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Cheap, White and Empty

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1Cheap, White and Empty Empty Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 1:24 pm

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Owsley County, Ky. – There are lots of diversions in the Big White Ghetto, the vast moribund matrix of Wonder Bread–hued Appalachian towns and villages stretching from northern Mississippi to southern New York, a slowly dissipating nebula of poverty and misery with its heart in eastern Kentucky, the last redoubt of the Scots-Irish working class that picked up where African slave labor left off, mining and cropping and sawing the raw materials for a modern American economy that would soon run out of profitable uses for the class of people who 500 years ago would have been known, without any derogation, as peasants. Thinking about the future here and its bleak prospects is not much fun at all, so instead of too much black-minded introspection you have the pills and the dope, the morning beers, the endless scratch-off lotto cards, healing meetings up on the hill, the federally funded ritual of trading cases of food-stamp Pepsi for packs of Kentucky’s Best cigarettes and good old hard currency, tall piles of gas-station nachos, the occasional blast of meth, Narcotics Anonymous meetings, petty crime, the draw, the recreational making and surgical unmaking of teenaged mothers, and death: Life expectancies are short — the typical man here dies well over a decade earlier than does a man in Fairfax County, Va. — and they are getting shorter, women’s life expectancy having declined by nearly 1.1 percent from 1987 to 2007.

If the people here weren’t 98.5 percent white, we’d call it a reservation.

Driving through these hills and hollows, you aren’t in the Appalachia of Elmore Leonard’s Justified or squatting with Lyndon Johnson on Tom Fletcher’s front porch in Martin County, a scene famously photographed by Walter Bennett of Time, the image that launched the so-called War on Poverty. The music isn’t “Shady Grove,” it’s Kanye West. There is still coal mining — which, at $25 an hour or more, provides one of the more desirable occupations outside of government work — but the jobs are moving west, and Harlan County, like many coal-country communities, has lost nearly half of its population over the past 30 years.

There is here a strain of fervid and sometimes apocalyptic Christianity, and visions of the Rapture must have a certain appeal for people who already have been left behind. Like its black urban counterparts, the Big White Ghetto suffers from a whole trainload of social problems, but the most significant among them may be adverse selection: Those who have the required work skills, the academic ability, or the simple desperate native enterprising grit to do so get the hell out as fast as they can, and they have been doing that for decades. As they go, businesses disappear, institutions fall into decline, social networks erode, and there is little or nothing left over for those who remain. It’s a classic economic death spiral: The quality of the available jobs is not enough to keep good workers, and the quality of the available workers is not enough to attract good jobs. These little towns located at remote wide spots in helical mountain roads are hard enough to get to if you have a good reason to be here. If you don’t have a good reason, you aren’t going to think of one.

Appalachian places have evocative and unsentimental names denoting deep roots: Little Barren River, Coal Pit Road. The name “Cumberland” blankets Appalachian geography — the Cumberland Mountains, the Cumberland River, several Cumberland counties — in tribute to the Duke of Cumberland, who along with the Ulster Scots ancestors of the Appalachian settlers crushed the Young Pretender at the Battle of Culloden. Even church names suggest ancient grievances: Separate Baptist, with the descriptor in all-capital letters. (“Come out from among them and be ye separate” — 2 Corinthians 6:17.) I pass a church called “Welfare Baptist,” which, unfortunately, describes much of the population for miles and miles around.

