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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Kasich - the GOP candidate who appears to be the least crazy - does not believe climate science

Kasich - the GOP candidate who appears to be the least crazy - does not believe climate science

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ZVUGKTUBM
2seaoat
Sal
Hospital Bob
boards of FL
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boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Boards is as religious about science as Markle and (name de jour poster) Obamasucks.  Both sit on unwavering edges with no amount of ability to meet in the middle ON THINGS THIS COUNTRY NEEDS because of their belief.




This is possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on the internet.

My views change with new information.  If new information were to come to light tomorrow that were to show me that I have been wrong about something, I would change my views on that thing.  

This is the exact opposite of religion, and religious people.  Religious views do not change.  There is no amount of new information that can be provided to a religious person such that they will change their mind.

You will not vote for someone who does not believe in scientific fact.

Will you waver from that?  



That depends upon my options and the policies that are being offered.

I will say this, however; if a politician states that he or she does not 'believe' in a fact that is well established by science and empirical observation, that would definitely be a negative mark in my mind as it would cause me to question their judgment.

There is nothing extreme or "religious" about expecting politicians to acknowledge well established facts, and it's amazing that we even have to have this conversation at all.


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ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

2seaoat wrote:Science being compared to religion is a false equivalency.  One requires faith and the other requires verifiable facts. Science is not a religion.

Yes, but until the year 1492, there was a 97% consensus among scientists of the day that this would happen if you sailed too far from Europe:

Kasich - the GOP candidate who appears to be the least crazy - does not believe climate science - Page 2 Flat-earth-society1

Those scientist were connected to the church (religious zealots) and if you differed with them, you likely ended up on the breaking wheel:

Kasich - the GOP candidate who appears to be the least crazy - does not believe climate science - Page 2 Most-disturbing-torture-methods-ever-invented1000592547-may-28-2014-1-600x450

Luckily, today, they only castigate you and call you a "Denier."

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Guest


Guest

If Kasich wavers on climate change to appeal to the non-climate change voters then he is like all the other politicians.

But I won't cast him aside as a contender for President based on his acting like all other politicians.

Is there one out there that does not go with the flow to suit the voter?

If so they won't be sitting in the Oval Office.



Guest


Guest

boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Boards is as religious about science as Markle and (name de jour poster) Obamasucks.  Both sit on unwavering edges with no amount of ability to meet in the middle ON THINGS THIS COUNTRY NEEDS because of their belief.




This is possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on the internet.

My views change with new information.  If new information were to come to light tomorrow that were to show me that I have been wrong about something, I would change my views on that thing.  

This is the exact opposite of religion, and religious people.  Religious views do not change.  There is no amount of new information that can be provided to a religious person such that they will change their mind.

You will not vote for someone who does not believe in scientific fact.

Will you waver from that?  



That depends upon my options and the policies that are being offered.

I will say this, however;  if a politician states that he or she does not 'believe' in a fact that is well established by science and empirical observation, that would definitely be a negative mark in my mind as it would cause me to question their judgment.

There is nothing extreme or "religious" about expecting politicians to acknowledge well established facts, and it's amazing that we even have to have this conversation at all.

I agree.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

If the climate change arguments have done anything, they have opened the way for energy beyond fossil fuels. You are hearing this from a dude who has investments in oil and gas.

I won't buy the hysterical arguments about near-term climate change tipping points. I will buy into arguments that the move to energy forms beyond oil, gas, and coal are unstoppable, and they should be invested in and promoted.

Advanced nuclear technologies, cold fusion, tritium reactors, enhanced geothermal technologies, and the mother of them all, solar, will see their day. And when that day arrives, the world's remaining oil reserves will be just about used up. We just cannot afford to shut that industry down prematurely and without forethought.

Energy from the electromagnetic spectrum is what will eventually morph into what we now call dilithium crystals in our fiction. Warp speed space travel comes after that.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

boards of FL wrote:[



He's basically ignoring climate science when he interviews on TV and then has his campaign release retractions later.

