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Ebola quarantines the right thing to do

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ZVUGKTUBM
Joanimaroni
dumpcare
Sal
8 posters

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Guest


Guest

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/nyregion/ebola-quarantine.html?_r=0&referrer=

If we're not going to ban flights,
Then those choosing to go to and Fro from these areas should be quarantined to ensure others are not infected. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few here. I think quarantines are correct and the COWH needs to sthu trying to tell states what to do on this issue.

Sal

Sal

Screw the Constitution, PeeDawg is ascaird!!

Screw what the doctors and scientists say, the politicians know better!!

Guest


Guest

Sal wrote:Screw the Constitution, PeeDawg is ascaird!!

Screw what the doctors and scientists say, the politicians know better!!


Do you have a cure in your pocket we don't know about or what? Even the scientists have no clue. The Russians have no clue as they even tried to weaponize Ebola in the 80s.

dumpcare



Where in the constitution does it say, that one can put other's life's in danger? Where?

They are doing the right thing, since the health care worker's will not quarantine themselves before coming back.

Sal

Sal

Quarantining healthy people because they might become ill is just craven political bullshit designed to placate the easily frightened masses.

These people are not a threat unless they're sick.

This hysteria is getting completely out of hand.

Cable news fanning the flames is bad enough.

Politicians doing so to gin up votes from low-info voters is just disgusting.

Guest


Guest

Sal wrote:Quarantining healthy people because they might become ill is just craven political bullshit designed to placate the easily frightened masses.

These people are not a threat unless they're sick.

This hysteria is getting completely out of hand.

Cable news fanning the flames is bad enough.

Politicians doing so to gin up votes from low-info voters is just disgusting.

Until there is a cure, quarantine. Nobody forces you to go to Ebolaland. People should have consideration for others and not be a ______ like yourself.

Sal

Sal

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

Until there is a cure, quarantine. Nobody forces you to go to Ebolaland. People should have consideration for others and not be a ______

These are incredibly brave and selfless people who are willing to go and face the blind panic of an epidemic, and beat it back through the sheer force of their expertise and humanity.

And, you call them assholes.

And, try to make it harder for them to get home.

You are a gutless coward and a scumbag of the lowest order.

dumpcare



You must be around the age of these healthcare worker's, I can tell because it's all about me, me, me and fuck the rest. No responsibility for one's action's. If they are truly devoted healthcare worker's then they would voluntarily quarantine themselves, but not all have.

Guest


Guest

Nope they ride the subway,
Go to
The bowling alley et al. It's all about them and to heck with everyone else

Sal

Sal

ppaca wrote:it's all about me, me, me and fuck the rest. No responsibility for one's action's.

This was actually written in regards to volunteer healthcare workers who are brave enough to travel halfway around the globe to be on the front lines fighting back against a global pandemic in a third world country.

Here you see the lizard brain at work.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Sal wrote:
ppaca wrote:it's all about me, me, me and fuck the rest. No responsibility for one's action's.

This was actually written in regards to volunteer healthcare workers who are brave enough to travel halfway around the globe to be on the front lines fighting back against a global pandemic in a third world country.

Here you see the lizard brain at work.

You are right....these workers put their lives at risk and on hold to travel around the globe to be on the front lines of a country devasted with disease. 21 days of quarantine should not be a problem to ensure the safety of family and friends.

Guest


Guest

Exactly. I didn't see any of these
Brave people going to Iraq or Adtan with me from 2001-2011 when I was going .....

Sal

Sal

Nothing should be done to discourage these courageous men and women from going there to fight the scourge where it must be fought.

Guest


Guest

You were not saying
That in regards to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. They've had a decade of bravery. I don't see you speaking about that at all.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Exactly. I didn't see any of these
Brave people going to Iraq or Adtan with me from 2001-2011 when I was going .....

What does the ebola scourge have anything to do with your combat record in Iraq or Afghanistan? Oh, I forgot, you don't like to waste an opportunity to remind us that "you were there."

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

dumpcare



http://www.infowars.com/u-s-army-ebola-goes-airborne-once-temperature-drops/

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cidrap.asp

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/10/ebola_won_t_go_airborne_explaining_why_spread_by_air_is_a_myth_video.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1997182/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-u-s-soldiers-returning-from-liberia-placed-in-isolation-in-italy/

Joanie is correct

Sal

Sal

No, she's fundamentally wrong.

Anything that discourages people or resources from going to West Africa to help is counterproductive.

These people are medical professionals and can monitor themselves.

