More than 2,200 hospitals face penalties under ObamaCare rules

Slicef18 wrote:You posted a very informative letter. Thanks, as it's those letters that put meat on the bones of any topic. Let me add that most hospitals either won't hire a nursing grad until board scores have returned. Or if they do hire a nursing grad they are assigned "Nurse Aid" or "Nursing Assistant" position until board scores return.

Thank you. I agree and I am sure Joanie and PB will agree as well. That position is a licensed position by the state. And CLIA (CMS) requires a person performing those duties to have a valid state license before they start praticing. Im sure you know this.

I know people get agravated with me on this issue. And its not such a political issue for me as it is what I am seeing as the results of the bill so far and the other items coming.

Ive come to the conclusion that perhaps its not in our best interest to have the government solve this problem of access to healthcare. They are not doing a good job of insuring those that really need it get it and those that dont, just have it to abuse.

Take for instance, I know a woman who has been a epileptic since the age of about 13. She takes about $700 a month in medication. Has since 13. She cant drive because of it, cant get disablity even though within the past 3 years she has also been diagnosed with a enlarged heart. She walks to work everyday, and will be walking to work tomorrow in this storm we are about to have, unless I drive her, which I probaly will. But never the less, this is a good citizen trying her best. Her kids are now grown as the last one turned 18 2 months ago. She lost her medical benefits now is struggling to get her medication. Didnt have it last month and had a seizure, went to the hospital for 3 days because of it. Shes 37

Now compare to the fact that thousands of people around here have medicaid and they are relativly healthy and a good majority of them will use this medicaid to go to the doctor for a hurt knee to get pain pills.

This is the problem we get from allowing the government to make these types of decisions. Perhaps and its just a fleeting thought, that a medical doctor needs to sign off a form to see if you qualify for free gov health ins?

I know, teo is going to blast me because he thinks all doctors are out for is to get rich. I think he has them mistaken for lawyers lol
Some are. But some in every group is always the exception. This is a big problem and must be dealt with on a BIG picture level.

I dont know whjat the answer is, but one thing I am certain of is that dismantling a system for 80% of the population for 10-20% of the population who may not even really need it is not a sound policy to me.

We need to figure out how to fill the cracks without re-painting the whole house. Sorry for the poor analogy.

First off your friend needs a lawyer advocate to assist in getting medical benefits established. Yes Obamacare has some problems as a new law trying to cover a large group of people but so did Social Security and Medicare when they were implemented. Opponents say both Social Security and Medicare are going broke. They are not, they are underfunded. Congress repeatedly says they just saved X dollars on Social Security. No.......what they did was reduce it's funding. Suppose you had a car that costs $500 a month in payments. Suppose you decide to pay $450 a month in payments. Well sure enough you'd start running short in your pay off schedule.
Notice we never hear that the military is running out of money and yet it uses just as much money as Social Security. That's because it's not underfunded.

Chrissy8 wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

nochain wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:Ft, do you try really hard to not see the truth here?

FlawedTexican has never met a fact that could not be ignored in her quixotic quest to defend all things Obummeroni.

I happen to have hospital administration experience. Also, my daughter just passed her nursing boards. You're a dolt.

BS...if you had "hospital administration experience" mixed in somewhere between your multiple lifetime employment changes ..you would know about DRG's.....and passing nursing boards has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Most hospitals will not hire a nurse until those board exams have been passed.

Well I dont beleive passing a nursing exam has anything to do with medical billing, if so I am sure Joanie or PB can both tell us, Joanie is a retired nurse and I think PB still is. and I am in managment and deal with billing quite often, not as much now, but I understand DRG's and even so, to the point is that doctors and the hospital are very scared of being sued and more often then not they give additional care over sending home early. and to be honest a DRG payment isnt that much and if that problem has forced them to try to fit in as many as they can, then that is a direct result of the reimbursment being too low. and thats the type of thing you can expect more of when the payment is slashed again and the number of clients increase. its just a very simple thing to understand.

and teo..most doctors do care. many doctors out here are going bankrupt trying to continue their practice. they put in a lot of hard work and sacrafice to become doctors, they should be paid well. and since you hate healthcare professionals so much, i do recomend you retire from your healthcare professional job that you're paid so very very well for.

