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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » The need for single payer medicare for all

The need for single payer medicare for all

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gatorfan
2seaoat
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2seaoat



I needed an Echo test of my heart before they could determine in my weakened state if I was eligible for lung surgery to remove marble size NET tumors in my lungs and bronchial tubes. My wife and I sat in the waiting room for the test where we witnessed the worse of the American health system.

We saw person after person get surprised that the cost of the test is $2,200.00, and that people with large copay and having not met their deductible were required to pay $1,000.00 before the test could be given. First, they did not have a confidential area to discuss this and it was in ear shot of everybody in the waiting room. Second, the doctors who ordered these tests did not give any forewarning to patients to check with their insurance as there are usual out of pocket costs. It was horrifying to see people almost get up and leave because they did not have 1k to put down. Worse was after fully scaring and humiliating the patient, the Northwestern people said that they could accept half or five hundred dollars. People were sick and digging in their purses asking if they could post date a check because they would not have five hundred dollars in their account until today.

I went up hoping that would even think of treating me like that but with my constant use of my deductibles and having very good insurance, they told me I was set for the test and to take a seat. I immediately got online and read the Northwestern administration the riot act. They are violating Hippa law with this lack of privacy, but worse they are hurting patients and making their situation worse. I suggested that bad insurance should be identified. With check in, those with bad insurance should be called to a desk which is closed and confidential. That there is NO excuse for a doctor or the staff of the echo department not to contact a patient PRIOR to the procedure to let them know that they have options OTHER than somebody playing Vito and beating them up in a public waiting room. I have been raising hell since I have been home, and I WILL get this changed. You see the good thing about a slow cancer is that you stick around long enough to make positive changes. My suggestions have been followed after I wrote the President of Northwestern about how they handle very sick cancer victims on the 21st floor, and if they keep finding illness in this worn out body, I will probably visit every damn floor of the hospital, but we must improve our system. Please do not think like I did when I was healthy that everything is okie dokie in our health care system. Do not think the affordable care act was anything but a temporary stop on the journey for affordable insurance for all Americans. I will not sit by and watch people get hurt........I think they wish I was dead at Northwestern, but they keep emailing me asking for my feedback, and that is exactly what winners do.......they take the criticism and improve. It is time for America to be a winner again......lets get medicare for all, and treat every American with respect, not just the fortunate ones like myself who has good insurance. This really is a life and death struggle and Bernie has this right.

gatorfan



Medicare for all should have been the 1st choice. The ACA is burdensome to the medical industry and as many big insurers and exchanges are finding out, it is not the cost-efficient mechanism touted by its supporters. Billions have been wasted on the ACA and those that like to say "but millions more have health insurance" refuse to acknowledge the fact that many of those same people can't afford to use their nifty new health insurance due to high deductibles and co-pays.

It's all been a big lie.

2seaoat



It's all been a big lie.

Not at all. It has been a huge positive first step. The prior medical condition ankle bracelet on millions of Americans has been removed. No longer are they slaves to one job, but now they can test their god given skills in the open labor market without condemning their family to no insurance. I agree that the Affordable Care Act can NEVER be as efficient as a single payer system, but again it is a step by step process. Even a progressive democrat like Hillary Clinton feels like it is a bridge too far.....we need Bernie's voice in the debate.

dumpcare



2seaoat wrote:I needed an Echo test of my heart before they could determine in my weakened state if I was eligible for lung surgery to remove marble size NET tumors in my lungs and bronchial tubes.  My wife and I sat in the waiting room for the test where we witnessed the worse of the American health system.

We saw person after person get surprised that the cost of the test is $2,200.00, and that people with large copay and having not met their deductible were required to pay $1,000.00 before the test could be given.  First, they did not have a confidential area to discuss this and it was in ear shot of everybody in the waiting room.  Second, the doctors who ordered these tests did not give any forewarning to patients to check with their insurance as there are usual out of pocket costs.  It was horrifying to see people almost get up and leave because they did not have 1k to put down.   Worse was after fully scaring and humiliating the patient, the Northwestern people said that they could accept half or five hundred dollars.  People were sick and digging in their purses asking if they could post date a check because they would not have five hundred dollars in their account until today.

