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So Sanders was a conscientious objector during Nam

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Markle
Wordslinger
knothead
Floridatexan
Sal
ZVUGKTUBM
2seaoat
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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Wordslinger wrote:

There are a lot of times when Teo and I agree, and a lot of times we don't.

I know that.  And I feel the same way.
The other "liberals" (for lack of a better term) on this board rarely ever agree with him about anything.

But then again you're also the only "liberal" (again for lack of a better term) on this board who is able to see what the Sanders phenomenon and the Trump phenomenon have in common.  You've been alluding to that since this Presidential campaign began.

You have the capacity to think outside the box.  A trait rarely seen anymore.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

By the way,  this is one of those times when teo and I are not in agreement...

https://pensacoladiscussion.forumotion.com/t21337-despite-recent-supreme-court-ruling-the-religious-continue-to-oppress-the-lgbt-community-under-god-s-authority

But I'm not posting to that thread.  I've learned that with some things teo believes, and especially when it involves the Bible,  it's an exercise in futility to challenge him on it so what's the point.   lol

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Bob wrote:By the way,  this is one of those times when teo and I are not in agreement...

https://pensacoladiscussion.forumotion.com/t21337-despite-recent-supreme-court-ruling-the-religious-continue-to-oppress-the-lgbt-community-under-god-s-authority

But I'm not posting to that thread.  I've learned that with some things teo believes,  and especially when it involves the Bible,  it's an exercise in futility to challenge him on it so what's the point.   lol

What mystifies me, is how Americans who want to replace our government with a Christian theocracy, think of themselves as good Americans. Freedom to believe whatever you want, or don't want is a tenet of being an American, and the theocrats want to change all that. Just as Islam wants everyone to go back to a 12th century lifestyle, American Christian fundamentalists want exactly the same thing! Doesn't that seem bizarre to you too?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Wordslinger wrote:

What mystifies me, is how Americans who want to replace our government with a Christian theocracy, think of themselves as good Americans.  Freedom to believe whatever you want, or don't want is a tenet of being an American, and the theocrats want to change all that.  Just as Islam wants everyone to go back to a 12th century lifestyle, American Christian fundamentalists want exactly the same thing!  Doesn't that seem bizarre to you too?

Yes it is VERY bizarre to me too.  And it's not only bizarre to me when teo believes that,  it's just as bizarre to me when seaoat is always an apologist for those muslim fucks.

Sal

Sal

Wordslinger wrote:
Bob wrote:By the way,  this is one of those times when teo and I are not in agreement...

https://pensacoladiscussion.forumotion.com/t21337-despite-recent-supreme-court-ruling-the-religious-continue-to-oppress-the-lgbt-community-under-god-s-authority

But I'm not posting to that thread.  I've learned that with some things teo believes,  and especially when it involves the Bible,  it's an exercise in futility to challenge him on it so what's the point.   lol

What mystifies me, is how Americans who want to replace our government with a Christian theocracy, think of themselves as good Americans.  Freedom to believe whatever you want, or don't want is a tenet of being an American, and the theocrats want to change all that.  Just as Islam wants everyone to go back to a 12th century lifestyle, American Christian fundamentalists want exactly the same thing!  Doesn't that seem bizarre to you too?

Exactly.

How do you think Teo would react if a Muslim clerk tried use their religion to deny him his Constitutional rights?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

There are plenty of examples throughout history of both christian and muslim theocracies. And I defy anyone reading this to tell me about a good one.

Jesus, we're all living in a nation which was founded by people who were escaping a particular kind of christian theocracy.
But I would be willing to wager that if you interviewed a hundred evangelical christians at random, very very few of them would even have a clue about that being our own history as a nation.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Bob wrote:There are plenty of examples throughout history of both christian and muslim theocracies.  And I defy anyone reading this to tell me about a good one.  

Jesus,  we're all living in a nation which was founded by people who were escaping a particular kind of christian theocracy.  
But I would be willing to wager that if you interviewed a hundred evangelical christians at random,  very very few of them would even have a clue about that being our own history as a nation.  

The problem's roots are embedded in the American history taught by approved textbooks dedicated to showing only the noble, gracious, just and generous things our nation has done. The dark side doesn't appear unless you read something like Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States, or Simon Girty Turncoat Hero, etc.

polecat

polecat

So Sanders was a conscientious objector during Nam - Page 2 Kenny%2Bprint

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Wordslinger wrote:

The problem's roots are embedded in the American history taught by approved textbooks dedicated to showing only the noble, gracious, just and generous things our nation has done.  The dark side doesn't appear unless you read something like Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States, or Simon Girty Turncoat Hero, etc.  

