Ryans budget proposal was a “serious, legitimate proposal"

nochain wrote:

salinsky wrote:Budgets are political documents which set forth priorities, nothing more. Government is funded through appropriations bills.

Then why are the Dems so hot and heavy to discredit Ryans "political document"? There is no road map right now for appropriating money and there has not been for over 3 years. That is an unacceptable state of affairs. But according to the infamous Harry Reid everything is A OK in lala land.

Because the Ryan plan has no factual basis.

Floridatexan wrote:

nochain wrote:

salinsky wrote:Budgets are political documents which set forth priorities, nothing more. Government is funded through appropriations bills.

Then why are the Dems so hot and heavy to discredit Ryans "political document"? There is no road map right now for appropriating money and there has not been for over 3 years. That is an unacceptable state of affairs. But according to the infamous Harry Reid everything is A OK in lala land.

Because the Ryan plan has no factual basis.

OK, that explains why Obama liked most of it

Floridatexan wrote:

nochain wrote:

salinsky wrote:Budgets are political documents which set forth priorities, nothing more. Government is funded through appropriations bills.

Then why are the Dems so hot and heavy to discredit Ryans "political document"? There is no road map right now for appropriating money and there has not been for over 3 years. That is an unacceptable state of affairs. But according to the infamous Harry Reid everything is A OK in lala land.

Because the Ryan plan has no factual basis.

"This is an entirely legitimate proposal.", said Obama about Ryan's budget proposal. I know it's hard to believe anything Obama says, but, he did say that. Do you believe he is lying? Again?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/before-it-was-radical-president-obama-hailed-rep-ryan%E2%80%99s-roadmap-as-an-entirely-legitimate-proposal/

VectorMan wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

nochain wrote:

salinsky wrote:Budgets are political documents which set forth priorities, nothing more. Government is funded through appropriations bills.

Then why are the Dems so hot and heavy to discredit Ryans "political document"? There is no road map right now for appropriating money and there has not been for over 3 years. That is an unacceptable state of affairs. But according to the infamous Harry Reid everything is A OK in lala land.

Because the Ryan plan has no factual basis.

"This is an entirely legitimate proposal.", said Obama about Ryan's budget proposal. I know it's hard to believe anything Obama says,but, he did say that. Do you believe he is lying? Again?

LOL! FT's statement is not valid since, as usual, it has no basis in fact or even fantasy.

nochain wrote:

salinsky wrote:

nochain wrote:
Then why are the Dems so hot and heavy to discredit Ryans "political document"?

Umm, because it sets forth in rather stark terms his priorities. And, his priorities suck.

Everyone has an opinion. What about Obamas proposal? Why did the Dem Senate crush it? Maybe it wasn't so great either. When the two sides won't even bother to talk then how can anything be improved? The result is what is being witnessed, federal government paralysis. If there were a President in place who knew how to lead perhaps things wouldn't look so bleak.

I know you understand that these libs here and obama will not settle for anything less than full blown socialism. thats the goal. Its been the goal all along. obama is finally embracing and letting on to the public what his intentions are and thats socialism. He has just biding his time to ease people into buying it. Now the economy is so bad, many people will jump to get the Gov save them. thats the plan.

The new modo is "gov bless america"

And for those of you who like things in context...

[quote="boards of FL"]And for those of you who like things in context...

I prefer actual documents over just listening to the lies/spin out of his mouth

*Secret_Angel* wrote:

nochain wrote:

salinsky wrote:

nochain wrote:
Then why are the Dems so hot and heavy to discredit Ryans "political document"?

Umm, because it sets forth in rather stark terms his priorities. And, his priorities suck.

Everyone has an opinion. What about Obamas proposal? Why did the Dem Senate crush it? Maybe it wasn't so great either. When the two sides won't even bother to talk then how can anything be improved? The result is what is being witnessed, federal government paralysis. If there were a President in place who knew how to lead perhaps things wouldn't look so bleak.

I know you understand that these libs here and obama will not settle for anything less than full blown socialism. thats the goal. Its been the goal all along. obama is finally embracing and letting on to the public what his intentions are and thats socialism. He has just biding his time to ease people into buying it. Now the economy is so bad, many people will jump to get the Gov save them. thats the plan.

The new modo is "gov bless america"

You must watch FAUX NEWS at work every day. That would explain the brainwashing, but of course, that would first require that...oh, never mind.

