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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Butchmeup and John McCain on Morning Joe

Butchmeup and John McCain on Morning Joe

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Sal
Hospital Bob
2seaoat
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2seaoat



We need to have silicon valley allow government to spy on us, we need to grow the defense budget, we need to put boots on the ground in the Middle East. All the failed policies, all the wrong strategies they want us to move forward because of ISIS attacks. Some have said that I have been posting conspiracy theories and the NEOCONs are on the air telling the Israelis and Saudis that their strategy of creating ISIS has worked. Pure insanity and it is time to support our President and get this country out of the Middle East. ISIS and their creators and financial backers want us back......we must resist knee jerk reactions and we must withdraw and be vigilant and smart.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I was wondering if you were watching it since you've talked about being a regular Morning Joe viewer.

It was remarkable to see the solidarity they both (McCain and Graham) had with the cast on an MSNBC program.  It was like they were all speaking with one voice.  Sorta like immediately following 9/11.
If that's what we're seeing on MSNBC,  I cannot even imagine what the tone is on Fox and Friends this morning.  I haven't been watching but I bet it's what Fox News would have been like immediately following the attack on Pearl Harbor.  lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

And what about that clip they showed from the "Homeland" tv series on Showtime?
I didn't even know anything about that but it looks like Hollywood is getting on the bandwagon too.  According to Scarborough that was first aired two months ago,  long before the latest attacks.  And even BEFORE the Russian airliner was blown up.

Sal

Sal

For the life of me, I cannot understand why the thumbscrews aren't being put to the House of Saud.

They've had their bloody hands in all of this mess from long before 9/11 until this very day.

The symbiotic relationship between them and Western governments is shrouded in secrecy and seemingly unbreakable.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:For the life of me, I cannot understand why the thumbscrews aren't being put to the House of Saud.

They've had their bloody hands in all of this mess from long before 9/11 until this very day.

The symbiotic relationship between them and Western governments is shrouded in secrecy and seemingly unbreakable.

Ever heard of The Golden Rule?  And not the one in the Bible.  I mean the one which says "Whoever has the gold makes the rules".

Well in this case the gold is Black Gold.  Texas Tea.

Come and listen to my story
'Bout a man named Abdullah
A poor desert rat,
Barely kept his family fed.
And then one day
He was shootin' at some food,
And up through the ground came a-bubblin' crude.
Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea.
Well the first thing you know
Ol' Abdullah's a billionaire
Kinfolk said "Abdullah they need your gold".
Said "California's the place you outta be".
So they loaded up the tankers
And they moved (the oil) to Beverly.
And the rest of the world.

In other words,  follow the money.
 

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Here's what seaoat watched.  It's just a small part of a 4 hour long program which all had the same message.

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/mccain--with-our-allies--we-can-defeat-isis-567525443766

Notice McCain/Graham are allied with Obama on wanting to get rid of Assad.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:For the life of me, I cannot understand why the thumbscrews aren't being put to the House of Saud.

They've had their bloody hands in all of this mess from long before 9/11 until this very day.

The symbiotic relationship between them and Western governments is shrouded in secrecy and seemingly unbreakable.

from the wiki page on Saudi Arabia...

"The new kingdom was one of the poorest countries in the world, reliant on limited agriculture and pilgrimage revenues.[56] However, in 1938, vast reserves of oil were discovered in the Al-Ahsa region along the coast of the Persian Gulf, and full-scale development of the oil fields began in 1941 under the US-controlled Aramco (Arabian American Oil Company)."

and the saga begins

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

How Saudi Wahhabism Is the Fountainhead of Islamist Terrorism

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yousaf-butt-/saudi-wahhabism-islam-terrorism_b_6501916.html

"Exact numbers are not known, but it is thought that more than $100 billion have been spent on exporting fanatical Wahhabism to various much poorer Muslim nations worldwide over the past three decades. It might well be twice that number. By comparison, the Soviets spent about $7 billion spreading communism worldwide in the 70 years from 1921 and 1991."

And keep in mind,  much of that $100 billion came from Americans contributing it at the gas pumps.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:
The symbiotic relationship between them and Western governments is shrouded in secrecy and seemingly unbreakable.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/twenty-eight-pages

2seaoat



The President at the G 20 meetings was firm. It is a long term battle. He will not submit to knee jerk reactions which the NEOCONS are prompting. Those mistakes have caused the current crisis. The foolishness to think that our strategy is driven by terrorist attacks as Butchmeup today called for growing the military budget. The President made it clear.....boots on the ground is not going to happen, and we are NOT going to repeat the mistakes, unless we are willing to have a permanent presence.......thank you President Obama for having a sustainable long term strategy. Butchmeup has been wrong on everything and today on morning Joe, he actually said he is willing to sit down with the President and help him........twilight zone.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

There seems to be two schools of thought on this as always seems to be the case with the middle east.