* * *

There is not much novelty in Booneville, Ky., the seat of Owsley County, but it does receive a steady trickle of visitors: Its public figures suffer politely through a perverse brand of tourism from journalists and do-gooders every time the U.S. Census data are recalculated and it defends its dubious title as poorest county in these United States. The first person I encounter is Jimmy — I think he’s called Jimmy; there is so much alcohol and Kentucky in his voice that I have a hard time understanding him — who is hanging out by the steps of the local municipal building waiting for something to happen, and what happens today is me. Unprompted, he breaks away from the little knot of men he is standing with and comes at me smiling hard. He appears to be one of those committed dipsomaniacs of the sort David Foster Wallace had in mind when he observed that at a certain point in a drunk’s career it does not matter all that much whether he’s actually been drinking, that’s just the way he is. Jimmy is attached to one of the clusters of unbusy men who lounge in front of the public buildings in Booneville – “old-timers with nothing to do,” one observer calls them, though some of those “old-timers” do not appear to have reached 30 yet, and their Mossy Oak camouflage outfits say “Remington” while their complexions say “Nintendo.” Mossy Oak and Realtree camo are aesthetic touchstones in these parts: I spot a new $50,000 Ram pickup truck with an exterior as shiny as a silver ingot and a camouflage interior, the usefulness of which is non-obvious.

I expect Jimmy to ask for money, but instead he launches into a long disquisition about something called the “Thread the Needle” program, and relates with great animation how he convinced a lady acquaintance of his to go down to the county building and offer to sign up for Thread the Needle, telling her that she would receive $25 or $50 for doing so.

http://nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson

2Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 2:12 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

That's a very thought provoking piece of writing.  Offering a perspective that I've never seen before.


Read this part again...

There is not much novelty in Booneville, Ky., the seat of Owsley County, but it does receive a steady trickle of visitors: Its public figures suffer politely through a perverse brand of tourism from journalists and do-gooders every time the U.S. Census data are recalculated and it defends its dubious title as poorest county in these United States. The first person I encounter is Jimmy — I think he’s called Jimmy; there is so much alcohol and Kentucky in his voice that I have a hard time understanding him — who is hanging out by the steps of the local municipal building waiting for something to happen, and what happens today is me. Unprompted, he breaks away from the little knot of men he is standing with and comes at me smiling hard. He appears to be one of those committed dipsomaniacs of the sort David Foster Wallace had in mind when he observed that at a certain point in a drunk’s career it does not matter all that much whether he’s actually been drinking, that’s just the way he is. Jimmy is attached to one of the clusters of unbusy men who lounge in front of the public buildings in Booneville – “old-timers with nothing to do,” one observer calls them, though some of those “old-timers” do not appear to have reached 30 yet, and their Mossy Oak camouflage outfits say “Remington” while their complexions say “Nintendo.” Mossy Oak and Realtree camo are aesthetic touchstones in these parts: I spot a new $50,000 Ram pickup truck with an exterior as shiny as a silver ingot and a camouflage interior, the usefulness of which is non-obvious.
I expect Jimmy to ask for money, but instead he launches into a long disquisition about something called the “Thread the Needle” program, and relates with great animation how he convinced a lady acquaintance of his to go down to the county building and offer to sign up for Thread the Needle, telling her that she would receive $25 or $50 for doing so.


Except this time,  follow that with this part...

There is here a strain of fervid and sometimes apocalyptic Christianity, and visions of the Rapture must have a certain appeal for people who already have been left behind.


Bogus or not,  religion is the only thing they have to turn to.  Karl Marx would call it "the opiate of the masses".
But I would characterize it differently.  I call it a necessary evil.
Until humans come up with something that can adequately take it's place,  and even though religion causes so much evil,  it still remains that religious faith is necessary for so many of us to be able cope with life.

Actually I call religion human nature.  Because I think it always has and always will be a necessity to keep us in denial of our actual reality.  Because those masses Marx refers to cannot accept what that reality is.
Which is that none of us ever have and none of us ever will have any understanding of the nature of our existence.
Some of us experience happy enough lives that we don't give a shit about not knowing that. But so many others are not that fortunate.

3Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 2:23 pm

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:That's a very thought provoking piece of writing.  Offering a perspective that I've never seen before.


Read this part again...

