Pensacola Discussion Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

This is a forum based out of Pensacola Florida.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Single payer health care in effect in Montana

5 posters

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 2]

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

NPR
July 30,2013
Montana's State-Run Free Clinic Sees Early Success
By Dan Boyce

A year ago, Montana opened the nation's first clinic for free primary healthcare services to its state government employees. The Helena, Mont., clinic was pitched as a way to improve overall employee health.

A year later, the state says the clinic is already saving money.

(Government employees still have their) normal health insurance provided by the state. But at the clinic, (there are) no co-pays, no deductibles. It's free.

That's the case for the Helena area's 11,000 state workers and their dependents. With an appointment, patients wait just a couple minutes to see a doctor.

"For goodness sakes, of course the employees and the retirees like it, it's free," says Republican State Sen. Dave Lewis.

He and others faulted then-Gov. Brian Schweitzer for moving ahead with the clinic last year without approval of the state legislature, although it was not needed.

Now, Lewis is a retired state employee himself. He says, personally, he does like going there, too.

The state contracts with a private company to run the facility and pays for everything — wages of the staff, total costs of all the visits. Those are all new expenses, and they all come from the budget for state employee healthcare.

Even so, division manager Russ Hill says it's actually costing the state $1,500,000 less for healthcare than before the clinic opened.

"Because there's no markup, our cost per visit is lower than in a private fee-for-service environment," Hill says.

Physicians are paid by the hour, not by the number of procedures they prescribe like many in the private sector. The state is able to buy supplies at lower prices.

Bottom line: a patient's visit to the employee health clinic costs the state about half what it would cost if that patient went to a private doctor. And because it's free to patients, hundreds of people have come in who had not seen a doctor for at least two years.

Montana recently opened a second state employee health clinic in Billings, the state's largest city. Others are in the works.

http://www.npr.org/2013/07/30/206654000/montanas-state-run-free-clinic-sees-early-success


To which Don McCanne of the PNHP responds:


Let's see. This Montana state-run free clinic is government owned, the physicians are salaried, there are no deductibles or co-pays, employees and retirees including Republicans like it, and it costs the state "about half what it would cost if that patient went to a private doctor." Wow!

The single payer model of social insurance usually calls for a government-run insurance program that pays for our largely private health care delivery system, with all of its inefficiencies and inequities. But what if it paid for a government owned and financed health care delivery system similar to this Montana clinic, but with government ownership expanded throughout the entire delivery system.

Instead of just aiming for the goal of a single payer social insurance program, we could have a program of socialized medicine - government ownership of the delivery system. Considering that it is a much lower cost system with which everyone is happy, is that such a bad idea?

2seaoat



More examples to come........saving money is a good thing.

Guest


Guest

Now you know PB that the HEAD nurse  will come on here and call you names, well me to as well as seaoat. Because she is the know it all of all things.

Guest


Guest

The Es.Co School Board has opened it's own clinic for their employees.

Markle

Markle

WOW...a system where tax payers pay for a clinic for 11,000 people.  I'm impressed!  NPR is a far left organization and seems to miss the serious questions.  What happens when someone gets ill and a walk-in clinic will not suffice and who pays for long term care?

PNHP is another far left organization made up of a few zealous doctors and other activists who think government care is the solution.

They use the word "FREE" five times in the short article and NONE of it is free


Oregon has had single payer for some time too.  Working great!

The…FINAL SOLUTION according to March1936

ObamaCare has already FAILED in Oregon

Jun 6, 2008 / 01:09 am (CNA).- An Oregon woman suffering from lung cancer was notified by the state-run Oregon Health Plan that their policy would not cover her life-extending cancer drug, telling her the health plan would cover doctor-assisted suicide instead.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5517492&page=1


###

It seems to be working well….