I went up hoping that would even think of treating me like that but with my constant use of my deductibles and having very good insurance, they told me I was set for the test and to take a seat.   I immediately got online and read the Northwestern administration the riot act.  They are violating Hippa law with this lack of privacy, but worse they are hurting patients and making their situation worse.   I suggested that bad insurance should be identified.  With check in, those with bad insurance should be called to a desk which is closed and confidential.   That there is NO excuse for a doctor or the staff of the echo department not to contact a patient PRIOR to the procedure to let them know that they have options OTHER than somebody playing Vito and beating them up in a public waiting room.   I have been raising hell since I have been home, and I WILL get this changed.  You see the good thing about a slow cancer is that you stick around long enough to make positive changes.  My suggestions have been followed after I wrote the President of Northwestern about how they handle very sick cancer victims on the 21st floor, and if they keep finding illness in this worn out body, I will probably visit every damn floor of the hospital, but we must improve our system.  Please do not think like I did when I was healthy that everything is okie dokie in our health care system.   Do not think the affordable care act was anything but a temporary stop on the journey for affordable insurance for all Americans.   I will not sit by and watch people get hurt........I think they wish I was dead at Northwestern, but they keep emailing me asking for my feedback, and that is exactly what winners do.......they take the criticism and improve.   It is time for America to be a winner again......lets get medicare for all, and treat every American with respect, not just the fortunate ones like myself who has good insurance.   This really is a life and death struggle and Bernie has this right.

I

2seaoat



I

You nailed it.....I am feeling strong again.....think I can take on all the wrongs of the world......just got an email back from Northwestern.....I made headway with the echo check in as they acknowledged my email........more to come, but I FEEL GOOD!

Markle

Markle

How well is that single payer thingy working in say Great Britain?

Lame Duck President Obama appointed Donald Berwick to head (you just can't make these things up) the centers for Medicare and Medicaid.

Several years ago Dr. Berwick gave a speech in Great Britain where he said, and I quote: “I am romantic about the NHS; I love it. All I need to do to rediscover the romance is to look at health care in my own country.”

Are you aware that Great Britain, like, Canada ALSO...have death panels? In Great Britain, it is called the Liverpool Pathway. Life saving or extending drugs are withheld from you WITH OR WITHOUT the permission of the patient or their family.

My good friend 2seaoat would have been pushing up posies LONG AGO.

2seaoat



My good friend 2seaoat would have been pushing up posies LONG AGO.




Wrong, it has been the European advancements against my cancer which has kept me alive. Steve Jobs traveled to Europe at the end because their socialized medicine was making breakthrough after breakthrough for NET cancers, but he had earlier made a very bad choice of a liver transplant at the University of Missouri, good old American health care where a billionaire who should never had been given a liver at his age and condition......and against all doctor recommendations he shunned the European course of treatment, and he was dead two years earlier. Socialistic medicine in Europe is doing some amazing things.........and those Sando shots are 1/2 the price and everybody can get a second shot in their system.....not in America.....I see people going without in our system......we need massive change.

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:My good friend 2seaoat would have been pushing up posies LONG AGO.

Wrong, it has been the European advancements against my cancer which has kept me alive.  Steve Jobs traveled to Europe at the end because their socialized medicine was making breakthrough after breakthrough for NET cancers, but he had earlier made a very bad choice of a liver transplant at the University of Missouri, good old American health care where a billionaire who should never had been given a liver at his age and condition......and against all doctor recommendations he shunned the European course of treatment, and he was dead two years earlier.   Socialistic medicine in Europe is doing some amazing things.........and those Sando shots are 1/2 the price and everybody can get a second shot in their system.....not in America.....I see people going without in our system......we need massive change.

Out of desperation, Steve Jobs went to Europe and the trip was futile. That you know.