There is not much novelty in Booneville, Ky., the seat of Owsley County, but it does receive a steady trickle of visitors: Its public figures suffer politely through a perverse brand of tourism from journalists and do-gooders every time the U.S. Census data are recalculated and it defends its dubious title as poorest county in these United States. The first person I encounter is Jimmy — I think he’s called Jimmy; there is so much alcohol and Kentucky in his voice that I have a hard time understanding him — who is hanging out by the steps of the local municipal building waiting for something to happen, and what happens today is me. Unprompted, he breaks away from the little knot of men he is standing with and comes at me smiling hard. He appears to be one of those committed dipsomaniacs of the sort David Foster Wallace had in mind when he observed that at a certain point in a drunk’s career it does not matter all that much whether he’s actually been drinking, that’s just the way he is. Jimmy is attached to one of the clusters of unbusy men who lounge in front of the public buildings in Booneville – “old-timers with nothing to do,” one observer calls them, though some of those “old-timers” do not appear to have reached 30 yet, and their Mossy Oak camouflage outfits say “Remington” while their complexions say “Nintendo.” Mossy Oak and Realtree camo are aesthetic touchstones in these parts: I spot a new $50,000 Ram pickup truck with an exterior as shiny as a silver ingot and a camouflage interior, the usefulness of which is non-obvious.
I expect Jimmy to ask for money, but instead he launches into a long disquisition about something called the “Thread the Needle” program, and relates with great animation how he convinced a lady acquaintance of his to go down to the county building and offer to sign up for Thread the Needle, telling her that she would receive $25 or $50 for doing so.


Except this time,  follow that with this part...

There is here a strain of fervid and sometimes apocalyptic Christianity, and visions of the Rapture must have a certain appeal for people who already have been left behind.


Bogus or not,  religion is the only thing they have to turn to.  Karl Marx would call it "the opiate of the masses".
But I would characterize it differently.  I call it a necessary evil.
Until humans come up with something that can adequately take it's place,  and even though religion causes so much evil,  it still remains that religious faith is necessary for so many of us to be able cope with life.

Actually I call religion human nature.  Because I think it always has and always will be a necessity to keep us in denial of our actual reality.  Because those masses Marx refers to cannot accept what that reality is.
Which is that none of us ever have and none of us ever will have any understanding of the nature of our existence.
Some of us experience happy enough lives that we don't give a shit about not knowing that.  But so many others are not that fortunate.

Did you read the entire piece? I did and it is very thought provoking. I found it tainted with truths with a little dash of deeply rooted racism.

I thought he touched on many good points but felt like he could not help himself to end the piece with what I felt was a very racist analogy. And I said to my gf, after telling her the heart warming story of all these poor people trapped by a system and mentality, I said, how does it make you feel at the end when he says this sums it up, Cheap, white and Empty? she said, not good.

I also thought the responses to this piece were powerful.

4Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 2:29 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

If it's anti-white racism that would be unexpected.  Because it's published in the National Review which is a conservative organ.

5Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 2:39 pm

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:If it's anti-white racism that would be unexpected.  Because it's published in the National Review which is a conservative organ.

I do not care where it was published.

You put way too much focus on that.

Let me put it this way.

wonder if I wrote about a piece on poor blacks. and then I ended that piece by making a similar comment. perhaps comparing blacks to a box of chocolate cookies being Cheap, black and empty. I would be called a racist all day long.

I take offense that these poor people were called cheap is my problem with this. its one thing to be poor, but cheap is demeaning on another level.

6Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 2:41 pm

Guest


Guest

Cheap, White and Empty Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-u3OMW6vjkrTWIE9y4dy9W5W0d94T9m8kYYRuhZPEyO03IrYYwA

Bob wrote:


There is here a strain of fervid and sometimes apocalyptic Christianity, and visions of the Rapture must have a certain appeal for people who already have been left behind.


Bogus or not,  religion is the only thing they have to turn to.  Karl Marx would call it "the opiate of the masses".

The same can be said about people who believe the government is a cure all with social engineering.

Bob wrote:But I would characterize it differently.  I call it a necessary evil.

That's what I'm promoting in your General Welfare discussion.