Here, it's all laid out for you by David M. Stockman, former Director of the Office of Management and Budget under Reagan:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/14/opinion/paul-ryans-fairy-tale-budget-plan.html?_r=2

PAUL D. RYAN is the most articulate and intellectually imposing Republican of the moment, but that doesn’t alter the fact that this earnest congressman from Wisconsin is preaching the same empty conservative sermon.

Thirty years of Republican apostasy — a once grand party’s embrace of the welfare state, the warfare state and the Wall Street-coddling bailout state — have crippled the engines of capitalism and buried us in debt. Mr. Ryan’s sonorous campaign rhetoric about shrinking Big Government and giving tax cuts to “job creators” (read: the top 2 percent) will do nothing to reverse the nation’s economic decline and arrest its fiscal collapse.

Mr. Ryan professes to be a defense hawk, though the true conservatives of modern times — Calvin Coolidge, Herbert C. Hoover, Robert A. Taft, Dwight D. Eisenhower, even Gerald R. Ford — would have had no use for the neoconconservative imperialism that the G.O.P. cobbled from policy salons run by Irving Kristol’s ex-Trotskyites three decades ago. These doctrines now saddle our bankrupt nation with a roughly $775 billion “defense” budget in a world where we have no advanced industrial state enemies and have been fired (appropriately) as the global policeman.

Indeed, adjusted for inflation, today’s national security budget is nearly double Eisenhower’s when he left office in 1961 (about $400 billion in today’s dollars) — a level Ike deemed sufficient to contain the very real Soviet nuclear threat in the era just after Sputnik. By contrast, the Romney-Ryan version of shrinking Big Government is to increase our already outlandish warfare-state budget and risk even more spending by saber-rattling at a benighted but irrelevant Iran.

Similarly, there can be no hope of a return to vibrant capitalism unless there is a sweeping housecleaning at the Federal Reserve and a thorough renunciation of its interest-rate fixing, bond buying and recurring bailouts of Wall Street speculators. The Greenspan-Bernanke campaigns to repress interest rates have crushed savers, mocked thrift and fueled enormous overconsumption and trade deficits.

The greatest regulatory problem — far more urgent that the environmental marginalia Mitt Romney has fumed about — is that the giant Wall Street banks remain dangerous quasi-wards of the state and are inexorably prone to speculative abuse of taxpayer-insured deposits and the Fed’s cheap money. Forget about “too big to fail.” These banks are too big to exist — too big to manage internally and to regulate externally. They need to be broken up by regulatory decree. Instead, the Romney-Ryan ticket attacks the pointless Dodd-Frank regulatory overhaul, when what’s needed is a restoration of Glass-Steagall, the Depression-era legislation that separated commercial and investment banking.

Mr. Ryan showed his conservative mettle in 2008 when he folded like a lawn chair on the auto bailout and the Wall Street bailout. But the greater hypocrisy is his phony “plan” to solve the entitlements mess by deferring changes to social insurance by at least a decade.

A true agenda to reform the welfare state would require a sweeping, income-based eligibility test, which would reduce or eliminate social insurance benefits for millions of affluent retirees. Without it, there is no math that can avoid giant tax increases or vast new borrowing. Yet the supposedly courageous Ryan plan would not cut one dime over the next decade from the $1.3 trillion-per-year cost of Social Security and Medicare.

Instead, it shreds the measly means-tested safety net for the vulnerable: the roughly $100 billion per year for food stamps and cash assistance for needy families and the $300 billion budget for Medicaid, the health insurance program for the poor and disabled. Shifting more Medicaid costs to the states will be mere make-believe if federal financing is drastically cut.

Likewise, hacking away at the roughly $400 billion domestic discretionary budget (what’s left of the federal budget after defense, Social Security, health and safety-net spending and interest on the national debt) will yield only a rounding error’s worth of savings after popular programs (which Republicans heartily favor) like cancer research, national parks, veterans’ benefits, farm aid, highway subsidies, education grants and small-business loans are accommodated.

Like his new boss, Mr. Ryan has no serious plan to create jobs. America has some of the highest labor costs in the world, and saddles workers and businesses with $1 trillion per year in job-destroying payroll taxes. We need a national sales tax — a consumption tax, like the dreaded but efficient value-added tax — but Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan don’t have the gumption to support it.