Suicide Assistance Is Increasing, Oregon Says
Published: February 24, 2000

SALEM, Ore., Feb. 23 — Twenty-seven terminally ill Oregonians, mostly older cancer patients, used the nation's only law on assisted suicide to end their lives in 1999, up from 16 the year before.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/24/us/suicide-assistance-is-increasing-oregon-says.html?sec=health

###

Can you imagine what it would feel like to have your doctor tell you you’re too old to be worth fixing?  Or having a government bureaucrat tell you that they won’t pay to fight the illness that’s killing you but they will pay for you to kill yourself?

That’s the reality of government-run health care.

Guest


Guest

Clinics and a hospital delivery system are two completely different things.

There are clinics all over. This is small potatoes. $$$$

Now you are advocating a complete government takeover of healthcare.

I'm afraid you are out of your mind. sorry but I just cant find any other reason someone would advocate such a ridiculous idea.

I know in your heart you mean good, but in reality you are fantasizing about the GOV coming to save you.

This is not the way Americans think. Let go, let Gov. Evil or Very Mad 

How much power are you willing to give the gov in order to have your utopian dream fulfilled?

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

Markle wrote:

"PNHP is another far left organization made up of a few zealous doctors and other activists who think government care is the solution."

Enter "pnhp.org" into your search box and take a look at the number of state chapters and other references to PNHP activities that pop up. Pages and pages of them.

Yep, just a few zealous doctors and activists, that's all we are.  Laughing 

I can remember the day when PNHP was a little-known group based in Boston. Wow....look how our movement has grown! We must be hitting some nerves somewhere along the way, eh?

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


Prevention is key...getting people screened on a regular basis will go a long way toward combating serious diseases. Private for-profit corporations just suck money for their bottom lines from the public...money and resources that should be going to prevention and treatment. Any medical professional with a functioning brain would support this program.

Guest


Guest

Mandatory dietary restrictions/requirements.

Compulsory exercise requirements w proofs.

Lifestyle risk prohibitions w penalties and testing.

Genetic predisposition and means test birth controls.

Guest


Guest

Dreamsglore wrote:The Es.Co School Board has opened it's own clinic for their employees.

What happens when the clinic is overwhelmed with sick people or an employee is hurt in a car wreck outside of town? Or if on vacation, someone, God forbid, gets a pulmonary embolism in Evergreen, Alabama?

Guest


Guest

Floridatexan wrote:
Prevention is key...getting people screened on a regular basis will go a long way toward combating serious diseases.  Private for-profit corporations just suck money for their bottom lines from the public...money and resources that should be going to prevention and treatment.  Any medical professional with a functioning brain would support this program.  

Santa Rosa just opted out of its prevention business with Virgin Health Miles this year. It was costing them too much money to run the exercise program and quarterly checkups run through BCBS. Now, nobody will participate and back to the status quo most will go I am sure.

2seaoat



Jun 6, 2008 / 01:09 am (CNA).- An Oregon woman suffering from lung cancer was notified by the state-run Oregon Health Plan that their policy would not cover her life-extending cancer drug, telling her the health plan would cover doctor-assisted suicide instead.


Time to wake up Mr. Markle from your slumber.  The insurance companies today only have a 25% payment rate on the second shot I receive.  This means 75% of the people who have endocrine cancer are not getting their second shot paid.   This has NOTHING to do with the affordable care act.....nothing.   Medicare 100% does not pay for that second shot.  My largest of the three tumors on my liver decreased in size by one inch because I am getting that second shot.   You want to blame Obama......man stay healthy my friend......you are clueless.

Markle

Markle

PBulldog2 wrote:Markle wrote:

"PNHP is another far left organization made up of a few zealous doctors and other activists who think government care is the solution."

Enter "pnhp.org" into your search box and take a look at the number of state chapters and other references to PNHP activities that pop up. Pages and pages of them.

Yep, just a few zealous doctors and activists, that's all we are.  Laughing 

I can remember the day when PNHP was a little-known group based in Boston. Wow....look how our movement has grown! We must be hitting some nerves somewhere along the way, eh?

