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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » How does it feel to not be the leader of the Free World anymore?

How does it feel to not be the leader of the Free World anymore?

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VectorMan
Telstar
del.capslock
Joanimaroni
othershoe1030
9 posters

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othershoe1030

othershoe1030

It is one thing to want to put "America First". There is a nice ring to it in a way but what are the assumptions that go along with this idea?

America is first when it is leading other like-minded nations. America first is not America alone.

Trump has disrespected our established associations with members of NATO and the EU. He is congratulating and cuddling up to every strongman anti-democratic thug on the planet. Trump has put us in a very odd position.

I think this weakens governments that have stood for rule of law and democracy, and to what end? This is the question we need to ask.

As a total neophyte to governing he has no political philosophy. He is a chameleon of the worst order. My personal evaluation of the man is that he thought the job of president would be easier than his job as real estate developer. He has said as much in interviews. He is mystified that the job is so demanding. I think he is now in it for personal profit.

Putin is at this point accomplishing his goal of weakening the western alliances. He is putting Russia back on the stage as a world power rather than a regional power. IMO Putin has Trump by the purse strings and perhaps in other ways as well.

This is the worst, most dangerous position I have ever seen our country in. I only hope that whoever comes in to clean up this mess after the GOP gets done with it can reestablish the United States as leader of the free world because as of today we no longer hold that title. I do not advocate that we hold the title for the sake of holding it but without strong leadership the West is turning over power to those who do not respect human rights but only crave power and order. Perhaps Germany will fill the void? Or will it be Putin?

“The short-sighted policies of the American government stand against the interests of the European Union,” he said, judging that “the west has become smaller, at least it has become weaker”.

“We Europeans must fight for more climate protection, fewer weapons and against religious [fanaticism], otherwise the Middle East and Africa will be further destabilised,” Gabriel said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/30/germany-steps-up-attack-on-trump-for-weakening-the-west

Guest


Guest

I didn't hear whining when Obama pressured NATO members to do their fair share. I also don't think it's bad to demand that the US be treated fairly in trade and agreements. Basically the opposite of Obama's Iran "deal". The Obama foreign policy was weak sauce... i have no problem undoing that in general.

What i wish is that he started pulling foreign military bases and aide unless the country demonstrates loyalty and/or compensation. It's ridiculous to keep giving away the farm when were 20T in debt.

It's also funny that you can equate Obama's leading from behind bs to being the leader of the free world.

He was pillsbury soft.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:I didn't hear whining when Obama pressured NATO members to do their fair share. I also don't think it's bad to demand that the US be treated fairly in trade and agreements. Basically the opposite of Obama's Iran "deal". The Obama foreign policy was weak sauce... i have no problem undoing that in general.

What i wish is that he started pulling foreign military bases and aide unless the country demonstrates loyalty and/or compensation. It's ridiculous to keep giving away the farm when were 20T in debt.

It's also funny that you can equate Obama's leading from behind bs to being the leader of the free world.

He was pillsbury soft.

So you're proud that our 45th president has sided with as many autocratic thugs as he can get his hands on? You are happy that he praises Putin? You are overjoyed that he has apparently (we don't know for sure yet) let the rest of the developed nations pledge to address climate change while we stand impotently by? How is that leading from behind or otherwise? Are you glad to see Merkel taking over the leadership of the free world?

Trump has no problem badmouthing NATO, which pleases Putin to no end.

Only in America could we elect a con man like Trump. He has a reputation for not paying people what he owes the. He then goes abroad and LECTURES TO OTHERS ABOUT THE MORALITY of paying their fair share. It boggles the mind.

There was a reason(s) why Putin wanted his boy Donald in the WH. He is performing well for the Russians. Don't "comrade" the left, it's the WH that's in bed with the Russians.

Guest


Guest

The Russian thing is exaggerated at best... simply a dnc construct at worst. There's no proof of Russian hacking beyond the dnc saying there was... which doesn't outweigh a grain off salt in my book.