I don't really accept that as being an excuse.  My high school history class was taught by someone named "Mr Ezell" (I never heard his first name if he had one).
Mr. Ezell was a farmer from Brewton whose crops dried up.  Somehow he got a teaching certificate and he was then my "history teacher".
I'll describe "history class" to you this way,  and it wouldn't even benefit from any exaggeration because no exaggeration could do any justice to the truth of it.
Mr. Ezell came to history class in his farmer coveralls (no shit).  He would then say "read chapter 4,  class".  That would be in what had to be the most boring excuse for a book ever published.
Virtually the entire class would then lay their heads down on their hands and go off to sleep until the bell rang.  All the while,  Mr. Ezell was literally reading seed catalogs up at his desk.

I honestly thought "history class" was the same thing as what they called "detention".  And detention was where you sat doing nothing for an hour after school when you didn't obey the rules.
In other words,  I thought "history" must be some form of punishment.

That stayed with me for the next few years.  It was only when one day I visited the library for something (can't remember if it was the public library or the college library) that this all changed.
For the first time,  I discovered the library had all the past newspapers and periodicals on microfilm.
I began to read about the atomic bombing in newspapers and periodicals that were published immediately after it happened.
Same with Pearl Harbor.  
And then I really went back in time and read newspapers from even earlier in the century.  And that got me interested in learning history for the first time.  
I kept doing that occasionally all during my life up to the time the internet replaced the need for it.

I never read those books you referred to or any others like them.
I never had the attention span for full length books of any kind.  I was weaned on television (some of which you yourself wrote LOL) which requires no attention span.  And I've suffered with a benign degree of attention deficit disorder my whole life which didn't help matters either.

But that's not to say I haven't been a voracious reader all my life.  Because that's what I have been.  It's just that I've never read full length books,  and instead I've always read dozens of  different bits and pieces of writing  coming from dozens of different writers in the space of time others have devoted to reading one full length book by one writer.  And that includes both fiction and non-fiction and to be honest,  sometimes it's pretty difficult to distinguish between the two.  lol

BUT,  with all that reading,  I have learned how history has been written to suit the author.  No different than how current events is being written now to suit whoever that author is too.
And I have learned about all the warts and blemishes that were covered up in the textbooks.
So I really have no sympathy for those who stay ignorant about our history.  As I said,  whatever they got "taught" in school is no excuse to me.  I didn't get taught anything about history in school either.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

If there is one quintessential example of how our history has been edited,  wordslinger,  it's the one I never learned about either from schools or from my visits to the libraries.
That's because it was so covered up that it required the advent of the internet to have it uncovered up for me.

When I first heard about it,  I was shocked that it took so long for me to learn that an American who worked his way up to become the highest rank in the Marine Corp at the time (Major General),  and who was the most decorated Marine in history at the time of his death,  and who is one of only two Marines who have ever received two Medals of Honor for two separate actions;  was also the same American who wrote "War Is A Racket".

After I heard about that,  you coulda knocked me over with a feather.  Because I was literally stunned by it.  
And my next thought was to hate that Ezell character even more.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Bob wrote:If there is one quintessential example of how our history has been edited,  wordslinger,  it's the one I never learned about either from schools or from my visits to the libraries.
That's because it was so covered up that it required the advent of the internet to have it uncovered up for me.

When I first heard about it,  I was shocked that it took so long for me to learn that an American who worked his way up to become the highest rank in the Marine Corp at the time (Major General),  and who was the most decorated Marine in history at the time of his death,  and who is one of only two Marines who have ever received two Medals of Honor for two separate actions;  was also the same American who wrote "War Is A Racket".

After I heard about that,  you coulda knocked me over with a feather.  Because I was literally stunned by it.  
And my next thought was to hate that Ezell character even more.

That would have been Smedly Butler ... I think. He was right, of course. Obamasucks, a.k.a. war hero, always refers to Chesty Puller. But Butler was more decorated and more heroic than Puller. War Hero probably hates him because he knew war is indeed a racket. That's something War Hero would never admit.

