Why do you continually refer to diplomacy as appeasement? CAN YOU READ? And have you ever heard of saber rattling, the definition of what Drumpf is doing?

PkrBum

PkrBum

Ok... y'all seem to think that lil un fuc wouldn't have done his bs this year were Hillary potus. Rolling Eyes

HAHAHAHA... just wow.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


SABER-RATTLING

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

PkrBum wrote:Ok... y'all seem to think that lil un fuc wouldn't have done his bs this year were Hillary potus.  Rolling Eyes

HAHAHAHA... just wow.

She probably would have just bought him off ... as we've done with his daddy & his grand-pappy for decades.

That's all he wants anyway.  To stay in power & have his regime subsidized.  The best way for an outcast 2nd or 3rd world country to get themselves some attention from the first-world is to get some nukes and/or missiles and threaten some nearby neighbor.   Look at how much attention Iran gets ... they just keep us all a-dither with what they're doing .... do you think we would care so much if they had no missiles or potential to develop nukes?  Nobody would give much of a crap about them otherwise .. .except for Euro access to their their oil & gas resources for cheap.   Don't think N. Korea hasn't noticed that little fact.

I say we lease S. Korea and Japan 1 each trident nuclear sub, locked & loaded, for ... oh, I don't know, say 10 billion dollars a year each?   Then we just walk away from the whole thing.   Mutually assured destruction (MAD) has worked quite well for us & the Soviets for 50+ years ... I don't see any reason it can't work for those three countries.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:Yet you have no blame for the appeasement over the last 30 years during the nk nuclear buildup.

That's either very strange or a conditioned political response. Which is it? Why keep on that track?

Describe the "appeasement" you're whining about. The choice was the same as now -- diplomacy and deals, or war. What should we have done? If we had chosen war we most likely would have pissed off
China and Russia.

Let me try and put the situation in terms you may be able to grasp: Imagine a 6'6" stout, musclebound cowboy with a six gun waiting out in the street in front of the saloon.

Now imagine a 5' little cowboy with his own six gun, moving out in the street to challenge the big guy.

Both opponents have six guns. Until the shooting starts, both are equal.

Get the picture yet? One nuke on Washington, D.C. and our government is gone. One on Houston and we have no oil distribution or refining capability. One on Atlanta and Atlanta is ashes.

Pink mist my ass.

PkrBum

PkrBum

Wordslinger wrote:Describe the "appeasement" you're whining about. 

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Describe the "appeasement" you're whining about. 


Tell me your opinion of what Clinton should have done ... Now tell me your opinion of what Trump should do now?

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

I hear marijuana is legal and it's usage quite common in North Korea ... even among the military. Lord knows those poor people need to catch some kind of a break.

bigdog



I'd love to see a discussion on TV with the rules obeyed.
I'd love to see a tweet war between conservatives and liberals with the rules obeyed.
I'd love to post the truth on this forum and see the rules obeyed.

By "the rules," I mean that when you are discussing the actions of an individual who happens to be President of the United States, you should not go back and attempt to divert the discussion to the actions of a previous POTUS that you think did something similarly bad.
Each president gets to stand on his own. The buck stops with him. What Bill Clinton did, or George W Bush did, or even what Barack obama did when they were presidents, cannot be used to excuse  ANYTHING that Donald J Trump does during his tenure in office. The same with each of them. They were grown men and leaders of the free world. They made their own decisions. So when Trump starts WWIII with his posing and threatening and lies, he doesn't get to blame it on Obama's weakness, or Clinton's weakness, or George W's stupidity and weakness.
Defend the 2017 President of the US by explaining WHY what he is doing is right and don't change the subject. Republicans are totally incapable of that. They know nothing Trump has done is defensible, so they drag out Hillary and Uranium or Obama and North Korea. Pkr's not fooling anybody with his diversions  and it's really tiresome and old.  And by the way, you won't find a single post by me during the 8 years Obama was in office defending his moves in the Middle East either, nor his maintaining Gitmo, nor any of the other times he caved in to the right wingers because he was a lazy damn POTUS in so many ways. On the whole, Dems criticize their party members when they don't like them. Note all the Bernie people who wouldn't vote for Hillary. But when the Repugs nominated the Donald, even after so many people said they could NEVER vote for him, he somehow got enough votes to get into the White House. They lied. He was a Republican so all the church folk decided a womanizing adulterer, a serial liar, a bankrupt and crooked businessman, and a pussy grabber was better than anything with a D behind their name. And they are fixing to do the same thing in Alabama. Democrats are NOT a single minded party that fall in line and accept our leaders every decision- that's Pkr's side he's talking about, not us.



Last edited by bigdog on 12/2/2017, 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

PkrBum

PkrBum

I'm doing what every leftist... all the way up to Obama... did for every given problem during his terms.

Are we playing by a different set of rules now?