I know some good Doctors. But I have known just as many that were in it for the money. I use a broad brush sometimes . Taking kick backs to push dangerous drugs on people isn't my idea of a professional, more like a hack. What I do in healthcare makes patients safer and gives professionals the tools to do a better job and make less mistakes. I guess it was a Doctor that gave me my opinion. I read the Confessions of a Medical Heretic long ago and have had a jaundiced eye about healthcare ever since.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

nochain wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:Ft, do you try really hard to not see the truth here?

FlawedTexican has never met a fact that could not be ignored in her quixotic quest to defend all things Obummeroni.

I happen to have hospital administration experience. Also, my daughter just passed her nursing boards. You're a dolt.

BS...if you had "hospital administration experience" mixed in somewhere between your multiple lifetime employment changes ..you would know about DRG's.....and passing nursing boards has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Most hospitals will not hire a nurse until those board exams have been passed.

Well I dont beleive passing a nursing exam has anything to do with medical billing, if so I am sure Joanie or PB can both tell us, Joanie is a retired nurse and I think PB still is. and I am in managment and deal with billing quite often, not as much now, but I understand DRG's and even so, to the point is that doctors and the hospital are very scared of being sued and more often then not they give additional care over sending home early. and to be honest a DRG payment isnt that much and if that problem has forced them to try to fit in as many as they can, then that is a direct result of the reimbursment being too low. and thats the type of thing you can expect more of when the payment is slashed again and the number of clients increase. its just a very simple thing to understand.

and teo..most doctors do care. many doctors out here are going bankrupt trying to continue their practice. they put in a lot of hard work and sacrafice to become doctors, they should be paid well. and since you hate healthcare professionals so much, i do recomend you retire from your healthcare professional job that you're paid so very very well for.

I know some good Doctors. But I have known just as many that were in it for the money. I use a broad brush sometimes . Taking kick backs to push dangerous drugs on people isn't my idea of a professional, more like a hack. What I do in healthcare makes patients safer and gives professionals the tools to do a better job and make less mistakes. I guess it was a Doctor that gave me my opinion. I read the Confessions of a Medical Heretic long ago and have had a jaundiced eye about healthcare ever since.

If you look for greedy in any occupation you'll find them.

We also keep hearing that Obamacare will cause doctors to close their medical practices. That is such "BUNK". Like their going to throw away 12 years of education and become a radio host or farmer or truck driver. That ain't gonna happen.I don't think these "Rt Wingers" understand doctors. Lawyers are by education and training "Adversarial." Doctors are not "Adversarial."

Slicef18 wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

nochain wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:Ft, do you try really hard to not see the truth here?

FlawedTexican has never met a fact that could not be ignored in her quixotic quest to defend all things Obummeroni.

I happen to have hospital administration experience. Also, my daughter just passed her nursing boards. You're a dolt.

BS...if you had "hospital administration experience" mixed in somewhere between your multiple lifetime employment changes ..you would know about DRG's.....and passing nursing boards has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Most hospitals will not hire a nurse until those board exams have been passed.

Well I dont beleive passing a nursing exam has anything to do with medical billing, if so I am sure Joanie or PB can both tell us, Joanie is a retired nurse and I think PB still is. and I am in managment and deal with billing quite often, not as much now, but I understand DRG's and even so, to the point is that doctors and the hospital are very scared of being sued and more often then not they give additional care over sending home early. and to be honest a DRG payment isnt that much and if that problem has forced them to try to fit in as many as they can, then that is a direct result of the reimbursment being too low. and thats the type of thing you can expect more of when the payment is slashed again and the number of clients increase. its just a very simple thing to understand.

and teo..most doctors do care. many doctors out here are going bankrupt trying to continue their practice. they put in a lot of hard work and sacrafice to become doctors, they should be paid well. and since you hate healthcare professionals so much, i do recomend you retire from your healthcare professional job that you're paid so very very well for.