Was Russia an issue when Obama downplayed their significance during 2012 debate? Could he have been more wrong? What did Russia accomplish during the Obama years? They looked to do as they please to me. Obama also tried to exert pressure on NATO to contribute more... what was that result?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/obama-nato-pay-fair-share-231405


Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

PkrBum[b] wrote:The Russian thing is exaggerated at best... simply a dnc construct at worst. There's no proof of Russian hacking beyond the dnc saying there was... which doesn't outweigh a grain off salt in my book.[/b]

Was Russia an issue when Obama downplayed their significance during 2012 debate? Could he have been more wrong? What did Russia accomplish during the Obama years? They looked to do as they please to me. Obama also tried to exert pressure on NATO to contribute more... what was that result?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/obama-nato-pay-fair-share-231405



You are so right. How many democrats had talks with the Russians prior to the elections? If Hillary could have gained their support, she would have in a New York minute.

del.capslock

del.capslock

How does it feel to not be the leader of the Free World anymore? Sub-buzz-17643-1496172965-3

There's a longish article that goes with this image and it's worth a read since First Amendment issues are addressed. Here's the link, if you're interested:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/kathy-griffin-severed-trump-head?utm_term=.sed8YklV2#.mndVK53y6

http://www.flickr.com/photos/btraven/

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:The Russian thing is exaggerated at best... simply a dnc construct at worst. There's no proof of Russian hacking beyond the dnc saying there was... which doesn't outweigh a grain off salt in my book.


Good flying grief all mighty!! What rock have you been living under these last few months? Seriously this is the most mind blowing tin foil hat post I can ever remember seeing on this forum and that's going some.

If you feel better by denying that the Russian "thing" is something just made up by the dnc, that there was no hacking, that there was no Russian influence in our last presidential election, that they did not use social media to spread false stories about Hillary then you may as well just stop posting on a forum that discusses politics because you are clearly on another planet.

Why are you interested in this forum? How can you possibly be expected to be taken even half way seriously when you post such astounding drivel?

The pasted news story, what is shown here is but the beginning of a lengthy article describing the findings of the three agencies, CIA, FBI and NSA that signed off on it.





The office of the director of national intelligence on Friday released a long-awaited unclassified version of its report for President Obama on what the intelligence agencies said was a multifaceted attempt to influence the 2016 presidential election. The report included only the agencies’ conclusions, not the actual intelligence or technical information on which they were based.

Here are some major findings, with comments by The New York Times. The full report is available here.

A strong statement from three intelligence agencies.
How does it feel to not be the leader of the Free World anymore? 07RUSSIA-TEAR1-blog427

• In unequivocal language, the report pins responsibility for the election attack directly on President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, ruling out the possibility that it was ordered by intelligence officials or simply carried out by Kremlin supporters.

• United States officials believe Mr. Putin wants to damage the image of American democracy to make it less attractive to Russians and their neighbors.


Russia took sides in the U.S. election.

How does it feel to not be the leader of the Free World anymore? 07RUSSIA-TEAR2-master675

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/us/politics/russian-hack-report.html

Link to full declassified report:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/06/us/politics/document-russia-hacking-report-intelligence-agencies.html

Guest


Guest

I guess we can't be an influence for truth, justice and peace forever. Sad

Telstar

Telstar

panhandler wrote:I guess we can't be an influence for truth, justice and peace forever. Sad






Not even the American Way under president cancer's rule. Sad

Guest


Guest

March 20, 2017: Then-FBI Director Comey and NSA Director Rogers appear before the House Intelligence Committee.

HURD: Have you been able to -- when did the DNC provide access for -- to the FBI for your technical folks to review what happened?

COMEY: Well we never got direct access to the machines themselves. The DNC in the spring of 2016 hired a firm that ultimately shared with us their forensics from their review of the system.

HURD: Director Rogers, did the NSA ever get access to the DNC hardware?

ROGERS: The NSA didn't ask for access. That's not in our job...

HURD: ... So director FBI notified the DNC early, before any information was put on Wikileaks and when -- you have still been -- never been given access to any of the technical or the physical machines that were -- that were hacked by the Russians.

COMEY: That's correct although we got the forensics from the pros that they hired which -- again, best practice is always to get access to the machines themselves, but this -- my folks tell me was an appropriate substitute.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:March 20, 2017: Then-FBI Director Comey and NSA Director Rogers appear before the House Intelligence Committee.

HURD: Have you been able to -- when did the DNC provide access for -- to the FBI for your technical folks to review what happened?

COMEY: Well we never got direct access to the machines themselves. The DNC in the spring of 2016 hired a firm that ultimately shared with us their forensics from their review of the system.

HURD: Director Rogers, did the NSA ever get access to the DNC hardware?

ROGERS: The NSA didn't ask for access. That's not in our job...

