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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » Anyone here seen "American Sniper? I'd like to get your reaction to it.

Anyone here seen "American Sniper? I'd like to get your reaction to it.

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TEOTWAWKI
2seaoat
cool1
Hospital Bob
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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Michael Moore has said two things.

One,  that all snipers are murderers.  This what he tweeted...

"My uncle killed by sniper in WW2. We were taught snipers were cowards. Will shoot u in the back. Snipers aren't heroes."

Here's the other thing he's said...

"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy."


Well for those not familiar with the book/movie "American Sniper",  the "Iraqi insurgency" also had a legendary sniper in it's ranks.  He was known to the Americans as "The Butcher" and the American forces (and particularly Chris Kyle) desperately wanted to take him out.

So which is it,  Michael Moore?
Was the Butcher a freedom fighter rising up against the occupation of his homeland?  
Or was he a cowardly murderer as you say all snipers are?  
Of course Michael Moore will never be asked this question because he's above all that.  lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Sal wrote:

Buy a clue.

I still have no clue about what this reply is supposed to mean. I'm still waiting for an explanation. But it looks like I won't be getting one. lol

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


You've seen the movie, Bob. Enlighten the rest of us who haven't had the experience. Was Kyle a hero?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Floridatexan wrote:
You've seen the movie, Bob.  Enlighten the rest of us who haven't had the experience.  Was Kyle a hero?  

I know you want a yes or no answer like Sean Hannity always demands,  tex.  But I just can't give you one.
But I'm sure glad you asked the question because it gives rise to the larger question. The one which applies to all soldiers.

And that question is this.  If a nation goes to war unjustly and causes the deaths of others unjustly,  then does it follow that it's minions (the individuals in it's military who are the ones actually fighting the war) are just as responsible for for the injustice as the nation's leaders who sent them to war?

The question applies to the British soldiers killing "patriots" in the American
Revolution.
The question applies to the Nazi and Imperial Japanese soldiers killing allied troops in World War 2.
The question applies to the American soldiers fighting in Vietnam.
And it applies to Chris Kyle and the American soldiers fighting in Iraq.

It's not an easy question to give a yes or no answer to.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I can tell you how another poster answered that question, tex. He called himself "AmericanWays" and we called him "amway" for short.

Amway told me anyone who refuses to fight for his nation, any nation, "has a special place reserved in hell for him". I then asked him if the same thing applied to Nazi Germany soldiers who refused to fight for Hitler. He answered "yes, including those".

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Bob wrote:I can tell you how another poster answered that question,  tex.  He called himself "AmericanWays" and we called him "amway" for short.

Amway told me anyone who refuses to fight for his nation,  any nation,  "has a special place reserved in hell for him".  I then asked him if the same thing applied to Nazi Germany soldiers who refused to fight for Hitler.  He answered "yes,  including those".

I remember AmWay, Bob. And I'm afraid this American Sniper movie disgusts me in the same way that he did. Does an 18-year-old with stars (& stripes) in his eyes...willing to go the distance for what he believes in...qualify as a murderer or as a hero...or somewhere in between? What if he's a draftee, as in Vietnam? In that case, he really has little choice in the matter. But if he enlists for what he BELIEVES to be a cause of righteousness, I'd say, yes...deluded, maybe, but keeping with his own belief system...doing what he thinks is right. But there's something sinister about this guy...the whole Craft International business...getting shot on his own range. Something is creepy...like maybe he knew too much. At any rate, I don't wish to watch any glorification of Bush's wars of aggression. And of course, 9/11 as a consideration won't sway me because I believe BushCo was complicit.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm

Military members who fail to obey the lawful orders of their superiors risk serious consequences. Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) makes it a crime for a military member to WILLFULLY disobey a superior commissioned officer. Article 91 makes it a crime to WILLFULLY disobey a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer. Article 92 makes it a crime to disobey any lawful order (the disobedience does not have to be "willful" under this article).
In fact, under Article 90, during times of war, a military member who willfully disobeys a superior commissioned officer can be sentenced to death.
Seems like pretty good motivation to obey any order you're given, right? Nope. These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal.
"I was only following orders," has been unsuccessfully used as a legal defense in hundreds of cases (probably most notably by Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg tribunals following World War II). The defense didn't work for them, nor has it worked in hundreds of cases since.



.....What about an order to participate in a dangerous mission? Can the military legally order one to go on a "suicide mission?" You bet they can

.....In fact, if it can be shown that one or more of the soldiers influenced others to disobey, they may find the crime of Mutiny, under Article 94 added to the list of charges. Mutiny carries the death penalty, even in "peace time."

Sal

Sal

I'm not interested in seeing the lionization of a unrepentant mass murderer and whitewash of U.S. history.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Sal wrote:I'm not interested in seeing the lionization of a unrepentant mass murderer and whitewash of U.S. history.

I finally got my answer to what "buy a clue" meant. lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

You must remember that Kyle's role as a sniper was to provide protection for other Marines who were on the ground and vulnerable to being attacked.
In one situation, he drew a bead on a woman suicide bomber who was running toward American troops carrying a large grenade.
He agonized over shooting the woman to the point that he let her get very close to blowing up the Americans before he finally brought himself to pull the trigger.
Try to put yourself in his place in that situation. If you don't shoot the woman you let her kill a bunch of your own comrades.

Yella

Yella

Floridatexan wrote:
You've seen the movie, Bob.  Enlighten the rest of us who haven't had the experience.  Was Kyle a hero?  

