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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ...

Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ...

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ZVUGKTUBM
Telstar
Wordslinger
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Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Putin (the richest man in the world and a murderous thug and gangster) can't wait for Trump to seize power in the U.S., and enable Russia to expand its interests in Europe and Asia -- this expounded by Gary Kasparov, world chess champion and former Russian now living in exile in the U.S.  See the link below.

I have a different perspective:  Now that it's been proven Putin ordered the hacking of the DNC and the release of selected materials to Wikileaks, in hopes of harming Clinton's campaign, to many Americans including John McCain, what Russia did was an "act of war."

I agree.  Seeking to diminish our democracy and bestow mistrust in our electoral system IS AN ACT OF WAR.   Whether or not you liked or hate Hillary, you damned well know that Russia's Cyber warfare attack on our political system was wrong.

Clearly, Putin and Russia are our enemy.

If the Pussy Grabber attempts to make an alliance with Putin, that will qualify Trump as a traitor.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that that's exactly what will take place.  So should you!  The very best place for Trump to reside isn't the White House -- it's a federal prison.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-dissident-kasparov-warns-of-a-trump-putin-alliance-210754898.html

Telstar

Telstar

Wordslinger wrote:Putin (the richest man in the world and a murderous thug and gangster) can't wait for Trump to seize power in the U.S., and enable Russia to expand its interests in Europe and Asia -- this expounded by Gary Kasparov, world chess champion and former Russian now living in exile in the U.S.  See the link below.

I have a different perspective:  Now that it's been proven Putin ordered the hacking of the DNC and the release of selected materials to Wikileaks, in hopes of harming Clinton's campaign, to many Americans including John McCain, what Russia did was an "act of war."

I agree.  Seeking to diminish our democracy and bestow mistrust in our electoral system IS AN ACT OF WAR.   Whether or not you liked or hate Hillary, you damned well know that Russia's Cyber warfare attack on our political system was wrong.

Clearly, Putin and Russia are our enemy.

If the Pussy Grabber attempts to make an alliance with Putin, that will qualify Trump as a traitor.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that that's exactly what will take place.  So should you!  The very best place for Trump to reside isn't the White House -- it's a federal prison.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-dissident-kasparov-warns-of-a-trump-putin-alliance-210754898.html

                LOCK HIM UP!

Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ... Trumpj10

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

I actually hope for two things under President Trump.

One is a reduction in tensions with Russia. I know they hacked our servers, etc. However, I am not in favor of re-igniting the Cold War all over again. That was a dark cloud over our nation for decades. I don't want to see that again.

I also hope president Trump rebuild's our nations nuclear forces. In fact, he will. The world is a dangerous place (still), and the concept of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) is still valid. We need work in this area.

Stronger ties between Russia and the U.S. will help offset the power of a burgeoning China.

I am trying to see the big picture. The conflict against the Muslims is a freaky side-show that needs to be ended. If we can work with Russia to stabilize the Middle East, that problem will start to recede.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Guest


Guest

I had similar hopes for the Obama presidency that he would improve the ME dynamics...

so I wouldn't hold your breath.

Telstar

Telstar

So after our new leader Putin smashes the Israeli nukes, he can smash the China nukes and then the North Korean nukes and than the Pakistan nukes and then the India nukes and then...

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:I actually hope for two things under President Trump.

One is a reduction in tensions with Russia. I know they hacked our servers, etc. However, I am not in favor of re-igniting the Cold War all over again. That was a dark cloud over our nation for decades. I don't want to see that again.

I also hope president Trump rebuild's our nations nuclear forces. In fact, he will. The world is a dangerous place (still), and the concept of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) is still valid. We need work in this area.

Stronger ties between Russia and the U.S. will help offset the power of a burgeoning China.

I am trying to see the big picture. The conflict against the Muslims is a freaky side-show that needs to be ended. If we can work with Russia to stabilize the Middle East, that problem will start to recede.


I agree!

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:Putin (the richest man in the world and a murderous thug and gangster) can't wait for Trump to seize power in the U.S., and enable Russia to expand its interests in Europe and Asia -- this expounded by Gary Kasparov, world chess champion and former Russian now living in exile in the U.S.  See the link below.