HURD: ... So director FBI notified the DNC early, before any information was put on Wikileaks and when -- you have still been -- never been given access to any of the technical or the physical machines that were -- that were hacked by the Russians.

COMEY: That's correct although we got the forensics from the pros that they hired which -- again, best practice is always to get access to the machines themselves, but this -- my folks tell me was an appropriate substitute.

I do not think that the DNC, after having been hacked by Russians and having their documents spread to the media via wiki-leaks would be in the mood to then turn their hardware over to the FBI where more people could paw through their internal documents.  

As you can see from this article it is not difficult to determine that the Russians were behind the hacking without having physical access to the computers.

Reuters
Jan 05, 2017
(WASHINGTON) — The CIA has identified Russian officials who fed material hacked from the Democratic National Committee and party leaders to Wikileaks at the direction of Russian President Vladimir Putin through third parties, according to a new U.S. intelligence report, senior U.S. officials said on Thursday.
The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the Central Intelligence Agency and others have concluded that the Russian government escalated its efforts from discrediting the U.S. election process to assisting President-elect Donald Trump's campaign.
Trump has rejected the broad intelligence community's assessment that Russia staged cyber attacks during


Details of the report emerged as the top U.S. intelligence official, James Clapper, said on Thursday he was "even more resolute" in his belief that Russia staged cyber attacks on Democrats during the 2016 election campaign.

One such example, the officials said, was that intercepted messages and conversations among senior Russian officials in Putin's inner circle indicated they were aware of the hacking campaign and celebrated Trump's election as a victorious end to the campaign.


Another example of inferential evidence, the officials said, was that as time passed and the early leaks attracted media attention that undermined or eclipsed Clinton's campaign, the Russians increasingly focused their hacking "almost exclusively" on Democratic rather than Republican targets.

There was also strong resemblance -- including the use of the same computer malware -- the Russians have used against targets in Europe and the marriage of traditional espionage tactics used by Soviet and Russian intelligence such as bribery, blackmail and internet vulnerabilities, which they said Putin has devoted increasing resources and attention to exploiting.
For example, one official said, the Democratic databases and email servers the Russians hacked also contained personal information that Wikileaks has not published.Such information could be used to search for financial, medical, browsing history and other records that can be used to target individuals for recruiting efforts by Russian spies.
http://time.com/4625301/cia-russia-wikileaks-dnc-hacking/

VectorMan

VectorMan

You can tell the libs really, really, really want to believe anything that makes Trump look bad, to the point of making things up. Very sad and out of touch with reality. None of them have credibility anymore.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

VectorMan wrote:You can tell the libs really, really, really want to believe anything that makes Trump look bad, to the point of making things up. Very sad and out of touch with reality. None of them have credibility anymore.

You are right vector-man, every day all day on the mainstream media it's nothing but negative comments about President Trump and or his family.

RealLindaL



Joanimaroni wrote:
VectorMan wrote:You can tell the libs really, really, really want to believe anything that makes Trump look bad, to the point of making things up. Very sad and out of touch with reality. None of them have credibility anymore.

 You are right vector-man, every day all day on the mainstream media it's nothing but negative comments about President Trump and or his family.

GUESS WHAT?? THAT'S BECAUSE ALL THE NEGATIVE REPORTS ARE JUSTIFIED!!  SPEAKING OF BEING OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY, YOU PEOPLE DEFINITELY RESIDE IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.

RealLindaL



del.capslock wrote:
There's a longish article that goes with this image and it's worth a read since First Amendment issues are addressed. Here's the link, if you're interested:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/kathy-griffin-severed-trump-head?utm_term=.sed8YklV2#.mndVK53y6

Haven't had a chance to read the article but have not re-copied Griffin's hideous image of a severed Trump head.  That was above and beyond decency, and Griffin has issued a strong apology for it --as well she should have.  There's no need to stoop to that kind of level.



Last edited by RealLindaL on 5/31/2017, 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

Telstar

Telstar

RealLindaL wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
There's a longish article that goes with this image and it's worth a read since First Amendment issues are addressed. Here's the link, if you're interested:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/kathy-griffin-severed-trump-head?utm_term=.sed8YklV2#.mndVK53y6

Haven't had a chance to read the article but have not re-copied griffin's hideous image of a severed Trump head.  That was above and beyond decency, and Griffin has issued a strong apology for it --as well she should have.  There's no need to stoop to that kind of level.




