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Trump v. Sanders

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ZVUGKTUBM
boards of FL
2seaoat
Markle
RealLindaL
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1Trump v. Sanders Empty Trump v. Sanders 2/11/2016, 2:54 am

RealLindaL



To all those who love Trump and condemn Sanders, I have just one question:

Truly, what's the difference between promising the people free in-state college tuition paid for by a currently non-existent tax on Wall Street speculation, and promising the people a huge beautiful wall all along the southern border, paid for by a currently non-existent commitment from Mexico??

I mean, really, come on.  These men are both full of malarkey, plain and simple, and I use that word in lieu of others that my southern upbringing would simply not allow.

Heaven help us all.   Even Kasich scares me.   Where is our knight in shining armor?

2Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/11/2016, 6:00 am

Markle

Markle

You're being facetious aren't you?

3Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/11/2016, 8:01 am

2seaoat



Bernie Sanders is not full of anything but truth. This idea that we have to spend five trillion dollars and cripple 30k Americans because we lose one American a week to a terrorist is insanity. The idea to provide a free high school education to every American was a radical idea in its time, and my cousin had free college tuition in California in the sixties. Free college tuition is simply a priority in a budget process which Bernie has been arguing for over five years when I listened to him on lunch with Bernie on the Thom Hartman radio show.

In regard to taxing wall street transactions. A no brainer. In regard to returning tax rates to half of what they were during this country's boom times during Ike is not only correct economically, but fair. When you allow unfettered capitalism to take over American government where subsidy and cuts in taxes has left the middle class diminished, it is time to have common sense applied and return this country to different priorities where Americans come first.

In regard to Mr. Trump building an effective wall, I actually agree with a secure southern border, but have no use for racism or not giving folks who have basically a speeding ticket( crossing the border without papers) no path to citizenship. I am so tired of the likes of Cruz, and Rubio. I think Bernie is starting a political revolution where Americans are realizing that there are common sense answers to the theft which continues......Kasich has a proven track record of balancing budgets and spurring economic growth.

4Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/11/2016, 9:53 am

Guest


Guest

Bernie as potus would speed the beginning of the end... and probably wind up with a wall being built anyway.

It would just be to keep people in... instead of out... lol. Just like east germany.

5Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/11/2016, 10:28 am

boards of FL

boards of FL

RealLindaL wrote:To all those who love Trump and condemn Sanders, I have just one question:

Truly, what's the difference between promising the people free in-state college tuition paid for by a currently non-existent tax on Wall Street speculation, and promising the people a huge beautiful wall all along the southern border, paid for by a currently non-existent commitment from Mexico??



One of those policies offers a benefit to society. The other does not.


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6Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/11/2016, 3:32 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

RealLindaL wrote:Where is our knight in shining armor?

There are no more Reagans. Besides, all he did was permanently establish deficit spending as an annual budget item, and he showed other politicians how to buy whatever they wanted and charge it to future generations.

The Gramm Rudman Hollings Act was enacted in 1985 to stop Reagan in his tracks before too much damage was done, but it failed miserably and the credit card continued to be run-up by politicians from both sides of the aisle.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

7Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/11/2016, 5:03 pm

RealLindaL



Everyone is missing the point entirely.  Regardless of the relative merits of their respective promised projects, neither of these men has a snowball's chance in Hades of getting either done, and if they don't know that or at least strongly suspect it, they're blinded by their own ideology (in Bernie's case the ideology of Socialism, and in Trump's case the ideology of "Do whatever it takes to win").   They are both making major promises to the American people that they almost certainly can't keep, and one or the other may very well be elected on that basis.   It's just wrong, on BOTH sides.

Now, one may ask, "What else is new in politics?" but what I'm saying is, why does it have to be that way, and why do we swallow this crapola?  Where is the level-headed, substantial, knowledgeable, capable, true statesman who has solid, achievable solutions and can unite us as a nation?

And heaven knows I'm not speaking of a Ronald Reagan.

8Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/11/2016, 5:56 pm

knothead

knothead

RealLindaL wrote:Everyone is missing the point entirely.  Regardless of the relative merits of their respective promised projects, neither of these men has a snowball's chance in Hades of getting either done, and if they don't know that or at least strongly suspect it, they're blinded by their own ideology (in Bernie's case the ideology of Socialism, and in Trump's case the ideology of "Do whatever it takes to win").   They are both making major promises to the American people that they almost certainly can't keep, and one or the other may very well be elected on that basis.   It's just wrong, on BOTH sides.

Now, one may ask, "What else is new in politics?" but what I'm saying is, why does it have to be that way, and why do we swallow this crapola?  Where is the level-headed, substantial, knowledgeable, capable, true statesman who has solid, achievable solutions and can unite us as a nation?

And heaven knows I'm not speaking of a Ronald Reagan.


On the GOP side the population is bombarded 24/7 on AM radio making hateful ridiculing statements all focused on President Obama and their conviction that he is the anti Christ, e.g., sixty percent of registered Republicans believe the President is a Muslim. This hateful rhetoric has actually resonated with large swaths of blue collar uneducated citizens who want to have someone or something to blame for their own shortcomings. Therefore, cumulatively and over years of saturation of political poison served daily on numerous radio right wing stations being openly disrespectful they then conclude that 'it must be true'. The President has been tried and convicted on hyperbole resulting in good well meaning people becoming irrational and are now being presented with flawed or radical candidates.

9Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/11/2016, 5:59 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

RealLindaL wrote:Everyone is missing the point entirely.  Regardless of the relative merits of their respective promised projects, neither of these men has a snowball's chance in Hades of getting either done, and if they don't know that or at least strongly suspect it, they're blinded by their own ideology (in Bernie's case the ideology of Socialism, and in Trump's case the ideology of "Do whatever it takes to win").   They are both making major promises to the American people that they almost certainly can't keep, and one or the other may very well be elected on that basis.   It's just wrong, on BOTH sides.

Now, one may ask, "What else is new in politics?" but what I'm saying is, why does it have to be that way, and why do we swallow this crapola?  Where is the level-headed, substantial, knowledgeable, capable, true statesman who has solid, achievable solutions and can unite us as a nation?

And heaven knows I'm not speaking of a Ronald Reagan.


So let's apply your logic to climate change.

There is a 100% consensus among scientific organizations of the world that states that 1) climate change is occurring and 2) it is very likely that man-made activities are influencing that climate change.   This is unanimous.

Now, the current House of Representatives is lopsidedly republican due to house district gerrymandering.  Therefore, there is a 0% chance of any legislation being passed that will address this problem of climate change that, again, scientific organizations around the world unanimously agree needs to be addressed.  Put another way, when politicians bring up policies aimed at addressing climate change, there is zero chance of that ever coming to fruition until we can correct house district gerrymandering.

Are you suggesting that it is "crapola" for politicians to continue raising this issue and offering solutions to it nevertheless?   Are you suggesting that a true statesmen would  yield to house district gerrymandering and simply allow a real-world existential threat to humanity go on unaddressed?

"Listen, everyone.  While it is true that the world scientific community unanimously agree that we face an existential threat in climate change, republicans have nevertheless redrawn house districts such that their majority is impenetrable.  Therefore, we will simply have to ignore this issue for the time being."

Does that sound like a statement a true states-person would make?

Let's say you're about to begin a negotiation of some sort. Let's say you're selling some item. Do you set your price at the lowest level you're willing to take because that is what you feel is realistic?


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10Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/11/2016, 7:02 pm

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

RealLindaL wrote: ...
Truly, what's the difference between promising the people free in-state college tuition paid for by a currently non-existent tax on Wall Street speculation, and promising the people a huge beautiful wall all along the southern border, paid for by a currently non-existent commitment from Mexico??


Well, for one thing the wall could generate income as a tourist attraction. Kinda like the Grand Canyon, the St Louis Gateway Arch, & the Great Wall of China.  

It could have elevators that take one to a broad walkway on top and people could walk from San Diego to the Gulf of Mexico if they wanted to.    Space could be leased to vendors like Starbucks, & those cell phone case & sunglasses kiosks like you see in a mall.     Maybe even some fast food joints every five to ten miles.

