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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » John Kelly's Press Briefing Was Shameful

John Kelly's Press Briefing Was Shameful

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bigdog
2seaoat
Sal
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Sal

Sal

His attempt to turn people's disgust at Trump's inexcusable actions in recent days into an attack on military service is disgusting.

Trump is toxic.

Everything and everyone he comes into contact with turns to shit.

John Kelly can go fuck himself.

2seaoat



The worship of the military is the worship of war. War is evil. To hate war and the evil it unleashes is not irrational. It is the only rational choice to hate war, and work to reduce military influence in modern life. Millions of innocents have died without cause at the hands of military force. To resist the expansion of the military and their influence in American life is the only moral choice, the rest is simply the worship of evil and false idols which seek uniform submission.

bigdog



I agree. Trump sacrifices the honor of everyone that tries to serve him. Kelly's press conference was demeaning to the memory of his own son. His argument, in front of a microphone in a national news conference, was that people shouldn't politicize gold star families. . And his comments about Gold Star families no longer being respected after the conventions was the most outrageous part of it all. It was Trump himself who disrespected that family, and Kelly was standing there trying to make it sound like the democrats were to blame. Unbelievable.
Does he think we all have amnesia?

I'm pretty old but I don't like people disrespecting my mental facilities. I'm not there yet.

bigdog



Seaoat-don't know if you've ever had the chance to visit the FDR memorial in DC, but it's one of the best of all the memorials there.  On each of the walls that you walk through is a saying of FDR's, and when you said "I HATE WAR," it reminded me that those words were carved there on that monument in the section where the waters of the fountains are the most turbulent.
It would be nice to have the likes of an FDR around today to guide us out of this period of division and hate this country is in.
One of the other things about that monument that impressed me was that it is the only one in Washington where people are welcome to take their shoes off and wade in the fountains to cool their tired feet.
Actually, it isn't one of the best monuments in DC, it's the best. And it is, appropriately, right next door to the MLK monument.

PkrBum

PkrBum

"The worship of the military is the worship of war. War is evil. To hate war and the evil it unleashes is not irrational. It is the only rational choice to hate war, and work to reduce military influence in modern life. Millions of innocents have died without cause at the hands of military force. To resist the expansion of the military and their influence in American life is the only moral choice, the rest is simply the worship of evil and false idols which seek uniform submission."

It's not about you... or your politics. You give trump a run for his money.

2seaoat



Disdain for war and all those who pretend that there are "military options" when the last 75 years has shown that war is evil, propagated by fools and profit, each dependent on the other.

Sal

Sal

What he said ....

Lost in the storm and anguish over John Kelly’s attacks today was a sobering reality. The ideological and rhetorical spine of his remarks was a paean to MAGA. The old days were good. We had real religion. Things were right with women. There was no abortion. Honor was sacred and respected. Now it’s all crap because of people like Congresswoman Frederica Wilson (D), a showboater from Florida who transgressed our last sacred space.

Kelly’s words …

"It stuns me that a member of Congress would have listened in on that conversation. Absolutely stuns me. And I thought at least that was sacred. You know, when I was a kid growing up, a lot of things were sacred in our country. Women were sacred, looked upon with great honor. That’s obviously not the case anymore as we see from recent cases. Life — the dignity of life — is sacred. That’s gone. Religion, that seems to be gone as well.

Gold Star families, I think that left in the convention over the summer. But I just thought — the selfless devotion that brings a man or woman to die on the battlefield, I just thought that that might be sacred."

That is the ideological spine. The rhetorical spine of his remarks was even clearer. Attacks on President Trump are attacks on the sanctity of heroism and patriotic sacrifice itself. Again, attacking President Trump is attacking the troops. It’s the same maneuver driving Trump’s war on the NFL. Kneeling during the national anthem to protest racism and police misconduct really isn’t about police brutality or racism it all. It’s spitting on the sacrifice of American soldiers.

How whipsawed must someone who was aghast at President Trump’s lying about former Presidents and failure even to note the deaths of these four soldiers be to learn that they were in fact dishonoring military service and sacrifice and failing to respect the President who, in Kelly’s words, “very bravely does make those calls.”

Underneath this logic is a belief which Kelly actually stated much more clearly than most are willing to do. We don’t just owe respect to people who serve in the military. They are actually better than us civilians.

Kelly’s words …

"We don’t look down upon those of you who that haven’t served. In fact, in a way we’re a little bit sorry because you’ll have never have experienced the wonderful joy you get in your heart when you do the kinds of things our service men and women do — not for any other reason than they love this country. So just think of that."