From Great Britain's health care system, our head of Medicare and Medicaid said he LOVED comes this:

Quality-adjusted life years[edit]
NICE guidance supports the use of quality-adjusted life years (QALY) as the primary outcome for quantifying the expected health benefits associated with a given treatment regime. By comparing the present value (see discounting) of expected QALY flows with and without treatment, or relative to another treatment, the net/relative health benefit derived from such a treatment can be derived. When combined with the relative cost of treatment, this information can be used to estimate an incremental cost-effectiveness ratio (ICER), which is considered in relation to NICE's threshold willingness-to-pay value.[24]
As a guideline rule, NICE accepts as cost-effective those interventions with an incremental cost-effectiveness ratio of less than £20,000 per QALY and that there should be increasingly strong reasons for accepting as cost-effective interventions with an incremental cost-effectiveness ratio of over a threshold of £30,000 per QALY.[26]
Over the years, there has been great controversy as to what value this threshold should be set at. Initially, there was no fixed number. But the appraisal teams created a consensus amount of about £30,000. However, in November 2008 Alan Johnson, the then Secretary of State, announced that for end-of-life cancer drugs the threshold could be increased above £30,000. [27]
The first drug to go through the new process was Lenalidomide, whose ICER was £43,800.[28]
Cost per quality-adjusted life year gained[edit]
The following example from NICE explains the QALY principle and the application of the cost per QALY calculation.
A patient has a life-threatening condition and is expected to live on average for 1 year receiving the current best treatment which costs the NHS £3,000. A new drug becomes available that will extend the life of the patient by three months and improve his or her quality of life, but the new treatment will cost the NHS more than three times as much at £10,000. Patients score their perceived quality of life on a scale from 0 to 1 with 0 being worst possible health and 1 being best possible health. On the standard treatment, quality of life is rated with a score of 0.4 but it improves to 0.6 with the new treatment. Patients on the new treatment on average live an extra 3 months, so 1.25 years in total. The quality of life gained is the product of life span and quality rating with the new treatment less the same calculation for the old treatment, i.e. (1.25 x 0.6) less (1.0 x 0.4) = 0.35 QALY. The marginal cost of the new treatment to deliver this extra gain is £7,000 so the cost per quality life year gained is £7000/0.35 or £20,000. This is within the £20,000-£30,000 that is suggested by NICE to be the limit for drugs to be cost-effective.[29]
If the patient was expected to live only one month extra and instead of three then NICE would issue a recommendation not to fund. The patient's Primary Care Trust[needs update] could still decide to fund the new treatment, but if not, the patient would then have two choices. He or she could opt to take the free NHS standard treatment, or he or she may decide to pay out of pocket to obtain the benefit of the new treatment from a different health care provider. If the person has a private health insurance policy the person could check to see whether the private insurance provider will fund the new treatment. About 8% of the population has some private health insurance from an employer or trade association and 2% pay from their own resources.

2seaoat



No desperation. The Europeans just happen to be leading the field in NET tumors, and Jobs just waited too long to get his shots. He tried diet, and the good old American very expensive and totally ineffective liver transplant, when if he had continued his shots in Europe, and followed up with the same in America.....he might still be with us.......tell me if a hispanic landscaper who is 55 and stricken with cancer on his liver is going to get on a transplant list, let alone get the operation......America.....where some get quality care, and many do not. We can do better.

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:No desperation.  The Europeans just happen to be leading the field in NET tumors, and Jobs just waited too long to get his shots.  He tried diet, and the good old American very expensive and totally ineffective liver transplant, when if he had continued his shots in Europe, and followed up with the same in America.....he might still be with us.......tell me if a hispanic landscaper who is 55 and stricken with cancer on his liver is going to get on a transplant list, let alone get the operation......America.....where some get quality care, and many do not.   We can do better.

