Greatest NBA passer of all time...

Magic was good, but come on...

The 'best' is always a subjective thing but Lebron is 'the best' I've ever witnessed all around . . . . .

There have been many others just as good or better imo... Oscar Robinson, Pistol Pete, Rick Barry, Stockton, Nash...

But Magic was the most impressive that I watched through their entire career... so far.

The 'best' is always a subjective thing but Lebron is 'the best' I've ever witnessed all around . . . . .


I think he is definitely the best player in the NBA today. However, I do not think his defense will ever let him get near the best players of all time. I think Magic Johnson was every bit as good of a passer, but Lebron is unselfish to a fault, and that has shown in regard to his rings.......he has a tendency to fold under pressure, and the 4th quarter not step up and close the game. He is getting better in this regard, and does now have a ring........but the best player......not even close......will be MJ, Wilt, and Bill Russell. Sadly, the clips never show defense, and MJ could do it all so much better than anybody who has played the game that sadly it will be a long time before a player has that kind of impact on the game. I have watched about 20 Jordan games in person, and I saw things on defense which simply will never be replicated....he had vision on the court which will never be matched.

I agree... MJ was the best player ever... and it's not even close. I'm impressed with the overall talent today though.

I agree... MJ was the best player ever... and it's not even close. I'm impressed with the overall talent today though.


The talent on the floor at just about any NBA franchise could beat an NBA all star team 40 years ago. The game is advancing with so much talent.

Although he is not breathing that same rarified air as the folk who immediately come to mind, Robert Horry is still my fav NBA player.

I'm not a huge NBA fan and I tend to follow Bama players at the next level. Big Shot Bob was not just a great down the stretch outside shooter, he played strong defense.

And he's a damned nice guy. LOL

Reading other forum members comments I felt obligated to mention one player who most assuredly deserves to be in this conversation and that is Dr. J one of the most astounding athletes who ever played the game . . . . he invented flying through the air!

2seaoat wrote:The 'best' is always a subjective thing but Lebron is 'the best' I've ever witnessed all around . . . . .


I think he is definitely the best player in the NBA today. However, I do not think his defense will ever let him get near the best players of all time. I think Magic Johnson was every bit as good of a passer, but Lebron is unselfish to a fault, and that has shown in regard to his rings.......he has a tendency to fold under pressure, and the 4th quarter not step up and close the game. He is getting better in this regard, and does now have a ring........but the best player......not even close......will be MJ, Wilt, and Bill Russell. Sadly, the clips never show defense, and MJ could do it all so much better than anybody who has played the game that sadly it will be a long time before a player has that kind of impact on the game. I have watched about 20 Jordan games in person, and I saw things on defense which simply will never be replicated....he had vision on the court which will never be matched.

Are you kidding me? Your Chicago homerism is clouding your perception here. MJ can't hold a candle to LeBron's defense. LeBron can shut down any size player from Rose to Howard. MJ couldn't do that.

Lazy right now and don't feel like looking it up, but I suspect LeBron owns MJ on every stat but scoring. Boards, steels, blocks, assists, you name it.

boards of FL wrote:

2seaoat wrote:The 'best' is always a subjective thing but Lebron is 'the best' I've ever witnessed all around . . . . .


I think he is definitely the best player in the NBA today. However, I do not think his defense will ever let him get near the best players of all time. I think Magic Johnson was every bit as good of a passer, but Lebron is unselfish to a fault, and that has shown in regard to his rings.......he has a tendency to fold under pressure, and the 4th quarter not step up and close the game. He is getting better in this regard, and does now have a ring........but the best player......not even close......will be MJ, Wilt, and Bill Russell. Sadly, the clips never show defense, and MJ could do it all so much better than anybody who has played the game that sadly it will be a long time before a player has that kind of impact on the game. I have watched about 20 Jordan games in person, and I saw things on defense which simply will never be replicated....he had vision on the court which will never be matched.

Are you kidding me? Your Chicago homerism is clouding your perception here. MJ can't hold a candle to LeBron's defense. LeBron can shut down any size player from Rose to Howard. MJ couldn't do that.

Better be careful boards next he will be telling your that Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah are better than LeBron. He definitely has a very clouded perspective.

Not clouded at all. Defense wins. An NBA team being held to 58 points......without your star point guard. The team with the best record the last couple of years......and they are sitting on top of their division most of the year......yep, you go ahead and think Miami is going to get by the Bulls this year. MJ on defense was a masterpiece....in conjunction with Pippen.....never seen anything like it....probably never will see it again.....James is not as good as Bryant in his prime, he will not get the rings for a reason, and MJ being compared to James is premature.......he could get the offensive stats.....but no college will give him that....even thought he got to 20k first......his defense and rings will not allow folks to make that comparison.....and now the talk about Bryant has dimmed.....it will be James for a few years, but that also will fade.....MJ walks a solitary path.......and I had the pleasure to watch him in person in playoff games....when it counts....and he did not fold like a wet noodle.....but James did do a lot of really cool passing....just could not close the deal.....what.....going on a decade....even after hand picking his team....he still does not close the deal.