Bob wrote:Until humans come up with something that can adequately take it's place,  and even though religion causes so much evil,  it still remains that religious faith is necessary for so many of us to be able cope with life.

You do realize we're talking about humans and human nature... Figure the odds of everyone agreeing on something.

Bob wrote:Actually I call religion human nature.  Because I think it always has and always will be a necessity to keep us in denial of our actual reality.  Because those masses Marx refers to cannot accept what that reality is.

That's one of the most intelligent things I've heard around here in a while.

Bob wrote:Which is that none of us ever have and none of us ever will have any understanding of the nature of our existence.
Some of us experience happy enough lives that we don't give a shit about not knowing that.  But so many others are not that fortunate.

True.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diOuUYcenW0

 Smile

7Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 2:50 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

About the last two items in your post, damaged eagle.
It's not something I've just written for the first time. I've written that in dozens of posts going all the way back to when I first started participating in social media.
It's just that the piece of writing chrissy provided to us gave me an opportunity to express it again in the context of what that person wrote.

8Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 2:54 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

That person is helping us understand why religion would be so important to that poor white society he's writing about.
But it's exactly the same reason so many american blacks of the past,  rural or urban,  adopted a religion that could take them away from a harsh life and get them into a utopia (heaven).

9Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 2:56 pm

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:About the last two items in your post,  damaged eagle.
It's not something I've just written for the first time.  I've written that in dozens of posts going all the way back to when I first started participating in social media.  
It's just that the piece of writing chrissy provided to us gave me an opportunity to express it again in the context of what that person wrote.

confession.... its a very good piece. Thus why I posted it. Ive lost my touch of stirring up the masses I'm afraid.

10Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 3:03 pm

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:About the last two items in your post,  damaged eagle.
It's not something I've just written for the first time.  I've written that in dozens of posts going all the way back to when I first started participating in social media.  
It's just that the piece of writing chrissy provided to us gave me an opportunity to express it again in the context of what that person wrote.

Cheap, White and Empty Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbMAvQsVICqWixt7UtTXwm-GcQHFiuClH41-Sw_mZk9cTO8LohVQ

I know that Bob.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

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11Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 3:07 pm

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:About the last two items in your post,  damaged eagle...

Cheap, White and Empty Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_RXNYqNg-MkKi7y3UVyEYqELFBTrLfhEPiUwAgCxbQTqkU1lG

As for your neglecting to respond to the first three items of my response... You're just letting your latent puritan ways take over.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-e2bptjUOc

 Cool



Last edited by Damaged Eagle on 1/12/2014, 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

12Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 3:14 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Chrissy wrote: Ive lost my touch of stirring up the masses I'm afraid.

Chrissy,

None of us here can "stir up the masses". The only thing any of us can ever hope to do is to try to "stir up" the ones of us here, and we aint masses.
And that piece of writing you provided "stirred me up" in a way. Because I had never read anything with that perspective before.

13Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 3:21 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Damaged Eagle wrote:

The same can be said about people who believe the government is a cure all with social engineering.

I don't disagree.  And the same thing can be said about a number of other things too.
But religious faith is really in a class by itself.  It's the ultimate coping mechanism.  
The people who hate the government and don't think it's a cure for anything,  are also among those who embrace religious faith.  Actually many if not most of those are some of the most religious.


Bob wrote:But I would characterize it differently.  I call it a necessary evil.

That's what I'm promoting in your General Welfare discussion.

Please explain.  What is my "General Welfare" discussion?  Are you talking about me quoting that moronic congresswoman who wants to replace the word "welfare" with some bullshit political correctness?
How does what you said in that thread figure into this?

14Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 3:33 pm

Guest


Guest

Cheap, White and Empty Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0arhg4uxnPNaPGa7smsc2OAAJtLQEfY5vAR4DPYMkMk2w1W7GQw

Bob wrote:I don't disagree.  And the same thing can be said about a number of other things too.[/b]


That's wise.

Bob wrote:But religious faith is really in a class by itself.  It's the ultimate coping mechanism.

