Blue angels waste 110 million which could go to retention bonuses as we are 700 pilots short

I stand by my position that the Blue Angels show should be supported by civilian donations or the program should be killed. The budgets for these air shows could be used to retain pilots and not put the nation at risk.......how can we ever reduce our military if people think air shows are positive.......they are a waste of taxpayer resources and they put the nation at risk as retention bonuses need to be raised.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-air-force-struggling-to-fill-a-shortage-of-700-fighter-pilots/ar-BBvuBg9?li=BBnb7Kz

2seaoat wrote:I stand by my position that the Blue Angels show  should be supported by civilian donations or the program should be killed.   The budgets for these air shows could be used to retain pilots and not put the nation at risk.......how can we ever reduce our military if people think air shows are positive.......they are a waste of taxpayer resources and they put the nation at risk as retention bonuses need to be raised.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-air-force-struggling-to-fill-a-shortage-of-700-fighter-pilots/ar-BBvuBg9?li=BBnb7Kz

The first aviators bonus was offered in 1982, when I was stationed here for three years. You had to agree to serve for three more years if you took it. I know a lot of guys who just stuck their hands in Reagan's till for the money. They intended to make the Marine Corps/Navy their careers and really needed no incentives to keep serving--however, they couldn't help but be hogs. I turned the bonus down, and my superiors were shocked. The late Commander Clyde Lassen (MOH winner) was the CO of HT-8 at the time and even he took me aside. I stuck to my guns. I was a bachelor then and liked what I did, and felt I was paid enough to do it. I didn't have a pressing need for the money (moral issue), and I wanted to be able to resign my commission at my own option if I suddenly got tired of military service.

They could use that money to hold more Benghazi hearings.

One of the perks of living here is being able to witness this level of skill and see an awe-inspiring man-made sight when they're doing their maneuvers in the air.

But I agree with seaoat this time.

I didn't have a pressing need for the money (moral issue), and I wanted to be able to resign my commission at my own option if I suddenly got tired of military service.

Z, I have nothing but respect for your service and your deep seated sense of patriotism which is not mere talk. This idea that air shows somehow show patriotism or make some bar some money is repulsive to me. We need to cut our military budget and we need to retain highly trained personnel. I just got off the phone with a friend who I have talked about his son serving in the Air Force as a Air Traffic Controller. He had accepted a 70k retention bonus for the last six years of his twenty years in the service. I could not believe this kid has been in for 14 years, but he is being stationed on Guam and with housing allowances he will be given $2,500 housing monthly allowance, and the landlords set their rents for three bedroom two master bathrooms, great condos at $2400 knowing that the deployed housing allowance is so high. So my Banking friend, and his retired school teacher wife will be spending winters in Guam rent free on the US government in a high end condo with pool and access to the beach, and we think that our entire military does not have to be reduced and prioritized. We need to defend this nation, but there is a real question about how to do that best.....there should be a debate, and nothing should be taken off the table.

2seaoat wrote:I stand by my position that the Blue Angels show  should be supported by civilian donations or the program should be killed.   The budgets for these air shows could be used to retain pilots and not put the nation at risk.......how can we ever reduce our military if people think air shows are positive.......they are a waste of taxpayer resources and they put the nation at risk as retention bonuses need to be raised.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-air-force-struggling-to-fill-a-shortage-of-700-fighter-pilots/ar-BBvuBg9?li=BBnb7Kz

What branch has a pilot shortage Seaoat? Did you read the article? Was it the Navy or AF? Possibly the BA are the reasons why the Navy doesn't have a pilot shortage? How many movies like Top Gun were made that highlight the AF, Navy or Marines? How many movies promoting the AF were made? There is a huge contrast.

The Blue Angels are a positive promotion tool of the USN that wholly controlled by the Navy and the Marines. JMHO.

The Israelis showed the world the importance of highly trained and retained pilots can save a nation. The British spitfire pilots saved Great Britain. 700 pilots short is a huge concern as the gas prices plunge and civilian air travel booms with the job market for pilots booming right now. The Blue angels will not save America any more than the Air Force Thunderbirds will save America if we cannot scramble assets because we do not have the best pilots in the world flying. What they both do is take valuable retention dollars away from a growing weakness in our defense deployments. This idea that we are invincible and can put on bread and circus for the mob and squander critical dollars is exactly the arrogance which doomed once great nations.

Tellthetruth wrote:What branch has a pilot shortage Seaoat? Did you read the article? Was it the Navy or AF? Possibly the BA are the reasons why the Navy doesn't have a pilot shortage? How many movies like Top Gun were made that highlight the AF, Navy or Marines? How many movies promoting the AF were made? There is a huge contrast.  

The Blue Angels are a positive promotion tool of the USN that wholly controlled by the Navy and the Marines. JMHO.

Seaoat didn't answer your question, of course, TTT.   The article link he provides and the article itself make clear that this is the Air Force we're talking about, not the Navy or Marines, and I don't believe the services are in the habit of exchanging funds in any event.

