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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war

New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war

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2seaoat
KarlRove
TEOTWAWKI
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KarlRove

KarlRove

I don't think FDR goaded Japan into fighting. I do think that cutting off some of the oil and scrap metal sales didnt help relations at all. Plus, when we did get into the war itself, the Casablanca Conference stipulated that
Pursuit of the war would be a Europe first matter and the
Opening of a second front to help the Russians. This got the ball rolling on Operation Torch and the
Invasion of Italy which bogged down a lot of the Wehrmacht. We did have an "air" second front with the Combined Bomber Offensive which took most of 1942
To get set up and operating properly. We did high altitude precision daylight bombing and the Brits focused on night area bombing which devestated most of Europe and especially Germany with the use of incendiary and HE bombs to create firestorms. The Brits had that down to a science.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Ford and Lindbergh were right...the wars were none of our business...the war was old tribal feuds...we lost Americans fighting to make bankers richer....and we keep doing that over and over and over.....

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Damaged Eagle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:

A war with Germany which if we go by the liberal standards was illegal for both WWI and WWII.

Liberal standards: They didn't attack us first therefore the war is illegal.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

Smile


"They didn't attack us first therefore the war is illegal,"  you wrote above.

Wrong.  Japan did attack us first, and Germany declared war on us a day or two later.

Smile on those facts ...

New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXNuLziCRuHvBAxXWo4ycmjmT9Ho7xXKiT4eAuLlsEKSUSwK30

If we're going by liberal standards just because Japan attacked us it did not give us the right to attack Germany.

Learn to read and comprehend.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fNY0JuATpQ

Smile

Yes -- learning to read and comprehend are important qualities -- too bad you are unable to grasp them. ..."Japan attacked us it did not give us the right to attack Germany," you wrote, no doubt while stoned.

Once again, Germany declared war on America, not vice versa! Are you saying we shouldn't have fought back? LOL

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Ford and Lindbergh were right...the wars were none of our business...the war was old tribal feuds...we lost Americans fighting to make bankers richer....and we keep doing that over and over and over.....


WWII was not a fight of "old tribal feuds." It was Fascist Italy's, Nazi Germany's and the Empire of Japan's attempt to conquer and rule the world -- including the U.S. --that we fought against.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Ford and Lindbergh were right...the wars were none of our business...the war was old tribal feuds...we lost Americans fighting to make bankers richer....and we keep doing that over and over and over.....

The over-riding issue driving all wars and conflicts of the 20th Century was the push toward a world government, controlled by international finance. The same over-riding factor drives the forces at work in the 21st Century as well.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

2seaoat



Seaoat, the Tuchman books are excellent.

I think if more people would just read, they really would have a better understanding of the world we live. She did a great job with General Stilwell, and it is through Stilwell's eyes that I attained greater wisdom on how the Chinese approach foreign affairs, and better understood the historical framework of the Viet Nam war. As Americans we hardly make a scratch on learning other people's language and I was intrigued at the efforts the General made to learn Chinese. We have been blessed with intelligent leadership in our military and government. It makes a difference.

Sal

Sal

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:Ford and Lindbergh were right...the wars were none of our business...the war was old tribal feuds...we lost Americans fighting to make bankers richer....and we keep doing that over and over and over.....

The over-riding issue driving all wars and conflicts of the 20th Century was the push toward a world government, controlled by international finance. The same over-riding factor drives the forces at work in the 21st Century as well.

You should head over to the General Discussion forum and lend Teo a hand with his "conspiracy theorists” thread.

His conspiracy theory has fallen down and can't get up.

lol

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:Seaoat, the Tuchman books are excellent.

I think if more people would just read, they really would have a better understanding of the world we live.   She did a great job with General Stilwell, and it is through Stilwell's eyes that I attained greater wisdom on how the Chinese approach foreign affairs, and better understood the historical framework of the Viet Nam war.  As Americans we hardly make a scratch on learning other people's language and I was intrigued at the efforts the General made to learn Chinese.   We have been blessed with intelligent leadership in our military and government.  It makes a difference.