We would be better off with a leader who could simply speak openly about the science rather than one who first appeases the ignorant and later issues retractions for everyone else.

You remember when we caught Obama telling Medvedev:  “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved, but it’s important for him (Putin) to give me space,”.  “After my election, I have more flexibility.”

Any President has two roles.  His public face.  And the one hidden from the public.  
Kasich is subject to the same thing.  Except in his case,  in order to be able to accomplish anything,  he first has to get elected.  And before that,  he has to get nominated BY REPUBLICANS.
Get it.
I hope so,  because no Presidential candidate is immune to this.
If Bernie Sanders was to actually get the democratic nomination,  do you honestly believe Bernie Sanders is going to be the same Bernie Sanders in the general election campaign that he is during the nomination process?
If he is,  then he doesn't give a shit about being elected President.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

But of course that's also what is so remarkable (and even historic really) about the Donald Trump phenomenon.

So far Trump IS somehow immune to,  not only that,  but just about every other convention in Presidential politics.  
Including his pronouncement that he doesn't give the political party top priority EVEN THOUGH he himself is representing that party.  
Who ever hearda such a thing.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Bob wrote:
boards of FL wrote:[



He's basically ignoring climate science when he interviews on TV and then has his campaign release retractions later.

We would be better off with a leader who could simply speak openly about the science rather than one who first appeases the ignorant and later issues retractions for everyone else.

You remember when we caught Obama telling Medvedev:  “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved, but it’s important for him (Putin) to give me space,”.  “After my election, I have more flexibility.”

Any President has two roles.  His public face.  And the one hidden from the public.  
Kasich is subject to the same thing.  Except in his case,  in order to be able to accomplish anything,  he first has to get elected.  And before that,  he has to get nominated BY REPUBLICANS.
Get it.
I hope so,  because no Presidential candidate is immune to this.
If Bernie Sanders was to actually get the democratic nomination,  do you honestly believe Bernie Sanders is going to be the same Bernie Sanders in the general election campaign that he is during the nomination process?
If he is,  then he doesn't give a shit about being elected President.



Every politician has taken part in telling people what they want to hear in order to get elected, but a line has to be drawn at some point. Every scientific organization on the planet agrees that anthropogenic climate change is real. If we can't draw the line there, where can we draw it? Further, I wouldn't say that Kasich was simply telling his voters what they want to hear. He was telling his donors what they want to hear. The vast majority of Americans believe that climate change is real.


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2seaoat



do you honestly believe Bernie Sanders is going to be the same Bernie Sanders in the general election campaign that he is during the nomination process?
If he is,  then he doesn't give a shit about being elected President.

He will be the same.  He can easily be elected President.  His message is truthful.

Sal

Sal

Remember when that one guy ran for President who claimed to be a compassionate conservative, and everybody wanted to have a beer with him?

Yeah, me neither.

Sal

Sal

2seaoat wrote:
He will be the same.  He can easily be elected President.  His message is truthful.

Bernie has been delivering the same message for decades.

He's not gonna change for some focus group.

2seaoat



I have listened to lunch with Bernie for four years on the Thom Hartman radio show and he has not changed his message.  His message is powerful and truthful.  I could vote for him although I think he is tremendously naive on some issues.  He could win America in a landslide if people listen to his message and go beyond labels.  He is an honest man who cares about Americans......very refreshing that he has little ego and actually talks policy.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:
2seaoat wrote:
He will be the same.  He can easily be elected President.  His message is truthful.

Bernie has been delivering the same message for decades.

He's not gonna change for some focus group.

Well first of all,  the voting booths used in the primaries are not owned and operated by Frank Luntz thank god.  So those so-called "focus groups" are irrelevant.  

Bernie has been delivering the same message for decades because Bernie has had to face only the voters in Vermont.
And in the current campaign,  he's only having to face democrat voters.

