Cheap, White and Empty

In other words, if the wording of the U.S. Constitution was "one nation under god" with nothing else to clarify that, I would not want to have anything to do with it.
For me it would be no different than "one nation under allah".

Dang I hesitate to post afraid I might break the trance. I skim read this thread and just plain love it. 3 posters have had an exchange on a piece of writing that is both stimulating and respectful. Thank you. I will read this in depth later and thank you for the wisdom you all have a bounty of. I liked your comment also Pkr but it was more on Bob than the story being examined.

Bob wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote: you didn't address the last question about a government that persecutes people like you but has a religious group providing protection.

Would you feel the same way about religious groups if the role played by government and religion is reversed?

I'm not sure I really understand the question the way it's stated there.
So I'll just repeat.

1.  I believe generally speaking that government is an evil but a necessary evil for the reasons I stated.

2.  If government was ruled by the koran (or bible) then I would have a different perspective.  If I had to live under that for a government then,  not only would I find none of it necessary any longer,  but I would either try to escape from it or overthrow it.

Let me put it another way... If the government persecuted not only you but had outlawed religion altogether and a underground religious group made it a point of protecting people such as yourself then I think your perspective of religion would be different.

Not all government is good and not all religion is bad.

Therefore I question your objectivity in the matter.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvLwMrGZiH0

  

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Dang I hesitate to post afraid I might break the trance. I  skim read this thread and just plain love it. 3 posters have had an exchange on a piece of writing that is both stimulating and respectful. Thank you. I will read this in depth later and thank you for the wisdom you all have a bounty of. I liked your comment also Pkr but it was more on Bob than the story being examined.

It can't last.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1mX8ptsmBM

  

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Let me put it another way... If the government persecuted not only you but had outlawed religion altogether and a underground religious group made it a point of protecting people such as yourself then I think your perspective of religion would be different.

Not all government is good and not all religion is bad.

Therefore I question your objectivity in the matter.

 

Well I guess that's an interesting twist on it but it's all just hypothetical.
As I'm aware, nobody has ever invented a religion that protects bisexuals from a government which is persecuting them.
But if that ever happens I would concede that that government is bad and that religion is good if it makes you happy. lol

Damaged Eagle wrote:
Then you're not making enough to be considered worth their time.

 

Of course not. No sole proprietor is. But I'm still very capitalist.

Having enough money to influence the "deciders" is the forte of corporate capitalists.

Back to your hypothetical situation about religion protecting a minority from a government.

What makes that so hypothetical is that you'll never see that with either an Islamic or a Christian based government.
Because the ultimate goal of both is to have everyone belong to one majority (not unlike with communism).

Bob wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Let me put it another way... If the government persecuted not only you but had outlawed religion altogether and a underground religious group made it a point of protecting people such as yourself then I think your perspective of religion would be different.

Not all government is good and not all religion is bad.

Therefore I question your objectivity in the matter.

 

Well I guess that's an interesting twist on it but it's all just hypothetical.
As I'm aware, nobody has ever invented a religion that protects bisexuals from a government which is persecuting them.
But if that ever happens I would concede that that government is bad and that religion is good if it makes you happy.  lol

I think you paint with to broad of a brush...

Hasn't the Roman Catholic Church attempted to protect certain members of their priesthood over the years?

Isn't there certain branches of Christianity that has accepted people of your persuasion over the years?

I'll concede that some religions if the crime wasn't heinous (murder) they didn't want to know the offense certain people gave their government and that religious organization protected them.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kmq9uM4Mq0

  

Bob wrote:Back to your hypothetical situation about religion protecting a minority from a government.

What makes that so hypothetical is that you'll never see that with either an Islamic or a Christian based government.
Because the ultimate goal of both is to have everyone belong to one majority (not unlike with communism).

Isn't that what governmental social engineering is attempting to do?

Again I question your objectivity in this matter.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr6maEQvi5Q

  

damaged eagle,

A sincere muslim or a sincere christian would need to believe that there should be no other laws than laws which their god would approve of (as spelled out in each respective religious book which each believe is the "word of god").

A self-proclaimed muslim or christian who would say "well god got this one wrong and homosexuality is actually okay" is only that, a self-proclaimed muslim or christian who really isn't one because by saying that he just rebuked god. And you can't be one if you rebuke god.

I have to leave for a poker game now. If I get a chance I'll try to use my smartphone to post during intermissions.