Kelly made a similar point when he refused to take questions from any reporter who was not either from a Gold Star family themselves or personally knew someone who was. You may not even deserve your civic freedoms, the right to talk, to ask question, unless you are near to military sacrifice.

Just what Kelly was saying wasn’t clear on first blush because he’s not a phony and a clown like President Trump – an unchurched libertine and draft dodger who wraps himself in traditionalism and military glory. If you’re eyes are open Trump is a joke against himself. Kelly is a bonafide general officer and combat veteran. When he speaks about military sacrifice we listen. We should. He speaks with some authority, from experience, unlike the President.

But his script turned out to be pure MAGA, pure Trumpism, in some ways more potent because it was wrapped in a lifetime of service but still no less odious.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/general-kellys-paean-to-maga

Fuck you, John Kelly.

2seaoat



Our founding fathers fully understood a military and a standing army can stand in the way of a free people where liberty and democracy are cherished. We have become a fascist military society where simply joining a mercenary military somehow makes that segment of a free society superior. It is a joke. It is just the idea of misfits collectively causing death and destruction around the world and to keep the insane budgetary requirements to feed this monster the propaganda machines are in over drive.

Spent the time to look up Oswald's background after a military misfit on this forum declared who Oswald was......he was a marine who joined because he had no other options. These folks who join our mercenary military want some fairy dust to change who they were when they joined, and spend a life time thinking any free citizens who interfere with the budget process to feed this monster are incapable being a good American citizen unless they worship the fantasy.....that war has been necessary the last seventy plus years to defend America....it has not as our budget continues to consume America's wealth while the White House looks like a military coup has been executed. We cannot solve America's problems until America reduces the Military across the board and restores democracy from Military domination.

PkrBum

PkrBum

Fuck you... no skin in the game and gladly politicizing the issue.

knothead

knothead

Sal wrote:What he said ....

Lost in the storm and anguish over John Kelly’s attacks today was a sobering reality. The ideological and rhetorical spine of his remarks was a paean to MAGA. The old days were good. We had real religion. Things were right with women. There was no abortion. Honor was sacred and respected. Now it’s all crap because of people like Congresswoman Frederica Wilson (D), a showboater from Florida who transgressed our last sacred space.

Kelly’s words …

   "It stuns me that a member of Congress would have listened in on that conversation. Absolutely stuns me. And I thought at least that was sacred. You know, when I was a kid growing up, a lot of things were sacred in our country. Women were sacred, looked upon with great honor. That’s obviously not the case anymore as we see from recent cases. Life — the dignity of life — is sacred. That’s gone. Religion, that seems to be gone as well.

   Gold Star families, I think that left in the convention over the summer. But I just thought — the selfless devotion that brings a man or woman to die on the battlefield, I just thought that that might be sacred."

That is the ideological spine. The rhetorical spine of his remarks was even clearer. Attacks on President Trump are attacks on the sanctity of heroism and patriotic sacrifice itself. Again, attacking President Trump is attacking the troops. It’s the same maneuver driving Trump’s war on the NFL. Kneeling during the national anthem to protest racism and police misconduct really isn’t about police brutality or racism it all. It’s spitting on the sacrifice of American soldiers.

How whipsawed must someone who was aghast at President Trump’s lying about former Presidents and failure even to note the deaths of these four soldiers be to learn that they were in fact dishonoring military service and sacrifice and failing to respect the President who, in Kelly’s words, “very bravely does make those calls.”

Underneath this logic is a belief which Kelly actually stated much more clearly than most are willing to do. We don’t just owe respect to people who serve in the military. They are actually better than us civilians.

Kelly’s words …

   "We don’t look down upon those of you who that haven’t served. In fact, in a way we’re a little bit sorry because you’ll have never have experienced the wonderful joy you get in your heart when you do the kinds of things our service men and women do — not for any other reason than they love this country. So just think of that."

Kelly made a similar point when he refused to take questions from any reporter who was not either from a Gold Star family themselves or personally knew someone who was. You may not even deserve your civic freedoms, the right to talk, to ask question, unless you are near to military sacrifice.

Just what Kelly was saying wasn’t clear on first blush because he’s not a phony and a clown like President Trump – an unchurched libertine and draft dodger who wraps himself in traditionalism and military glory. If you’re eyes are open Trump is a joke against himself. Kelly is a bonafide general officer and combat veteran. When he speaks about military sacrifice we listen. We should. He speaks with some authority, from experience, unlike the President.

