I Like Romney & Ryan - But

Nekochan wrote:So Mr Slice, what will you do?
I agree with you, we don't really know if/how Romney/Ryan will accomplish what they promise. And I don't know if they even can. But we know what we've had for 4 years.

Slicef18 wrote:I like what Romney and Ryan say but, All we get is sound bites about what they'll do and no, zero, nada explanation how they plan on accomplishing these lofty goals. They sound too much like the Popeye burger eating character J. Wellington Wimpy who's refrain is "I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

Nekochan wrote:Well, that might work if Romney=Bush. But he doesn't.
However Obama does equal Obama. And we know how that's turned out.

Floridatexan wrote:

Nekochan wrote:Well, that might work if Romney=Bush. But he doesn't.
However Obama does equal Obama. And we know how that's turned out.

Sometimes I wish I could live in a place where denial is the order of the day. I hoped for more from Obama in his first term, but he wasn't responsible for the state of the union when he entered office...Bush was. And if you don't see that Romney's advisors came straight from the Bush camp and Romney's platform and agenda are strikingly similar to Bush's, then there's no way to get through to you.

Floridatexan wrote:

Nekochan wrote:Well, that might work if Romney=Bush. But he doesn't.
However Obama does equal Obama. And we know how that's turned out.

Sometimes I wish I could live in a place where denial is the order of the day. I hoped for more from Obama in his first term, but he wasn't responsible for the state of the union when he entered office...Bush was. And if you don't see that Romney's advisors came straight from the Bush camp and Romney's platform and agenda are strikingly similar to Bush's, then there's no way to get through to you.

PBulldog2 wrote:The fact that the health care bill was passed proves to me that he can get things done....he just needs more time.

Nekochan wrote:So Mr Slice, what will you do?
I agree with you, we don't really know if/how Romney/Ryan will accomplish what they promise. And I don't know if they even can. But we know what we've had for 4 years.

Bob wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:The fact that the health care bill was passed proves to me that he can get things done....he just needs more time.

The only legislation he got passed was only in his first two years when the democrats controlled both houses of congress, PB. Then after we got a divided congress in 2010 all that ended.
And since we'll likely continue to have a divided congress after today's elections, obama or romney either one will be faced with that and neither will be able to get anything significant passed through congress. With either as president we'll continue to have government gridlock until if and when the president and both houses of congress are all the same political party.
Just as one example, it really annoys me to hear Romney say over and over during the campaign "the first day in office I'm going to eliminate obamacare". What's so depressing is apparently he knows his voter base is ignorant enough to believe he can do that without the consent of congress.

Floridatexan wrote:

He's counting on a very ignorant and uninformed or misinformed voter base.

Yella wrote:

Nekochan wrote:So Mr Slice, what will you do?
I agree with you, we don't really know if/how Romney/Ryan will accomplish what they promise. And I don't know if they even can. But we know what we've had for 4 years.

No offense, neko, but we must not forget that we also know what Cheney and Rove and their henchmen did for the eight years prior to the Obama years. I think the Republican philosophy is all about a few people making fortunes while everyone is in the dark. I prefer to think if McCain had been elected this country would be in a chaos of ruin instead of slowly crawling out of the their profit taking through wars and the deregulations that allowed them to rape the environment.

Nekochan wrote:

Yella wrote:

Nekochan wrote:So Mr Slice, what will you do?
I agree with you, we don't really know if/how Romney/Ryan will accomplish what they promise. And I don't know if they even can. But we know what we've had for 4 years.

No offense, neko, but we must not forget that we also know what Cheney and Rove and their henchmen did for the eight years prior to the Obama years. I think the Republican philosophy is all about a few people making fortunes while everyone is in the dark. I prefer to think if McCain had been elected this country would be in a chaos of ruin instead of slowly crawling out of the their profit taking through wars and the deregulations that allowed them to rape the environment.

You and I just have a different viewpoint of what Republicans favor.
If anything, it's the Democrats who want to keep people in the dark by making them rely on government to get by.