Bob wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:
Then you're not making enough to be considered worth their time.

 

Of course not.  No sole proprietor is.  But I'm still very capitalist.

Having enough money to influence the "deciders" is the forte of corporate capitalists.

I'm sure the Walton's and Levi's owners would disagree with you.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v43LNBDNBIk

 

Bob wrote:damaged eagle,

A sincere muslim or a sincere christian would need to believe that there should be no other laws than laws which their god would approve of (as spelled out in each respective religious book which each believe is the "word of god").

A self-proclaimed muslim or christian who would say "well god got this one wrong and homosexuality is actually okay" is only that,  a self-proclaimed muslim or christian who really isn't one because by saying that he just rebuked god.  And you can't be one if you rebuke god.

I have to leave for a poker game now.  If I get a chance I'll try to use my smartphone to post during intermissions.

The obverse side is that there are those who want government to do the same thing.

Progressives outlawing or attempting to change the cultural beliefs of a religious group is exactly the same. They're just using their religion of social justice and having government thugs enforce it... What makes government or you any better than the religions you despise?

I tend to agree with Pkrbum. Government should only be an arbitrator in disputes.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZup5YLOWLE

 

and bob too plays poker, splains a bunch.

think I will have to change my mind on poker players.

although really inside me... I just have this HUGE feeling I am surrounded by so many liars and fakes.

My intuition is usually right on.

I've been watching the JUSTIFIED series lately and really enjoying it...as I enjoy Elmore Leonard's books. I don't think you have to go far to find poverty in this country, whatever color the residents of a particular location. People are hurting while corporations are bringing home the payola. I don't think that's what our forefathers envisioned, although they were rich, white and landed. The first slaves in this country were serfs from Europe, not Africans. Many of them were considered property in their own countries...I'm thinking specifically of the agrarians and coal miners in old England...a large number were indentured to their "noble" masters. But there weren't enough of them, and many ran away, hence the import of Africans to work the tobacco plantations in VA and the cotton fields in the Deep South. Our history is really pretty sad, but that doesn't mean we should give up trying to achieve a certain kind of equality...not that people don't have different talents and abilities, but that each person deserves be treated with respect and to reap the rewards of his/her labor. Our dear leaders need to be reminded who they work for.

Floridatexan wrote:
I've been watching the JUSTIFIED series lately and really enjoying it...as I enjoy Elmore Leonard's books.  I don't think you have to go far to find poverty in this country, whatever color the residents of a particular location.  People are hurting while corporations are bringing home the payola.  I don't think that's what our forefathers envisioned, although they were rich, white and landed.  The first slaves in this country were serfs from Europe, not Africans.  Many of them were considered property in their own countries...I'm thinking specifically of the agrarians and coal miners in old England...a large number were indentured to their "noble" masters.  But there weren't enough of them, and many ran away, hence the import of Africans to work the tobacco plantations in VA and the cotton fields in the Deep South.  Our history is really pretty sad, but that doesn't mean we should give up trying to achieve a certain kind of equality...not that people don't have different talents and abilities, but that each person deserves be treated with respect and to reap the rewards of his/her labor.  Our dear leaders need to be reminded who they work for.

oh goodness, whatever you do do not mention that it wasn't only blacks who have been slaves FT. this is a biblical blunder of sorts. you must leave that part out.

and really FT, our history is shining when you consider us ona world level.

but some need to stop taking advantage of our generosity or we wont have any.

our leaders are on high because those who want stuff for themselves instead of for country out number us. think about that and how easy it is to sell

I can actually remember living in mining towns as a child. I remember mud and lots of it. Poverty was a relative thing. We were poor but being surrounded by folks just as poor I never knew it. They told me about how the owners of the mines created company stores where company script was used to buy necessities. Of course you could run a tab where it locked you forever into indebtedness to the mine. Everyday I remember my grandpa coming in black from head to foot washing up before dinner. He died of black lung. My dad was killed in a blasting accident cave in. I used to play with my Grandpas carbide lantern and other tools. I would have been a miner if my Dad had not gotten killed. Mom remarried and man that worked for GM in Ohio. Moved to Ohio and learned what discrimination was. Folks in Northern Ohio hate Hill Billies. I am proud of my Grandpa and Dad. They did a dangerous job to care for their families.