But his script turned out to be pure MAGA, pure Trumpism, in some ways more potent because it was wrapped in a lifetime of service but still no less odious.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/general-kellys-paean-to-maga

Fuck you, John Kelly.

First, thanks for posting this Sal as it is a well written analysis. I will only add one thing that was not addressed: the reason for the brouhaha over Trump's lame attempt to console a Gold Star family is a very simple one and one we all know and recognize . . . . he has no empathy but more importantly he has no moral or ethical standing . . . .  none . . . . . the same tact coming from General Kelly resonate but coming from Trump insincere and/or inauthentic insincere . . . . he has no standing whatsoever to speak on the subject, period.



Last edited by knothead on 10/20/2017, 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

2seaoat



You do not need standing to speak on the subject. That is exactly why this country is in the difficult position of having a military commandeering our democracy. Every citizen's right to be critical of the militarization of America and one does not have to lose a family member in the Military to have the status to be an American citizen. The tail is wagging the dog, and it is time to take back this country.

bigdog



Does everyone really think that every American POTUS has phoned or written a personal letter to the parents of fallen soldiers? Honest to God, if FDR or Woodrow Wilson or even Lyndon Johnson had the time to phone the parents of every soldier who died in the wars they oversaw, well, they obviously would have never gotten a single other thing done.
Maybe Lincoln did it, I saw a letter of his on cNN, but I can't imagine even him writing all the letters himself.

The discussion is a very stupid one. Secretaries write most letters for presidents and either auto sign them or the POTUS signs them himself. It has nothing to do with how the POTUS feels about the soldiers who fall on the field of battle. If they really cared, they wouldn't send our guys to secret wars in Niger that Americans didn't even know we were in. And yeah, it was probably Obama who sent them there. Quite frankly, he was as good a POTUS as the Repugs could have ever asked for. They would have loved him except for the D behind his name and that skin tone problem they feel that he has.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

knothead wrote:
Sal wrote:What he said ....

Lost in the storm and anguish over John Kelly’s attacks today was a sobering reality. The ideological and rhetorical spine of his remarks was a paean to MAGA. The old days were good. We had real religion. Things were right with women. There was no abortion. Honor was sacred and respected. Now it’s all crap because of people like Congresswoman Frederica Wilson (D), a showboater from Florida who transgressed our last sacred space.

Kelly’s words …

   "It stuns me that a member of Congress would have listened in on that conversation. Absolutely stuns me. And I thought at least that was sacred. You know, when I was a kid growing up, a lot of things were sacred in our country. Women were sacred, looked upon with great honor. That’s obviously not the case anymore as we see from recent cases. Life — the dignity of life — is sacred. That’s gone. Religion, that seems to be gone as well.

   Gold Star families, I think that left in the convention over the summer. But I just thought — the selfless devotion that brings a man or woman to die on the battlefield, I just thought that that might be sacred."

That is the ideological spine. The rhetorical spine of his remarks was even clearer. Attacks on President Trump are attacks on the sanctity of heroism and patriotic sacrifice itself. Again, attacking President Trump is attacking the troops. It’s the same maneuver driving Trump’s war on the NFL. Kneeling during the national anthem to protest racism and police misconduct really isn’t about police brutality or racism it all. It’s spitting on the sacrifice of American soldiers.

How whipsawed must someone who was aghast at President Trump’s lying about former Presidents and failure even to note the deaths of these four soldiers be to learn that they were in fact dishonoring military service and sacrifice and failing to respect the President who, in Kelly’s words, “very bravely does make those calls.”

Underneath this logic is a belief which Kelly actually stated much more clearly than most are willing to do. We don’t just owe respect to people who serve in the military. They are actually better than us civilians.

Kelly’s words …

   "We don’t look down upon those of you who that haven’t served. In fact, in a way we’re a little bit sorry because you’ll have never have experienced the wonderful joy you get in your heart when you do the kinds of things our service men and women do — not for any other reason than they love this country. So just think of that."

Kelly made a similar point when he refused to take questions from any reporter who was not either from a Gold Star family themselves or personally knew someone who was. You may not even deserve your civic freedoms, the right to talk, to ask question, unless you are near to military sacrifice.

Just what Kelly was saying wasn’t clear on first blush because he’s not a phony and a clown like President Trump – an unchurched libertine and draft dodger who wraps himself in traditionalism and military glory. If you’re eyes are open Trump is a joke against himself. Kelly is a bonafide general officer and combat veteran. When he speaks about military sacrifice we listen. We should. He speaks with some authority, from experience, unlike the President.

