Are these explusions fair?

boards of FL wrote:
We're talking about a group of football players, teammates, horsing around on the bus after a game.  Did you even read the article?

Is that how the victim characterized it? "Horsing around?"

Or is that how the perpetrators and their parents characterized it?

Salinsky wrote:I think were getting a pretty clear picture here of which posters were picked on daily when they were kids and have never been able to get over it.

Yeah, some friends and I were forced into plenty of fights in school from kids (white & black) who figured we belonged at the rez school rather than public.  And of course whenever taken to task they, their parents, and some teachers/coaches always liked to characterize it as "horseplay" or some such. Wasn't "horseplay" to us.   (Fortunately for me, being tall, stout, & a varsity linebacker meant I didn't get one-on-one'd as much as some of my friends.  Usually I would have to contend with three or four.)

You talk like the kid getting "pants'd" was a voluntary participant.   Well, apparently not since s/he complained about it.  

Would you have a different opinion if it were three or four white kids who involuntarily "pants'd" a black kid?  (remember .... it was 'Boards" initially brought up the issue of race, not me)

But really ..... it's all the same thing .... regardless of race or motivation.   It's bull-sh*t & the public schools shouldn't put up with it.

Salinsky wrote:I think were getting a pretty clear picture here of which posters were picked on daily when they were kids and have never been able to get over it.

Let's see that would mean those picked on deserved it ? Because ? Some asshole needed to get his jollies ?

Salinsky wrote:I didn't say anyone deserved anything.

My dad would've laughed at me, if I told him some mean kids "pantsed" me, and told me to take up for myself.

I wasn't a bully, but I guaran-damn-tee you, no one bullied me.

If this had anything to do with race, that's a pity in 2015.

My kid goes to a school that is 75% Hispanic, 10% white, 10% black, and 5% other, and I guaran-damn-tee you, no one's bullying him.

Well in 2015 why should any kid have to defend himself from a bully? Oh I do understand the bravado and machismo that goes with growing up as a boy but why is defending yourself still necessary ? Shouldn't all this diversity made us into one big happy family ? Also taking up for yourself now days might mean a jail term Nancy ......

I take a different approach than most of the folks on this thread. I do not dismiss the act, or I do not elevate the act. My question is how does this impact the education of these students and how will any action by the school lead to an improved educational environment for all students. There should be zero tolerance for bullying and harmful behavior, and there should be no bureaucratic easy button which automatically expels students without looking at the goal of a school to educate.

I think the most important part is a school board hearing with an independent hearing officer where the school district brings their evidence for an expulsion and the parents can question and bring witnesses. I have seen zero tolerance Kangaroo courts where a kid had a boy scout knife which he mistakenly left in his pocket and was expelled for the rest of the year because the board had passed a zero tolerance and that kid went to an alternative school which changed his life to the negative. Conversely, ad hoc rules with guns and knives are a formula for a disaster. My wife is a strong believer that boys in Junior high through high school are systematically broken down by over broad and unnecessary harsh punishments for boys being rowdy and non compliant. My brother was one of those kids who was out of control and full of energy....the school broke him down and failed their educational mission. He owns a construction firm which does 26 million a year largely because of those energy levels and drive, but often the damage done to him by the school administration can NOT be overcome by some males. I personally think that absent some specific factual allegations automatic expulsion for pulling pants down should not be a zero tolerance offense. I would prefer an independent hearing with the educational mission being first and foremost in the students facing expulsion, the student who was the target, and whether any action will improve the educational environment.....expulsions are the easy button for a failed educational administration.....they should rarely be used.

Bullying is certainly a psychological trauma that many people carry w/ them for the rest of their lives. I don't agree w/ any humiliating pranks being dismissed as horseplay but I'm not so sure expulsion is required. Some sort of punishment should be required. Recently a high school girl had superglue dumped on her hair and she would up having to get it cut off. I think that kid needs to be expelled. The school gave him 3 days detention and the girl's family put it on Facebook and the boy's family is now getting threats and being harassed.

boards of FL wrote:Are these expulsions fair?  If "pantsing" were an offense worthy of expulsion, nearly everyone would have been expelled at my high school and middle school.  

http://www.pnj.com/story/news/local/education/2015/10/16/escd-parents-fight-sons-expulsion/73948582/

Depends on what the parents of the victims were extorting the ECSD out of to get the charges pressed......

Can't read the article. I'm too cheap to pay PNJ for their articles. But expulsion? What happened to three day suspension?

boards of FL wrote:EmeraldGhost and TEO, here is a better question.  What if the students in question were white?  Still worthy of expulsion?

Here's one for you Boards...

What if the student, who was forcefully against his will stripped and left completely naked on the floor of the bus , being filmed and photographed was a special needs kid? What if, he was taken advantage of because of his disabilities?  

The dad of this special needs student stated his son was left in tears--humiliated, disgraced and embarrassed all because he seemed to be an easy target. Of course, according to the victim's dad it became even more humiliating  and embarrasing when the video "went viral" via the internet.