The Ryan Plan boils down to a fetish for cutting the top marginal income-tax rate for “job creators” — i.e. the superwealthy — to 25 percent and paying for it with an as-yet-undisclosed plan to broaden the tax base. Of the $1 trillion in so-called tax expenditures that the plan would attack, the vast majority would come from slashing popular tax breaks for employer-provided health insurance, mortgage interest, 401(k) accounts, state and local taxes, charitable giving and the like, not to mention low rates on capital gains and dividends. The crony capitalists of K Street already own more than enough Republican votes to stop that train before it leaves the station.

In short, Mr. Ryan’s plan is devoid of credible math or hard policy choices. And it couldn’t pass even if Republicans were to take the presidency and both houses of Congress. Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan have no plan to take on Wall Street, the Fed, the military-industrial complex, social insurance or the nation’s fiscal calamity and no plan to revive capitalist prosperity — just empty sermons.


David A. Stockman, who was the director of the Office of Management and Budget from 1981 to 1985, is the author of the forthcoming book “The Great Deformation: How Crony Capitalism Corrupts Free Markets and Democracy.”
[b]

boards of FL wrote:

nochain wrote:Of course the radicals on both sides sure don't want someone in office who can work both sides of the aisle, no they would rather keep the most devisive and partisan president in history in office for another failed term. Sounds legitimate.

So let's take the Bush tax cuts. Obama has offered the idea of keeping them for the lower levels of income earners, but letting them expire and revert back to the Clinton era levels for the highest income earners.

Is that not an attempt at compromise? How has this idea been met by house republicans?

FLASHBACK: Obama Says You Don't Raise Taxes In A Recession
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aufAtuTwKlE

Obama says adding $4 trillion to debt is unpatriotic Fargo, ND July 3, 2008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqMbD6MNf5U&feature=related

boards of FL wrote:

newswatcher wrote:where's their compromise?...

Go re-read my post. Obama would like to extend them for the lower tax brackets and let them revert back to what they were during the Clinton administration for the top tax brackets.

Brilliant, further destroying out economy. How is further crushing our economy a good thing?

From the Examiner
Inside the Beltway

Ernst & Young: Obama tax hike will shrink economy, cost 700,000 jobs

July 17, 2012 | 11:55 am

A slew of tax hikes supported by President Obama will shrink the U.S. economy by 1.3 percent and cause 710,000 job losses, according to a new Ernst & Young report prepared on behalf of the Independent Community Bankers of America, the National Federation of Independent Business, the S Corporation Association, and the United States Chamber of Commerce.

Authors Robert Carroll and Gerald Prante write:


The concern over the top individual tax rates has been a focus, in part, because of the prominent role played by flow-through businesses – S corporations, partnerships, limited liability companies, and sole proprietorships – in the US economy and the large fraction of flow-through income that is subject to the top two individual income tax rates. These businesses employ 54% of the private sector work force and pay 44% of federal business income taxes.1 The number of workers employed by large flow-through businesses is also significant: more than 20 million workers are employed by flow-through businesses with more than 100 employees. … This report examines four sets of provisions that will increase the top tax rates:
•The increase in the top two tax rates from 33% to 36% and 35% to 39.6%.
•The reinstatement of the limitation on itemized deductions for high-income taxpayers.
•The taxation of dividends as ordinary income and at a top income tax rate of 39.6% and increase in the top tax rate applied to capital gains to 20%.
•The increase in the 2.9% Medicare tax to 3.8% for high-income taxpayers and the application of the new 3.8 percent tax on investment income including flow-through business income, interest, dividends and capital gains.

With the combination of these tax changes at the beginning of 2013 the top tax rate on ordinary income will rise from 35% in 2012 to 40.9%, the top tax rate on dividends will rise from 15% to 44.7% and the top tax rate on capital gains will rise from 15% to 24.7%.

salinsky wrote:Budgets are political documents which set forth priorities, nothing more. Government is funded through appropriations bills.

You just can't make these thing up!

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESN'T NEED NO STINKIN' BUDGETS!

salinsky wrote:Budgets are political documents which set forth priorities, nothing more. Government is funded through appropriations bills.

So why hasn't Obama had a budget in 3 years?

boards of FL wrote:And for those of you who like things in context...

Why doesn't President Barack Hussein Obama explain his own budget? Oh...right....

Markle wrote:

salinsky wrote:Budgets are political documents which set forth priorities, nothing more. Government is funded through appropriations bills.

You just can't make these thing up!

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESN'T NEED NO STINKIN' BUDGETS!