Compared with the number of doctors in the country, PNHP is a trivial organization with the goal of Socialist Health Care.

Guest


Guest

PACEDOG#1 wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:The Es.Co School Board has opened it's own clinic for their employees.

What happens when the clinic is overwhelmed with sick people or an employee is hurt in a car wreck outside of town? Or if on vacation, someone, God forbid, gets a pulmonary embolism in Evergreen, Alabama?

Jesus Einstein! They still have their medical plans. They would go to a hospital wherever they are. The clinics are for minor illnesses and injuries.

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:Jun 6, 2008 / 01:09 am (CNA).- An Oregon woman suffering from lung cancer was notified by the state-run Oregon Health Plan that their policy would not cover her life-extending cancer drug, telling her the health plan would cover doctor-assisted suicide instead.


Time to wake up Mr. Markle from your slumber.  The insurance companies today only have a 25% payment rate on the second shot I receive.  This means 75% of the people who have endocrine cancer are not getting their second shot paid.   This has NOTHING to do with the affordable care act.....nothing.   Medicare 100% does not pay for that second shot.  My largest of the three tumors on my liver decreased in size by one inch because I am getting that second shot.   You want to blame Obama......man stay healthy my friend......you are clueless.

Lucky you don't live in Oregon, or Great Britain.

I hope you're not under the illusion of many Obamaites and believe ObamaCare would pay for those shots. That's why they'll have government bureaucrats making those decisions.

Markle

Markle

Dreamsglore wrote:
PACEDOG#1 wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:The Es.Co School Board has opened it's own clinic for their employees.

What happens when the clinic is overwhelmed with sick people or an employee is hurt in a car wreck outside of town? Or if on vacation, someone, God forbid, gets a pulmonary embolism in Evergreen, Alabama?

Jesus Einstein! They still have their medical plans. They would go to a hospital wherever they are. The clinics are for minor illnesses and injuries.

So tax payers are paying for a "FREE" clinic AND their medical insurance. Gee, I just can't figure out why governments are going broke!

2seaoat



Lucky you don't live in Oregon, or Great Britain.


Wrong again. The folks with endocrine cancer were getting the Belgium/Switzerland (4 shots) for free........Steve Jobs flew over to Europe to get treated and had to pay in excess of 30k for what they get for free........why couldn't he get treatment in America if we are so good.......unfettered capitalism when dealing with sick and dying people is never a good proposition. If you cannot understand that simple concept, you will never get beyond the real facts you ignore.......Canada, Great Britain, Germany and most of Europe are paying much less and getting high quality care by having their governments fetter and bridle capitalism when it comes to health care.....a basic simple concept which you ignore.

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:Lucky you don't live in Oregon, or Great Britain.


Wrong again.   The folks with endocrine cancer were getting the Belgium/Switzerland (4 shots) for free........Steve Jobs flew over to Europe to get treated and had to pay in excess of 30k for what they get for free........why couldn't he get treatment in America if we are so good.......unfettered capitalism when dealing with sick and dying people is never a good proposition.   If you cannot understand that simple concept, you will never get beyond the real facts you ignore.......Canada, Great Britain, Germany and most of Europe are paying much less and getting high quality care by having their governments fetter and bridle capitalism when it comes to health care.....a basic simple concept which you ignore.

Jobs was trying experimental treatments. How'd that work out?

Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:Lucky you don't live in Oregon, or Great Britain.


Wrong again.   The folks with endocrine cancer were getting the Belgium/Switzerland (4 shots) for free........Steve Jobs flew over to Europe to get treated and had to pay in excess of 30k for what they get for free........why couldn't he get treatment in America if we are so good.......unfettered capitalism when dealing with sick and dying people is never a good proposition.   If you cannot understand that simple concept, you will never get beyond the real facts you ignore.......Canada, Great Britain, Germany and most of Europe are paying much less and getting high quality care by having their governments fetter and bridle capitalism when it comes to health care.....a basic simple concept which you ignore.