I disagree. I think religion or government is the ultimate coping mechanism for people to attempt to push their beliefs on others.
 
Bob wrote:The people who hate the government and don't think it's a cure for anything,  are also among those who embrace religious faith. Actually many if not most of those are some of the most religious.


Do you think I embrace religion in such a way?

Bob wrote:Please explain.  What is my "General Welfare" discussion?  Are you talking about me quoting that moronic congresswoman who wants to replace the word "welfare" with some bullshit political correctness?


Yes.

Bob wrote:How does what you said in that thread figure into this?

How doesn't it? You agreed with me at the beginning of this post. Take it a step further...

Religion and/or government is the opiate of the masses.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFU8fYkqDg

 Smile

15Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 3:54 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

But rather than an opiate of the masses, I see religion and government both as a necessary evil.
I explained why earlier when it comes to religion.
And I believe government, while also an evil in so many ways, is also necessary just like religion.
I wouldn't want to live in a society without government and I shouldn't need to have to explain why.

So for me the bottom line is, while I don't worship Jesus or government either one, I can see how both have their place.

16Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 4:05 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Add corporate capitalism to that list too.

Another necessary evil that we shouldn't worship or turn our backs on either.
But it does have it's place.
I couldn't be riding around in a Prius getting 50 mpg without corporate capitalism.  In fact without corporate capitalism,  I would be riding a horse.
I couldn't go in the living room and listen to that jukebox without corporate capitalism either.   And that just wouldn't do.

17Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 4:11 pm

Guest


Guest

Pretty good run there ole bob.

18Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 4:12 pm

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:But rather than an opiate of the masses,  I see religion and government both as a necessary evil.
I explained why earlier when it comes to religion.
And I believe government,  while also an evil in so many ways,  is also necessary just like religion.
I wouldn't want to live in a society without government and I shouldn't need to have to explain why.

So for me the bottom line is,  while I don't worship Jesus or government either one,  I can see how both have their place.


Cheap, White and Empty Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS56L5rV-rtD-0IkNBhMWM4EgGOAVjXc1WMHQhgZeXbIP_R4tJ_Aw

You have no objectivity about government at this time because this government supports key issues that you want. You're addicted to it.

Would you feel the same way in a Muslim society like Iran where government and religion are combined?

How about a society that has a government that persecutes people like you but has a religious group that assists in hiding and protecting you?

Perspective is everything.

Whether it's you or the people that disagree with you the government will send in it's thugs to support the cause they have on their agenda.

Which side is right is all a matter of perspective.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fNY0JuATpQ

 Smile

19Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 4:27 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Damaged Eagle wrote:

You have no objectivity about government at this time because this government supports key issues that you want. You're addicted to it.

Would you feel the same way in a Muslim society like Iran where government and religion are combined?

How about a society that has a government that persecutes people like you but has a religious group that assists in hiding and protecting you?

 

By the way, the invention of religion and it's role in human civilization began eons before it invented either what we know as government or our invention of corporate capitalism.
That's what puts it in a class by itself.

But to address your reply.  

The reason I believe a national government is necessary,  is not because "it supports key issues that I want".  
It's because without laws and a national government to enforce laws,  I would be living in a chaotic state that would be hard to have to deal with.  
Every majority (of any kind) would walk over every minority (of any kind).  
The strongest individuals would walk over the weak.
The states would be going to war with each other and I would be caught up in that.
Since other societys will also establish national governments,  our society needs a government to be able to compete with that and meet the challenges it presents us.  Without the combined resources of a national government,  the other governments would quickly conquer us.
Which brings me to your other point.  No I don't want to live where there's a government which is ruled by a religious book.  And that goes for a koran or a bible either one.
If either being the foundation of government was my only option,  I might indeed prefer to live without government.

20Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 4:30 pm

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:Add corporate capitalism to that list too.

Another necessary evil that we shouldn't worship or turn our backs on either.
But it does have it's place.
I couldn't be riding around in a Prius getting 50 mpg without corporate capitalism.  In fact without corporate capitalism,  I would be riding a horse.
I couldn't go in the living room and listen to that jukebox without corporate capitalism either.   And that just wouldn't do.