Markle, things CAN be made up. Faux News does it everyday and the lockstep Republicans believe it all.

Dawgback wrote:

Markle wrote:

salinsky wrote:Budgets are political documents which set forth priorities, nothing more. Government is funded through appropriations bills.

You just can't make these thing up!

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESN'T NEED NO STINKIN' BUDGETS!

Markle, things CAN be made up. Faux News does it everyday and the lockstep Republicans believe it all.

GREAT, then you can show us all the Budget from President Barack Hussein Obama and the Democrats!

Markle wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

newswatcher wrote:where's their compromise?...

Go re-read my post. Obama would like to extend them for the lower tax brackets and let them revert back to what they were during the Clinton administration for the top tax brackets.

Brilliant, further destroying out economy. How is further crushing our economy a good thing?

From the Examiner
Inside the Beltway

Ernst & Young: Obama tax hike will shrink economy, cost 700,000 jobs

July 17, 2012 | 11:55 am

A slew of tax hikes supported by President Obama will shrink the U.S. economy by 1.3 percent and cause 710,000 job losses, according to a new Ernst & Young report prepared on behalf of the Independent Community Bankers of America, the National Federation of Independent Business, the S Corporation Association, and the United States Chamber of Commerce.

Authors Robert Carroll and Gerald Prante write:


The concern over the top individual tax rates has been a focus, in part, because of the prominent role played by flow-through businesses – S corporations, partnerships, limited liability companies, and sole proprietorships – in the US economy and the large fraction of flow-through income that is subject to the top two individual income tax rates. These businesses employ 54% of the private sector work force and pay 44% of federal business income taxes.1 The number of workers employed by large flow-through businesses is also significant: more than 20 million workers are employed by flow-through businesses with more than 100 employees. … This report examines four sets of provisions that will increase the top tax rates:
•The increase in the top two tax rates from 33% to 36% and 35% to 39.6%.
•The reinstatement of the limitation on itemized deductions for high-income taxpayers.
•The taxation of dividends as ordinary income and at a top income tax rate of 39.6% and increase in the top tax rate applied to capital gains to 20%.
•The increase in the 2.9% Medicare tax to 3.8% for high-income taxpayers and the application of the new 3.8 percent tax on investment income including flow-through business income, interest, dividends and capital gains.

With the combination of these tax changes at the beginning of 2013 the top tax rate on ordinary income will rise from 35% in 2012 to 40.9%, the top tax rate on dividends will rise from 15% to 44.7% and the top tax rate on capital gains will rise from 15% to 24.7%.

All right-wing sources. Ernst & Young was accused and paid a hefty fine because they covered up the real financial state of Lehman Brothers.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704259704576033540546160536.html

"In the most sweeping allegations against an accounting firm in nearly a decade, New York's attorney general is accusing accounting giant Ernst & Young of helping Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. disguise its financial condition for more than seven years, while collecting more than $150 million in fees from the firm.

New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo filed a suit against Ernst & Young.
.
The two New York companies worked together from 2001 until Lehman's 2008 collapse. The lawsuit, led by New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, alleges that the firms engaged in practices to temporarily erase as much as $50 billion in Lehman assets. This often occurred near the end of a quarter, allegedly making the company look much healthier than it was.

The accounting maneuver, called Repo 105, was used to shift the assets off Lehman's books in return for a promise to buy back the securities at a premium days later. Cash received by Lehman immediately was used to pay down other debts.

Ernst "directly facilitated" an accounting sleight of hand that burnished the securities firm's balance sheet, Mr. Cuomo claimed in the lawsuit..."

Look it's as simple as this. One political party and all it's politicians will destroy America, destroy the economy, destroy health care and destroy everything else. And the other side will save everything about America, save the economy, save health care and save everything else.
You need to pick one side or the other and then believe everything that side says and disbelieve everything the other side says. If you do that then you'll be doing the smartest thing you could do. The worst thing you could do is be wishy-washy and sit on the fence and be a flip-flopper and a "moderate" and an undecided. You need to make up your mind which side you're on and stick to that. Only take in the information that agrees with that side. Don't listen to anything coming from the other side because that's just a true sign of weak-mindedness.
Pick either fox news or MSNBC and get all your information from one of those.
All the rest is just fence-sitting and should be ignored.

If you can follow these simple guidelines then you'll be among the smartest Americans who have the right idea and you will be helping to save our country. You will be part of the solution and not part of the problem.