We could charge Mexicans double just to come up on the wall and look over it at our beautiful country.

Trump v. Sanders Big_thumb_e7b55781e5bfe5011407572a23f237be

11Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/12/2016, 2:06 am

2seaoat



Bernie could win the general election by a landslide.....people are listening to his message which is simple common sense. He is a good man, and his plans will work. He still has to energize the electorate to beat Hillary.....a tough battle to win. In the general, he probably will be facing a stupid....much easier.

12Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/12/2016, 2:00 pm

RealLindaL



I rarely if ever agree with Charles Krauthammer in even the tiniest way, but the following Washington Post column, which I saw for the first time in today's PNJ, echoes virtually everything I'm saying about the Trump/Sanders pair.  Skip the "Obama mess" and "Obama effect" crapola and it almost could've been written by yours truly (OK, well maybe I flatter myself - ha):

Sanders and Trump:  Magic sells

13Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/12/2016, 2:09 pm

knothead

knothead

RealLindaL wrote:I rarely if ever agree with Charles Krauthammer in even the tiniest way, but the following Washington Post column, which I saw for the first time in today's PNJ, echoes virtually everything I'm saying about the Trump/Sanders pair.  Skip the "Obama mess" and "Obama effect" crapola and it almost could've been written by yours truly (OK, well maybe I flatter myself - ha):

Sanders and Trump:  Magic sells

Very well written . . .

14Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/12/2016, 2:13 pm

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

RealLindaL wrote:Everyone is missing the point entirely.  Regardless of the relative merits of their respective promised projects, neither of these men has a snowball's chance in Hades of getting either done, and if they don't know that or at least strongly suspect it, they're blinded by their own ideology (in Bernie's case the ideology of Socialism, and in Trump's case the ideology of "Do whatever it takes to win").   They are both making major promises to the American people that they almost certainly can't keep, and one or the other may very well be elected on that basis.   It's just wrong, on BOTH sides.

Now, one may ask, "What else is new in politics?" but what I'm saying is, why does it have to be that way, and why do we swallow this crapola?  Where is the level-headed, substantial, knowledgeable, capable, true statesman who has solid, achievable solutions and can unite us as a nation?

And heaven knows I'm not speaking of a Ronald Reagan.

With all due respect, Linda, Bernie Sanders is not a "socialist" per se. He's an advocate of democratic socialism:

http://www.dsausa.org/what_is_democratic_socialism

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US.

[...]

15Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/12/2016, 2:36 pm

Guest


Guest

Without pointing out your revision and malleable terms... what you describe in such glowing terms is mob rule.

Just look to spain, portugal, greece... etc. They've voted themselves largesse until their country is insolvent.

With that knowledge a wise person looks for a different course... and a lemming picks up speed toward the cliff.

16Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/13/2016, 2:19 am

RealLindaL



Floridatexan wrote:
With all due respect, Linda, Bernie Sanders is not a "socialist" per se.  He's an advocate of democratic socialism:

http://www.dsausa.org/what_is_democratic_socialism

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US.

[...]


With all due respect in return, Florida, Bernie should do his own explaining of his own label, but for some reason he really doesn't, not sure why.  Maybe it's on his website, but I'm talking about up front and visible delineation of his core philosophy, not just calling for "revolution" (which isn't going to happen, btw, and only just scares most people).

Look, I can foresee a return to the American Dream for everyone by way of certain major changes that don't have to amount to revolution and the death of our capitalist society -- the one that's brought us so very far but has gone astray.   Somehow returning substantial manufacturing enterprise back to our own shores (without giving up even more tax revenue) would be a substantial beginning if not an absolute necessity, coupled with campaign finance reform including, somehow, a reversal of the Citizens United decision.  That's for starters.

The bottom line is that, as likable as he is (and as enticing his call for substantial societal giveaways -- especially among the young and the disadvantaged), Bernie Sanders would almost assuredly fail in the general election. Even if he should somehow manage  to win the White House, we could only look forward to four more years of total and complete gridlock in Congress.