I have a different perspective:  Now that it's been proven Putin ordered the hacking of the DNC and the release of selected materials to Wikileaks, in hopes of harming Clinton's campaign, to many Americans including John McCain, what Russia did was an "act of war."

I agree.  Seeking to diminish our democracy and bestow mistrust in our electoral system IS AN ACT OF WAR.   Whether or not you liked or hate Hillary, you damned well know that Russia's Cyber warfare attack on our political system was wrong.

Clearly, Putin and Russia are our enemy.

If the Pussy Grabber attempts to make an alliance with Putin, that will qualify Trump as a traitor.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that that's exactly what will take place.  So should you!  The very best place for Trump to reside isn't the White House -- it's a federal prison.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-dissident-kasparov-warns-of-a-trump-putin-alliance-210754898.html

Remember this? What was the message, Hillary conveyed at that time?

Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ... Button

Sal

Sal

Telstar wrote:So after our new leader Putin smashes the Israeli nukes, he can smash the China nukes and then the North Korean nukes and than the Pakistan nukes and then the India nukes and then...


Some people on this forum certainly have a naive perception regarding who Putin is and what Russia is.

A little historical perspective might be helpful.

2seaoat



Putin is no Boy Scout. He is a murderer. However, the United States under President Obama virtually stole the allegiance of the former Baltic States and Ukraine, and helped depose Putin's puppet in Ukraine, and finally forced him to get his naval bases back under his control. It would be similar during our Articles of Confederation period that the British just slipped in the back door and five of the 13 States had governors who were loyal to the British began actively working against the other states.

President Obama and SOS Clinton were very aggressive with the Russians for eight years, and then with sanctions and dropping oil prices virtually bankrupted the nation. I happen to think that Putin cannot be trusted. He wants to reestablish the Soviet Union and has been faced with tough American leadership which hindered his stated goals. Hillary Clinton was a clear and present danger to his ambitions. Whether President elect Trump has some undisclosed relationship with financing or business opportunity with the Russians, there is no doubt that Russia and the Olympic Games showed the world the depth of crony corruption Putin has put in place. Make no mistake he is not in favor of democracy. Make no mistake that given the chance he would crush the Baltic States. Make no mistake that he effortlessly killed civilians in Syria and crushed the uprising, but another cold war is costly and stupid. We need to be removing our bases out of Europe. We need to be removing our bases out of Korea. To do many of these things we need tough leadership with Putin, but the butchmeup show in the senate just wants more war, more military spending, and needs boogey men to keep his MIC sponsors happy. So President elect Trump will need to be very careful with Russia, but it would help now if he would release his tax returns to firmly establish that he is not connected to Putin's corrupt crony partners who are making themselves wealthy by robbing Russia blind.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

We need to be removing our bases out of Korea. 




No way!

2seaoat



No way!

The Chinese hate Kim, but know to undermine him would lead to a unified Korean peninsula with American bases. This is a direct threat to the Chinese. The Chinese would crush Kim if the threat from America was not in the form of 40k military personnel on the Korean Peninsula. In the Korean War the Chinese were very clear. Do not cross the river. We crossed the river and drove us back to the current boundary between the nations. Was it Chinese aggression, or fear of American expansionism. The Chinese were divided up by colonial powers and exploited by the west, and see our presence in Korea differently than the West does. If South Korea cannot defend itself with our help from our bases in Japan, then it will just be dead Americans because our air superiority does not have to be stationed in Korea, nor do we need raw meat for a ground offensive. Rather, the South Koreans need to defend themselves, or as President elect Trump has rightfully suggested pay the tab for the Americans who are cannon fodder in Korea, and who will be sacrificed before our second strike annihilates North Korea, which then would dangerously repeat history with China, but our foe will be a much different China. No, we need to withdraw from the Korean Peninsula and locate our bases in Japan with a much smaller footprint. There will be war between North Korea and America if we are in Japan, or Korea if an invasion happened. I agree with President elect Trump on this issue.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Joanimaroni wrote:We need to be removing our bases out of Korea. No way!

