If I was born in iraq or iran, I might be fighting Americans. Is it a crime to have pride in where you come from?

The same holds true for the Nazis who obeyed orders to gas the Jews. Or the Jap Kamikaze pilots who committed suicide for a child emperor.
Was it a crime for them to have pride in all that too?

What say you? I'm just the messenger, I offer no opinion. I report, you decide.

Bob wrote:The same holds true for the Nazis who obeyed orders to gas the Jews. Or the Jap Kamikaze pilots who committed suicide for a child emperor.
Was it a crime for them to have pride in all that too?

What say you? I'm just the messenger, I offer no opinion. I report, you decide.

Yes, just as military members have a legal responsibility to not follow or carry out an unlawful order, civilians have a moral responsibility to stand up to the aforementioned items you mentioned. When they do not and their nations are destroyed like Germany and Japan were, well that is the price you have to pay. I think America will have a severe price to pay if Obama is reelected. He represents nothing of what this nation was founded upon and supports everything anti-American and un-Democratic that would continue to turn our nation into a third world country.

Bob wrote:The same holds true for the Nazis who obeyed orders to gas the Jews. Or the Jap Kamikaze pilots who committed suicide for a child emperor.
Was it a crime for them to have pride in all that too?

What say you? I'm just the messenger, I offer no opinion. I report, you decide.

I think its completly acceptable to have pride in country and you should.

one thing I dont get about some countries is the people see america and they want that. they want that freedom. freedom to succeed, work acheive, live the kind of life we have over here that is no where else. Then they come to this country and try to make it into how the country they just left was. that makes no sense to me.

The American way was never about having the gov provide anything for you. it was always about having the freedom to work and achieve a certain lifestyle. not a garentee that everybodies works would aquire the same results. becuase thats impossible. not everyone has the same intelligence, skill, drive and most importantly drive. because its "DRIVE' that makes the difference if a perons is going to be successful or not in whatever they decide to do. its not that you will have road blocks, all will have road blocks, its how you get over those road blocks and carry on that makes the difference. This used to be what was taught in this country and it has a lot to do with pride in country and being who you are. its American exceptialism at its best.

We are slowly going away from that with anti-americanism on the rise in this country, the thought that the gov should provide things for us as rights. these things kill drive, they kill pride in oneself and in country.

Have a awesome day!

God Bless America!

If I was an Afghani and witnessed a well-fed American "invader" abuse someone or lost a family member to an abuse, I would probably be taking up arms to defend my homeland.

I know that there is oil over in the Middle East but do not believe we have the right to go over there and push our weight around. We got Bin Laden and killed a bunch of al Qaeda... you can't get them all.

Fighting to preserve your homeland does NOT give me a right to kill innocent men, women, and children, like the Germans did to the Jews, or like WE did at My Lai in Vietnam.

Yomama wrote:If I was an Afghani and witnessed a well-fed American "invader" abuse someone or lost a family member to an abuse, I would probably be taking up arms to defend my homeland.

That does NOT give me a right to kill innocent men, women, and children, like the Germans did to the Jews, or like WE did at My Lai in Vietnam.

Yeah the only way you can kill innocent people now days properly is with a cowardly unmanned drone attack...A My Lai every week.

I am so proud we can kill so many with so little conscience....My buttons just burst.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:I am so proud we can kill so many with so little conscience....My buttons just burst.

Have you watched those tapes of helicopter battles against people in Afghanistan? They start out verifying weapons via infrared and start killing people, then almost get into a frenzy killing anybody with a heat signature. Granted, most of them are soldiers, but I would hate to be a civilian that was just happening to cross the mountain at the time the battle happened. There is no place to hide from that infrared camera on the copters. It's like shooting fish in a barrell.

There's just too much money being made making wars..
It doesn't matter if we kill civilians like we did during Shock-n-Awe..
It's called collateral damage so that means it's Okay to do it..

The title to this thread is a quote from a recent post Ghandi made.
Ghandi was expressing the opinion that whenever the leaders of any country order their citizens to fight in a war then those citizens always have a moral obligation to do so. It's another way of saying "my country right or wrong" and it applies to the citizens of Iran as well as to our country.
Back at the PNJ forum another poster expressed something similiar when he said those people gunned down in the streets by the government in Iran were traitors just because they were rebelling against the Iranian leadership. That instead they should have been willing to fight on the side of the Iranian leaders.