Cheap, White and Empty Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVEvNmrpgSvggULOZjttjOSxAOP8cTxLm3h6TZezjyv8LS3zU1gw

Capitalism has always existed.

Those that have are the ones who sit in the front row and they're also the ones make decisions in both government and religion.

They know they can pull the strings without having to face judgment because they have puppets to do that for them.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhX5W7JoWI

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21Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 4:38 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I didn't say capitalism. I said corporate capitalism. And we have not always had corporate capitalism.
Religion came first. Government came second. Capitalism came third. And corporate capitalism came last.

22Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 4:42 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Capitalism has always existed.

Those that have are the ones who sit in the front row and they're also the ones make decisions in both government and religion.


But that applies to corporate capitalists. I practiced capitalism my whole working career, but the capitalism I practiced never gave me any opportunity to sit in the front row and make decisions for both government and religion.

23Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 4:49 pm

Guest


Guest

Cheap, White and Empty Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSDUVA63fUhTFxTWHE9hwqwG_TkZ9g6zA2TKCtPW99ocVnL-9my

Bob wrote:
By the way, the invention of religion and it's role in human civilization began eons before it invented either what we know as government or our invention of corporate capitalism.
That's what puts it in a class by itself.

I disagree. All three have existed since we humans have been able to form even loose social groups.

At times all three were held by one person. But not always.

Bob wrote:But to address your reply.  

The reason I believe a national government is necessary,  is not because "it supports key issues that I want".  
It's because without laws and a national government to enforce laws,  I would be living in a chaotic state that would be hard to have to deal with.

Your ending comment belies this statement.
 
Bob wrote:Every majority (of any kind) would walk over every minority (of any kind).  
The strongest individuals would walk over the weak.

Isn't that what governmental social justice does? Walk over the weak by sending in thugs to enforce what they have on their agenda?

Bob wrote:The states would be going to war with each other and I would be caught up in that.

Hasn't happened in over a hundred years Bob.

Bob wrote:Since other societys will also establish national governments,  our society needs a government to be able to compete with that and meet the challenges it presents us.  Without the combined resources of a national government,  the other governments would quickly conquer us.

So you're saying that we need government thugs carrying big sticks to enforce certain beliefs.

Bob wrote:Which brings me to your other point.  No I don't want to live where there's a government which is ruled by a religious book.  And that goes for a koran or a bible either one.
If either being the foundation of government was my only option,  I might indeed prefer to live without government.

That is your choice... However you didn't address the last question about a government that persecutes people like you but has a religious group providing protection.

Would you feel the same way about religious groups if the role played by government and religion is reversed?

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQoDawrsUuM

 Smile

24Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 4:57 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Damaged Eagle wrote: you didn't address the last question about a government that persecutes people like you but has a religious group providing protection.

Would you feel the same way about religious groups if the role played by government and religion is reversed?


I'm not sure I really understand the question the way it's stated there.
So I'll just repeat.

1.  I believe generally speaking that government is an evil but a necessary evil for the reasons I stated.

2.  If government was ruled by the koran (or bible) then I would have a different perspective.  If I had to live under that for a government then,  not only would I find none of it necessary any longer, but I would either try to escape from it or overthrow it.

25Cheap, White and Empty Empty Re: Cheap, White and Empty 1/12/2014, 4:58 pm

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:

Capitalism has always existed.

Those that have are the ones who sit in the front row and they're also the ones make decisions in both government and religion.


But that applies to corporate capitalists.  I practiced capitalism my whole working career,  but the capitalism I practiced never gave me any opportunity to sit in the front row and make decisions for both government and religion.

Cheap, White and Empty Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ35okxRChbJe9wqW8k5yF3P2nygNLHRr-V0yTAS9hhqAqQLiQ

Then you're not making enough to be considered worth their time.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7jLiXeFm_E

 Smile 

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