I agree with Joanie here. Trump actually said he was willing to talk to Kim Jong Un. I hope he does. Diplomacy always 'trumps' saber rattling. Perhaps if we can get the round-little Korean dictator to see that we are not going to unilaterally crush his nation (unless he attacks SK or fires a nuke at us or Japan), maybe he will temper his rhetoric a bit.

Ultimately, the best way to defeat North Korea is to allow their people to see how much better-off they would be without their punk dictator. For that to happen, Kim needs to lower his toughness and let the door be cracked open a few millimeters. Or, just unlock the door so we can then surreptitiously break it down.

So, if Trump sits down to talk with Kim Jong Un, I will be the first to stand-up and salute him! He once said he would do it.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni



THE MAGAZINE

Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ... Unknown






ARGUMENT

[size=50][size=62]Donald Trump Doesn’t Understand the Value of U.S. Bases Overseas[/size]

America’s alliances are not only a bargain, they’re vital to projecting power and maintaining global stability.

[/size]

  • BY KATHLEEN H. HICKS, MICHAEL J. GREEN, HEATHER A. CONLEY




Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ... Gettyimages-483032061
For the first time in seven decades, a leading U.S. presidential candidate is fundamentally questioning the usefulness of America’s overseas alliances and forward military presence, calling into question some enduring tenets of U.S. grand strategy. As this debate unsettles our allies in Europe, Asia, and beyond, the American people are asking: Have we been getting a bad international deal all these years? In this case, the answer is simple: The United States gets the better end of the deal from its forward deterrent posture than any other nation, and its value outweighs its current costs. Although U.S. officials often describe the advantages of this policy to our allies, we often neglect to say that this cost-effective policy fully supports and serves U.S. national interests.
Donald Trump, the candidate most critical of America’s alliance relationships, has specifically challenged U.S. policy toward NATO and Japan. Trump has stated that the United States cannot afford its current commitment to NATO. Yet, the United States currently pays only 22 percent of direct NATO spending, with Canada and European allies providing the remaining 78 percent. NATO’s direct cost-sharing arrangement is based on relative GDP among member nations, except in the case of the United States, which actually pays a discounted percent compared to every other NATO ally: U.S. GDP is just under half of the total GDP for all NATO members. It is true that U.S. indirect contributions to NATO, in the form of troops and materiel, are significantly higher than that of any other NATO ally. This is unsurprising, since the vast majority of NATO capabilities over the past 15 years have been deployed in support of a U.S. security priority: the post-9/11 campaign in Afghanistan (which Trump says he supports). Our NATO allies have not only made a military contribution to Afghanistan; they have suffered more than 1,000 deaths and many more casualties since 2001.
Meanwhile, Trump has attacked Japan as having cheated the United States in economic relations while free-riding on our mutual security treaty. His curiously anachronistic language from the 1980s ignores the fact that Japan has consistently invested more in the American economy than almost any other country. The Japanese government also recently passed legislation that stretches its pacifist constitution to authorize Japanese forces to increase support for U.S. forces in more missions and a broader geographic area. Trump has even called on Japan, along with South Korea, to consider nuclearizing.
Without reviewing here the history of Asian security dynamics, it is safe to summarize that such an approach could create significant conflict challenges in Asia that would threaten global economic stability. Asia is now home to two-thirds of total global economic growth; some 40 percent of U.S. trade goods pass through the region. American leaders understood the potential of Asia at the end of World War II. Having won the war, they sought to secure the peace and prosperity they envisioned could follow. That put a premium on securing access for the U.S. military in the region. This last point leads to one of the most common complaints about U.S. military posture — that overseas military basing is a bad deal for America. Nothing could be further from the truth.