But his script turned out to be pure MAGA, pure Trumpism, in some ways more potent because it was wrapped in a lifetime of service but still no less odious.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/general-kellys-paean-to-maga

Fuck you, John Kelly.

First, thanks for posting this Sal as it is a well written analysis. I will only add one thing that was not addressed: the reason for the brouhaha over Trump's lame attempt to console a Gold Star family is a very simple one and one we all know and recognize . . . . he has no empathy but more importantly he has no moral or ethical standing . . . .  none . . . . . the same tact coming from General Kelly resonate but coming from Trump sound to any rational person sound unauthentic and insincere . . . . he has no standing to speak on the subject, period.  

A couple of things about this latest Trump created dust up bother me. Not necessarily in order of importance. It bothers me that General Kelly was offended that the conversation between POTUS and the family was listened in on by others. Has he never been in a car with a speaker phone? I mean everyone in the car cannot help but hear the conversation. I think his being upset over this was misplaced. He made it sound like an intrusion on the sacred condolences being offered, which I don't think it was.

Also, there are so many factors that affect how a communication is interpreted, tone of voice, body language (if face to face), volume, timing etc. You all know Trump turns my stomach so I'm not sticking up for him by any means but given his track record of horrible comments over a wide range of topics it does not surprise me at all that his words to the family could have been felt as being disrespectful and flippant.

He could have fixed THAT problem by calling them back and apologizing for the misunderstanding, by assuring them of his sincere regrets over the snafu and extending his condolences but of course we know this is not in his nature. His first and default setting in every circumstance is to hit back. He did that by denying he said anything of the kind (even after Kelly explained why he had said exactly what the family said he had said), accusing the congresswoman of lying, saying he had "proof" that he had not said those things and threatening the congresswoman with some sort of retaliation.

Other than that he did a terrific job of making a bad situation worse. As usual.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

2seaoat wrote:You do not need standing to speak on the subject.  That is exactly why this country is in the difficult position of having a military commandeering our democracy.  Every citizen's right to be critical of the militarization of America and one does not have to lose a family member in the Military to have the status to be an American citizen.  The tail is wagging the dog, and it is time to take back this country.  

At this particular point in time I am not unhappy that there are a few level headed people surrounding the disgrace that is the current occupant of the White House. As Senator Corker said last week, they are standing between us and chaos. I see these few military men as the protective coating on a poison pill.

I'm no fan of the MIC and the big money behind it but right now I'd rather have these generals next to our Problem in Chief than say Steve Bannon. (Okay, I know he talks to Bannon on the phone, but still I think this is all we can hope for until some other mechanism is initiated to remove him permanently.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

As happy as I am to have some stable folks minding the president we need to keep in mind that the military is governed by civilians, not the other way around. Sanders, in her news conference got way out of bounds on this detail. Here are a few comments from the Reliable Sources New Letter from CNN's Brian Stelter.

Sixteen days since the ambush...
"It only got worse today," Anthony Mason said on the "CBS Evening News."

ABC's Mary Bruce: "The week ended the same way it began -- with questions about why President Trump still hasn't addressed the ambush in Niger."

NBC's Peter Alexander: "The White House tonight trying to SILENCE the critics."

Let's talk about that...
"Highly inappropriate"
This was the intro to Erin Burnett's CNN program Friday night: "A military dictatorship. That appears to be what the White House thinks the United States is. Today, when pressed about false statements made by chief of staff General John Kelly about Congresswoman Frederica Wilson, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said it's inappropriate to question a four-star general."
Hat tip to Chip Reid
It was CBS's Chip Reid who questioned Sanders about Kelly's errors, asked "Can he come out here to talk to us about this?" and then bluntly said, "he was wrong yesterday." That's what led Sanders to say this: "If you want to get into a debate with a four-star Marine general, I think that is something highly inappropriate."

You could hear the shock in the voices of some anchors and guests afterward. Jake Tapper called it "one of the most shocking things I've ever heard from that podium." An hour later Senator Lindsey Graham was asked if he agreed with Sanders, and he said, "No, not in America." CNN.com has a similar headline directed to Sanders right now: "That's not how democracy works."

PkrBum

PkrBum

Benghazi is the gold standard of the most transparent admin in history. Expect the same treatment.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

PkrBum wrote:Benghazi is the gold standard of the most transparent admin in history. Expect the same treatment.

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