I know some good Doctors. But I have known just as many that were in it for the money. I use a broad brush sometimes . Taking kick backs to push dangerous drugs on people isn't my idea of a professional, more like a hack. What I do in healthcare makes patients safer and gives professionals the tools to do a better job and make less mistakes. I guess it was a Doctor that gave me my opinion. I read the Confessions of a Medical Heretic long ago and have had a jaundiced eye about healthcare ever since.

If you look for greedy in any occupation you'll find them.

Agree but most only injure the wallet.

You make a great argument for a national healthcare policy.

Damaged Eagle wrote:

skankymoranky wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

nochain wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:Ft, do you try really hard to not see the truth here?

FlawedTexican has never met a fact that could not be ignored in her quixotic quest to defend all things Obummeroni.

I happen to have hospital administration experience. Also, my daughter just passed her nursing boards. You're a dolt.

That explains why you support a bill that forces everyone to buy health insurance even if they don't want it but refuse to believe that the health industry should be nationalized even though you say everyone should have health care.

You just support it for the money that it'll put in your pocket.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

I'm sick and tired of losers like yourself who don't want to buy health insurance but when they get sick we have to pay for it. Whatever it takes to make people responsible for themselves.

Actually sweetie I have health care covered.

I'm sick and tired of losers like you who sit at home in their Momma's basement refusing to get a job so you can buy your own health care policy because you think everyone should pay for your sorry behind when you go to the ER for treatment.

If this is so important to you why don't you join the armed forces so that you'll be covered? Or maybe you've went that route and are so much of a loser that they didn't even want you.

Quit living off other peoples money, get a job, and be responsible for yourself.

*****CHUCKLE*****

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=I5007614692033013&pid=1.7&w=95&h=142&c=7&rs=1

Why would you make an clueless statement like that? I have a job and healthcare. If you have healthcare covered then why are you complaining about "forced healthcare"? I see you make childish nonresponsve answers as you don't have an intelligent thought.

Slicef18 wrote:You posted a very informative letter. Thanks, as it's those letters that put meat on the bones of any topic. Let me add that most hospitals either won't hire a nursing grad until board scores have returned. Or if they do hire a nursing grad they are assigned "Nurse Aid" or "Nursing Assistant" position until board scores return.

Actually, slice, a nurse who has not yet passed boards is referred to as a "GN", or graduate nurse. They can be and often are hired for nursing positions. Maintaining that position is contingent upon passing the board exam.

EDIT: If I knew how, I'd draw a little, white cap on my bulldog avatar's tough, old head. Can anybody do this for me? It has to have a thin, black stripe at the bottom of the cap. Heheeee!!!

PBulldog2 wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:You posted a very informative letter. Thanks, as it's those letters that put meat on the bones of any topic. Let me add that most hospitals either won't hire a nursing grad until board scores have returned. Or if they do hire a nursing grad they are assigned "Nurse Aid" or "Nursing Assistant" position until board scores return.

Actually, slice, a nurse who has not yet passed boards is referred to as a "GN", or graduate nurse. They can be and often are hired for nursing positions. Maintaining that position is contingent upon passing the board exam.

EDIT: If I knew how, I'd draw a little, white cap on my bulldog avatar's tough, old head. Can anybody do this for me? It has to have a thin, black stripe at the bottom of the cap. Heheeee!!!

They would be working under a training license.

I never see nurses wearing those cute little old fashioned hats and skirts anymore. They wear scrubs now. Those were some sexy outfits I must say. I used to see the christian college nursing students come into baptist all the time and they would wear cute little outfits and carry these matching lunches around with them. It was very amusing.

skankymoranky wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

skankymoranky wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

nochain wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:Ft, do you try really hard to not see the truth here?