[size=30]Despite claims by Trump and others to the contrary, the agreements the United States has negotiated with countries such as Germany, Japan, and South Korea to base our forces there are advantageous.[/size]

Despite claims by Trump and others to the contrary, the agreements the United States has negotiated with countries such as Germany, Japan, and South Korea to base our forces there are advantageous. One Rand Corp. study estimated that Germany annually provides many hundreds of millions of dollars in support of U.S. forces there, some $830 million in 2009, the last year it examined. South Korea pays nearly $900 million, and Japan provides roughly $2 billion in yearly costs for forward-deployed U.S. forces. In fact, South Korea and Japan are paying $30 billion of the $37 billion in new facilities construction required for U.S. forces, including an unprecedented $3 billion from Tokyo for new facilities inside U.S. territory in Guam.

The alternatives to forward basing are financially and strategically challenging. One approach would be to find room to base U.S. forces currently in Japan, South Korea, and Europe — approximately 114,000 personnel — inside U.S. territory, forcing the United States to absorb the costs entirely. Those costs would include significant additional U.S. equipment if the United States wants to be prepared to project that force forward rapidly. For example, it takes about four U.S. aircraft carriers based on the U.S. mainland to maintain the presence of just one aircraft carrier in the Pacific. If we can base that aircraft carrier closer to an area of potential conflict, we need only a fraction of the expensive hardware to be built and maintained. Thus, even if host-nation support does not fully cover the costs of U.S. overseas basing, a forward American military presence is economically beneficial. An alternative is to cut all forward force structure from our military altogether, a strategically naive approach given current and projected challenges.
These hard facts are reinforced by our historical experiences. Two cataclysmic world wars in the 20th century amply demonstrated that it pays to maintain an international economic system favoring free enterprise and American industry and to protect that system with a network of relationships and alliances that together bring prosperity, protection, and freedom.
We have doubted this wisdom in the past and paid dearly for it. Take the case of South Korea. In January 1950, the United States appeared to write off defense of South Korea in Dean Acheson’s infamous “perimeter speech,” North Korea attacked that summer, and over the next three years, 36,516 Americans lost their lives reversing that attack and drawing a line for freedom on the Korean Peninsula. At a time when North Korea is conducting wargames for nuclear attacks on Washington and the Islamic State is planning terrorist attacks on the homeland, does it make sense for us to publicly throw into doubt our entire system of alliances and forward bases?
Yes, America’s allies must do more to invest in their own defense. Many are spending too little, focusing on the wrong investments, and relying too heavily on U.S. capabilities. Yet as Russia changes borders by force, China asserts itself militarily in the South China Sea, and the Islamic State unleashes violence around the globe, many allies are increasing their defense spending and cooperating more closely with the United States. Washington must reward their efforts, not leave them in the lurch. The United States has spent the last 70 years building the most impressive international alliance structure and overseas facility posture in the world. Now is not the time to casually and thoughtlessly toss this effort into the dustbin. Military alliances and overseas bases do cost money, but their value to America’s national defense and economic prosperity is worth every penny.

Telstar

Telstar

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Joanimaroni wrote:We need to be removing our bases out of Korea. No way!

Ultimately, the best way to defeat North Korea is to allow their people to see how much better-off they would be without their punk dictator. 

Not easy. Just as likely their punk dictator will convince America that we'd be better off without our brand new punk dictator.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Joanimaroni wrote:We need to be removing our bases out of Korea. No way!

I agree with Joanie here. Trump actually said he was willing to talk to Kim Jong Un. I hope he does. Diplomacy always 'trumps' saber rattling. Perhaps if we can get the round-little Korean dictator to see that we are not going to unilaterally crush his nation (unless he attacks SK or fires a nuke at us or Japan), maybe he will temper his rhetoric a bit.

Ultimately, the best way to defeat North Korea is to allow their people to see how much better-off they would be without their punk dictator. For that to happen, Kim needs to lower his toughness and let the door be cracked open a few millimeters. Or, just unlock the door so we can then surreptitiously break it down.

So, if Trump sits down to talk with Kim Jong Un, I will be the first to stand-up and salute him! He once said he would do it.


Kim Jong Un's dictatorship controls the people of North Korea...they do not have a choice. As far as the Chinese....a war involving North Korea would result in NOrth Koreans immigrants heading into China.....something China does not want.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Joanimaroni wrote: As far as the Chinese....a war involving North Korea would result in NOrth Koreans immigrants heading into China.....something China does not want.

