Yomama wrote: Rogue wrote:
You dont pay attention sir. I said my second post. and I as well as you would not encourage one way or the other as I have said. I do think people should know all the information though. Im going topost the information again. and I suggest anyone who has conrnerns about the vaccine ask your doctor if he took it and see if you get a sincere answer. My doctor flat out told me he didint. matter of a fact I can saftly say that about 90% of the doctors I ask, say they dont take it. That in itself should be a eye opener. or maybe not.
Here's the actual article I was refering to ghost. and like I said before, whats the differnce between elderly and small hcilds immune system?
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November 28, 2011 — The annual flu vaccine can weaken children's resistance to other types of influenza virus, including those that could cause a pandemic, according to a study published in the November issue of the Journal of Virology.
"Annual vaccination against influenza is effective but may have potential drawbacks that have previously been underappreciated and that are also a matter of debate," write lead author Rogier Bodewes, DVM, from Erasmus Medical Center in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, and coauthors.
They don't suggest that annual childhood vaccinations should be halted, but they call for research into better vaccines that eliminate this adverse effect.
To study the effects of seasonal immunization, the researchers collected blood samples from 27 healthy unvaccinated children (median age, 6.0 years; range, 2.0 to 8. and 14 children with cystic fibrosis who had received annual influenza vaccinations (median age, 6.2 years; range, 3.1 to 9.0). In the Netherlands, only special populations of children, such as those with cystic fibrosis, are routinely vaccinated against influenza.
Of the unvaccinated children, 24 of 27 (89%) had antibodies against at least 1 A/H3N2 virus, and 20 (74%) had antibodies against at least 1 A/H1N1 virus. All vaccinated children had antibodies against at least 1 influenza virus, including A/H1N1(2009). However, unvaccinated children had significantly higher geometric mean titers for several viruses, including the influenza A/Panama/07/99 (H3N2) and A/Solomon Islands/3/2006 (H1N1) viruses (P = .04 and P = .01, respectively).
They found that the percentage of virus-specific ICD8+ T cells — that is, T cells with a memory for influenza viruses — ranged from 0.00% to 2.32% in unvaccinated children and from 0.06% to 1.56% in vaccinated children.
They noted an age-dependent increase in the virus-specific CD8+ T cell response in the unvaccinated children (P = .040), but not in the vaccinated children (P = .714).
Finally, in children older than 5 years, the investigators found a significantly higher percentage (P = .038) of CD8+ T cells in the unvaccinated group (mean, 0.86%; standard deviation [SD], 0.67%) than in the vaccinated group (mean, 0.37%; SD, 0.45%).
The study results are consistent with the team's previous mouse experiments. In those studies, Dr. Bodewes and colleagues found that vaccination against the seasonal influenza A virus prevented the development of influenza A virus-specific CD8+ T cell immunity, which would otherwise be induced by infection.
During the 2009 pandemic, Canadian children who had been vaccinated against the seasonal flu were more likely to be infected with A/H1N1 than those who had not been vaccinated. (These results were not confirmed by studies in other countries.)
It is a small study, so the results have to be taken with a grain of salt, Christopher Harrison, MD, director of the Infectious Disease Research Laboratory at Children's Mercy Hospitals and Clinics in Kansas City, Missouri, who was not involved with the study, told Medscape Medical News. But, he said, it lends weight to the argument that children should be immunized with the live virus instead of the killed virus.<<<<WTH?????
"We have known for a long time that most vaccines given in the muscle don't produce the ideal response," said Dr. Harrison.
Killing the virus changes key proteins, which immune cells must recognize to prepare for another influenza infection, he explained. In addition to probably providing better protection against unexpected flu viruses, immunization with the live virus is 10% to 15% more effective than immunization with the killed virus against the seasonal flu, he added.
But Walter Orenstein, MD, a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Infectious Diseases, said there isn't enough evidence yet to make changes in the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for vaccinations, which explicitly state no preference for live or killed vaccines.
This study only shows a difference in biomarkers for immunity, not in immunity itself, Dr. Orenstein emphasized. "We have to look at the actual disease," he said. "Do people who get repeated vaccination have as much disease as people who don't? That's the ultimate question."
The study was supported in part by TI Pharma. The study authors and Dr. Orenstein have disclosed no relevant financial relationships. Dr. Harrison reports receiving research support from GlaxoSmithKline.