They do not need to be imprisoned.

Instead of worrying about getting sneezed on in the subway, here's what you need to be worried about ....


The conventional (smart) wisdom is that we should not panic about Ebola in the United States (or Europe). That is certainly true because, even with its huge warts, US and European health-care systems are well-equipped to handle the few cases of Ebola that might pop up.

However, we should panic. We should panic at the lack of care and concern we are showing about the epidemic where it is truly ravaging; we should panic at the lack of global foresight in not containing this epidemic, now, the only time it can be fully contained; and we should panic about what this reveals about how ineffective our global decision-making infrastructure has become. Containing Ebola is a no-brainer, and not that expensive. If we fail at this, when we know exactly what to do, how are we going to tackle the really complex problems we face?

Climate Change? Resource depletion? Other pandemics?

So, I have been panicking.

Pandemics have long been among my favorite topics to teach sociology with, not because the subject is cheery, but because they contain so many of the lessons about our modern world.

But this year, it feels like a lesson in despair, about everything that’s broken.

There are dozens of textbooks for introduction to sociology, but they all have a similar chapter order. Somehow, globalization always ends up around chapter seven, the middle of the semester, when the novelty of sociology as a topic has worn off, and the class starts to drag.

But chapter seven would always be a turning point in my class: that’s when many students would sit up and realize that this, more than anything, was their generation’s core problem.

We always started with pandemics: Ebola or the Flu.

Why should you care about the state of health care infrastructure, I’d ask, in Laos or in Gabon, besides the obvious: shared humanity?

Many would offer altruistic reasons: because we care. Of course, I’d say. Of course we should care. Of course. But, imagine you are trying to convince an uncaring organization, a bureaucracy, a self-interested power, people with money who do not want to part with their money, or people who simply don’t care?

Can you convince them they should care?

First, do you know what has killed more people than all of World War I at the end of World War I? Not the war itself. The Spanish Flu, the pandemic that swept the world thanks to increasing transportation technologies, the close quarters of barracks, and discharged soldiers who took it back to their communities.

I’d start with network theory, and our small world. In our increasingly connected world, every virus is but a hop or two away: almost all humans are close enough to someone who flies — maybe except the isolated tribes in the Amazon.

If some people fly, any virus can get to any country. In a historical experiment, social psychologist Stanley Milgram challenged people to send packages around the world only through personal contacts — it took about six hops for most packages to find their way home. (This inspired the famous play and movie “Six Degrees of Separation”, which later inspired the “Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon” game.) Today, this would likely be a smaller number because of “hubs” and bridges, people who connect otherwise disconnected clusters, have proliferated.

So, lesson number one: many divides separate us in the world, but we are all connected, very closely. It is truly a global village, of sorts. We are divided, but also united.

Viruses — which we can only vaccinate against and cannot cure like we can with bacterial infections and antibiotics — also thrive when they come across bridges: between the human and the animal host. Historically, the most dangerous viruses are ones that jump between animals, domesticated or not, and humans. The flu that jumps between poultry or swine, and humans; the filovirus that can survive in the fruit bat, but also jump to a person. Many such viruses thrive at poorer places, especially those where the original, rich ecoystem is intact. And it is poor people who will be the ones who bring their chickens into the hut in the winter, the only place with enough warmth to survive, or hunt in the bush for meat, because they can’t buy it in a supermarket.

Jumping hosts sharpens the skills of a virus to spread and kill more effectively— and few of us have immunity to such new viruses, especially those with heightened abilities.

Lesson number two: there are certainly hotspots for natural emergence of deadly pandemics, and many of them reside in the world’s poorest regions.

The final piece of the puzzle is how epidemics work. Epidemiologists talk of “r nought”, R0, the most basic epidemiological number. It is, simply put, the number of new infections each ill person generates. If it is less than 1, R0 < 1, the infection will tend to die out. Each ill person is not replaced by another ill person. Bigger than 1, every ill person infects multiple people, it will grow exponentially.

It’s like that game: put a single grain of rice into the first chess block. Double it in the next one: two grains of rice. Double it again: four grains. There are 64 blocks in a chess board. Once you go through all 64, you will have 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 grains of rice or about 636,094,623,231,363 pounds. As in trillions.

That’s how exponential math works. It gets big, very quickly.

The only way to stop this is to stop it very early. Otherwise, the avalanche becomes uncontainable.

Lesson three: exponential growth is powerful, and best countered very, very early.

By now, we are in the middle of the class of the middle of the lesson in the middle of the semester, the most dangerous time in terms of losing a student.