Truth again....

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote: [...] We need to be removing our bases out of Europe.  We need to be removing our bases out of Korea.   To do many of these things we need tough leadership with Putin, but the butchmeup show in the senate just wants more war, more military spending, and needs boogey men to keep his MIC sponsors happy.   So President elect Trump will need to be very careful with Russia, but it would help now if he would release his tax returns to firmly establish that he is not connected to Putin's corrupt crony partners who are making themselves wealthy by robbing Russia blind.

Just nonsense.  Anyone who has not learned the fallacy of that statement is off in a dream world of unicorns and butterflies.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Markle wrote:....is off in a dream world of unicorns and butterflies.

It takes one to know one......

Lame Dork poster Markle's real world"


Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ... La_la_10

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Telstar

Telstar

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Markle wrote:....is off in a dream world of unicorns and butterflies.

It takes one to know one......

Lame Dork poster Markle's real world"


Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ... La_la_10
 

             How dare you say that to MR. TROUBLE SHOOTER!

Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ... Leave_16

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Putin (the richest man in the world and a murderous thug and gangster) can't wait for Trump to seize power in the U.S., and enable Russia to expand its interests in Europe and Asia -- this expounded by Gary Kasparov, world chess champion and former Russian now living in exile in the U.S.  See the link below.

I have a different perspective:  Now that it's been proven Putin ordered the hacking of the DNC and the release of selected materials to Wikileaks, in hopes of harming Clinton's campaign, to many Americans including John McCain, what Russia did was an "act of war."

I agree.  Seeking to diminish our democracy and bestow mistrust in our electoral system IS AN ACT OF WAR.   Whether or not you liked or hate Hillary, you damned well know that Russia's Cyber warfare attack on our political system was wrong.

Clearly, Putin and Russia are our enemy.

If the Pussy Grabber attempts to make an alliance with Putin, that will qualify Trump as a traitor.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that that's exactly what will take place.  So should you!  The very best place for Trump to reside isn't the White House -- it's a federal prison.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-dissident-kasparov-warns-of-a-trump-putin-alliance-210754898.html

Remember this?  What was the message, Hillary conveyed at that time?

Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ... Button

All of which has absolutely nothing whatever to do with Trump attempting to ally with Putin. Nada. Zip. If you want to open a thread to attack Hillary, be my guest. This one is about the Pussy Grabber acting like a traitor.

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Putin (the richest man in the world and a murderous thug and gangster) can't wait for Trump to seize power in the U.S., and enable Russia to expand its interests in Europe and Asia -- this expounded by Gary Kasparov, world chess champion and former Russian now living in exile in the U.S.  See the link below.

I have a different perspective:  Now that it's been proven Putin ordered the hacking of the DNC and the release of selected materials to Wikileaks, in hopes of harming Clinton's campaign, to many Americans including John McCain, what Russia did was an "act of war."

I agree.  Seeking to diminish our democracy and bestow mistrust in our electoral system IS AN ACT OF WAR.   Whether or not you liked or hate Hillary, you damned well know that Russia's Cyber warfare attack on our political system was wrong.

Clearly, Putin and Russia are our enemy.

If the Pussy Grabber attempts to make an alliance with Putin, that will qualify Trump as a traitor.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that that's exactly what will take place.  So should you!  The very best place for Trump to reside isn't the White House -- it's a federal prison.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-dissident-kasparov-warns-of-a-trump-putin-alliance-210754898.html

Remember this?  What was the message, Hillary conveyed at that time?

Trump-Putin alliance Harmful to United States Gary Kasparov Reveals ... Button

All of which has absolutely nothing whatever to do with Trump attempting to ally with Putin.  Nada. Zip.  If you want to open a thread to attack Hillary, be my guest.  This one is about the Pussy Grabber acting like a traitor.  

Why is it that talking with our enemies by Petulant Barack Hussein Obama is a GOOD THING but when President Trump wants to talk with our enemies...that is a BAD THING?

Could there be a more awkward and amateurish display?

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