Switzerland can afford to be a very generous Socialist nation so long as they remain a haven for money from around the world.

As for Belgium, they may not be giving those shots for "free" for long. Like much of Europe, they to are in economic trouble but are a tiny nation.


2: University of Liège, Belgium


Publication Date 26 Apr 2012 Bibliographic information No.: 954 Pages39DOI10.1787/5k9b7bxqvgvh-en

Economic growth is projected to be strengthening from mid-2011 onwards, but will be insufficient to restore the sustainability of public finances. The Belgian strategy to prefund ageing costs by generating fiscal surpluses to bring down public debt was derailed by the global crisis. Restoring the strategy is a priority, especially as spreads on Belgian debt have increased. This will require cuts in public spending, improving efficiency of policies, containing the growth of ageing-related costs and making the tax system more conducive to growth.

Markle

Markle

Great Britain 2seaoat...pie in the sky.


The health care system, so beloved by the Progressives in Great Britain doesn't seem to be working as well as they would like us to believe.  Of course OURS would be so much better.


'NHS is worse than communist China,' say doctors


The NHS is worse than communist China in allowing bureaucrats to over-rule doctors and take decisions which harm patients, medics have said.

Jul. 12, 2013 3:32pm

Doctors at the British Medical Association’s annual conference in Edinburgh called for a system of regulation in response to the Mid Staffordshire Foundation trust scandal, so that managers could be “struck off” for bullying doctors, or putting finances before patients.

Dr Peter Holden, a member of the BMA’s GP negotiating committee, said the lack of regulation allowed senior managers to operate in a culture of secrecy and overt bullying, while the most extreme incidents were hidden by gagging clauses.[/color]

He said: "The result is the perfect toxic professional working environment for this explosive mixture to generate disasters such as Mid Staffordshire which did so much harm to patients. Not even in Communist China did they have managers overruling doctors in the operation of hospitals and health services.”

Doctors voted overwhelmingly in favour for a system of regulation, which would mean poor managers could be barred from working.

Robert Francis QC, chairman of the public inquiry into the serious care failings at Stafford Hospital, called for a system of regulation, saying that there should be a "proper degree of accountability for senior managers and leaders".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10141476/NHS-is-worse-than-communist-China-say-doctors.html

21Single payer health care in effect in Montana Empty Who is arguing for what??? 8/5/2013, 6:47 am

Guest


Guest

I join PBulldog, 2seaoat, and dreamsgalore in arguing that we get everyone to a doctor on a regular basis, and not to give away free healthcare.

Apparently, Markle, ., and pacedog are arguing AGAINST getting everyone to a doctor on a regular basis, and they are arguing TO keep giving away free healthcare.

Hard to tell who are the lefties and who are the righties!!!!
Until one reads the content of the post.....

Markle

Markle

CarlSagan wrote:I join PBulldog, 2seaoat, and dreamsgalore in arguing that we get everyone to a doctor on a regular basis, and not to give away free healthcare.

Apparently, Markle, ., and pacedog are arguing AGAINST getting everyone to a doctor on a regular basis, and they are arguing TO keep giving away free healthcare.

Hard to tell who are the lefties and who are the righties!!!!
Until one reads the content of the post.....

Cute try!

Guest


Guest

CarlSagan wrote:I join PBulldog, 2seaoat, and dreamsgalore in arguing that we get everyone to a doctor on a regular basis, and not to give away free healthcare.

Apparently, Markle, ., and pacedog are arguing AGAINST getting everyone to a doctor on a regular basis, and they are arguing TO keep giving away free healthcare.

Hard to tell who are the lefties and who are the righties!!!!
Until one reads the content of the post.....