The act was an act of bullying a weaker student by a group of players that had all signed a required school morality/conduct document.

What if it was your child?

boards of FL wrote:Are these expulsions fair?  If "pantsing" were an offense worthy of expulsion, nearly everyone would have been expelled at my high school and middle school.  

http://www.pnj.com/story/news/local/education/2015/10/16/escd-parents-fight-sons-expulsion/73948582/

That would certainly explain a lot. You certainly were forced to attend two of the most perverted middle and high schools in the nation.

School yard bullying doesn't concern me so much. I was always the tallest kid in class so I was rarely bullied. Once in a while some SHORT kid would take a run at me. It was successful once. The next one didn't fare as well and I got in quite a bit of trouble. I was suspended, but certainly not expelled.

Social media concerns me far more. Just as participants here say things they would never have the stones to do in person, and considering how cruel kids can be in real life, they can be brutal.

One of the co-hosts on Fox's Outnumbered has three kids. In she and her husbands home, no electronics, TV, computers are allowed in any bedroom. All computers were in a common work area of the house. No smart phones are allowed at the dinner table either. Many parenting sites strongly encourage the same thing. Would probably be hard to convert to this unless this was the usual from day one.

boards of FL wrote: What if the students in question were white?  Still worthy of expulsion?

All you need to know to get an answer to that question is to know what political party the person is affiliated with.
If the person is a democrat then racism will never be an issue.
But if the person is not a democrat then he or she has to be a racist.  That should be pretty obvious to anyone.

Bob wrote:

boards of FL wrote: What if the students in question were white?  Still worthy of expulsion?

All you need to know to get an answer to that question is to know what political party the person is affiliated with.
If the person is a democrat then racism will never be an issue.
But if the person is not a democrat then he or she has to be a racist.  That should be pretty obvious to anyone.

Boards thinks this is typical behaviour....maybe it was for bullies. But to bully a kid with special needs is pretty damn low. Posting the pictures on line and including the video is criminal. Black or white.

This wasn't boys being boys.....one kid was targeted. It is called cruelty.

Joanimaroni wrote:

Bob wrote:

boards of FL wrote: What if the students in question were white?  Still worthy of expulsion?

All you need to know to get an answer to that question is to know what political party the person is affiliated with.
If the person is a democrat then racism will never be an issue.
But if the person is not a democrat then he or she has to be a racist.  That should be pretty obvious to anyone.

Boards thinks this is typical behaviour....maybe it was for bullies. But to bully a kid with special needs is pretty damn low. Posting the pictures on line and including the video is criminal. Black or white.

This wasn't boys being boys.....one kid was targeted.  It is called cruelty.

With BoardsofFL, one has ALWAYS to consider the source.

Boys have always been boys and girls have always been girls.

The age of Social Media has taken bullying to a new low, a quantum leap forward in depravity.

Joanimaroni wrote:

boards of FL wrote:EmeraldGhost and TEO, here is a better question.  What if the students in question were white?  Still worthy of expulsion?

Here's one for you Boards...

What if the student, who was forcefully against his will stripped and left completely naked on the floor of the bus , being filmed and photographed was a special needs kid? What if, he was taken advantage of because of his disabilities?  

The dad of this special needs student stated his son was left in tears--humiliated, disgraced and embarrassed all because he seemed to be an easy target. Of course, according to the victim's dad it became even more humiliating  and embarrasing when the video "went viral" via the internet.

The act was an act of bullying a weaker student by a group of players that had all signed a required school morality/conduct document.

What if it was your child?

If new information suggests that the event is as you described, then the expulsions would in fact be justified; however, it we're merely talking about a 'pantsing' indecent, which is what was first reported, then the expulsions would not be justified.

If the situation was in fact as you just described, that would transcend the word 'pantsing' and move into the territory of 'battery' or 'sexual assault' (or whatever the correct legal term would be).

boards of FL wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

boards of FL wrote:EmeraldGhost and TEO, here is a better question.  What if the students in question were white?  Still worthy of expulsion?

Here's one for you Boards...

What if the student, who was forcefully against his will stripped and left completely naked on the floor of the bus , being filmed and photographed was a special needs kid? What if, he was taken advantage of because of his disabilities?  

The dad of this special needs student stated his son was left in tears--humiliated, disgraced and embarrassed all because he seemed to be an easy target. Of course, according to the victim's dad it became even more humiliating  and embarrasing when the video "went viral" via the internet.

The act was an act of bullying a weaker student by a group of players that had all signed a required school morality/conduct document.

What if it was your child?

If new information suggests that the event is as you described, then the expulsions would in fact be justified; however, it we're merely talking about a 'pantsing' indecent, which is what was first reported, then the expulsions would not be justified.

If the situation was in fact as you just described, that would transcend the word 'pantsing' and move into the territory of 'battery' or 'sexual assault' (or whatever the correct legal term would be).

What I posted was from an interview with the special needs victim's dad. He saw the videos.

When originally reported it never stated students were pulling each others pants down....like in a group pantsing. ..one kid was targeted. That is bullying.