Now you're doing your Marco Rubio impersonation and repeating your talking points.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Americans pay more per capita for health care than people in any other industrialized nations in the world.  And even so, our healthcare results are considerably poorer than those of Canada, England, France, Belgium, Norway, Sweden ... and the list goes on.

American drug manufacturers charge Americans huge costs for drugs they sell cheaply to people in other countries.

America is the only modern nation where healthcare isn't a right.

Down with Amerika Inc. -- corporate control of our government through corrupt campaign financing.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

It is time for America to be a winner again......lets get medicare for all, and treat every American with respect, not just the fortunate ones like myself who has good insurance.   This really is a life and death struggle and Bernie has this right.  2SeaOat

Right on Seaoat!

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

I am actually for MediCare availability/access for all in lieu of MedicAid & the ACA exchanges.    

Let's get rid of the insurance exchanges & MedicAid & Chip & open up MediCare to people of any age.   Forget about subsidies  & require MediCare recipients to pay a premium, deductible, co-pays on a sliding-scale according to their income/assets.

Then, still keeping the prior-condition & child-dependent rules of the ACA, let's still allow employer group plans as well as a completely independent private sector health insurance plans.    We should via the Interstate Commerce Clause also replace State regulation of health insurance with Federal regulation & allow health insurance companies to sell the same plan in any State and enact some medical tort reform.

Then let MediCare, employer sponsored group plans, & the private health insurance market compete.

dumpcare



EmeraldGhost wrote:I am actually for MediCare availability/access for all in lieu of MedicAid & the ACA exchanges.    

Let's get rid of the insurance exchanges & MedicAid & Chip & open up MediCare to people of any age.   Forget about subsidies  & require MediCare recipients to pay a premium, deductible, co-pays on a sliding-scale according to their income/assets.

Then, still keeping the prior-condition & child-dependent rules of the ACA, let's still allow employer group plans as well as a completely independent private sector health insurance plans.    We should via the Interstate Commerce Clause also replace State regulation of health insurance with Federal regulation & allow health insurance companies to sell the same plan in any State and enact some medical tort reform.

Then let MediCare, employer sponsored group plans, & the private health insurance market compete.

It would be very tough to ever implement a plan to sell across state lines. The risk and claims adjudication are different in every state and anyone would play hell with provider networks. The cost of premium's for a Florida plan would be much higher that let's say Kansas where the risk is lower. Insurance company's would go crazy with pricing. It would have to change many laws and the NAIC would have to sign off, which would probably never happen.

But  I do agree with Medicare for all and with this would give employer's no incentive to keep group plans and why should they? A lot of smaller employer's dropped group plans and sent there employee's to the marketplace. Of course for large employer's it is a tax write off, but employee's should be give the choice and insurance company's lowering their participation rate for group.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

ppaca wrote:

It would be very tough to ever implement a plan to sell across state lines. The risk and claims adjudication are different in every state

Only due to State regulations.

ppaca wrote:
and anyone would play hell with provider networks. The cost of premium's for a Florida plan would be much higher that let's say Kansas where the risk is lower. Insurance company's would go crazy with pricing. It would have to change many laws and the NAIC would have to sign off, which would probably never happen.

I have little doubt the insurance companies could work out pricing & networks ... it's what they do. And we would be getting rid of State regulatory agencies/schemes. What's easier and more efficient.... complying with the regs of 50 different States or one national regulatory scheme?

And MediCare manages to do it somehow .... go figure.

ppaca wrote:
But  I do agree with Medicare for all and with this would give employer's no incentive to keep group plans and why should they? A lot of smaller employer's dropped group plans and sent there employee's to the marketplace. Of course for large employer's it is a tax write off, but employee's should be give the choice and insurance company's lowering their participation rate for group.

We need to get employers out of the health insurance business anyway. But John McCain was crucified for that idea if you may recall.

Normally, I'm a small government/states-rights kind of guy .... but I agree it's time for an Interstate Commerce Clause intervention when it comes to health care. (It's gonna happen eventually anyway, IMO)

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:Americans pay more per capita for health care than people in any other industrialized nations in the world.  And even so, our healthcare results are considerably poorer than those of Canada, England, France, Belgium, Norway, Sweden ... and the list goes on.