Y'all consider this:

Lets say it is 1772 in New England and a British Marksman with the finest equipment available in the world is sent there to shoot Americans that he sees deterring progress of Redcoats marching into the interior. He has been sent to protect the Redcoats who are being killed by Americans shooting from the woods. Lets say he kills over one hundred American patriots who are trying to protect the land they were born in, had families in for over a hundred and fifty years. Fighting the British invaders with everything they have,

Would that British Sniper be a hero?








http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Sal

Sal

Yella wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
You've seen the movie, Bob.  Enlighten the rest of us who haven't had the experience.  Was Kyle a hero?  

Y'all consider this:

Lets say it is 1772 in New England and a British Marksman with the finest equipment available in the world is sent there to shoot Americans that he sees deterring progress of Redcoats marching into the interior. He has been sent to protect the Redcoats who are being killed by Americans shooting from the woods. Lets say he kills over one hundred American patriots who are trying to protect the land they were born in, had families in for over a hundred and fifty years. Fighting the British invaders with everything they have,

Would that British Sniper be a hero?

Whatever.

How'd you like the movie?

I would think it's right up your racist alley.







Yella

Yella

Sal wrote:
Yella wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
You've seen the movie, Bob.  Enlighten the rest of us who haven't had the experience.  Was Kyle a hero?  

Y'all consider this:

Lets say it is 1772 in New England and a British Marksman with the finest equipment available in the world is sent there to shoot Americans that he sees deterring progress of Redcoats marching into the interior. He has been sent to protect the Redcoats who are being killed by Americans shooting from the woods. Lets say he kills over one hundred American patriots who are trying to protect the land they were born in, had families in for over a hundred and fifty years. Fighting the British invaders with everything they have,



Would that British Sniper be a hero?

Whatever.  

How'd you like the movie?

I would think it's right up your racist alley.


I didn't fall asleep.




http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Yella wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
You've seen the movie, Bob.  Enlighten the rest of us who haven't had the experience.  Was Kyle a hero?  

Y'all consider this:

Lets say it is 1772 in New England and a British Marksman with the finest equipment available in the world is sent there to shoot Americans that he sees deterring progress of Redcoats marching into the interior. He has been sent to protect the Redcoats who are being killed by Americans shooting from the woods. Lets say he kills over one hundred American patriots who are trying to protect the land they were born in, had families in for over a hundred and fifty years. Fighting the British invaders with everything they have,

Would that British Sniper be a hero?

He would be a hero to one side and a murderer to the other. Just like Kyle. And just like the Iraqi "Butcher".

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

[quote="Sal"]
Yella wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
You've seen the movie, Bob.  Enlighten the rest of us who haven't had the experience.  Was Kyle a hero?  

Y'all consider this:

Lets say it is 1772 in New England and a British Marksman with the finest equipment available in the world is sent there to shoot Americans that he sees deterring progress of Redcoats marching into the interior. He has been sent to protect the Redcoats who are being killed by Americans shooting from the woods. Lets say he kills over one hundred American patriots who are trying to protect the land they were born in, had families in for over a hundred and fifty years. Fighting the British invaders with everything they have,

Would that British Sniper be a hero?

Whatever.  

How'd you like the movie?

I would think it's right up your racist alley.

You're as bad as seaoat with throwing that "racist" word around so freely.
In this case you don't have any idea what you're talking about. As the ending credits were rolling and I asked Yella for his reaction to the movie, he said it was a mixed reaction and that he kept thinking about how the war should not even have happened. Which I told him is the same thing I'd been thinking about.
So stick that word "racist" up your fucking ass.



Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:
Sal wrote:
Yella wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
You've seen the movie, Bob.  Enlighten the rest of us who haven't had the experience.  Was Kyle a hero?  

Y'all consider this:

Lets say it is 1772 in New England and a British Marksman with the finest equipment available in the world is sent there to shoot Americans that he sees deterring progress of Redcoats marching into the interior. He has been sent to protect the Redcoats who are being killed by Americans shooting from the woods. Lets say he kills over one hundred American patriots who are trying to protect the land they were born in, had families in for over a hundred and fifty years. Fighting the British invaders with everything they have,

Would that British Sniper be a hero?

Whatever.  

How'd you like the movie?

I would think it's right up your racist alley.

You're as bad as seaoat with throwing that "racist" word around so freely.
In this case you don't have any idea what you're talking about.  As the ending credits were rolling and I asked Yella for his reaction to the movie,  he said it was a mixed reaction and that he kept thinking about how the war should not even have happened.  Which I told him is the same thing I'd been thinking about.
So stick that word "racist" up your fucking ass.




You're right.

I shoulda said "bigot".

Yella

Yella

Bob wrote:
Sal wrote:
Yella wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
You've seen the movie, Bob.  Enlighten the rest of us who haven't had the experience.  Was Kyle a hero?  

Y'all consider this:

Lets say it is 1772 in New England and a British Marksman with the finest equipment available in the world is sent there to shoot Americans that he sees deterring progress of Redcoats marching into the interior. He has been sent to protect the Redcoats who are being killed by Americans shooting from the woods. Lets say he kills over one hundred American patriots who are trying to protect the land they were born in, had families in for over a hundred and fifty years. Fighting the British invaders with everything they have,

Would that British Sniper be a hero?

Whatever.  

How'd you like the movie?

I would think it's right up your racist alley.

You're as bad as seaoat with throwing that "racist" word around so freely.
In this case you don't have any idea what you're talking about.  As the ending credits were rolling and I asked Yella for his reaction to the movie,  he said it was a mixed reaction and that he kept thinking about how the war should not even have happened.  Which I told him is the same thing I'd been thinking about.
So stick that word "racist" up your fucking ass.


Well said, my friend, you have such a way with words. LOL



http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Guest


Guest

I won't be seeing it. When you've had family on the ground over there it brings up too many emotions. True heroes do not speak of their "fame" and family members do not seek to make money from their service.

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