Journal of Virology. 2011;85:11995-12000. Abstract
I get all kinds of stuff by e-mail and a lot of it is a hoax where supposedly reputable people are quoted. Do you have a link to the story?
I have taken statistics and a study of 27 individuals is way too small a sample group to draw any reliable conclusions. You need thousands of participants for a study to be reliable.
yomamma, this is from Medscape. You may have ot be a member to read it as I am. These come into my work email. Ill post the link, maybe it will work. if not you should be able to look up the Journal of virology, issue date at the end of the article.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/769724?src=mp
Here;s more on it as this is recent. its long and I dont have time to read it all now.
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From CDC Expert Commentary
Child Deaths From Influenza
An Expert Interview With CDC's Georgina Peacock, MD
Laurie Scudder, DNP, PNP; Georgina Peacock, MD, MPH
Authors and Disclosures
Posted: 08/29/2012
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Editor's Note:
The 2009 influenza A (H1N1) pandemic disproportionately affected children, resulting in a 5-fold increase in deaths compared with more typical flu seasons. A study just published in the journal Pediatrics provides the first detailed description of the children most affected.[1] The study focused on children with neurologic and neurodevelopmental disorders and found that this population has a disproportionately higher risk of dying from flu-related causes than other children. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is partnering with the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), Families Fighting Flu, and Family Voices to reach out to caregivers -- both clinicians and parents -- of children with neurologic and neurodevelopmental disorders to protect them against flu. Medscape spoke with Georgina Peacock, MD, MPH, one of the authors of this study, about the study findings, the implications for clinicians, and CDC's efforts to increase vaccination rates and the use of antiviral medications in children with neurologic and neurodevelopmental disorders.
Medscape: Dr. Peacock, could you briefly describe the methodology for your recent study?
Dr. Peacock: The CDC has been collecting information on influenza-associated pediatric deaths since 2004. This study gathered information from state and local health departments that submitted data about 2009 H1N1 influenza-related pediatric deaths to CDC. The CDC analyzed patient demographics, date and location of death, and length of hospital stay, as well as laboratory tests, including bacterial culture, and other information from these pediatric death reporting forms.
Medscape: What were the key findings regarding pediatric deaths in children with neurologic disorders? Why are these children more likely to have complications from influenza than other children?
Dr. Peacock: Children with neurologic disorders are at higher risk of dying from flu-related causes than other children. More specifically, we looked at 343 pediatric deaths that were associated with 2009 H1N1 influenza for which we had medical information. Of these, 336 children had an underlying medical condition. And when we looked in more detail, in about two thirds of those children, that underlying medical condition was a neurologic disorder. The most common of the underlying conditions were neurodevelopmental disorders like cerebral palsy, moderate to severe developmental delay (intellectual disability), and hydrocephalus. The second most common underlying condition was epilepsy.
There are different theories about why these children have more complications from influenza. Many of these children have associated medical conditions. When we looked at the children with underlying conditions, about 70% of them had more than 1 high-risk condition. That is telling us that these are children who have complicated medical histories.
There are some studies that speculate that the children with neurologic conditions may have impaired lung function, or they may have more difficultly coughing, and coughing is one way we prevent pneumonia. Some of the children have scoliosis, which again may make it harder to cough and clear your airway. Some of those children also had a reported pulmonary condition on their death reporting form, but not all of them. It leads us to speculate that maybe there is an impairment in their ability to cough or clear their airway. But is that also impairing their ability to fight off the influenza infection?
Less frequently, we saw children with secondary risk factors that included congenital heart disease, chromosomal abnormalities, and metabolic disorders, like mitochondrial disorders.
Medscape: Although the vaccine used prior to the 2009 flu season did not cover H1N1, there were immediate efforts to both develop and distribute an appropriate vaccine. Can you describe the impact of vaccination on morbidity and mortality in your study?
Dr. Peacock: This group of children had a fairly low influenza vaccination rate. When we looked at the death reporting forms, we noted that about 23% of the children had received the seasonal flu vaccine and about 3% had received the H1N1 vaccine. Part of the issue was that a number of these deaths occurred before there was even an H1N1 vaccine available. A limitation in our ability to draw conclusions from the data is that we are reviewing a pediatric death report form, not going back and looking at medical records. It is possible that there was a higher rate of influenza vaccination, but these are the rates we were able to calculate.