Kind of reminds me of WWE rassler' Al Snow who would make his entrance carrying a woman's head into the ring. There were some complaints about glorifying violence against women but most who did were usually branded as snowflakes.

del.capslock

del.capslock

RealLindaL wrote:
Haven't had a chance to read the article but have not re-copied griffin's hideous image of a severed Trump head.  That was above and beyond decency, and Griffin has issued a strong apology for it --as well she should have.  There's no need to stoop to that kind of level.

Personally, I don't get what all the uproar was about. It was offensive, sure, but so what? It wasn't any more offensive than lots of crap I've read and seen on both ends of the political spectrum in the last year and certainly no worse than a lot of the stuff done during the last administration.

My guess is that the only reason she apologized was because her manager or lawyer told her that this would impact her career, NOT because she was truly sorry for doing it.

I bet the Republican Praetorian Guard got on the phone to bosses in the entertainment industry--Trump was a TV celebrity after all--and told Griffin's lawyer that if she didn't knock that shit off damn quick she was gonna get Dixie Chick-ed so fast it'd make her pussy spin, that by next week she'd be lucky to get a gig in a gay bar in Uganda.

There's a reason for the First Amendment and it's this: INOFFENSIVE SPEECH DOES NOT NEED PROTECTION!

I've lost all respect for her for taking it down.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/btraven/

zsomething



Trump is a moron. He doesn't realize that he's limiting his power by limiting his influence.

Anyone who thinks that what he's doing is in any way "making America great" is an imbecile of the highest magnitude.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

RealLindaL wrote:
Joanimaroni wrote:
VectorMan wrote:You can tell the libs really, really, really want to believe anything that makes Trump look bad, to the point of making things up. Very sad and out of touch with reality. None of them have credibility anymore.

 You are right vector-man, every day all day on the mainstream media it's nothing but negative comments about President Trump and or his family.

GUESS WHAT?? THAT'S BECAUSE ALL THE NEGATIVE REPORTS ARE JUSTIFIED!!  SPEAKING OF BEING OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY, YOU PEOPLE DEFINITELY RESIDE IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.

Get a grip!

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

VectorMan wrote:You can tell the libs really, really, really want to believe anything that makes Trump look bad, to the point of making things up. Very sad and out of touch with reality. None of them have credibility anymore.

Are you referring to the Intelligence Report? Are you saying that the findings by the FBI and CIA have no validity? Are you saying the report is "made up"?

I'm referring to your post #12 where it appears you are responding to my previous post that shows some of the intelligence report.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/politics/the-intelligence-community-report-on-russian-activities-in-the-2016-election/2153/

Telstar

Telstar

Joanimaroni wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:
Joanimaroni wrote:
VectorMan wrote:You can tell the libs really, really, really want to believe anything that makes Trump look bad, to the point of making things up. Very sad and out of touch with reality. None of them have credibility anymore.

 You are right vector-man, every day all day on the mainstream media it's nothing but negative comments about President Trump and or his family.

GUESS WHAT?? THAT'S BECAUSE ALL THE NEGATIVE REPORTS ARE JUSTIFIED!!  SPEAKING OF BEING OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY, YOU PEOPLE DEFINITELY RESIDE IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.

Get a grip!



Rolling Eyes

zsomething



Joanimaroni wrote:
VectorMan wrote:You can tell the libs really, really, really want to believe anything that makes Trump look bad, to the point of making things up. Very sad and out of touch with reality. None of them have credibility anymore.

 You are right vector-man, every day all day on the mainstream media it's nothing but negative comments about President Trump and or his family.

I bet ya'll would wonder why Dennis The Menace's teachers complain about him more than the other kids, too.

It's not that the media are "picking on" Trump... it's just that he does a lot of ridiculous, wrongful stuff and they have to report on it. It's not "bias" when it's the truth. I know you'd like them to cover it up for your convenience, or pretend they're just "making things up," but the facts are the guy's a disaster and he's doing a really, really terrible job and making things worse for this country is just about every conceivable way.

It's one thing to make a mistake voting for an incompetent. It's a worse thing to cling to that choice just to avoid facing facts.

That's part of what's wrong with this country -- people want propaganda that backs up what they already chose to believe, rather than truth. If they were faced with the truth, they might have to feel stupid about the bad choice they made. It's comforting to kill the messenger, maybe, but the downside is that then ya never wise up and keep making the same mistakes.

