Sign the petition - stop Keystone XL

2seaoat wrote:Sorry, but 1/2 of the pipeline capacity was already built five years ago and that awful oil is currently flowing into Illinois.  I crossed over the junction of the pipeline today returning from Northwestern Hospital.  Not one person made a fuss about the first pipeline.  Now it suddenly is the end of the world if the second leg is constructed.  I want solar, wind, hydro, and other renewables to grow as a percentage of our generating capacity, but I saw the largest fish kill happen because a 54 tanker car rail CSX train derailed during high water conditions which compromised a crossing over a creek.  A lady was killed at the nearby crossing and that ethanol poured into the streams and then rivers and choked and killed fish and other wildlife.

Get compliance with local Nebraska law, and follow all laws and safeguards, but to think the pipeline is not already bringing the crude to refineries is simply naive, nor to think that a petition is going to stop this leg of the pipeline is silly.  Carbon tax, credit for renewables, and other positive incentives to lower pollution and increase yields in renewables is a policy of common sense and much more important than futility to stop carbon based energy sources from being utilized......they simply need to pay the price.

Floridatexan wrote:
http://www.foe.org/news/archives/2013-09-a-polluted-process-keystone-xl-the-state-department

knothead wrote:
 What is in it for us as a nation? 

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

knothead wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

Can you respond to the question at hand PD?  What is in it for us as a nation?

2seaoat wrote:Right now the first leg of the pipeline is bringing that "dirty oil" to Illinois refineries and it has been argued this direct transmission of oil to those refineries has lowered midwest gas prices by almost 3 cents a gallon.  The building of second leg will actually hurt the midwest because a lower volume will go to the midwest and more will be exported.  However, keeping our refineries full and efficient brings foreign currency to America and helps us with our balance of payments.  Those exports are essential to keep America in the loop.  Oil will not stop being used simply by petitions being signed.  I will find credibility among Americans who choose energy efficient cars, insulate their homes, choose energy saving lights and appliances, and support candidates who reward with tax incentives for renewables and not this negative campaign against a reality which is pumping dirty oil as we speak and is benefiting Americans.

knothead wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

Can you respond to the question at hand PD?  What is in it for us as a nation?

Gunz wrote:

knothead wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

Can you respond to the question at hand PD?  What is in it for us as a nation?

    For one, we're not buying oil from the people that hate us.  That's a plus in my book.   Second, the pipeline will create more than a handful of jobs as alluded to by someone as it will require maintenance, transportion employees and  a host of contractors to keep it going.    FYI, there are already thousands of miles of pipelines crisscrossing our country carrying hazardous materials .   They have been very safe and have contaminated no-ones water as some would have you believe.

knothead wrote:

Gunz wrote:

knothead wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

Can you respond to the question at hand PD?  What is in it for us as a nation?

    For one, we're not buying oil from the people that hate us.  That's a plus in my book.   Second, the pipeline will create more than a handful of jobs as alluded to by someone as it will require maintenance, transportion employees and  a host of contractors to keep it going.    FYI, there are already thousands of miles of pipelines crisscrossing our country carrying hazardous materials .   They have been very safe and have contaminated no-ones water as some would have you believe.

Agree Gunz, I understand that point of view . . . I'm no tree hugger although I am pragmatic and weigh the consequences . . . we are going to get the oil pipeline or no pipeline . . . . we will not have a net increase of good jobs though.  That matters . . . at least to me.  How do we mitigate an unknown leak not discovered until months have passed allowing this toxic mixture to enter migrate into this pristine aquifer?  There is very little benefit, if any, in approving it but it will most likely get approval . . . we will sell our soul for a buck these days, won't we?  

2seaoat wrote:The current pipeline crosses a friend's 150 year of family ownership grain farm in some of the richest farmland in the world.   It goes under a major interstate right by his farm, and they are very secretive as to locations of these pipelines.  Pipeline transmission is by far the safest way to transport oil and natural gas.  The local Nebraska debate is proper, and route sitings will be based upon safety concerns.   I lived next to a 3 foot 300 lb natural gas pipeline for almost a decade.  If it was compromised, I would not die from the explosion.  I would already be suffocated.  In Texas, trucks would simply stall because the gas displaced the air necessary for the engines to run and people suffocated prior to the gas finding an ignition source.

The Nebraska land is less fertile, and no more exposing of aquifers than the first leg of the pipeline going to the Illinois refineries.   I think the whole carbon debate should be handled as a pollution debate.  If you are going to buy a bottle in Oregon and throw it along the road, you have paid a price for that pollution.  Sure it does not stop pollution, but it deters the same through incentives to keep the bottle or collect the same when it is trash on the roadside.  We need smart incentives to lower pollution.

Markle wrote:

knothead wrote:

Gunz wrote:

knothead wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

Can you respond to the question at hand PD?  What is in it for us as a nation?

    For one, we're not buying oil from the people that hate us.  That's a plus in my book.   Second, the pipeline will create more than a handful of jobs as alluded to by someone as it will require maintenance, transportion employees and  a host of contractors to keep it going.    FYI, there are already thousands of miles of pipelines crisscrossing our country carrying hazardous materials .   They have been very safe and have contaminated no-ones water as some would have you believe.

Agree Gunz, I understand that point of view . . . I'm no tree hugger although I am pragmatic and weigh the consequences . . . we are going to get the oil pipeline or no pipeline . . . . we will not have a net increase of good jobs though.  That matters . . . at least to me.  How do we mitigate an unknown leak not discovered until months have passed allowing this toxic mixture to enter migrate into this pristine aquifer?  There is very little benefit, if any, in approving it but it will most likely get approval . . . we will sell our soul for a buck these days, won't we?  