But I’d already see some of them start putting all this together, and sitting up.

There is no “r nought” independent of connectivity. The more connections, the more possibilities, the bigger this number.

Globalization, in essence, means we really are one big family, in sickness and in health.

The more connected we are, the easier it is for a virus to spread wide and deep, before we get a chance to contain it.

And that is partially why Ebola is now ravaging through three countries in West Africa: it broke through in cities and large-enough settlements, and due to an accumulation of reasons, including recent civil wars, at a time when they were least equipped to handle it.

Containing an outbreak requires circumscribing the outbreak (isolating and treating the ill, tracing their contacts, isolating and treating them as well) so that it can no longer find new hosts, and healing those who are ill, or mourning those who die. Circumscribing an outbreak is easier when the cases are a few, or a few dozen, or a few hundred.

In fact, we know from previous Ebola outbreaks which parameters brings down the dreaded transmission rate: “the rapid institution of control measures.” It’s that simple.

After thousands of cases, this gets harder and harder.

After millions, it is practically impossible.

That’s what is happening now, in Sierra Leone, and in Guinea, and Liberia. There are almost 10,000 cases in those three countries, and half of those people are already dead. In some places, the fatality rate is up to 70%.

On the other hand, Paul Farmer of Partners in Health, one of my favorite organizations in the world, who just returned from Monrovia, Liberia, estimates that 90% of those who receive proper hydration care should survive. The numbers could well work: of the seven people who were treated in the US, only one has died, and his treatment was delayed. Four are already out of the hospital, and two are reportedly doing well.

And crucially, as with all viruses, survivors of Ebola gain immunity, at least to this strain.

In fact, countries with even slightly better health-care, not at the US level, can control this epidemic by circumscribing it: On October 17th, WHO declared Senegal free of Ebola. Later, Nigeria, too, was declared free. Ebola, because of the speed with which it kills, and the short incubation period, is not that hard to contain if contained early — Ebola has a weakness as a virus: it doesn’t have too long to reproduce before it kills or is beaten by its victim, hence its “r nought” is not that high, compared with other viruses which take a longer time lying stealthily in the body. Ebola’s speed and deadliness, paradoxically, gives us an advantage for containing it—if we act early.

On the other hand, at the current level of meager, vastly under-resourced effort in the core countries, the WHO estimates 10,000 cases per week in just a few months. Cases in Liberia are still doubling every two weeks.

There could be a million cases, CDC estimates, by the end of 2014.

Let that sink in. A million Ebola victims in just a few months.

At that point, we end up with another endemic virus, similar to other ones that still survive like polio (so close to being wiped out but wars keep interfering), measles for which we have vaccines, and HIV and malaria (a parasite) for which we don’t have vaccines and which kill millions every year.

What I just summarized in fewer than 2,000 words or so isn’t even basic epidemiology. It is the basics of basics of basics of epidemiology, and this is something every policy maker on the planet should understand after talking for 10 minutes to an expert of their choice in their own country.

A few weeks ago, the United Nations Secretary general Ban Ki Moon asked for about $1 billion to contain this epidemic, in 2014, before it settled for good. (Travel restrictions work if the affected are small numbers, and will not work when we have millions of cases — a few will get out within the incubation period and remember — this disease does not just travel on dark-skinned people.)

Further, the longer we allow Ebola to experiment on us, the more dangerous it may get. A version with a slightly lower fatality rate along with a longer incubation period may be very, very hard to contain.

One billion dollars. About 1/16th of a WhatsApp. One blockbuster movie.

This is but a rounding error for the global economy. It is a meager amount needed, to forestall having to lose much, much, much more later.

And the United Nations reported that it had received about $100K deposited (you read that right) and only about $250 million were made in commitments, that may or may not arrive in time. (There are other sources of funds but the response is clearly, unequivocally inadequate. Liberia is lacking gloves and plastic buckets. The basics.).

Every day we let this pass as is, the harder it will be to eventually exterminate it — not to mention the unacceptable human misery. And cruelly, the disease is ravaging caregivers most, because as people become more sick, they shed more and more of the virus through their bodily fluids.

Ebola kills the most human of us, first, those who are unwilling to abandon the ill, the dying.

And there is so much to do, so so within our reach.

We can send massive amounts of protective equipment. Liberia doesn’t even have enough plastic gloves — they reportedly asked for 110,000 because they just have 2,100. When Centers for Disease Control first went to Liberia in August, when there were only a handful of cases, it found that the hospitals had no gloves. This situation should be unthinkable. Unfortunately, it’s not.