Back to what I said erlier.

I can see some of you are full to the brim with National pride.

Dont worry. That kind of thought eventually seeps into the system via youth and then grows with it and then boom. The nation falls.

You wont have long before this terrible nation is over, so rejoice and know your efforts have not been in vain.

Rogue wrote:Back to what I said erlier.

I can see some of you are full to the brim with National pride.

Dont worry. That kind of thought eventually seeps into the system via youth and then grows with it and then boom. The nation falls.

You wont have long before this terrible nation is over, so rejoice and know your efforts have not been in vain.

So I guess by just my asking this question that means I'm now one of the people who is most responsible for bringing an end to our country.
Remarkable.

Bob wrote:The title to this thread is a quote from a recent post Ghandi made.
Ghandi was expressing the opinion that whenever the leaders of any country order their citizens to fight in a war then those citizens always have a moral obligation to do so. It's another way of saying "my country right or wrong" and it applies to the citizens of Iran as well as to our country.
Back at the PNJ forum another poster expressed something similiar when he said those people gunned down in the streets in Iran were traitors just because they were rebelling against the Iranian leadership. That instead they should have been willing to fight on the side of the Iranian leaders.

Since we have an all voluntary military, these Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines are no longer civilian citizens. They are military men and women and are sworn to uphold the Constitution and the orders of those appointed above him/her. Does this include the killing of innocent men women and children. No not at all, but collateral damage is inevitable and unavoidable. Does that mean I agree with it, no, as a matter of fact, I would rather have all our brave men and women at home instead of dying on foreign soil.

Bob wrote:

Rogue wrote:Back to what I said erlier.

I can see some of you are full to the brim with National pride.

Dont worry. That kind of thought eventually seeps into the system via youth and then grows with it and then boom. The nation falls.

You wont have long before this terrible nation is over, so rejoice and know your efforts have not been in vain.

So I guess by just my asking this question that means I'm now one of the people who is most responsible for bringing an end to our country.
Remarkable.

I didnt say that. ( people can fit thier own shoes )

Ill put it as plain as I can.

You either beleive in American exceptialism

or you dont.

If you dont, trust me, it will go away. Thats when you will miss it.

Ghost_Rider1 wrote:

collateral damage is inevitable and unavoidable.

I don't give a hoot about collateral damage anymore. What I care about now is the same Afghanis fighting alongside our troops shooting them in the back and causing 16% of the American casualties.

http://dawn.com/2012/09/27/us-soldiers-death-reveals-how-taliban-linked-afghan-soldiers-plan-attacks/

Rogue wrote:[

You either beleive in American exceptialism

or you dont.

If you dont, trust me, it will go away. Thats when you will miss it.

I agree, it is pretty "exceptional" when the people we're dying to protect are also shooting us in the back. I've never heard of that happening in any war in history until this one. So it's not only "exceptional, " it's goddamn unique.

Bob wrote:

Rogue wrote:[

You either beleive in American exceptialism

or you dont.

If you dont, trust me, it will go away. Thats when you will miss it.

I agree, it is pretty "exceptional" when the people we're dying to protect are also shooting us in the back. I've never heard of that happening in any war in history until this one.

They don't want us there and Most US citizens agree we don't want to waste anymore of our tax dollars there but the MIC is running the show and as long as they're raking in the profits the wars will Never stop..

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/08/14294269-visit-detroit-at-your-own-risk-police-union-warns?lite

We can't even control the crime in America but we need to be the police of the world..

Rogue wrote:

Bob wrote:

Rogue wrote:Back to what I said erlier.

I can see some of you are full to the brim with National pride.

Dont worry. That kind of thought eventually seeps into the system via youth and then grows with it and then boom. The nation falls.

You wont have long before this terrible nation is over, so rejoice and know your efforts have not been in vain.

So I guess by just my asking this question that means I'm now one of the people who is most responsible for bringing an end to our country.
Remarkable.