Chrissy wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:
I've been watching the JUSTIFIED series lately and really enjoying it...as I enjoy Elmore Leonard's books.  I don't think you have to go far to find poverty in this country, whatever color the residents of a particular location.  People are hurting while corporations are bringing home the payola.  I don't think that's what our forefathers envisioned, although they were rich, white and landed.  The first slaves in this country were serfs from Europe, not Africans.  Many of them were considered property in their own countries...I'm thinking specifically of the agrarians and coal miners in old England...a large number were indentured to their "noble" masters.  But there weren't enough of them, and many ran away, hence the import of Africans to work the tobacco plantations in VA and the cotton fields in the Deep South.  Our history is really pretty sad, but that doesn't mean we should give up trying to achieve a certain kind of equality...not that people don't have different talents and abilities, but that each person deserves be treated with respect and to reap the rewards of his/her labor.  Our dear leaders need to be reminded who they work for.

oh goodness, whatever you do do not mention that it wasn't only blacks who have been slaves FT. this is a biblical blunder of sorts. you must leave that part out.

and really FT, our history is shining when you consider us ona world level.

but some need to stop taking advantage of our generosity or we wont have any.

our leaders are on high because those who want stuff for themselves instead of for country out number us. think about that and how easy it is to sell

No...they don't outnumber us. They out-finance us. In truth, if people truly mobilize against the big money corporations, such as putting their money in local banks or credit unions, saving instead of spending, and demanding a living wage, among other things, the people who are hoarding money and making money off their money while doing nothing else wouldn't have a chance. The economic conditions in this country are appalling.

Floridatexan wrote:

Chrissy wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:
I've been watching the JUSTIFIED series lately and really enjoying it...as I enjoy Elmore Leonard's books.  I don't think you have to go far to find poverty in this country, whatever color the residents of a particular location.  People are hurting while corporations are bringing home the payola.  I don't think that's what our forefathers envisioned, although they were rich, white and landed.  The first slaves in this country were serfs from Europe, not Africans.  Many of them were considered property in their own countries...I'm thinking specifically of the agrarians and coal miners in old England...a large number were indentured to their "noble" masters.  But there weren't enough of them, and many ran away, hence the import of Africans to work the tobacco plantations in VA and the cotton fields in the Deep South.  Our history is really pretty sad, but that doesn't mean we should give up trying to achieve a certain kind of equality...not that people don't have different talents and abilities, but that each person deserves be treated with respect and to reap the rewards of his/her labor.  Our dear leaders need to be reminded who they work for.

oh goodness, whatever you do do not mention that it wasn't only blacks who have been slaves FT. this is a biblical blunder of sorts. you must leave that part out.

and really FT, our history is shining when you consider us ona world level.

but some need to stop taking advantage of our generosity or we wont have any.

our leaders are on high because those who want stuff for themselves instead of for country out number us. think about that and how easy it is to sell

No...they don't outnumber us.  They out-finance us.  In truth, if people truly mobilize against the big money corporations, such as putting their money in local banks or credit unions, saving instead of spending, and demanding a living wage, among other things, the people who are hoarding money and making money off their money while doing nothing else wouldn't have a chance.  The economic conditions in this country are appalling.  

gracious, im no only out financed, im also out cleveredness in reaping the peasants dues.

I wonder what the world will look like without people like me... im sure it will be a better more productive nice place.   

No...they don't outnumber us.  They out-finance us.  In truth, if people truly mobilize against the big money corporations, such as putting their money in local banks or credit unions, saving instead of spending, and demanding a living wage, among other things, the people who are hoarding money and making money off their money while doing nothing else wouldn't have a chance.  The economic conditions in this country are appalling.  


I am always happy when we agree on something.

Chrissy wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

Chrissy wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:
I've been watching the JUSTIFIED series lately and really enjoying it...as I enjoy Elmore Leonard's books.  I don't think you have to go far to find poverty in this country, whatever color the residents of a particular location.  People are hurting while corporations are bringing home the payola.  I don't think that's what our forefathers envisioned, although they were rich, white and landed.  The first slaves in this country were serfs from Europe, not Africans.  Many of them were considered property in their own countries...I'm thinking specifically of the agrarians and coal miners in old England...a large number were indentured to their "noble" masters.  But there weren't enough of them, and many ran away, hence the import of Africans to work the tobacco plantations in VA and the cotton fields in the Deep South.  Our history is really pretty sad, but that doesn't mean we should give up trying to achieve a certain kind of equality...not that people don't have different talents and abilities, but that each person deserves be treated with respect and to reap the rewards of his/her labor.  Our dear leaders need to be reminded who they work for.