One of the top twelve defenses will win the NBA.....please note that Mr. James team is not there.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-per-game

Look at that steal, transition, at 3:00. MJ couldn't do anything like that.

2seaoat, I have a lot of respect for you. But come on. You have to admit that you are a Chi-town homer. We've never seen anything like LeBron. This guy is physically gifted, is unselfish with the rock, and brings shitty ass teams coached by Mike Brown deep into the playoffs. Mike Brown didn't even last 1 full season with Kobe.

And Kobe had a dream team supporting cast!

I said James was the best in the NBA today......however, he really cannot close. A bulls team missing their star beat them like a drum....yes, not all the weakness in the heat team falls on James....Wade is getting old and inconsistent on his offense, but they do not play championship defense. In my opinion they would not have got by the Bulls last year if they had not lost their point guard.

They will not win a ring this year.....absolutely will not win. James is one of the nicest and talented players who has played in the NBA. He is an exceptional athlete and is a man among boys......but what separated MJ from mere mortals was between his ears.....he was not nice, and he took no prisoners on a basketball court..........James is not in the same zip code with Jordan, and I have been watching a great many heat games last year and this year.....James cannot close....period.........hell I watched the Laker game the other night, and that sorry team almost pulled a victory off.....Miami is a one peat.

boards of FL wrote:

Has to be John Stockton the "Pasty Gangsta"

boards of FL wrote:2seaoat, I have a lot of respect for you. But come on. You have to admit that you are a Chi-town homer. We've never seen anything like LeBron. This guy is physically gifted, is unselfish with the rock, and brings shitty ass teams coached by Mike Brown deep into the playoffs. Mike Brown didn't even last 1 full season with Kobe.

Lebron is missing one thing that Jordan and Kobe have/had...the ability to make others around him better and rise to the occasion.

2seaoat. Watch this video. I'm Mark Cuban, you're Skip Bayless.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

boards of FL wrote:2seaoat, I have a lot of respect for you. But come on. You have to admit that you are a Chi-town homer. We've never seen anything like LeBron. This guy is physically gifted, is unselfish with the rock, and brings shitty ass teams coached by Mike Brown deep into the playoffs. Mike Brown didn't even last 1 full season with Kobe.

Lebron is missing one thing that Jordan and Kobe have/had...the ability to make others around him better and rise to the occasion.

You have no business in this discussion if you really believe that.

2seaoat. Watch this video. I'm Mark Cuban, you're Skip Bayless.

Cuban made Skip look pretty foolish, but I think both were making points which you should listen.....first, NBA defenses can stop any player. Michael Jordan could be stopped.....it was rare, but he could be stopped. There are already rumors about James returning to Cleveland......why....because his Heat team is stoppable......absolutely stoppable, and like his early days at Cleveland, he does not have the supporting cast. I think the Pacers who currently have the best defense could bring Miami down early.....I think the Bulls will have to watch the Pacers......no the discussion between the two men said a great deal about how easy it has been historically to take James out of key games......it is a collar he has yet to remove, and I saw the bulls just dominate the Heat this year without their star.....running on four cylinders.

Again, show me some 4th quarter playoff closings......and I will entertain your fantasy at this point in his career.....but have you noticed the Kolby comparisons have faded.......was that because.....just maybe......folks realize how high the mountain is......and how far these mere mortals are from the peak.

MJ was surrounded by hall of famers, and the greatest coach we have ever seen. LeBron has the Midas touch. He turns shit into deep playoff runs by himself. MJ couldn't do that. Come on, 2seaoat.

A coach is part of every great player. Do you think Bill Russell would have been as good if he was not in Boston? No, sadly James has suffered from the lack of good coaching and it is a valid point......but he will never get the rings......and so are we going to say that he was not the greatest because he had lousy coaches? No, the simple fact remains when he gets his 7th championship people will entertain your idea.....but if OK wins this year and next.....if Chicago is healthy and wins.......when is he going to get his opportunity? James has very good players around him, but they do not play championship defense.....and they are going to be playing much better defensive teams in this years playoffs......the knicks and nets are going to not be easy this year. No, unless some key players get hurt in the East.....Miami will not even win the East. Now, when they do not.....will you admit that maybe you are premature.....like three years and three rings premature to even be talking about something so remote in comparison?