FlawedTexican has never met a fact that could not be ignored in her quixotic quest to defend all things Obummeroni.

I happen to have hospital administration experience. Also, my daughter just passed her nursing boards. You're a dolt.

That explains why you support a bill that forces everyone to buy health insurance even if they don't want it but refuse to believe that the health industry should be nationalized even though you say everyone should have health care.

You just support it for the money that it'll put in your pocket.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

I'm sick and tired of losers like yourself who don't want to buy health insurance but when they get sick we have to pay for it. Whatever it takes to make people responsible for themselves.

Actually sweetie I have health care covered.

I'm sick and tired of losers like you who sit at home in their Momma's basement refusing to get a job so you can buy your own health care policy because you think everyone should pay for your sorry behind when you go to the ER for treatment.

If this is so important to you why don't you join the armed forces so that you'll be covered? Or maybe you've went that route and are so much of a loser that they didn't even want you.

Quit living off other peoples money, get a job, and be responsible for yourself.

*****CHUCKLE*****

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=I5007614692033013&pid=1.7&w=95&h=142&c=7&rs=1

Why would you make an clueless statement like that? I have a job and healthcare. If you have healthcare covered then why are you complaining about "forced healthcare"? I see you make childish nonresponsve answers as you don't have an intelligent thought.

I see... Now your saying it's alright for the government to FORCE someone to do something. The citizens of this country no longer have rights? I think you're the foolish and clueless one.

If you're going to say that health care is the right of all then health care should be available to all. In which case the government should be in charge the health care industry itself and it should nationalized for the public interest.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

"Now your saying it's alright for the government to FORCE someone to do something."

The government forces us to not only have a a licenses to drive, you must also have on a sat belt and obey the rules of the road. This is but one of the many rules imposed on us as a civilized society. Now if you don't think the rules of society are for you, there are many places among the grizzly where you can set up camp and I salute you for doing so.

Slicef18 wrote:"Now your saying it's alright for the government to FORCE someone to do something."

The government forces us to not only have a a licenses to drive, you must also have on a sat belt and obey the rules of the road. This is but one of the many rules imposed on us as a civilized society. Now if you don't think the rules of society are for you, there are many places among the grizzly where you can set up camp and I salute you for doing so.

When talking about the gov "forces" us to do stuff, because we are a civilized society, we should recall 2 important things. 1. the enforcment of a seat belt etc is at the own cost of the person using it. the healthcare bill is a cost that will be forced on the tax payers, lower middle class and up, most others will get a subsidy and rich people dont care about no lirttle penalty. so its the middle class attach again.

and 2. When we start doing things such as this and use the excuse that we are a civilized society and no doubt we are, but this should be a red flag. This means that anything "subjectivly" thought of in the minds of our gov that would be considered a needed requirment to living in a civilized society coud be justified and passed into law for the peoples own well being. Sounds kind of orwellian to me.

Slicef18 wrote:"Now your saying it's alright for the government to FORCE someone to do something."

The government forces us to not only have a a licenses to drive, you must also have on a sat belt and obey the rules of the road. This is but one of the many rules imposed on us as a civilized society. Now if you don't think the rules of society are for you, there are many places among the grizzly where you can set up camp and I salute you for doing so.

Then you should have no problem demanding that the health care industry being placed under the governments control completely by nationalizing it for the greater good and providing the same services to all equally.

What makes you think we're a civilized society?

The current president has already ordered our military to drop bombs in on three different countries, still has our troops stationed in a number of foreign countries for no apparent reason, wants to start wars with at least three different countries without even attempting to go there and negotiate with them, turns his attention from the various countries that commit genocide against their own people, allows his own people to live without food and shelter while sending his daughter on holiday thereby expending millions of tax dollars that could be used for the greater good, etc... Shall I go on?...

Looks to me like we're all on the...

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akoukq5DvAE

Chrissy8 wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:"Now your saying it's alright for the government to FORCE someone to do something."