oh goodness, whatever you do do not mention that it wasn't only blacks who have been slaves FT. this is a biblical blunder of sorts. you must leave that part out.

and really FT, our history is shining when you consider us ona world level.

but some need to stop taking advantage of our generosity or we wont have any.

our leaders are on high because those who want stuff for themselves instead of for country out number us. think about that and how easy it is to sell

No...they don't outnumber us.  They out-finance us.  In truth, if people truly mobilize against the big money corporations, such as putting their money in local banks or credit unions, saving instead of spending, and demanding a living wage, among other things, the people who are hoarding money and making money off their money while doing nothing else wouldn't have a chance.  The economic conditions in this country are appalling.  

gracious, im no only out financed, im also out cleveredness in reaping the peasants dues.

I wonder what the world will look like without people like me... im sure it will be a better more productive nice place.   

At 0.05% interest on your savings account at the local bank or credit union you'll be owning them in no time Chrissy... Oh wait! I'm thinkin' it might be the other way around...

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz61YQWZuYU

 

That's what it's all about, Ichisan.

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Bob wrote:damaged eagle,

A sincere muslim or a sincere christian would need to believe that there should be no other laws than laws which their god would approve of (as spelled out in each respective religious book which each believe is the "word of god").

A self-proclaimed muslim or christian who would say "well god got this one wrong and homosexuality is actually okay" is only that,  a self-proclaimed muslim or christian who really isn't one because by saying that he just rebuked god.  And you can't be one if you rebuke god.

The obverse side is that there are those who want government to do the same thing.

Progressives outlawing or attempting to change the cultural beliefs of a religious group is exactly the same. They're just using their religion of social justice and having government thugs enforce it... What makes government or you any better than the religions you despise?

1.  I'm not a "progressive"

2.  Even if I was a progressive I couldn't "outlaw a religious group" because the ultimate law of the land in our country (the Constitution) prevents any of us,  progressives,  conservatives,  teabaggers,  duck dynasties, libertarians,  communists,  socialists,  or anyone else from "outlawing" any religion and I am fully in support of that law.  That important rule of law was established because the British government outlawed every religion except for the Church of England.  Without that law,  Pace and Milton would make the Southern Baptist Church the only legal church and would outlaw all the rest.
Not me.  I'm not into "outlawing" religions.  

3.  I don't "despise religion".  As I've already said,  I think religion is a necessary part of human life for most humans.
I just don't want any religion (Christian,  Muslim,  Southern Baptist or Duck Dynasty) to become the basis for all law.

But you didn't even comment on what's in my post and neither did anyone else.
So let me try this again...

A sincere muslim or a sincere christian would need to believe that there should be no other laws than laws which their god would approve of (as spelled out in each respective religious book which each believe is the "word of god").

A self-proclaimed muslim or christian who would say "well god got this one wrong and homosexuality is actually okay" is only that, a self-proclaimed muslim or christian who really isn't one because by saying that he just rebuked god. And you can't be one if you rebuke god.

Both the Koran and the Bible say homosexuality is a sin.
To be a real muslim or a real christian, a person has to accept what the Bible or Koran says about homosexuality because the Bible and the Koran is the word of god. And to not accept the word of god is to rebuke him.
I repeat, teo and phil robertson HAVE to believe homosexuality is a sin if they are actual bonafide real Christians. They have no choice. If they don't accept god's word, they can't be real Christians.

Why is this important? It's important because it leads to a conflict between the Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin, and those of us who don't believe it's a sin.
As a result of that, Christians will want the law to reflect god's word (if they truly are Christians), and the rest of us will not want the law to derive from the Bible.
So my question to you is, how would you resolve that conflict?

I listened to a program the other day that said that since the 40s the government has been hitting the population with estrogen imitators and that they have altered us before birth with the goal to reduce population and control society. There are even some born now with both sex organs. Many the Doctor said have a female brain and male organs. I think with Frankenstein playing with us little rats in our little cage country I will stop picking on gays and let God sort out the mess. The frogs and other aquatic life is also going gender nuts. In some South American countries it's so bad the women out number the men 7 to 1.