One I guess could be referred to as the neoconservative position,  the one Bush,  Cheney,  McCain and most all the current republican spokespersons (except Rand Paul) take.  And markle and obamasucks.

Which is to completely ignore the American government's lengthy history of meddling in the affairs of so many middle eastern countries.  Which has entailed alliances with dictators,  subsequent abandonment of those alliances,  alliances with extremist Islamics,  subsequent abandonment of those alliances,  military coups to replace elected leaders with U.S. government puppets,  outright U.S. military invasions and occupations,  failed intelligence and diplomacy,  and a permanent alliance with Wahhabist Saudi dictators who have enabled Islamic terrorism against Western Nations including the United States.
This position totally denies that anything the United States government ever did itself has had anything to do with anything and has done nothing to create any blowback or repercussions. 
That the U.S. government is always the good guys and the leaders and people of the middle east are always the bad guys,  Period.  Regardless if the middle east leaders are viewed as bad guys one day and good guys the next day and vice versa.
In a nutshell,  it's the "they hate us for our freedoms and we need to kill them over there before they kill us over here" position.
And that the ONLY way to deal with the middle east is to maintain and occasionally step up and intensify all the same things which have been done before.
I like to call this the "let's keep on poking a stick into the hornet's nest and see if that works" position. 

The other school of thought is "let's stop poking any sticks into the hornet's nest and see if the hornets still come after us".


But we will likely never know which is the best solution.  Because it now appears the first solution is the one which will continue to prevail and the alternative solution will always be left on the cutting room floor.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Bob wrote:However, in 1938, vast reserves of oil were discovered in the Al-Ahsa region along the coast of the Persian Gulf, and full-scale development of the oil fields began in 1941 under the US-controlled Aramco (Arabian American Oil Company)."

and the saga begins

Two things will affect Saudi influence in just a few short decades: (1) Saudi Arabia is running out of oil; and (2) renewable energy (solar) is getting cheaper every year.

#1 could happen as early as 2030, and will have international implications. #2 is being driven largely by the climate-change movement, and will make very serious inroads in developed nations by 2050 and beyond.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Sal

Sal

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:

Two things will affect Saudi influence in just a few short decades: (1) Saudi Arabia is running out of oil; and (2) renewable energy (solar) is getting cheaper every year.

#1 could happen as early as 2030, and will have international implications. #2 is being driven largely by the climate-change movement, and will make very serious inroads in developed nations by 2050 and beyond.

Which makes their influence appear even more disproportionate.

Our biggest problem in Syria is that the Saudis insist on prioritizing the topple of Assad over anything and everything.

Our priority should be rolling up Daesh and Al Qaeda, but the Saudis are at best indifferent and at worst fully supportive of those movements.

gatorfan



Salinsky wrote:
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:

Two things will affect Saudi influence in just a few short decades: (1) Saudi Arabia is running out of oil; and (2) renewable energy (solar) is getting cheaper every year.

#1 could happen as early as 2030, and will have international implications. #2 is being driven largely by the climate-change movement, and will make very serious inroads in developed nations by 2050 and beyond.

Which makes their influence appear even more disproportionate.

Our biggest problem in Syria is that the Saudis insist on prioritizing the topple of Assad over anything and everything.

Our priority should be rolling up Daesh and Al Qaeda, but the Saudis are at best indifferent and at worst fully supportive of those movements.


Actually OUR biggest problem in Syria is that Obama insists Assad must go...what if he gets his wish - what's plan B? There isn't one, just a larger power vacuum that will be filled by extremists with all those nifty nation-state weapons to play with.

Even Putin realizes that.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Okay, it is time for me to put my tinfoil hat on....

What does the Bilderberg Group want? They manage to pull enough political strings to get world leaders to follow their plan (which is never publicized). I am sure they have at least a pinky-print on the happenings with ISIS, Syria, and everything else.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Sal

Sal

gatorfan wrote:
Salinsky wrote:
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:

Two things will affect Saudi influence in just a few short decades: (1) Saudi Arabia is running out of oil; and (2) renewable energy (solar) is getting cheaper every year.

#1 could happen as early as 2030, and will have international implications. #2 is being driven largely by the climate-change movement, and will make very serious inroads in developed nations by 2050 and beyond.

Which makes their influence appear even more disproportionate.

Our biggest problem in Syria is that the Saudis insist on prioritizing the topple of Assad over anything and everything.

Our priority should be rolling up Daesh and Al Qaeda, but the Saudis are at best indifferent and at worst fully supportive of those movements.


Actually OUR biggest problem in Syria is that Obama insists Assad must go...what if he gets his wish - what's plan B? There isn't one, just a larger power vacuum that will be filled by extremists with all those nifty nation-state weapons to play with.

Even Putin realizes that.

Well, ultimately, Obama is right.

Assad has too much of his own countrymen's blood on his hands to ever effectively govern a functional Syria as we once knew it.

There will have to be a transition to something else, if Syria is to return to one piece.

I think that even the Russians would begrudgingly agree with that.

It's just not, or shouldn't be, our top priority.

My point is, I can't understand why Saudi Arabia is given carte blanche to act as they please - funding and supporting these radical actors who are a real threat to the United States and our European allies.

They should be told in no uncertain terms to cut it out immediately or the spigot will be turned off completely.

2seaoat



Actually OUR biggest problem in Syria is that Obama insists Assad must go...what if he gets his wish - what's plan B? There isn't one, just a larger power vacuum that will be filled by extremists with all those nifty nation-state weapons to play with.

Even Putin realizes that.


The President at G20 was clear. Assad steps down with a provisional government and a NO FLY cease fire enforced by G20 nations and a free election for seating a new government. You are correct that we will need the Russian cooperation on this, but clearly they have motivation now.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:Actually OUR biggest problem in Syria is that Obama insists Assad must go...what if he gets his wish - what's plan B? There isn't one, just a larger power vacuum that will be filled by extremists with all those nifty nation-state weapons to play with.

Even Putin realizes that.


The President at G20 was clear. Assad steps down with a provisional government and a NO FLY cease fire enforced by G20 nations and a free election for seating a new government. You are correct that we will need the Russian cooperation on this, but clearly they have motivation now.

Lol... Y'all must smoke the same shit that obama does. Assad is going nowhere... russia is making sure of that... and obama is sitting on his thumb talking bs. He needs to just get the hell out of dodge like he promised... he has no bullets in his gun.

2seaoat



He has bullets. The Russians have bullets. The French have bullets. The Israelis have bullets. The Saudis have bullets. The Brits have bullets. The Iranians have bullets. We are taking the right strategy. We will have Americans killed by terrorist under this President. We will have Americans killed under the next President. What we will not have is boots on the ground. Those who want more military profits and America shielding their countries will guarantee more terrorist attacks will happen. The President will calmly stay the course. We need to cut the defense budget drastically so this option of more expeditions in foreign countries is taken off the table. Butchmeup is going to advise the President.......what arrogance......he does not have a clue that nobody in the Republican Party wants his advise, and sure as hell Americans have had enough of bought and paid for traitors working for other interests.

Sal

Sal

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/16/g20-barack-obama-and-vladimir-putin-agree-to-syrian-led-transition

boards of FL

boards of FL

Salinsky wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/16/g20-barack-obama-and-vladimir-putin-agree-to-syrian-led-transition



(passes spliff to PkrBum)


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote: We have bullets.  The Russians have bullets.  The French have bullets.  The Israelis have bullets.  The Saudis have bullets.  The Brits have bullets.  The Iranians have bullets. 

Sounds like we're all living in one large munitions dump.  Let's just hope nobody standing near it strikes a match.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Put that match out,  markle.  And you shouldn't be smoking cigarettes anyway,  it will stunt your growth.

Guest


Guest

Wow... y'all are easy.

You've even been able to hear him negotiate on a hot mic and it doesn't faze the gullibility factor... lol.

Putin might be the one that actually accomplishes something. He's reported to be brokering between israel and iran/syria. I don't believe everything I read like you bozos... but it's more likely than obama's politicized pipedreams. I've never seen as much disorganized policies from a potus... and that includes carter. Carry on comrades... pretend this is the foreign policy you voted for in 2008. If you all do it... that makes it true.

boards of FL

boards of FL

PkrBum wrote:Wow... y'all are easy.

You've even been able to hear  him negotiate on a hot mic and it doesn't faze the gullibility factor... lol.

Putin might be the one that actually accomplishes something. He's reported to be brokering between israel and iran/syria. I don't believe everything I read like you bozos... but it's more likely than obama's politicized pipedreams. I've never seen as much disorganized policies from a potus... and that includes carter. Carry on comrades... pretend this is the foreign policy you voted for in 2008. If you all do it... that makes it true.



What course of action do you currently advocate with respect to Syria?


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