The government forces us to not only have a a licenses to drive, you must also have on a sat belt and obey the rules of the road. This is but one of the many rules imposed on us as a civilized society. Now if you don't think the rules of society are for you, there are many places among the grizzly where you can set up camp and I salute you for doing so.

When talking about the gov "forces" us to do stuff, because we are a civilized society, we should recall 2 important things. 1. the enforcment of a seat belt etc is at the own cost of the person using it. the healthcare bill is a cost that will be forced on the tax payers, lower middle class and up, most others will get a subsidy and rich people dont care about no lirttle penalty. so its the middle class attach again.

and 2. When we start doing things such as this and use the excuse that we are a civilized society and no doubt we are, but this should be a red flag. This means that anything "subjectivly" thought of in the minds of our gov that would be considered a needed requirment to living in a civilized society coud be justified and passed into law for the peoples own well being. Sounds kind of orwellian to me.

*****WARM SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKiMbC6s2k

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:"Now your saying it's alright for the government to FORCE someone to do something."

The government forces us to not only have a a licenses to drive, you must also have on a sat belt and obey the rules of the road. This is but one of the many rules imposed on us as a civilized society. Now if you don't think the rules of society are for you, there are many places among the grizzly where you can set up camp and I salute you for doing so.

When talking about the gov "forces" us to do stuff, because we are a civilized society, we should recall 2 important things. 1. the enforcment of a seat belt etc is at the own cost of the person using it. the healthcare bill is a cost that will be forced on the tax payers, lower middle class and up, most others will get a subsidy and rich people dont care about no lirttle penalty. so its the middle class attach again.

and 2. When we start doing things such as this and use the excuse that we are a civilized society and no doubt we are, but this should be a red flag. This means that anything "subjectivly" thought of in the minds of our gov that would be considered a needed requirment to living in a civilized society coud be justified and passed into law for the peoples own well being. Sounds kind of orwellian to me.

*****WARM SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKiMbC6s2k

Thank you. I really enjoyed that tune

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:"Now your saying it's alright for the government to FORCE someone to do something."

The government forces us to not only have a a licenses to drive, you must also have on a sat belt and obey the rules of the road. This is but one of the many rules imposed on us as a civilized society. Now if you don't think the rules of society are for you, there are many places among the grizzly where you can set up camp and I salute you for doing so.

When talking about the gov "forces" us to do stuff, because we are a civilized society, we should recall 2 important things. 1. the enforcment of a seat belt etc is at the own cost of the person using it. the healthcare bill is a cost that will be forced on the tax payers, lower middle class and up, most others will get a subsidy and rich people dont care about no lirttle penalty. so its the middle class attach again.

and 2. When we start doing things such as this and use the excuse that we are a civilized society and no doubt we are, but this should be a red flag. This means that anything "subjectivly" thought of in the minds of our gov that would be considered a needed requirment to living in a civilized society coud be justified and passed into law for the peoples own well being. Sounds kind of orwellian to me.

*****WARM SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKiMbC6s2k

And what will you do with the individual who exercised his right to not purchase health insurance and has been in an accident causing catastrophic injuries to internal organs?
(a) do you remind him of his choice to not purchase health insurance and let him die?
(b) treat him and add his medical bills on to the other patients?

Slicef18 wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:"Now your saying it's alright for the government to FORCE someone to do something."

The government forces us to not only have a a licenses to drive, you must also have on a sat belt and obey the rules of the road. This is but one of the many rules imposed on us as a civilized society. Now if you don't think the rules of society are for you, there are many places among the grizzly where you can set up camp and I salute you for doing so.