Would you care to check and see how many miles of underground pipelines we have in this country already?

No, I didn't think so.

knothead wrote:

Gunz wrote:

knothead wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

Can you respond to the question at hand PD?  What is in it for us as a nation?

    For one, we're not buying oil from the people that hate us.  That's a plus in my book.   Second, the pipeline will create more than a handful of jobs as alluded to by someone as it will require maintenance, transportion employees and  a host of contractors to keep it going.    FYI, there are already thousands of miles of pipelines crisscrossing our country carrying hazardous materials .   They have been very safe and have contaminated no-ones water as some would have you believe.

Agree Gunz, I understand that point of view . . . I'm no tree hugger although I am pragmatic and weigh the consequences . . . we are going to get the oil pipeline or no pipeline . . . . we will not have a net increase of good jobs though.  That matters . . . at least to me.  How do we mitigate an unknown leak not discovered until months have passed allowing this toxic mixture to enter migrate into this pristine aquifer?  There is very little benefit, if any, in approving it but it will most likely get approval . . . we will sell our soul for a buck these days, won't we?  

Gunz wrote:

knothead wrote:

Gunz wrote:

knothead wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

Can you respond to the question at hand PD?  What is in it for us as a nation?

    For one, we're not buying oil from the people that hate us.  That's a plus in my book.   Second, the pipeline will create more than a handful of jobs as alluded to by someone as it will require maintenance, transportion employees and  a host of contractors to keep it going.    FYI, there are already thousands of miles of pipelines crisscrossing our country carrying hazardous materials .   They have been very safe and have contaminated no-ones water as some would have you believe.

Agree Gunz, I understand that point of view . . . I'm no tree hugger although I am pragmatic and weigh the consequences . . . we are going to get the oil pipeline or no pipeline . . . . we will not have a net increase of good jobs though.  That matters . . . at least to me.  How do we mitigate an unknown leak not discovered until months have passed allowing this toxic mixture to enter migrate into this pristine aquifer?  There is very little benefit, if any, in approving it but it will most likely get approval . . . we will sell our soul for a buck these days, won't we?  

    I am not educated enough in modern oil product transfer via pipelines to guess as to what safety features are in place to detect a loss of product through leakage.   I can safely guess that with oil being as expensive as it is and also it being considered hazmat while enroute to the refinery surely a company would have detection instruments along the route to figure lost product.    I agree that we have put the environment on the backdoor stoop when it comes to jobs and most people will take fifty jobs here and a dozen there no matter the cost.   That, I'm sure will come back and bite our kids in the future.

knothead wrote:

Gunz wrote:

knothead wrote:

Gunz wrote:

knothead wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

Can you respond to the question at hand PD?  What is in it for us as a nation?

    For one, we're not buying oil from the people that hate us.  That's a plus in my book.   Second, the pipeline will create more than a handful of jobs as alluded to by someone as it will require maintenance, transportion employees and  a host of contractors to keep it going.    FYI, there are already thousands of miles of pipelines crisscrossing our country carrying hazardous materials .   They have been very safe and have contaminated no-ones water as some would have you believe.

Agree Gunz, I understand that point of view . . . I'm no tree hugger although I am pragmatic and weigh the consequences . . . we are going to get the oil pipeline or no pipeline . . . . we will not have a net increase of good jobs though.  That matters . . . at least to me.  How do we mitigate an unknown leak not discovered until months have passed allowing this toxic mixture to enter migrate into this pristine aquifer?  There is very little benefit, if any, in approving it but it will most likely get approval . . . we will sell our soul for a buck these days, won't we?  

    I am not educated enough in modern oil product transfer via pipelines to guess as to what safety features are in place to detect a loss of product through leakage.   I can safely guess that with oil being as expensive as it is and also it being considered hazmat while enroute to the refinery surely a company would have detection instruments along the route to figure lost product.    I agree that we have put the environment on the backdoor stoop when it comes to jobs and most people will take fifty jobs here and a dozen there no matter the cost.   That, I'm sure will come back and bite our kids in the future.

Honest and genuine reply . . . . thanks Gunz . . . I only want to avoid a environmental disaster causing epic damage to a single source that so much and so many rely.

Gunz wrote:

knothead wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

Can you respond to the question at hand PD?  What is in it for us as a nation?

    For one, we're not buying oil from the people that hate us.  That's a plus in my book.   Second, the pipeline will create more than a handful of jobs as alluded to by someone as it will require maintenance, transportion employees and  a host of contractors to keep it going.    FYI, there are already thousands of miles of pipelines crisscrossing our country carrying hazardous materials .   They have been very safe and have contaminated no-ones water as some would have you believe.

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:

Gunz wrote:

knothead wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Build it!!!!!

Can you respond to the question at hand PD?  What is in it for us as a nation?

    For one, we're not buying oil from the people that hate us.  That's a plus in my book.   Second, the pipeline will create more than a handful of jobs as alluded to by someone as it will require maintenance, transportion employees and  a host of contractors to keep it going.    FYI, there are already thousands of miles of pipelines crisscrossing our country carrying hazardous materials .   They have been very safe and have contaminated no-ones water as some would have you believe.

That is a very big plus, Gunz. If new found supply keeps America from having to buy more of it from overseas and defend the supply with American soldiers, it is a good thing. The energy sector in America is doing well, and is one of the brighter areas of an economy still trying to recover from the crash of 2008.  And true, there are thousands of miles of pipelines already crossing the Ogallala Aquifer.