That all changes after the nomination.  Then he has to face the red voters as well as the blue voters.  
Now it's true there already is some crossover vote for him (revealed by the polls at least).  But he's getting that mainly for the same reason Trump is getting his support.  Because a great many of the voters in both parties are sick and tired of the existing politics.

BUT,  that little bit of crossover vote is not going to carry the general election for him and he knows it (because he's smart).  And I don't think he's in this just to "send a message".  I think he's in it to win (even though he knows how difficult and unlikely that will be).

So,  let's make a little bet on it.  I'll wager a meal at David's Catfish House that he moves visibly toward the right for the general election campaign.
Do I have any takers.



Last edited by Bob on 8/10/2015, 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Oh hell, make it McGuires or Jacksons or Jerry's Drive-In or The Coffee Cup or the Five Sisters or Peglegs or wherever you choose to go.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Actually I prefer the Picadilly Cafeteria. I'm now at that age you know.

Sal

Sal

I'd be glad to take that bet, should he win the nomination.

But, he won't.

That "democratic socialist" label will a bridge too far for many voters.

He and Trump couldn't be any more dissimilar in style, substance, and in the reason they're getting some traction.

Trump is getting his from seething resentment.

Bernie is getting his because he lays out specific policy prescriptions, and they make sense.

2seaoat



The bet cannot objectively be defined, or resolved.  Bernie will say what he has always said, and I will tell you plenty of Red State voters understand exploitation and a rigged system.  He will talk about military cuts in red states.  He will talk about expanding social security benefits in red states.  He will have supporters all over this country.  I am thinking about leaving Saturday night to do some repairs on a house in Milton and return by thursday, but then I would no longer be a ghost, so I will pass on that dinner you would owe me.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

"It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who count the votes." (Joseph Stalin)

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:

He and Trump couldn't be any more dissimilar in style, substance, and in the reason they're getting some traction.

Trump is getting his from seething resentment.

Bernie is getting his because he lays out specific policy prescriptions, and they make sense.

You have to believe that because you're too biased to judge it fairly, Sal.
That's the reason he appeals to YOU.

But all the voters in those polls are not as astute and intelligent as you are (and yes I know it's hard for you to accept that about democrats).
They're sick of the idea of Hillary. For a lot of them, the vote in those polls is a vote against Hillary and the status quo, not a vote for Sanders' policies.

Sal

Sal

Back to Kasich -

The most telling quote of his from the debate was when he said he left Congress to found out how business works in the real world.

He left Congress to work for FAUX News and Lehman Brothers.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

And boy I know about that casting a vote against shit instead of for it.
I've been doing that in every election for the past I don't know how many years now.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Where is it written that you have to be a ghost, seaoat? Is that in some book of the Bible because I've never heard of that rule.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Bob wrote:Where is it written that you have to be a ghost,  seaoat?  Is that in some book of the Bible because I've never heard of that rule.


Bob once you meet the Buddha you may no longer stand in awe.....

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:

You have to believe that because you're too biased to judge it fairly,  Sal.
That's the reason he appeals to YOU.  

But all the voters in those polls are not as astute and intelligent as you are (and yes I know it's hard for you to accept that about democrats).  
They're sick of the idea of Hillary.  For a lot of them,  the vote in those polls is a vote against Hillary and the status quo,  not a vote for Sanders' policies.

That's objectively wrong.

People were clamoring for Elizabeth Warren to run because of the message she delivers and the policies she advocates.

When she declined, they were hugely disappointed.

Then Bernie decided to run with the same populist agenda, and people naturally gravitated to him.

Trump, on the other hand, has offered no specific policy prescriptions at all, and instead is running on nothing more than bombast and attitude.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I'll tell you what's one of the most entertaining and interesting things you can have happen.

It's after finally getting to know people the cyberspace way like we do here, that you finally get to see what they look like for the first time.

I first experienced it with talk radio (the precursor to what we're doing here now).
But the difference there was, we knew each other by only voices.
Whereas here, we know each other only through written language.
I vividly remember going to a gathering of regular callers whose voices I had listened to for years. Pretty fucking fun.

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