To top it off they are both on highly subsidized health insurance.Twisted Evil 

24Single payer health care in effect in Montana Empty Success? 8/6/2013, 6:11 am

Guest


Guest

Markle wrote:
CarlSagan wrote:I join PBulldog, 2seaoat, and dreamsgalore in arguing that we get everyone to a doctor on a regular basis, and not to give away free healthcare.

Apparently, Markle, ., and pacedog are arguing AGAINST getting everyone to a doctor on a regular basis, and they are arguing TO keep giving away free healthcare.

Hard to tell who are the lefties and who are the righties!!!!
Until one reads the content of the post.....

Cute try!

I noticed the lack of a retort.
So, you concede that you do not want all Americans to live healthier lives by seeing a doctor on a regular basis.
And you also concede that you do want to keep giving away free healthcare even though healthcare is a full one/fifth of our entire economy.
Alas, even Markle knows when he is wrong. So it seems that I succeeded instead of trying.
Today is going to be a great day!!!

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

CarlSagan wrote:
Markle wrote:
CarlSagan wrote:I join PBulldog, 2seaoat, and dreamsgalore in arguing that we get everyone to a doctor on a regular basis, and not to give away free healthcare.

Apparently, Markle, ., and pacedog are arguing AGAINST getting everyone to a doctor on a regular basis, and they are arguing TO keep giving away free healthcare.

Hard to tell who are the lefties and who are the righties!!!!
Until one reads the content of the post.....

Cute try!

I noticed the lack of a retort.
So, you concede that you do not want all Americans to live healthier lives by seeing a doctor on a regular basis.
And you also concede that you do want to keep giving away free healthcare even though healthcare is a full one/fifth of our entire economy.  
Alas, even Markle knows when he is wrong. So it seems that I succeeded instead of trying.
Today is going to be a great day!!!

I do find it intriguing that those who are the most against instituting a national insurance program in our country tend to ignore the elephant in the room:  uncompensated care.

Those same people - the ones who rail against single payer health insurance - also accuse those of us who support single payer of trying to obtain "free" care.

Spin, spin, spin, eh?

---------------------------------------------------

Health Care Collection Statistics
http://www.acainternational.org/products-health-care-collection-statistics-5434.aspx
Facts and statistics about health care debt and collections


Average Recovery Rates

   Hospitals – 11.3 percent. (Source: ACA International’s Top Collection Markets Survey*, Jan. 1 – Dec. 31, 2012.)
   Non-hospitals – 16.7 percent. (Source: ACA International’s Top Collection Markets Survey, Jan. 1 – Dec. 31, 2012.)

Uncompensated Care/Bad Debt

   U.S. hospitals provided $41.1 billion in uncompensated care in 2011, representing 5.9 percent of annual hospital expenses.(Source: American Hospital Association, “Uncompensated Hospital Care Cost Fact Sheet,” January 2013.)
   The national average for bad debt is 3.17 percent, 2.21 percent for charity and 5.38 percent for total uncollectable accounts. The Southeast region of the U.S. had the highest percentage of total uncollectable accounts at 6.70 percent. (Source: The Hospital Accounts Report Analysis on Fourth Quarter 2012.)

Uninsured/Underinsured

   The percentage of people without health insurance declined from 16.3 percent in 2010 to 15.7 percent in 2011. The total number of uninsured decreased from 50 million in 2010 to 48.6 million in 2011. (Source: The U.S. Census Bureau, “Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2011.”).
   As of 2012, 75 million people reported problems paying their medical bills or were paying off medical debt, up from 73 million in 2010 and 58 million in 2005. An estimated 48 million people were paying off medical debt in 2012, up from 44 million in 2010 and 37 million in 2005. (Source: Press release, The Commonwealth Fund, April 26, 2013.)
   The number of Americans, of all ages, who did not have insurance at some point in 2011 was 58.7 million. (Source: Health Insurance Coverage: Early Release of Estimates From the National Health Interview Survey, 2011.)
   The uninsured rate and the number of uninsured for the native-born population decreased from 13.7 percent and 36.6 million in 2010 to 13.2 percent and 35.4 million in 2011. The uninsured rate and the number of uninsured for the foreign-born population decreased from 33.9 percent and 13.4 million in 2010 to 33.0 percent and 13.2 million in 2011. (Source: Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2011.)
   In 2011, among adults aged 19–25 years, 8.4 million (27.9 percent) were uninsured at the time of interview. (Source: Center for Disease Control, Health Insurance Coverage: Early Release of Estimates from the National Health Interview Survey, 2011, June 2012.)