And you talk about your opposition being out of touch with reality and having no credibility. That's really funny given the tumult of comforting lies you gulp down like a pelican day after day. Whether you want to like him or not, there's no way anyone can realistically claim this presidency is any kind of success... and that's not the fault of the media.

RealLindaL



Telstar wrote:
Joanimaroni wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:
Joanimaroni wrote:
VectorMan wrote:You can tell the libs really, really, really want to believe anything that makes Trump look bad, to the point of making things up. Very sad and out of touch with reality. None of them have credibility anymore.

 You are right vector-man, every day all day on the mainstream media it's nothing but negative comments about President Trump and or his family.

GUESS WHAT?? THAT'S BECAUSE ALL THE NEGATIVE REPORTS ARE JUSTIFIED!!  SPEAKING OF BEING OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY, YOU PEOPLE DEFINITELY RESIDE IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.

Get a grip!


Rolling Eyes

I know, right, Tel?  "Get a grip" coming from Joani is just about the most laughable thing I've read all month.

del.capslock

del.capslock

RealLindaL wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
There's a longish article that goes with this image and it's worth a read since First Amendment issues are addressed. Here's the link, if you're interested:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/kathy-griffin-severed-trump-head?utm_term=.sed8YklV2#.mndVK53y6

Haven't had a chance to read the article but have not re-copied Griffin's hideous image of a severed Trump head.  That was above and beyond decency, and Griffin has issued a strong apology for it --as well she should have.  There's no need to stoop to that kind of level.

"At a time of strong partisan divide, when one side messes up, the other pounces like a bird of prey.

"That happened after comedian Kathy Griffin, who supported Hillary Clinton, posted a 12-second video of her holding what appeared to be President Trump's bloody, severed head. It immediately drew ire from both liberals and conservatives, and by Wednesday, CNN had dropped the comedian from its annual New Year's Eve program, which Griffin has co-hosted with Anderson Cooper since 2007.

"As the backlash against Griffin continues, many on social media have pointed out what they see as a double standard.

"A few times within the past several years, a well-known conservative activist got in hot water over hateful comments about former president Barack Obama. In those instances, though, there was no image of a bloody head; just Ted Nugent's pointed words, some of which prompted a Secret Service investigation. Trump would later host the hard rocker at the White House — a recent memory that many on Twitter brought up in the aftermath of Griffin's controversial post.

"Their cumulative sentiment: Both spewed hatred. Griffin was punished for it. Nugent became a White House guest."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/31/the-right-is-mad-over-kathy-griffins-gruesome-trump-video-the-left-asks-remember-ted-nugent/?utm_term=.9cf23fcb0f6a

http://www.flickr.com/photos/btraven/

Telstar

Telstar

del.capslock wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
There's a longish article that goes with this image and it's worth a read since First Amendment issues are addressed. Here's the link, if you're interested:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/kathy-griffin-severed-trump-head?utm_term=.sed8YklV2#.mndVK53y6

Haven't had a chance to read the article but have not re-copied Griffin's hideous image of a severed Trump head.  That was above and beyond decency, and Griffin has issued a strong apology for it --as well she should have.  There's no need to stoop to that kind of level.

"At a time of strong partisan divide, when one side messes up, the other pounces like a bird of prey.

"That happened after comedian Kathy Griffin, who supported Hillary Clinton, posted a 12-second video of her holding what appeared to be President Trump's bloody, severed head. It immediately drew ire from both liberals and conservatives, and by Wednesday, CNN had dropped the comedian from its annual New Year's Eve program, which Griffin has co-hosted with Anderson Cooper since 2007.

"As the backlash against Griffin continues, many on social media have pointed out what they see as a double standard.

"A few times within the past several years, a well-known conservative activist got in hot water over hateful comments about former president Barack Obama. In those instances, though, there was no image of a bloody head; just Ted Nugent's pointed words, some of which prompted a Secret Service investigation. Trump would later host the hard rocker at the White House — a recent memory that many on Twitter brought up in the aftermath of Griffin's controversial post.

"Their cumulative sentiment: Both spewed hatred. Griffin was punished for it. Nugent became a White House guest."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/31/the-right-is-mad-over-kathy-griffins-gruesome-trump-video-the-left-asks-remember-ted-nugent/?utm_term=.9cf23fcb0f6a



What goes around comes around.


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