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Yella wrote:

Nekochan wrote:So Mr Slice, what will you do?
I agree with you, we don't really know if/how Romney/Ryan will accomplish what they promise. And I don't know if they even can. But we know what we've had for 4 years.

No offense, neko, but we must not forget that we also know what Cheney and Rove and their henchmen did for the eight years prior to the Obama years. I think the Republican philosophy is all about a few people making fortunes while everyone is in the dark. I prefer to think if McCain had been elected this country would be in a chaos of ruin instead of slowly crawling out of the their profit taking through wars and the deregulations that allowed them to rape the environment.

You and I just have a different viewpoint of what Republicans favor.
If anything, it's the Democrats who want to keep people in the dark by making them rely on government to get by.

That is a very misleading statement. Today's Republicans love big government and all of its trappings, including big deficits. It's the allocation of big-government resources that gets argued over and fought about. Republicans want to keep the Military Industrial Complex (which relys on the government to get by) going at full tilt. They want to keep their corporate friends happy and subsidized. In other words, Republicans love and want to keep in place the portions of big-government dear to them, while attacking the portions of big government favored by the Democrats.

It's the classic welfare versus warfare argument. Both are spawned by big-government, and are fueled by deficit spending--and both help create growing debt. Arguments can be made in favor of both sides, but the reality is that both sides need to be drastically reshaped and reformed.

The reformation will eventually be driven by the size of the national debt, and the results will not be pretty nor will they make anyone happy. We won't see this happen in the next four years, but in the 2016-2024 cycle, it will happen.

Nekochan wrote:

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Yella wrote:

Nekochan wrote:So Mr Slice, what will you do?
I agree with you, we don't really know if/how Romney/Ryan will accomplish what they promise. And I don't know if they even can. But we know what we've had for 4 years.

No offense, neko, but we must not forget that we also know what Cheney and Rove and their henchmen did for the eight years prior to the Obama years. I think the Republican philosophy is all about a few people making fortunes while everyone is in the dark. I prefer to think if McCain had been elected this country would be in a chaos of ruin instead of slowly crawling out of the their profit taking through wars and the deregulations that allowed them to rape the environment.

You and I just have a different viewpoint of what Republicans favor.
If anything, it's the Democrats who want to keep people in the dark by making them rely on government to get by.

That is a very misleading statement. Today's Republicans love big government and all of its trappings, including big deficits. It's the allocation of big-government resources that gets argued over and fought about. Republicans want to keep the Military Industrial Complex (which relys on the government to get by) going at full tilt. They want to keep their corporate friends happy and subsidized. In other words, Republicans love and want to keep in place the portions of big-government dear to them, while attacking the portions of big government favored by the Democrats.

It's the classic welfare versus warfare argument. Both are spawned by big-government, and are fueled by deficit spending--and both help create growing debt. Arguments can be made in favor of both sides, but the reality is that both sides need to be drastically reshaped and reformed.

The reformation will eventually be driven by the size of the national debt, and the results will not be pretty nor will they make anyone happy. We won't see this happen in the next four years, but in the 2016-2024 cycle, it will happen.

Well, it's my opinion. I don't think that pro-business means anti-working person. But yes, both sides are guilty of big spending.

Bob wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:The fact that the health care bill was passed proves to me that he can get things done....he just needs more time.

The only legislation he got passed was only in his first two years when the democrats controlled both houses of congress, PB. Then after we got a divided congress in 2010 all that ended.
And since we'll likely continue to have a divided congress after today's elections, obama or romney either one will be faced with that and neither will be able to get anything significant passed through congress. With either as president we'll continue to have government gridlock until if and when the president and both houses of congress are all the same political party.
Just as one example, it really annoys me to hear Romney say over and over during the campaign "the first day in office I'm going to eliminate obamacare". What's so depressing is apparently he knows his voter base is ignorant enough to believe he can do that without the consent of congress.

Bob wrote:Just to help bolster Z's argument...

http://gbgm-umc.org/Response/articles/corporate_welfare.html

http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-statistics-vs-social-welfare-statistics/