But I find it rather sadly amusing that someone who previously argued against the Blue Angels as a symbol of war and the enrichment of the "military-industrial complex" -- and who obviously believes we should pull in and reduce our military resources, not maintain them at existing levels nor certainly expand them -- would now pretend he cares about a pilot shortage.  He doesn't.  He's simply using it as another means to justify his pet windmill-tilting campaign against our Blue Angels.  

One can go back and read the following June thread in its entirety to see the hypocrisy of his latest claim first hand:

Blues Cancelling Many Shows Due to Crash

Or just read this one example of Sea's many posts on the referenced thread (BBM):

"I think most thinking Americans have had quite enough with militarism and the avoidance of the warnings of Ike and our founding fathers. There was a reason we had a revolution to free us from the same. We have poured blood and treasure enriching a few and taking this once wealthy nation down the crapper. It is not by accident that Germany and Japan have watched their economies blossom without the drain of military expenditure.

"What is necessary to defend this nation......not creating a war machine to export war and generate profits for MIC. A few biplanes and historical planes and get your bread and circus........but blood and guts of gladiators......sorry I do not get a tingle down my spine watching a parade of ICBMs in red square or military planes which are instruments of war in formation. It is the bigger issue, and America is tired of subsidizing those on the government teat of military dependence and aggrandizement."

So why is Seaoat now all of sudden so deeply interested in remedying the shortage of 700 Air Force pilots, offering fat retention bonuses in the process -- and exactly how will eliminating the Navy's flight demonstration team help accomplish that goal in the first place?  It won't, of course. 

But warning, TTT:   Expect a whole lot more rambling posts from Sea in response.  I really shouldn't even get him started up again, but, as indicated, I find this all rather amusing, in a hypocritical sort of way.

Gosh Linda......this has just become so predictable when you get in a tizzy. You do not tell the truth.

The Air Force uses big bonuses to try to keep its pilots around. The service offers Aviator Retention Pay payouts for eligible pilots who agree to serve for nine more years, at a rate of up to $225,000. Fighter pilots, other valuable pilots and combat systems officers who sign up for five more years can also get a $125,000 bonus.

This was my post in the June thread, which you intentionally avoided and implied that I was just against the military industrial complex. I get it...when you are angry you have no problem with the truth. You see Israel and Britain were dependent on pilots who defended their homeland. They are essential in defense. However, military air shows like every tinpan dictator who has a military parade of military weaponry numbs a population to the horrors of this weaponry and celebrates the same. We do need to cut our military budgets.....like useless military air shows.....redundant carrier task forces numbering ten fold, and overseas military bases which serve as points to bomb and bring war to other nations. I get bubble land disconnecting what a military show represents. I get bubble land just not thinking about those being killed as I post by military in Lands we have not declared war. A million people have in many estimates died in the Middle East because of the chain of events with the invasion of Iraq. The world is less safe. The Military Industrial Complex has record profits. Bubble Land wants to expand our military and watch military air shows while funding for kids, poverty, and seniors gets scarce......I get it, but how about just a little bit of truth when you get angry.....take a deep breath and do not lie about my original post and its content......I get your lie about who outed who.....that was a memory lapse, but to intentionally cut and paste to create a one dimensional response to my desire to see the Blue Angels budget cut.....really?

In regard to Pace and Linda making the distinction between Air Force and Navy.....I can only smile. So the civilian demand for 20k pilots over the next decade, magically will have Navy pilots not jumping at the higher pay and career opportunities of Civilian employment, and this problem is just the Air Force.......because the Blue Angels have been so successful recruiting........

I don't believe the services are in the habit of exchanging funds in any event.


I just love this place......I look at a simple sentence and it tells me everything.....I need to go easy.....I feel like I am going to the nursing home and beating up on the elderly and disabled.

I was told the other day and don't know how true this is, that the county since taking over the beach will not fund the Blue's show next year if there is one. Said it was not worth the money the SRIA used to put up. This person that told me was on a committee for SRIA this past year. Don't know like I said if it's true.

There are so many needs in Escambia County where tax dollars can be spent. I am glad others have the courage to tell the truth and face the mob when the bread and circus is removed.

Some good people who as military folks need to lead the way are speaking up
http://www.pnj.com/story/news/2016/06/26/viewpoint-cut-blue-angels-federal-budget/86404042/

In the end we need to cherish our founding father's concern for a standing army and the risk this presented to liberty. We can have a smaller defensive alignment in our military which is much less expensive, and far more efficient in protecting America. However, if the military Industrial Complex and special interests can continue to brainwash Americans that an expansive offensive military presence is required.......then of course the blue angels and thunderbirds are essential. Simple common sense and real patriotism is required to make sure our grandchildren are not locked in unsustainable debt in a world less safe because of our public policies.

Well, I warned you, TTT, and what did I say?  I know, I know, I shouldn't have gotten him started.  Mea culpa.  But don't worry, Sea largely got after me, not you, since I'm one of his favorite targets.  He really hates reasonably intelligent people who stand up to him and his massive ego.  Can't stand it, matter of fact.  