Although this study looked at pediatric deaths during the H1N1 pandemic, we know that children with neurologic conditions are also at greater risk for complications and deaths from flu during regular influenza seasons. Influenza vaccination is important and we need to increase this vaccination rate, particularly among children who are at high risk for influenza. I think we have a lot of work to do. Part of what we are doing this fall at the CDC is partnering with the AAP, Families Fighting Flu, and Family Voices to really push and encourage vaccination among this group of children, both by talking with healthcare providers about the importance of vaccination of this high-risk group, as well as talking to parents about the importance of making sure they are protecting their children from influenza, because their children are at high risk.
Medscape: CDC and AAP both recommend that children over the age of 6 months receive an annual influenza vaccine. As you have noted, vaccine uptake is suboptimal. That is also the case for antiviral use. How will CDC's partnership with AAP and flu advocacy groups help address these issues?
Dr. Peacock: With the AAP, our plans are to do some communications with members -- particularly with subspecialists who care for children with neurologic conditions -- through letters that are signed both by the AAP and the CDC to encourage them to talk to the parents of their patients about vaccinations. The issue is that most of these subspecialists are not going to give vaccinations. However, they are important health messengers for this information. If the neurologist or developmentalist is talking to the family about vaccinations, we think that will encourage parents to talk with their pediatric primary care provider about getting vaccinated and put that higher on the list.
We also are doing some continuing education webinars for healthcare providers.
On the parent's side, we've been working with Family Voices to conduct focus groups looking at what parents already know about flu and vaccinations. What we have found is that we have a lot of work to do to educate parents about what influenza is and to emphasize that influenza is different from having a cold. It is really important for parents to understand when we are in flu season that, if their child is exhibiting signs of an influenza-like illness, they need to seek care from their pediatric provider and begin antiviral drug treatment if indicated. We also must continually reinforce the importance of a prevention strategy that includes their child getting vaccinated.
Medscape: Could you speak a bit more about the antiviral component of this campaign? Although you have noted the importance of reaching neurologists and developmentalists to enlist them to encourage families to be vaccinated, will they be part of the campaign's effort to optimize antiviral use? Or is that effort focused on primary care providers?
Dr. Peacock: I think it's important that we are including those medical home providers, those primary care providers, in the discussion about encouraging antiviral use. The subspecialists can back that up and, when they are talking to parents, encourage them to talk to their child's primary care provider if the child is having flu-like symptoms. It is important to get antiviral treatment early. But clearly the pediatricians, the family practitioners, those people on the frontline in the medical home are the ones who are going to be pushing that early antiviral treatment, which is really important in these kids. I think that we have a long way to go in regard to antiviral treatment.
The other important message that came out during the pandemic is that rapid influenza testing does not always identify everybody that has influenza. A negative rapid flu test does not mean the child should not start antiviral treatment if the clinician thinks that they have influenza. That is another message that the CDC has been trying hard to get out to the practitioners.
Medscape: What are the most important take-home messages for clinicians as well as the parents of these high-risk children?
Dr. Peacock: First, children need to be vaccinated every year against influenza. Then, if the child is having flu-like symptoms, they should talk to their primary care clinician and get on antiviral treatment as soon as possible if it is recommended.
Medscape: Can you speak briefly about the current swine flu increase?
Dr. Peacock: We are currently monitoring this new strain of influenza called H3N2v, and the prevention messages around this outbreak are really important. Children with high-risk conditions, like neurologic disorders, need to wash their hands, not eat food in areas where animals are kept, and should avoid exposure to pigs and swine barns. Many of the children who have been infected with H3N2v have spent time in these settings.
It is important to get vaccinated against the seasonal flu. However, the current flu vaccine won't protect against the H3N2v strain, so that's why those preventive methods are really important, and obviously any child who has a neurologic disorder who has been around pigs and is exhibiting signs of flu needs to talk to their pediatric provider as soon as possible. The recommendation right now is that if you have a high-risk condition and are having flu-like symptoms and have had contact with a pig, to be evaluated by your provider and begin antiviral treatment if indicated.
References
More on This Topic
■Influenza News & Perspectives
■Immunization News & Perspectives
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and 14 children with cystic fibrosis who had received annual influenza vaccinations (median age, 6.2 years; range, 3.1 to 9.0). In the Netherlands, only special populations of children, such as those with cystic fibrosis, are routinely vaccinated against influenza.
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