American drug manufacturers charge Americans huge costs for drugs they sell cheaply to people in other countries.

America is the only modern nation where healthcare isn't a right.

Down with Amerika Inc. -- corporate control of our government through corrupt campaign financing.

The more desperation, the more LIES from my Progressive good friends.

That's really sad.

Guest


Guest

http://www.theguardian.com/society/live/2016/feb/10/junior-doctors-strike-second-24-hour-walkout-over-new-contracts-live-updates

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Americans pay more per capita for health care than people in any other industrialized nations in the world.  And even so, our healthcare results are considerably poorer than those of Canada, England, France, Belgium, Norway, Sweden ... and the list goes on.

American drug manufacturers charge Americans huge costs for drugs they sell cheaply to people in other countries.

America is the only modern nation where healthcare isn't a right.

Down with Amerika Inc. -- corporate control of our government through corrupt campaign financing.

The more desperation, the more LIES from my Progressive good friends.

That's really sad.


Why is our lifespan, compared to that of people living in other industrialized nations, so limited?

Are we not the only modern country where healthcare ISN'T a right?

The only purpose of health insurers is to make profit from peoples' illness. Fuck health insurers and the bloodsucking moguls who run them!

Markle

Markle

The facts of lifespan have been explained in detail to you many times. The fact that you are incapable of learning is not my responsibility.

As for string of childish profanity?

Meh.

2seaoat



We need single payer which is just a large insurance pool with sound actuarial tables and built in efficiency based on economy of scale, both in the operation of the system and the purchase of drugs which cuts the price of the same. There is no magic bullet or perfect solution, but the journey of improving and making sure that health care in America is a right for every citizen. Budgets are priorities and it is time to change our priorities as a nation. Budget cuts in defense, and not putting all our defense dollars in one basket is a start. I have argued for ten years that our carrier task force alignment is a sitting duck for tactical nuclear weapons and crude missile technology. A rogue runt nation like North Korea could take out our 11 carrier groups in a well executed attack in a day.......and we would be stymied for a decade. We need smaller and less expensive flexible defense policy, and more government dollars invested in our people and infrastructure.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:The facts of lifespan have been explained in detail to you many times.  The fact that you are incapable of learning is not my responsibility.

As for string of childish profanity?

Meh.

Why is our lifespan, compared to that of people living in other industrialized nations, so limited?

Are we not the only modern country where healthcare ISN'T a right?

The only purpose of health insurers is to make profit from peoples' illness. Fuck health insurers and the bloodsucking moguls who run them!

Guest


Guest

Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:The facts of lifespan have been explained in detail to you many times.  The fact that you are incapable of learning is not my responsibility.

As for string of childish profanity?

Meh.

Why is our lifespan, compared to that of people living in other industrialized nations, so limited?

Are we not the only modern country where healthcare ISN'T a right?

There are numerous mitigating factors as to why both life expectancy and infant mortality are poor indicators... not the least of which are genetics, habits, foods, and record keeping discrepancies among the countries... but you knew that.

Healthcare isn't a magical unicorn human right poindexter... it's a service. A better "right" is a good diet and exercise.

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA547ComparativeHealth.html

Admittedly it's not as useful at growing a central govt and increasing it's controls on human behaviors.

Tough shit comrade.

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:The facts of lifespan have been explained in detail to you many times.  The fact that you are incapable of learning is not my responsibility.

As for string of childish profanity?

Meh.

Why is our lifespan, compared to that of people living in other industrialized nations, so limited?

Are we not the only modern country where healthcare ISN'T a right?

The only purpose of health insurers is to make profit from peoples' illness. Fuck health insurers and the bloodsucking moguls who run them!

The facts of lifespan have been explained in detail to you many times. The fact that you are incapable of learning is not my responsibility.

As for string of childish profanity?

Meh.

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