And speaking of ego, wow, Mr. Sea actually thinks I take the time to read every single post of his and that I intentionally avoid any that don't support my premise.   NOT true in the least, and I wouldn't bother anyway because he writes in so many different directions and with so little clarity that (1) he is virtually impossible for most folks to follow, especially those "elderly and disabled" or demented as he likes to insultingly throw at me ad nauseam, and (2) he flies off in so many different directions that he can always go back and find SOMETHING he said once before that seems to support whatever argument he's currently making.   That is, again, if one has the patience to slug through the sludge of his verbosity.  

And note how he LOVES to throw in references to old arguments - pound, pound, pound.  Must be fun living with him and trying to have a serious discussion about any disagreement; sticking to the subject at hand, avoiding dredging up ancient history and name-calling, has to be near impossible.  I simply cannot imagine.

What a piece of work.

Bubble Land??  HA.   Sea is in LA LA LAND.

Bubble Land?? HA. Sea is in LA LA LAND.

La La land we recognize a candidate's medicare position, and are not posers...Bubble land is spend more money on the military and screw expanding medicare......poser.........and attack other folk's positions, and then deny what they did say or what you did not say......no wonder you feign dislike for Donald Trump, I expect fully to be credited with being the founder of something like bubble people for Trump.

2seaoat wrote:Bubble Land??  HA.   Sea is in LA LA LAND.

La La land we recognize a candidate's medicare position, and are not posers...Bubble land is spend more money on the military and screw expanding medicare......poser.........and attack other folk's positions, and then deny what they did say or what you did not say......no wonder you feign dislike for Donald Trump, I expect fully to be credited with being the founder of something like bubble people for Trump.

LA LA LAME.

And on that note, I have better things to do with my time. See y'all later.

And on that note, I have better things to do with my time. See y'all later.


I am hopeful that some of that time involves some reading. It would be nice to see your contributions return to the same high level of "informed" discussion like some of the fee simple threads. This has digressed to utter ignorance of issues and facts which something as simple as demographics in a zip code are ignored and twisted.

2seaoat wrote:And on that note, I have better things to do with my time. See y'all later.


I am hopeful that some of that time involves some reading.  It would be nice to see your contributions return to the same high level of "informed" discussion like some of the fee simple threads.   This has digressed to utter ignorance of issues and facts which something as simple as demographics in a zip code are ignored and twisted.

Give me a friggin' break, you arrogant son of a gun. Ignoring and twisting are YOUR specialties, not mine.

you arrogant son of a gun.

I must be getting on your sweet side again......you were not profane.

ppaca wrote:I was told the other day and don't know how true this is, that the county since taking over the beach will not fund the Blue's show next year if there is one. Said it was not worth the money the SRIA used to put up. This person that told me was on a committee for SRIA this past year. Don't know like I said if it's true.

Ppaca, please let me assure you it's simply not true.   In the first place, the county did NOT "take over the beach;" it only took over the Safety and Public Works functions from the SRIA.  Neither of those functions oversees special events, including the Blue Angels' beach air show.   Special events all remain under the auspices of the SRIA, and are all still wholly funded by the lease fees which we islanders continue to pay, albeit now in a lower total amount since we're also paying ad valorem taxes on our leaseholds as to both improvements and land (except for certain leased lands which the courts have recently found not to be taxable).  

The reduction in lease fees -- the only source of SRIA funding -- was the reason the county  had to do their part, i.e., taking over Safety and Public Works -- but the SRIA remains fully viable as to their remaining functions.

Secondly, I contacted Grover Robinson about this and he was kind enough to respond on a Saturday.   He assured me your contact "...knows nothing."  He said, "As long as there is an SRIA, they will probably be funding the Blues unless THEY make that decision not to."  And such a decision is highly unlikely, as you may well imagine, and which I can also assure you as one who (btw) has also recently served on an SRIA committee, and who knows Director Paolo Ghio pretty well.  The SRIA loves the Blues and their own important role in the beach air shows and related events.  No way will they decide to stop funding the Blues events unless and until their source of revenue (we, the leaseholders) should somehow dry up.    

Grover did state that, "When there was thought that the SRIA might go away*, the county did discuss with 4 cent TDT [tourist development tax] to fund the Blues."  So the county has discussed alternate means of funding the Blues, but certainly NOT stopping the funding, should they ever take over the entire role of the SRIA.

In fact Grover seemed rather irritated when he ended by suggesting that I "Quit listening to people who do nothing but gossip on things they don't know."   LOL  

If you're a Blue Angels fan, ppaca, I hope this sets your mind at ease.   If not, maybe it will soothe other minds that might've been disturbed by your report of what you heard.   So thank you for bringing it to our attention.

*P.S.    The thought that the SRIA might entirely "go away" was engendered by the belief at the time that fee simple legislation might actually be passed in Congress, which would eventually mean that island lease fees -- again, the SRIA's one and only source of funding -- would go away, since leaseholders would become property owners like most county homeowners, and most leases would be voided.   It does not now appear that such federal legislation has a snowball's chance in hell, even though some of us have not completely given up on it, believing it's the only wise thing to do for long term stability.