Before I knew better, I trusted people and loaned two of her books.  They are not on my shelf now.  Imagine that!  But hopefully the reader (thief) is better informed.  Razz   Thanks for the reminder.  I'm heading to Amazon to order.  Have you read the one on Israel?  Very interesting.  Also the Zimmerman Telegram...never knew about it before her book.  But then I wasn't that interested in high school history.  It was turned on for me by a college professor in North Alabama.  Excellent professor.

Guest


Guest

Wordslinger wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:

A war with Germany which if we go by the liberal standards was illegal for both WWI and WWII.

Liberal standards: They didn't attack us first therefore the war is illegal.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

Smile


"They didn't attack us first therefore the war is illegal,"  you wrote above.

Wrong.  Japan did attack us first, and Germany declared war on us a day or two later.

Smile on those facts ...

If we're going by liberal standards just because Japan attacked us it did not give us the right to attack Germany.

Learn to read and comprehend.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fNY0JuATpQ

Smile

Yes -- learning to read and comprehend are important qualities -- too bad you are unable to grasp them.   ..."Japan attacked us it did not give us the right to attack Germany," you wrote, no doubt while stoned.

Once again, Germany declared war on America, not vice versa!  Are you saying we shouldn't have fought back?  LOL


New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQi-tnlKOaOXp2ftOZIzgFyboJytYaG0TjJvH0PTdaZQf482V03xg

Yes learning to read and comprehend are important qualities.

And using liberal standards I am completely correct.

So your issue is?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ljy6PTbX9I

Smile

2seaoat



And using liberal standards I am completely correct.

Yes, when you talk to yourself, you are completely correct.

It was turned on for me by a college professor in North Alabama. Excellent professor. That is what is so great about teaching when a teacher can connect with students and inspire. I was working on a paper in the early 70s on the Sino Soviet conflict and how the myth of the monolithic communist threat could not be sustained because of the inherent self interest of nationalism when I began reading Tuchman. I have not since 1976 done much academic reading or written much, but what I enjoyed so much about her style was her ability to capture the essence of General Stilwel, and his insight into the Chinese. I idolized Stilwell. His work ethic and incredible discipline in learning Chinese were an inspiration for me. Sadly, because of vocation change, I do not get to read as much as I once did.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:And using liberal standards I am completely correct.

Yes, when you talk to yourself, you are completely correct.

It was turned on for me by a college professor in North Alabama.  Excellent professor.  That is what is so great about teaching when a teacher can connect with students and inspire.   I was working on a paper in the early 70s on the Sino Soviet conflict and how the myth of the monolithic communist threat could not be sustained because of the inherent self interest of nationalism when I began reading Tuchman.  I have not since 1976 done much academic reading or written much, but what I enjoyed so much about her style was her ability to capture the essence of General Stilwel, and his insight into the Chinese.   I idolized Stilwell.  His work ethic and incredible discipline in learning Chinese were an inspiration for me.  Sadly, because of vocation change, I do not get to read as much as I once did.

New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSOK6akfgyGIOPLv4hryWmHbL-2MZznfsOByFPU5b1ZypmSOmobag

You and Wordslinger are the liberals justifying attacking a country just because a declaration of war was made but the first punch was not thrown in response by the party making the declaration.

Sounds like the two of you are turning into Neocons to me...

So how soon will Iran be turned into a parking lot for their declaration of war?

And how can I be talking to myself if you and Wordslinger are replying?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ljy6PTbX9I

Smile

Guest


Guest

Does this help?


Seventy-Seventh Congress of the United States of America; At the First Session Begun and held at the City of Washington, on Friday, the third day of January, 1942.

JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring That a State of War Exists Between The Government of Germany and the Government and the People of the United States and Making Provisions To Prosecute The Same

Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the Government and the people of the United States of America: Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

(Signed) Sam Rayburn, Speaker of the House of Representatives
(Signed) H. A. Wallace, Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate
Approved December 11, 1941 3:05 PM E.S.T.
(Signed) Franklin D. Roosevelt[2]

Markle

Markle

KarlRove wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAq5rAuwwKzvyekgemAV2lubzfXEjHiNMRx88eomA4zqh_5CV6bg

A war with Germany which if we go by the liberal standards was illegal for both WWI and WWII.

Liberal standards: They didn't attack us first therefore the war is illegal.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

Smile

It wasn't illegal bro. Hitler declared war on us after Roosevelt declared war on Japan.

Japan declared war on us first.

2seaoat



Sounds like the two of you are turning into Neocons to me...

If your definition is that a Neocon is not a fricking idiot regarding history......well we plead guilty.

Guest


Guest

"JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring that a state of war exists between the Imperial Government of Japan and the Government and the people of the United States and making provisions to prosecute the same.

Whereas the Imperial Government of Japan has committed unprovoked acts of war against the Government and the people of the United States of America:

Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Imperial Government of Japan which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Imperial Government of Japan; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States."

Guest


Guest

SheWrites wrote:Does this help?


Seventy-Seventh Congress of the United States of America; At the First Session Begun and held at the City of Washington, on Friday, the third day of January, 1942.

JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring That a State of War Exists Between The Government of Germany and the Government and the People of the United States and Making Provisions To Prosecute The Same

Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the Government and the people of the United States of America: Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

(Signed) Sam Rayburn, Speaker of the House of Representatives
(Signed) H. A. Wallace, Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate
Approved December 11, 1941 3:05 PM E.S.T.
(Signed) Franklin D. Roosevelt[2]

New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwYkh9D5VDlA3NoHCls373z0BsYVhtshey2LhknHea32z93DBjeA

I'm sure if I looked it up that the wars fought in Afghanistan and Iran have pretty looking resolutions also.

Yet for years I've had to listen to FT and others rant about how Bush and the Republicans are war criminals even though those resolutions were bipartisan.

So what makes this any different?

There were lies and obfuscation to have the United States enter the world wars. Seems to me that these politicians of the past are just as much war criminals.

Why expect me to over look the lies and misdirection's in one case and crucify others?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ljy6PTbX9I

Smile



Last edited by Damaged Eagle on 12/10/2014, 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest


Guest

Damaged Eagle wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Does this help?


Seventy-Seventh Congress of the United States of America; At the First Session Begun and held at the City of Washington, on Friday, the third day of January, 1942.

JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring That a State of War Exists Between The Government of Germany and the Government and the People of the United States and Making Provisions To Prosecute The Same

Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the Government and the people of the United States of America: Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

(Signed) Sam Rayburn, Speaker of the House of Representatives
(Signed) H. A. Wallace, Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate
Approved December 11, 1941 3:05 PM E.S.T.
(Signed) Franklin D. Roosevelt[2]

New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwYkh9D5VDlA3NoHCls373z0BsYVhtshey2LhknHea32z93DBjeA

I'm sure if I looked it up that the wars fought in Afghanistan and Iran have pretty looking resolutions also.

Yet for years I've had to listen to FT and others rant about how Bush and the Republicans are war criminals even though those resolutions were bipartisan.

So what makes this any different?

There were lies and obfuscation to have the United States enter the world wars. Seems to me that these politicians of the past are just as much war criminals.

Why expect me to over look the lies and misdirection's in one case and crucify others?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ljy6PTbX9I

Smile  

Gulf War, Afghanistan, and Iraq do not have declarations of war but are "military engagements" authorized by Congress. The Gulf War was also authorized by the UN.

2seaoat



I speak Eagle

Guest


Guest

SheWrites wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Does this help?


Seventy-Seventh Congress of the United States of America; At the First Session Begun and held at the City of Washington, on Friday, the third day of January, 1942.

JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring That a State of War Exists Between The Government of Germany and the Government and the People of the United States and Making Provisions To Prosecute The Same

Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the Government and the people of the United States of America: Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

(Signed) Sam Rayburn, Speaker of the House of Representatives
(Signed) H. A. Wallace, Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate
Approved December 11, 1941 3:05 PM E.S.T.
(Signed) Franklin D. Roosevelt[2]

I'm sure if I looked it up that the wars fought in Afghanistan and Iran have pretty looking resolutions also.

Yet for years I've had to listen to FT and others rant about how Bush and the Republicans are war criminals even though those resolutions were bipartisan.

So what makes this any different?

There were lies and obfuscation to have the United States enter the world wars. Seems to me that these politicians of the past are just as much war criminals.

Why expect me to over look the lies and misdirection's in one case and crucify others?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ljy6PTbX9I

Smile  

Gulf War, Afghanistan, and Iraq do not have declarations of war but are "military engagements" authorized by Congress.  The Gulf War was also authorized by the UN.

New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVBk4AFEh0tLP3Bwdo2tfXNAYeUlPdlb-54BFjRzdydVrv4gtvMA

Where did I say there were any declarations of war?

Yet they're still referred to as wars.

So now you're saying that it takes a declaration of war to make it all better?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ljy6PTbX9I

Smile

Guest


Guest

Only pointing out the declarations and how the "conflicts" since the Korean war had no declarations.

War  does have merit.  But the losses are great.  There is no merit to a war that does not have an end strategy or does not establish freedom or does not make the enemy relinquish.



Last edited by SheWrites on 12/10/2014, 3:42 pm; edited 2 times in total

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:I speak Eagle


New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRviVk9ifSP_rRxlVqMcc0D9HZQDeXd7mIaOHYhPM9Yv3uhx62z1Q

Well we can see which path Seaoat decided to take.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUnqbBgYZmI

Very Happy



Last edited by Damaged Eagle on 12/10/2014, 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest


Guest

SheWrites wrote:Only pointing out the declarations and how the "conflicts" since the Korean war had no declarations.

War  does have merit.  But the losses are great.  There is no merit to a war that does not have an end strategy or does not establish freedom or does not make the enemy relinquish.

New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-u3OMW6vjkrTWIE9y4dy9W5W0d94T9m8kYYRuhZPEyO03IrYYwA

The only merit war has is each side killing the other until they're both to exhausted to fight anymore.

It would seem you search for utopia in a world of human failings.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diOuUYcenW0

Smile

Guest


Guest

Damaged Eagle wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Only pointing out the declarations and how the "conflicts" since the Korean war had no declarations.

War  does have merit.  But the losses are great.  There is no merit to a war that does not have an end strategy or does not establish freedom or does not make the enemy relinquish.

New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-u3OMW6vjkrTWIE9y4dy9W5W0d94T9m8kYYRuhZPEyO03IrYYwA

The only merit war has is each side killing the other until they're both to exhausted to fight anymore.

It would seem you search for utopia in a world of human failings.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diOuUYcenW0

Smile

I've sent family off to war. If I want to hope for utopia, so be it. You'd think as a society we would be at the point, in the 21st century, that war would not be the fix to grievances. However, when ideologies are rooted in mindsets of centuries past what's the answer?

Guest


Guest

SheWrites wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Only pointing out the declarations and how the "conflicts" since the Korean war had no declarations.

War  does have merit.  But the losses are great.  There is no merit to a war that does not have an end strategy or does not establish freedom or does not make the enemy relinquish.

The only merit war has is each side killing the other until they're both to exhausted to fight anymore.

It would seem you search for utopia in a world of human failings.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diOuUYcenW0

Smile

I've sent family off to war.  If I want to hope for utopia, so be it.  You'd think as a society we would be at the point, in the 21st century, that war would not be the fix to grievances. However, when ideologies are rooted in mindsets of centuries past what's the answer?  

New book exposes how FDR goaded Japan into war - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ5pW2yGvz_nNKAzE_isXvU24i-En0nsTySTkLHfa6klVtwdXliNA

I'ma' thinkin' there ain't no such answer. Man's inherent aggression due to his animalistic past won't allow such.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VR3Av9qfZc

Smile

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