Yes, that could happen with Hillary, too, but at least there'd be a glimmer of hope there.  Not so with Bernie.   He may as well be black and considered Muslim for all the differently he'd be treated and respected from what Obama has been.  The word would go out on day one among Congressional conservatives, if not all Republicans:  Make sure he's a one term president, and let him accomplish nothing.  Zero, zip, nada.   This is not going to bring our nation back together.

17Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/13/2016, 2:57 am

Markle

Markle

boards of FL wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:To all those who love Trump and condemn Sanders, I have just one question:

Truly, what's the difference between promising the people free in-state college tuition paid for by a currently non-existent tax on Wall Street speculation, and promising the people a huge beautiful wall all along the southern border, paid for by a currently non-existent commitment from Mexico??

One of those policies offers a benefit to society.  The other does not.

Indeed, the wall benefits all society by protecting our borders.

As it has done in other countries, free college tuition leads to far higher costs of colleges and lackadaisical student body. In the meantime our taxes will skyrocket, punishing the lower and middle-income households. After all, who do you expect to pay $19 TRILLION in additional taxes over the next years?

18Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/13/2016, 6:17 pm

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:Bernie as potus would speed the beginning of the end... and probably wind up with a wall being built anyway.

It would just be to keep people in... instead of out... lol. Just like east germany.

With a minimum wage of $15, free college and healthcare, a military funded for defense, we would have a burgeoning economy, better paying jobs through education, and literally no healthcare costs.

Feel free to leave, if you will. I'm sure as hell staying!

19Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/13/2016, 10:15 pm

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

RealLindaL wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
With all due respect, Linda, Bernie Sanders is not a "socialist" per se.  He's an advocate of democratic socialism:

http://www.dsausa.org/what_is_democratic_socialism

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US.

[...]


With all due respect in return, Florida, Bernie should do his own explaining of his own label, but for some reason he really doesn't, not sure why.  Maybe it's on his website, but I'm talking about up front and visible delineation of his core philosophy, not just calling for "revolution" (which isn't going to happen, btw, and only just scares most people).

Look, I can foresee a return to the American Dream for everyone by way of certain major changes that don't have to amount to revolution and the death of our capitalist society -- the one that's brought us so very far but has gone astray.   Somehow returning substantial manufacturing enterprise back to our own shores (without giving up even more tax revenue) would be a substantial beginning if not an absolute necessity, coupled with campaign finance reform including, somehow, a reversal of the Citizens United decision.  That's for starters.

The bottom line is that, as likable as he is (and as enticing his call for substantial societal giveaways -- especially among the young and the disadvantaged), Bernie Sanders would almost assuredly fail in the general election. Even if he should somehow manage  to win the White House, we could only look forward to four more years of total and complete gridlock in Congress.

Yes, that could happen with Hillary, too, but at least there'd be a glimmer of hope there.  Not so with Bernie.   He may as well be black and considered Muslim for all the differently he'd be treated and respected from what Obama has been.  The word would go out on day one among Congressional conservatives, if not all Republicans:  Make sure he's a one term president, and let him accomplish nothing.  Zero, zip, nada.   This is not going to bring our nation back together.

At this point, a certain segment of our society is going to have to come to grips with our changing demographic. Just because we've had an obstructionist GOP for the last few years doesn't mean that we can't (finally) move into the 21st Century. We are a capitalist society, but we also are a democratic republic. This means to me that, as a society, we prevent the exploitation of the majority by a well connected and influential minority (translation: $$$$$$$$$). We can't allow our country to be bought and sold by the wealthy, and in particular by the wealthy who make their money from wars.

20Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/13/2016, 11:31 pm

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Bernie as potus would speed the beginning of the end... and probably wind up with a wall being built anyway.

It would just be to keep people in... instead of out... lol. Just like east germany.

With a minimum wage of $15, free college and healthcare, a military funded for defense, we would have a burgeoning economy, better paying jobs through education, and literally no healthcare costs.

Feel free to leave, if you will.  I'm sure as hell staying!

EVEN YOU can't believe that nonsense.