I didnt say that. ( people can fit thier own shoes )

Ill put it as plain as I can.

You either beleive in American exceptialism

or you dont.

If you dont, trust me, it will go away. Thats when you will miss it.

The only place we are exceptional is in our minds. The rest of the world laughs at us.

Dreamsglore wrote:


The only place we are exceptional is in our minds. The rest of the world laughs at us.

The whole world engages in this nationalism and flag-waving and "my country right or wrong", not just this country. Always has.
So if they're laughing at us they need to look in their mirrors too.

I'm not wanting us to emulate those nutters we're fighting. I'm wanting us to let them alone to wallow in their own misery while we concentrate on trying to stop some of our ours.

Bob wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:


The only place we are exceptional is in our minds. The rest of the world laughs at us.

The whole world engages in this nationalism and flag-waving and "my country right or wrong", not just this country. Always has.
So if they're laughing at us they need to look in their mirrors too.

I'm not wanting us to emulate those nutters we're fighting. I'm wanting us to let them alone to wallow in their own misery while we concentrate on trying to stop some of our own.

bob,
They won't understand that we're there to help them till after we kill a bunch of them first.
Then we send the survivors food and money and build them schools to blow up after we leave.

ghandi wrote:

bob,
They won't understand that we're there to help them till after we kill a bunch of them first.
Then we send the survivors food and money and build them schools to blow up after we leave.

I dunno, ghandi, I actually have zero desire to help them, or send them money and food, or build them schools. That's because I'm a conservative who doesn't believe in that sort of liberal redistribution of wealth.

Bob wrote:

ghandi wrote:

bob,
They won't understand that we're there to help them till after we kill a bunch of them first.
Then we send the survivors food and money and build them schools to blow up after we leave.

I dunno, ghandi, I actually have zero desire to help them, or send them money and food, or build them schools. That's because I'm a conservative who doesn't believe in that sort of liberal redistribution of wealth.

Nobody wants their tax money to go towards feeding and educating people in other countries. So why do we do it? I don't even want my tax money used to feed useless people here let alone over seas.
If you can't buy it on your own, you don't get it.
The government mantality of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor really sucks. Only the lazy, stupid, and poor like that deal. And they're all lazy, stupid, and poor because that is the path they chose in life.

ghandi wrote:

So why do we do it?

Mainly because some of "us" are profiting from doing it, ghandi. And those same ones of "us" seem to have the most influence on what "our" government (democrat or republican) does or does not do.

There's a line in a movie which is as profound as anything Plato or bible prophets or anybody else has ever said, Ghandi.
It was in the movie "All the Presidents' Men" and it was uttered by a character called "Deep Throat". Do you know what that line was, ghandi?
It was only three words.

Bob wrote:

ghandi wrote:

So why do we do it?

Mainly because some of "us" are profiting from doing it, ghandi. And those same ones of "us" seem to have the most influence on what "our" government (democrat or republican) does or does not do.

There's a line in a movie which is as profound as anything Plato or bible prophets or anybody else has ever said, Ghandi.
It was in the movie "All the Presidents' Men" and it was uttered by a character called "Deep Throat". Do you know what that line was, ghandi?
It was only three words.

Because we can? Or was that obamas campaign slogan?

ghandi wrote:

Because we can? Or was that obamas campaign slogan?

No, when that line was uttered in a parking garage in Washington D.C., Obama was only about ten years old, Ghandi.
Believe it or not, life didn't start with Obama. I've heard of evolution and I've heard of creationism, but I've never heard a theory that life originated with Obama.

Bob wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:


The only place we are exceptional is in our minds. The rest of the world laughs at us.

The whole world engages in this nationalism and flag-waving and "my country right or wrong", not just this country. Always has.
So if they're laughing at us they need to look in their mirrors too.

I'm not wanting us to emulate those nutters we're fighting. I'm wanting us to let them alone to wallow in their own misery while we concentrate on trying to stop some of our ours.

I'm not so sure all other countries have done the things we've done from slavery to Japanese imprisonment to waterboarding to not taking care of our citizens healthcare needs. I don't call that exceptionalism.We have a lot of things to be proud of and a lot to be not so proud of. Some countries do a lot better than we do.