It's going to be like this with every president now. The goal of each party will be to destroy the other.

bigdog



Oh no, I realize there aren't any rules on this forum or in any discussion where you Republicans have to twist your brains into pretzels in order to try and explain the actions of this president. The only thing you CAN do is try to say that two failures in the past equal a success in the present. There's no other possible game plan you can follow, because Donald Trump is so completely indefensible.
Show me where Obama criticized George W Bush for the mess he made in the middle east. Show me a link to where he criticized a previous president while he was in the White House, and I'll admit that we Democrats always blame stuff on the previous administrations.

Get you a snack while you search the internet for that little tidbit, because it's going to be a LONG search. It would take about 60 seconds to find somewhere that Trump and the Republicans have criticized Obama for EVERYTHING that is wrong in America. And if they don't criticize Obama, they jump on Hillary Clinton who was never president for a single day.
The 2 parties are not alike, there is s difference. The lie is the one your folks have been spreading to keep folks from voting that all politicians are the same and both parties are the same.
I'll tell you this much-There may not be a single issue that will bring young people out to vote that your party has stepped on hard enough so far, but if they screw around with net neutrality, there will be a Democratic landslide in 2018 the likes of which this country has never experienced. Just wait and see.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

bigdog wrote: ..... What Bill Clinton did, or George W Bush did, or even what Barack obama did when they were presidents, cannot be used to excuse  ANYTHING that Donald R Trump does during his tenure in office.

Did you think we might get confused as to which Donald Trump you were talking about? Or is the "R" for some kind of emphasis? Like when my mom would use my middle initial calling me to account for some misdeed.

I get it with Bush, what with there having been two of 'em, but if you're gonna do that, ya should have at least been fair-minded about the whole thing and written "William J Clinton" tongue Smile

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

bigdog wrote: The only thing you CAN do is try to say that two failures in the past equal a success in the present.   

Well if Bruce Jenner can be a lady and now we're all required to act as though he really is and refer to him as her, I don't see why not?   I think it has something to do with that "new math."   Smile

(Uh, oh ... now I'm gonna get in trouble with somebody for poking fun at the transgenders. Yes ... I did see Transparent. Kevin Spacey's performance was rather excellent I thought.)

bigdog



EmeraldGhost wrote:
bigdog wrote: ..... What Bill Clinton did, or George W Bush did, or even what Barack obama did when they were presidents, cannot be used to excuse  ANYTHING that Donald R Trump does during his tenure in office.

Did you think we might get confused as to which Donald Trump you were talking about?   Or is the "R" for some kind of emphasis?   Like when my mom would use my middle initial calling me to account for some misdeed.

I get it with Bush, what with there having been two of 'em, but if you're gonna do that, ya should have at least been fair-minded about the whole thing and written "William J Clinton"       tongue   Smile



Nah, I'm not that devious. Just a typo. It could have stood for reprobate though. I edited it to the proper J for jerk-off.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

bigdog wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
bigdog wrote: ..... What Bill Clinton did, or George W Bush did, or even what Barack obama did when they were presidents, cannot be used to excuse  ANYTHING that Donald R Trump does during his tenure in office.

Did you think we might get confused as to which Donald Trump you were talking about?   Or is the "R" for some kind of emphasis?   Like when my mom would use my middle initial calling me to account for some misdeed.

I get it with Bush, what with there having been two of 'em, but if you're gonna do that, ya should have at least been fair-minded about the whole thing and written "William J Clinton"       tongue   Smile


Nah, I'm not that devious. Just a typo. It could have stood for reprobate though. I edited it to the proper J for jerk-off.

I think you might have slighted Obama too by capitalizing his given name but not his surname.  You must be a racist.

bigdog



Okay-Now I am confused. Transparent the TV series has Jeffery Tambor in it. Was Kevin Spacey ever in the show as a guest or something? I honestly never watched it-I have way too opinions for my brain to hold about the transgender situation so I try to avoid thinking about it. I really don't like to argue with myself. I've offended both my snowflake side and my redneck side on the subject and it's not healthy.

or were you talking about Spacey being sneakily gay?
It really hasn't been much of a secret for years- he took his mother to awards shows and the rumors were pretty loud. He's a great actor and I can't bring myself to hate him, no matter what. I tried. I just feel sorry for him. His brother said their dad sexually abused both of them. That kind of crap is great fertilizer for growing an amazing actor, but not a very happy person.
What I hate is thinking about the scene in Pay it Forward when he talks about his father abusing him and realizing he might not have had to act to play it. That's really sad.

bigdog



Oh, don't tell me I'm a racist for not capitalizing Obama. Now my snowflake side is making the same accusations against my redneck side and then what if the redneck side hits back.
I've got to sleep sometime tonight.

My hurricanes are looking as horrible on TV tonight as my Dolphins do every week.
But the ARGOS won today. And I'm a UWF grad so I shouldn't give a damn about any of these other teams anyway.

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