Look, books are just long magazine articles. You have a good, curious mind. Read Howard Zinn's book -- it will widen your perspective of America's real history.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Wordslinger wrote:

Look, books are just long magazine articles.  

hahahaha. I've never heard it put like that before. I love it. lol
And that's coming from a professional writer who's authored both books and television scripts.
I love this social media thingie. Where else would I get to talk to somebody with your background?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Actually, after I'd gone 63 years without reading a novel and getting the novels only from movie adaptations,  I finally decided to read my first one three years ago.
It was mainly because Cormac McCarthy's first novel is considered by most to be his best work.  

In the entire range of American literature, only Moby-Dick bears comparison to Blood Meridian. Both are epic in scope, cosmically resonant, obsessed with open space and with language, exploring vast uncharted distances with a fanatically patient minuteness. Both manifest a sublime visionary power that is matched only by still more ferocious irony. Both savagely explode the American dream of manifest destiny (sic) of racial domination and endless imperial expansion. But if anything, McCarthy writes with a yet more terrible clarity than does Melville.


—Steven Shaviro, "A Reading of Blood Meridian"

And then I learned that respected film directors have failed in the attempts to adapt it to a movie.  And that even included Stanley Kubrick and Marlon Brando,  both working with a young Johnny Depp.  Most saying "it was just too damn hard to pull off".
So it seemed likely the one fictional story I wanted to know most,  would have to be read.

So I broke down and downloaded it in digital form.  And then shortly after that I knew I was going to be taking a long plane ride to Honolulu so I planned to consume the book on that trip.
Sure enough,  on the trip over,  I finished about half the novel with every intention of finishing it on the way back.  Fact is it blew my mind.  I'd never experienced anything like the language in it.  Never been anything like that in any movie.  It's almost a surreal experience to read it.

To make the rest of the story short,  I still have not gotten beyond the first half.  As much as I enjoyed that first half and wanted to know where the story was going after that,  my mind wandered off in other directions for the next 3 years.  Maybe someday I'll get it back out again.

So finishing that will be the next book I read if it even happens.  I hope so.  lol

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Bob wrote:Actually,  after I'd gone 63 years without reading a novel and getting the novels only from movie adaptations,  I finally decided to read my first one three years ago.
It was mainly because Cormac McCarthy's first novel is considered by most to be his best work.  

In the entire range of American literature, only Moby-Dick bears comparison to Blood Meridian. Both are epic in scope, cosmically resonant, obsessed with open space and with language, exploring vast uncharted distances with a fanatically patient minuteness. Both manifest a sublime visionary power that is matched only by still more ferocious irony. Both savagely explode the American dream of manifest destiny (sic) of racial domination and endless imperial expansion. But if anything, McCarthy writes with a yet more terrible clarity than does Melville.


—Steven Shaviro, "A Reading of Blood Meridian"

And then I learned that respected film directors have failed in the attempts to adapt it to a movie.  And that even included Stanley Kubrick and Marlon Brando,  both working with a young Johnny Depp.  Most saying "it was just too damn hard to pull off".
So it seemed likely the one fictional story I wanted to know most,  would have to be read.

So I broke down and downloaded it in digital form.  And then shortly after that I knew I was going to be taking a long plane ride to Honolulu so I planned to consume the book on that trip.
Sure enough,  on the trip over,  I finished about half the novel with every intention of finishing it on the way back.  Fact is it blew my mind.  I'd never experienced anything like the language in it.  Never been anything like that in any movie.  It's almost a surreal experience to read it.

To make the rest of the story short,  I still have not gotten beyond the first half.  As much as I enjoyed that first half and wanted to know where the story was going after that,  my mind wandered off in other directions for the next 3 years.  Maybe someday I'll get it back out again.

So finishing that will be the next book I read if it even happens.  I hope so.  lol

Because of my work, I spend a considerable part of my life at reading historical records and books.  I also manage to read a novel or science fiction, or whatever, every two weeks.  Your remark about Cormac McCarthy's skill with language was beautifully profound.  The truth is Bob, that reading widens one's perspectives and provides the foundation for critical analysis and thinking.  All writers and thinkers must read.

Back in the mid 60s I had a college professor of a TV writing class who said:  "Writing is the act of transferring a thought in your head, by means of the written word, into the heads of myriads of readers, or viewers."  

He was absolutely right Bob, and that's real power.  Turn off the TV and read kid.  Let your mind do the walking.  You'll love it.

Guest


Guest

Wordslinger wrote:

 Turn off the TV and read kid.  Let your mind do the walking.  You'll love it. [/b]

Excellent advice to everyone! cheers

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