Trump v. Sanders 4541f6d1-5ba1-4d81-a403-9921e308d71e_zpscj0wxi2v

21Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/14/2016, 6:17 am

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:Without pointing out your revision and malleable terms... what you describe in such glowing terms is mob rule.

Just look to spain, portugal, greece... etc. They've voted themselves largesse until their country is insolvent.

With that knowledge a wise person looks for a different course... and a lemming picks up speed toward the cliff.

At last! Pkrbum finally admits he believes the richest 1% should rule America --- he says that if we the people actually participate in government, it will be "MOB RULE."

How does your foot taste Mr. Pkrbum? LOL

22Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/14/2016, 6:21 am

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Bernie as potus would speed the beginning of the end... and probably wind up with a wall being built anyway.

It would just be to keep people in... instead of out... lol. Just like east germany.

With a minimum wage of $15, free college and healthcare, a military funded for defense, we would have a burgeoning economy, better paying jobs through education, and literally no healthcare costs.

Feel free to leave, if you will.  I'm sure as hell staying!

EVEN YOU can't believe that nonsense.  

Trump v. Sanders 4541f6d1-5ba1-4d81-a403-9921e308d71e_zpscj0wxi2v

With assholes like you it's always about the money. How in hell do you put a price tag on happiness, satisfaction and fairness? There are numerous European countries that offer these benefits to their people and they are quite successful. Ask someone from Sweden, Norway, Denmark, The Netherlands ...

Death to Amerika Inc. -- Corporate control of our government through corrupt campaign financing.

23Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/14/2016, 9:37 am

Guest


Guest

Wordslinger wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Without pointing out your revision and malleable terms... what you describe in such glowing terms is mob rule.

Just look to spain, portugal, greece... etc. They've voted themselves largesse until their country is insolvent.

With that knowledge a wise person looks for a different course... and a lemming picks up speed toward the cliff.

At last! Pkrbum finally admits he believes the richest 1% should rule America --- he says that if we the people actually participate in government, it will be "MOB RULE."

How does your foot taste Mr. Pkrbum? LOL

1% can't rule by mob... and you apparently need a refresher on exactly what a republic is and how it functions.

24Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/14/2016, 5:02 pm

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:Without pointing out your revision and malleable terms... what you describe in such glowing terms is mob rule.

Just look to spain, portugal, greece... etc. They've voted themselves largesse until their country is insolvent.

With that knowledge a wise person looks for a different course... and a lemming picks up speed toward the cliff.

Your statement above was in response to FloridaTexan's statement:
"Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US."

The people she mentioned VOTED for socialism and won. How in hell do you interpret democracy -- a government where the people govern themselves through voting -- as mob rule?

The opposite of your "mob rule" by the way, is tyranny. Once again, how does your foot taste? LOL

25Trump v. Sanders Empty Re: Trump v. Sanders 2/14/2016, 6:41 pm

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Bernie as potus would speed the beginning of the end... and probably wind up with a wall being built anyway.

It would just be to keep people in... instead of out... lol. Just like east germany.

With a minimum wage of $15, free college and healthcare, a military funded for defense, we would have a burgeoning economy, better paying jobs through education, and literally no healthcare costs.

Feel free to leave, if you will.  I'm sure as hell staying!

EVEN YOU can't believe that nonsense.  

Trump v. Sanders 4541f6d1-5ba1-4d81-a403-9921e308d71e_zpscj0wxi2v

With assholes like you it's always about the money.  How in hell do you put a price tag on happiness, satisfaction and fairness?  There are numerous European countries that offer these benefits to their people and they are quite successful.  Ask someone from Sweden, Norway, Denmark, The Netherlands ...

Death to Amerika Inc. -- Corporate control of our government through corrupt campaign financing.

If we were as small and old as Denmark, we could probably prevent the commoners from experiencing freedom and liberty.

You misinterpret hopelessness and futility for success. As you know, the people of those countries are born into a specific class and know there is little they can do to improve their lot.

It is curious why you wish everyone to share misery.

Trump v. Sanders 814d49c6-9879-47ec-b626-b8887d1f087a_zpslebibqhz

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