When talking about the gov "forces" us to do stuff, because we are a civilized society, we should recall 2 important things. 1. the enforcment of a seat belt etc is at the own cost of the person using it. the healthcare bill is a cost that will be forced on the tax payers, lower middle class and up, most others will get a subsidy and rich people dont care about no lirttle penalty. so its the middle class attach again.

and 2. When we start doing things such as this and use the excuse that we are a civilized society and no doubt we are, but this should be a red flag. This means that anything "subjectivly" thought of in the minds of our gov that would be considered a needed requirment to living in a civilized society coud be justified and passed into law for the peoples own well being. Sounds kind of orwellian to me.

*****WARM SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKiMbC6s2k

And what will you do with the individual who exercised his right to not purchase health insurance and has been in an accident causing catastrophic injuries to internal organs?
(a) do you remind him of his choice to not purchase health insurance and let him die?
(b) treat him and add his medical bills on to the other patients?

the question is what will the leftists do... obamacare is your baby. didn't "mao basically get it right"?

PkrBum wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:"Now your saying it's alright for the government to FORCE someone to do something."

The government forces us to not only have a a licenses to drive, you must also have on a sat belt and obey the rules of the road. This is but one of the many rules imposed on us as a civilized society. Now if you don't think the rules of society are for you, there are many places among the grizzly where you can set up camp and I salute you for doing so.

When talking about the gov "forces" us to do stuff, because we are a civilized society, we should recall 2 important things. 1. the enforcment of a seat belt etc is at the own cost of the person using it. the healthcare bill is a cost that will be forced on the tax payers, lower middle class and up, most others will get a subsidy and rich people dont care about no lirttle penalty. so its the middle class attach again.

and 2. When we start doing things such as this and use the excuse that we are a civilized society and no doubt we are, but this should be a red flag. This means that anything "subjectivly" thought of in the minds of our gov that would be considered a needed requirment to living in a civilized society coud be justified and passed into law for the peoples own well being. Sounds kind of orwellian to me.

*****WARM SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKiMbC6s2k

And what will you do with the individual who exercised his right to not purchase health insurance and has been in an accident causing catastrophic injuries to internal organs?
(a) do you remind him of his choice to not purchase health insurance and let him die?
(b) treat him and add his medical bills on to the other patients?

the question is what will the leftists do... obamacare is your baby. didn't "mao basically get it right"?

Talk about completely avoiding the question that was presented to the "No insurance" Minded person who needs to put labels like "Leftist". Obamacare is not my baby and never was. Come to think of it, there's no such program or policy as obamacare

obamacare is a collectivist edict... call it whatever you want... fascism even works.

Slicef18 wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Chrissy8 wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:"Now your saying it's alright for the government to FORCE someone to do something."

The government forces us to not only have a a licenses to drive, you must also have on a sat belt and obey the rules of the road. This is but one of the many rules imposed on us as a civilized society. Now if you don't think the rules of society are for you, there are many places among the grizzly where you can set up camp and I salute you for doing so.

When talking about the gov "forces" us to do stuff, because we are a civilized society, we should recall 2 important things. 1. the enforcment of a seat belt etc is at the own cost of the person using it. the healthcare bill is a cost that will be forced on the tax payers, lower middle class and up, most others will get a subsidy and rich people dont care about no lirttle penalty. so its the middle class attach again.

and 2. When we start doing things such as this and use the excuse that we are a civilized society and no doubt we are, but this should be a red flag. This means that anything "subjectivly" thought of in the minds of our gov that would be considered a needed requirment to living in a civilized society coud be justified and passed into law for the peoples own well being. Sounds kind of orwellian to me.

*****WARM SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKiMbC6s2k

And what will you do with the individual who exercised his right to not purchase health insurance and has been in an accident causing catastrophic injuries to internal organs?
(a) do you remind him of his choice to not purchase health insurance and let him die?
(b) treat him and add his medical bills on to the other patients?

I've stated before and I'll state it again...

If you believe that health care is a basic right of all individuals then the health care industry should be nationalized and the government should have complete control over it.

I have no problem paying the doctors and nurses by the military pay scale.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

PkrBum wrote:obamacare is a collectivist edict... call it whatever you want... fascism even works.

Spoken like someone who knows they have reached the boundaries of the indefensible. Rather than answer the question straightforward, they use the language name calling. Such a conversation has no purpose.

Slicef18 wrote:First off your friend needs a lawyer advocate to assist in getting medical benefits established. Yes Obamacare has some problems as a new law trying to cover a large group of people but so did Social Security and Medicare when they were implemented. Opponents say both Social Security and Medicare are going broke. They are not, they are underfunded. Congress repeatedly says they just saved X dollars on Social Security. No.......what they did was reduce it's funding. Suppose you had a car that costs $500 a month in payments. Suppose you decide to pay $450 a month in payments. Well sure enough you'd start running short in your pay off schedule.
Notice we never hear that the military is running out of money and yet it uses just as much money as Social Security. That's because it's not underfunded.

Then why have medical benefits been cut ever since the Viet Nam war ended and vets have had to pay more and more for things that were guaranteed prior to that?

Probably because that not underfunded budget you're talking about goes to building new ships, planes, tanks, bases, repair parts, barracks, housing, paychecks, etc...

I'll suggest you stay away from using the VA as a shining example of how our health care system will be.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:First off your friend needs a lawyer advocate to assist in getting medical benefits established. Yes Obamacare has some problems as a new law trying to cover a large group of people but so did Social Security and Medicare when they were implemented. Opponents say both Social Security and Medicare are going broke. They are not, they are underfunded. Congress repeatedly says they just saved X dollars on Social Security. No.......what they did was reduce it's funding. Suppose you had a car that costs $500 a month in payments. Suppose you decide to pay $450 a month in payments. Well sure enough you'd start running short in your pay off schedule.
Notice we never hear that the military is running out of money and yet it uses just as much money as Social Security. That's because it's not underfunded.

Then why have medical benefits been cut ever since the Viet Nam war ended and vets have had to pay more and more for things that were guaranteed prior to that?

Probably because that not underfunded budget you're talking about goes to building new ships, planes, tanks, bases, repair parts, barracks, housing, paychecks, etc...

I'll suggest you stay away from using the VA as a shining example of how our health care system will be.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

You fail to understand the mindset of our military leaders. The military sees assets as necessary the win a war. Veterans are no longer a military asset, they are a liability and are a burden using assets that could be used in the prosecution of a military objective. Just look at Walter Reed Army Medical Center as an example of how military leaders value our men and women when the can no longer fulfill a military need.

Slicef18 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:obamacare is a collectivist edict... call it whatever you want... fascism even works.

Spoken like someone who knows they have reached the boundaries of the indefensible. Rather than answer the question straightforward, they use the language name calling. Such a conversation has no purpose.

I'd like to answer your question. What to do with the person who choose no insurance and got in a wreck. You tend to him. Then you garnish his wages if he cant prove he is indiginent. If he is indiginent, then his treatement dalls in the charity category.

Ill say it again, we should not mess up the 80% of people with healthcare ins now for the sake of 10-20%. Its less than that and about 10% in your area.

People want to continue to argue on this subject as if it is some moral ground and you better not say anything against it or you want people to die. This is rediculous. I want every single person to have ins, nothing would make me happier. Thats more clients and people are healthier, whats not to like?

But the methods the gov is using now is set out to punish the healthcare system and it will descrease services and care. Just like this little punishment given here in this topic.

Dont expect to get better healthcare with these tactics and punishments. these tactics may have worked on slaves, but educated people will go elsewhere and tell you to shove it sooner or later.

and what in the hell is your avatar?

Slicef18 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:obamacare is a collectivist edict... call it whatever you want... fascism even works.

Spoken like someone who knows they have reached the boundaries of the indefensible. Rather than answer the question straightforward, they use the language name calling. Such a conversation has no purpose.

was "collectivist edict" inaccurate or the reality? what is it in and of itself? what is the result? these are questions... yours was a setup based on a what if that isn't the current reality. i don't blame you for trying to spin... your question doesn't deserve an answer.