Survivors of the disease acquire immunity, at least to this strain, and there are thousands of them now in the most affected countries — poised to be hired and trained, with proper equipment, so that the newly infected can also be cared for properly, and hence also survive in much larger numbers. Many organizations, from Doctors Without Borders to Partners in Health, are very good at providing community based care, by hiring and training locals, so that epidemics can be contained and treated.

Letting Ebola take root would not just cause more deaths we can prevent, but also would require taking away resources in regions already stretched thin. The spikes in hunger and infant mortality are almost inevitable.

By the end of that sociology class, my first-year college students would all get this basic math, and the basic humanity. The course we must take is a no-brainer, from every point of view: a sense of humanity, and if you cannot be moved by that, by a sense of self-interest and rationality.

It’s 2014.

We have one chance to stop this awful disease in its tracks, this year.

In 2015, that option will be gone.

Mass media is too busy generating the wrong panic — the infinitesimal chances of Ebola in the US now, rather than how to roll it back it in West Africa.

The UN is reduced to begging and being ignored.

There is heroic NGO work. Partners in Health — which specializes in hiring and training locals — and Doctors Without Borders — experienced at moving resources quickly and operating at challenging environments — are both phenomenal organizations — and I’m donating to both what I can this year. I don’t really believe in framing “charity” as a solution at this scale, but I believe in solidarity. However, this should not come down to whether or not a few people donate — our collective institutions should collect and organize these resources, and direct this effort. While PIH and MSF can and will do a lot, this cannot be on their shoulders alone.

So I panic and despair, about what this lack of response says about us, our institutions, our humanity.

How can we make our institutions work, for us, at a global scale? That remains the core challenge of 21st century, without which we will fail at many more tests, at great suffering.

https://medium.com/message/ebola-the-real-reason-everyone-should-panic-889f32740e3e

KarlRove

KarlRove

Monitor your own health? Who will be looking out for who? We already see the whining from the nurse being quarantined. These people aren't selfless, they are selfish if they think that they can just roll in from the UN noted Ebola zone and continue on with life. That's how epidemics start. Since Ebola kills mofos, it would behoove us to MONITOR everyone. Spock said it best, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Use some logic for once Salmonella.

Sal

Sal

KarlRove wrote:Monitor your own health? Who will be looking out for who?

This isn't rocket science.

All they have to do is take their own temperatures twice a day for 21 days.

If they get an elevated reading, they can go into isolation immediately.


We already see the whining from the nurse being quarantined.

She's a fucking hero, nimrod.

You're the whiner with the full diaper.


These people aren't selfless, they are selfish if they think that they can just roll in from the UN noted Ebola zone and continue on with life.

They can and do every day.


That's how epidemics start.

The epidemic is well underway, dimwit.

When there's a wildfire raging around your home, you can't save your property just by watering down your house.

Some embers will get through.

You gotta get the fire contained.


Since Ebola kills mofos, it would behoove us to MONITOR everyone.

lol

Spock said it best, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Use some logic for once Salmonella.

Logic??

I'm the sole voice of logic in this thread, Gomer.

The rest of y'all are in a blind panic and suggesting measures that would do grave harm.

KarlRove

KarlRove

No, people are not in a panic, but they are being overprotective and do not trust their government to tell them the truth.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Sal wrote:Nothing should be done to discourage these courageous men and women from going there to fight the scourge where it must be fought.


Why should health and safety discourage these people?

Sal

Sal

Joanimaroni wrote:
Sal wrote:Nothing should be done to discourage these courageous men and women from going there to fight the scourge where it must be fought.


Why should health and safety discourage these people?

Because the experts say these draconian measures are not necessary.

But, Kaci Hickox is more than capable of speaking for herself ....


http://www.dallasnews.com/ebola/headlines/20141025-uta-grad-isolated-at-new-jersey-hospital-as-part-of-ebola-quarantine.ece

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/index.html

I think she's an amazing person and a hero, and she deserves to be treated with the utmost respect, appreciation, and dignity.

PeeDawg derides her as a whiner.

Guest


Guest

Sorry Sal,
These same scientists are the ones paid by the government. Of course they are going to say it is ok. It will be ok until an epidemic breaks out. Until then , better safe than sorry.

Guest


Guest

And if she was so brave why wasnt she toting an m-4
In Iraq and Astan?

Guest


Guest

There's nothing wrong with the quarantine as long as there is no cure. When there is a cure we can take your lackadaisical attitude.

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