Premiums

   In 2012, annual premiums for families covered by employer-sponsored health insurance were $15,745. Premiums rose 4 percent since 2011, but have risen 97 percent since 2002. (Source: The 2012 Employer Health Benefits Survey, the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust (HRET), September 2012.)

Out-of-Pocket Costs

   Annual out-of-pocket responsibility for families covered by employer-sponsored health insurance in 2012 was $4,316. (Source: The 2012 Employer Health Benefits Survey, the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust (HRET), September 2012.)

Deductibles

   The percentage of covered workers in a plan with a deductible of at least $1,000 for single coverage grew from 31 percent to 34 percent in the past year. Covered workers in small firms remain more likely than covered workers in larger firms (49 percent vs. 26 percent) to be in plans with deductibles of at least $1,000. (Source: The 2012 Employer Health Benefits Survey, the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust (HRET), September 2012.)

Cost of Care

   In 2010, 41 percent of adults (ages 19-64) reported that they had medical debt or trouble paying medical bills, and 22 percent had been contacted by a collection agency for unpaid medical bills. (Source: The Commonwealth Fund Biennial Health Insurance Survey 2012, April 2013.)
   For individuals with greater levels of obesity, lifetime medical costs are higher, ranging from $15,000 to $29,000 more than for normal weight individuals. (Source: RTI International and Merck & Co., May 29, 2008.)

Electronic Medical Records

   Although U.S. primary care doctors’ use of electronic medical records increased from 46 percent in 2009 to 69 percent in 2012, the U.S. lags far behind other leading countries, where more than 90 percent of doctors use electronic records. (Source: Press release, The Commonwealth Fund, November 15, 2012.)

Access to Care

In 2012, 43 percent of adults, or 80 million people, said they had skipped or delayed getting needed health care or filling prescriptions because of the cost. This is an increase from 75 million people who reported such problems in 2010, and 64 million in 2005. More than a quarter (28 percent) of adults with a chronic health condition said they had skipped doses or not filled a prescription for their health condition because of the cost. (Source: The Commonwealth Fund Biennial Health Insurance 2012, April 2013.)

Enrollment in Health Plans

   Enrollment in consumer-directed health plans rose 19 percent in 2012 to 39 million covered workers, up from 33 million workers in 2011. (Source: American Association of Preferred Provider Organizations Survey of Consumer-Directed Health Plans 2012, June 17, 2013.)
   Three quarters (75 percent) of covered workers in firms offering health benefits work in a firm that offers one or more PPOs; 39 percent work in firms that offer one or more HDHP/SOs; 37 percent work in firms that offer one or more HMOs; 14 percent work in firms that offer one or more POS plans; and 4 percent work in firms that offer one or more conventional plans. (Source: The 2012 Employer Health Benefits Survey, the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust (HRET), September 2012.)

Health Care Spending

   Health care spending in the United States grew 3.9 percent in 2011, to $2.7 trillion, or $8,680 per person. Health care spending grew by the same rate in 2009 and 2010. National health spending and nominal Gross Domestic Product (GDP) grew similarly in 2010 and 2011, and health spending as a share of GDP has remained stable from 2009 through 2011, at 17.9 percent. (Source: Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, National Health Expenditures 2011 Highlights.)

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 2]

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum