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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Obama Rejects Keystone XL Pipeline

Obama Rejects Keystone XL Pipeline

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Floridatexan
gatorfan
EmeraldGhost
2seaoat
ZVUGKTUBM
Sal
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Sal

Sal

Washington (CNN)President Barack Obama on Friday rejected the proposed Keystone XL pipeline, ending the political fight over the Canada-to-Texas project that has gone on for much of his presidency.

Secretary of State John Kerry concluded the controversial project is not in the country's national security interest, and Obama announced from the White House that he agreed with the decision.

"America is now a global leader when it comes to taking serious action to fight climate change, and frankly approving this project would have undercut that leadership," Obama said.

The massive project has been a seven-year political football during presidential and congressional elections that has pitted oil companies and Republicans against environmentalists and liberal activists. The State Department has been reviewing the project for much of Obama's time in the White House.

The move comes as the White House continues to promote its environmental agenda and efforts to fight climate change. Next month, Obama will attend the Paris climate talks, he announced Friday. The White House is hoping to broker an international agreement committing every country to reduce carbon dioxide emissions and enact other policies to curb global warming.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/politics/keystone-xl-pipeline-decision-rejection-kerry/index.html

Guest


Guest

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/world/asia/china-burns-much-more-coal-than-reported-complicating-climate-talks.html

BEIJING —China,the world’s leading emitter of greenhouse gases from coal,has been burning up to 17 percent more coal a year than the government previously disclosed,according to newly released data. The finding could complicate the already difficult efforts to limit global warming.

Even for a country of China’s size,the scale of the correction is immense. The sharp upward revision in official figures means that China has released much more carbon dioxide —almost a billion more tons a year according to initial calculations —than previously estimated.

The increase alone is greater than the whole German economy emits annually from fossil fuels.

Officials from around the world will have to come to grips with the new figures when they gather in Paris this month to negotiate an international framework for curtailing greenhouse-gas pollution. The data also pose a challenge for scientists who are trying to reduce China’s smog,which often bathes whole regions in acrid,unhealthy haze.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Buy BNSF Railroad stock. They are deep into hauling oil by rail to refineries, including oil derived from the Athabasca Oil Sands in Alberta.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

2seaoat



The first half of the pipeline has been operating safely for almost eight years. The President rejecting the pipeline does not stop the oil already flowing in the first leg of the Keystone, and it does not stop the train and trucks delivering the same oil. The politics of this are simply stupid.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

2seaoat wrote:The first half of the pipeline has been operating safely for almost eight years.  The President rejecting the pipeline does not stop the oil already flowing in the first leg of the Keystone, and it does not stop the train and trucks delivering the same oil.   The politics of this are simply stupid.

The politics is being driven by climate change activism. Nothing Americans do will stop the Canadians from extracting all 175 billion barrels of recoverable bitumen from the Canadian tar sands. The exception would be a further crash in the price of oil, which would make development of the oil-sands un-economical until the price per barrel rose again.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Sal

Sal

2seaoat wrote: The politics of this are simply stupid.

Nope, the politics of this are most exquisite.

The stars really seem to align for President Obama.

Plummeting gasoline prices rendered the pipeline superfluous, the economy is booming without the pipeline so the economic argument is moot, the President was moved by a bipartisan grassroots movement of the people, the issue is removed from the campaign trail, and the United States is positioned perfectly as the global leader on climate change.

"America's now a global leader when it comes to taking serious action to fight climate change. And, frankly, approving this project would have undercut that global leadership. And that's the biggest risk we face – not acting. Today, we're continuing to lead by example because ultimately, if we're going to prevent large parts of this planet from becoming not only inhospitable, but uninhabitable, in our lifetimes, we're going to have to leave some fossil fuels in the ground rather than burn them."

Obama Rejects Keystone XL Pipeline IcDAkh

Guest


Guest

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/2nd-train-derails-wisconsin-days-spills-crude-oil-35057709

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Correct me if I am wrong, I don't know every detail there is to know about the XL pipeline, but .... I read the other day there is already a pipeline from Canada down to Oklahoma which then further branches to refineries & shipping terminals in the Gulf States.    And that pipeline is running at full capacity due to increased oil production from Canada.   The XL pipeline will actually be a second pipeline down to Oklahoma in addition to the existing one to increase capacity.   Otherwise the oil will continue to flow via rail & older existing pipelines ... which is more dangerous to the environment.  


Keystone XL is basically just another pipeline; a little longer and larger than most, but not unusually so, and it goes nowhere pipelines don’t already go. All it does is increase the capacity of the existing Keystone pipeline system, which has already transported over 550 million barrels of Canadian heavy crude from Alberta to the US. The crude Keystone XL delivers will make no difference to US crude imports; it will simply displace crude imports from elsewhere. And if Keystone XL doesn’t get built the crude it would have carried will go somewhere else, meaning that no CO2 emissions would be saved by not building it. (Although building it probably would save CO2 emissions because much of the Canadian crude that now moves south on trucks and rail tankers would pass through Keystone instead.)

Obama Rejects Keystone XL Pipeline Ada1338

 http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Keystone-XL-Pipeline-Why-The-Big-Fuss.html  


We have lots of pipelines running through this country and many of them aging.  http://www.theodora.com/pipelines/united_states_pipelines_map.jpg As an example, I understand the pipeline that sprang a leak up in Arkansas a year or two ago was nearly 70 years old!

So what's the problem .... we want to keep moving oil through this country via rail & 50+ year old pipelines instead of building  newer, safer pipeline infrastructure?   I don't get it.   I thought Democrats wanted to update/improve our national infrastructure?

gatorfan



Only a hyper-partisan liberal would think this is anything but political grandstanding that serves no purpose. They apparently don't think it's a good idea to add depth to our energy infrastructure and probably believe oil prices will never change again. Yet they are the first to whine about our dependence on M/E oil without offering any real cost-effective alternatives. As usual.

Their naivety is astounding.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

2seaoat wrote:The first half of the pipeline has been operating safely for almost eight years.  The President rejecting the pipeline does not stop the oil already flowing in the first leg of the Keystone, and it does not stop the train and trucks delivering the same oil.   The politics of this are simply stupid.

There have been at least 12 leaks from the initial phase of the pipeline. Can you see inside those trains and tankers? The oil is coming from the Bakken formation. The Canadian tar sands oil is not the same...and it is probably no longer economically feasible to recover it, with the drop in oil prices. Plus, Canada just dumped Harper for Trudeau.

Guest


Guest

Warren buffett has seen a good return on his obama investment.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

We replace & improve 50 year old highway bridges & increase highway capacity to meet demand. Why would we not want to do the same with our antiquated pipeline system? It's all national infrastructure. Green energy is fine but the world is still gonna need the old-fashioned kind for many decades to come.

“These infrastructures have not kept pace with changes in the volume and geography of oil and gas production. The nation’s ports, waterways and rail systems are congested, with the growing demand for handling energy commodities increasingly in competition with transport needs for food and other non-energy freight,” the report reads in part. “Although improvements are being made, much of the relevant infrastructure — pipelines, rail systems, ports and waterways alike — is long overdue for repairs and modernization.” http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/billions-dollars-needed-fix-aging-vulnerable-us-en/


"Most experts agree that America’s infrastructure needs an upgrade. Some say it needs a complete re-think. More than half of America’s natural gas transmission pipelines were installed before 1970, government data show; the same holds true for pipelines that carry hazardous liquids such as gasoline, diesel and jet fuel. And pipelines are just a fraction of the nation’s vast tangle of infrastructure — the roads, cables, wires, conduits, drains, satellites and switches that enable the flow of everything from sewage to Facebook posts." http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/americas-aging-infrastructure-what-to-fix-and-who-will-pay/

gatorfan



Let's not take a privately funded pipeline extension with more safe guards planned than a nuclear reactor that also cuts the corner of an existing pipeline. That would be dangerous thus sayeth the Great Pretender Obama. As if he knew.

Obama Rejects Keystone XL Pipeline _79108473_canada_usa_pipeline_464_v4

boards of FL

boards of FL

Everyone is missing the real issue here.

We need to invest heavily in interstate horse and buggy infrastructure. Just imagine all of the jobs!


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EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

boards of FL wrote:Everyone is missing the real issue here.

We need to invest heavily in interstate horse and buggy infrastructure.  Just imagine all of the jobs!  

Well, haven't seen a lot of horse & buggies lately.   Not since I lived close to an Amish community north of Kansas City anyway.

What I have seen though is lots of cars & trucks on the road.  Everybody, everyday.  More than ever before.   99.9% of them petroleum fueled.  

Get back to us when you have those solar powered cars, trucks, boats, trains, and lawnmowers ready for market.   In the meantime .... can we at least modernize the antiquated infrastructure we currently have? Pipelines included. Why are you against progress, modernization, and environmental safety?

boards of FL

boards of FL

EmeraldGhost wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Everyone is missing the real issue here.

We need to invest heavily in interstate horse and buggy infrastructure.  Just imagine all of the jobs!  
 

Get back to us when you have those solar powered cars, trucks, boats, trains, and lawnmowers ready for market.   In the meantime .... can we at least modernize the antiquated infrastructure we currently have?   Pipelines included.   Why are you against progress, modernization, and environmental safety?  




I'd like to be able to get back to you on that, though for now I'm stuck living in a country where we're more concerned with building new oil pipelines than we are with moving towards renewal energy.


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gatorfan



boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Everyone is missing the real issue here.

We need to invest heavily in interstate horse and buggy infrastructure.  Just imagine all of the jobs!  
 

Get back to us when you have those solar powered cars, trucks, boats, trains, and lawnmowers ready for market.   In the meantime .... can we at least modernize the antiquated infrastructure we currently have?   Pipelines included.   Why are you against progress, modernization, and environmental safety?  




I'd like to be able to get back to you on that, though for now I'm stuck living in a country where we're more concerned with building new oil pipelines than we are with moving towards renewal energy.

LOL. A little "technology impaired" aren't you? Perhaps you need to "sticky" to your little jobs charts.

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Everyone is missing the real issue here.

We need to invest heavily in interstate horse and buggy infrastructure.  Just imagine all of the jobs!  
 

Get back to us when you have those solar powered cars, trucks, boats, trains, and lawnmowers ready for market.   In the meantime .... can we at least modernize the antiquated infrastructure we currently have?   Pipelines included.   Why are you against progress, modernization, and environmental safety?  




I'd like to be able to get back to you on that, though for now I'm stuck living in a country where we're more concerned with building new oil pipelines than we are with moving towards renewal energy.

LOL. A little "technology impaired" aren't you? Perhaps you need to "sticky" to your little jobs charts.



I know you are but what am I?


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gatorfan



boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Everyone is missing the real issue here.

We need to invest heavily in interstate horse and buggy infrastructure.  Just imagine all of the jobs!  
 

Get back to us when you have those solar powered cars, trucks, boats, trains, and lawnmowers ready for market.   In the meantime .... can we at least modernize the antiquated infrastructure we currently have?   Pipelines included.   Why are you against progress, modernization, and environmental safety?  




I'd like to be able to get back to you on that, though for now I'm stuck living in a country where we're more concerned with building new oil pipelines than we are with moving towards renewal energy.

LOL. A little "technology impaired" aren't you? Perhaps you need to "sticky" to your little jobs charts.



I know you are but what am I?

Other than a little boy-child (as proven by your childish response) I just don't know. Perhaps your Mommy can break the news to you.

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Everyone is missing the real issue here.

We need to invest heavily in interstate horse and buggy infrastructure.  Just imagine all of the jobs!  
 

Get back to us when you have those solar powered cars, trucks, boats, trains, and lawnmowers ready for market.   In the meantime .... can we at least modernize the antiquated infrastructure we currently have?   Pipelines included.   Why are you against progress, modernization, and environmental safety?  




I'd like to be able to get back to you on that, though for now I'm stuck living in a country where we're more concerned with building new oil pipelines than we are with moving towards renewal energy.

LOL. A little "technology impaired" aren't you? Perhaps you need to "sticky" to your little jobs charts.



I know you are but what am I?

Other than a little boy-child (as proven by your childish response) I just don't know. Perhaps your Mommy can break the news to you.



Childish response? My response was no less substantive than what I was responding to.


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polecat

polecat

gatorfan wrote:Let's not take a privately funded pipeline extension with more safe guards planned than a nuclear reactor that also cuts the corner of an existing pipeline. That would be dangerous thus sayeth the Great Pretender Obama. As if he knew.

Obama Rejects Keystone XL Pipeline _79108473_canada_usa_pipeline_464_v4

Next Stop after Port Arthur... CHINA!
your map stopped a little short

polecat

polecat

Keystone XL is like Canada sharing their cable service with China but running the actual cable through your apartment and you pay if it breaks. J.F.


Republicans claim that Keystone XL is a jobs creating project. If they really believed this, why would they vote down Sen. Al Frankens amendment requiring that the pipeline be built with American Steel?

Republican that's why.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Everyone is missing the real issue here.

We need to invest heavily in interstate horse and buggy infrastructure.  Just imagine all of the jobs!  
 

Get back to us when you have those solar powered cars, trucks, boats, trains, and lawnmowers ready for market.   In the meantime .... can we at least modernize the antiquated infrastructure we currently have?   Pipelines included.   Why are you against progress, modernization, and environmental safety?  




I'd like to be able to get back to you on that, though for now I'm stuck living in a country where we're more concerned with building new oil pipelines than we are with moving towards renewal energy.

Why can't we be concerned with both?

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

polecat wrote:
gatorfan wrote:Let's not take a privately funded pipeline extension with more safe guards planned than a nuclear reactor that also cuts the corner of an existing pipeline. That would be dangerous thus sayeth the Great Pretender Obama. As if he knew.

Obama Rejects Keystone XL Pipeline _79108473_canada_usa_pipeline_464_v4

Next Stop after Port Arthur... CHINA!
your map stopped a little short

I don't have a problem with that.

So Canada ships their oil through the US & we get to skim pipeline, refining, and transportation fees. It's going to China either way .... may as well go through us. And it will boost the Canadian economy which is good for us also.

Or perhaps you'd rather the Chinese fronted the money (& steel) for a trans-Rocky Mountain pipeline & refineries/terminals on Canada's west coast?

boards of FL

boards of FL

EmeraldGhost wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Everyone is missing the real issue here.

We need to invest heavily in interstate horse and buggy infrastructure.  Just imagine all of the jobs!  
 

Get back to us when you have those solar powered cars, trucks, boats, trains, and lawnmowers ready for market.   In the meantime .... can we at least modernize the antiquated infrastructure we currently have?   Pipelines included.   Why are you against progress, modernization, and environmental safety?  




I'd like to be able to get back to you on that, though for now I'm stuck living in a country where we're more concerned with building new oil pipelines than we are with moving towards renewal energy.

Why can't we be concerned with both?


Because we don't need a new oil pipeline.  On the other hand, we do need to invest in roads, bridges, highways, etc. And we do need to invest more in renewal sources of energy.

Fossil fuels are finite, the world scientific community agrees unanimously that the use of fossil fuels is the driving factor behind rising global temperatures, and we already have the technology available - today - to meet our needs with renewable energy.  

We know - whether we like it or not - that we will inevitably have to move to renewal sources of energy.  That is a given.  That transition is being slowed greatly by the fossil fuel industry's influence on our politics.  

Less pipelines.  More wind and solar.


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