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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » ACA Debate - Observation of the Day

ACA Debate - Observation of the Day

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Sal

Sal

The basturds who think men shouldn't be forced to help pay for women to give birth are the same basturds who think women should be forced to give birth.

2seaoat



The biggest fantasy is that those who are critical of the ACA actually care about the health of Americans. That concept is hilarious. The special interests in health care and large employers who have created shackled indentured servants who could not have mobility in the labor market because of uninsured preexisting conditions......yep they care.

knothead

knothead

2seaoat wrote:The biggest fantasy is that those who are critical of the ACA actually care about the health of Americans.   That concept is hilarious.  The special interests in health care and large employers who have created shackled indentured servants who could not have mobility in the labor market because of uninsured preexisting conditions......yep they care.
Exactly . . . .

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:The biggest fantasy is that those who are critical of the ACA actually care about the health of Americans. That concept is hilarious. The special interests in health care and large employers who have created shackled indentured servants who could not have mobility in the labor market because of uninsured preexisting conditions......yep they care.
Wasn't employer based insurance used as compensation following fdr's wartime wages act? You know... when he dictated that wages couldn't rise. My question now is that once that compensation is extracted from employment... who will really benefit? Will wages rise to compensate? Will employment terms adjust to circumvent another govt solution as they did under fdr? I find it highly suspect that there are always these unforseen outcomes... not considering the lobbying and even direct input these entities have in constructing these laws. Maybe it's just me that doesn't buy it... but then I don't believe in magic or mysticism either.

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:... but then I don't believe in magic or mysticism either.

What do you think all those simplistic axioms you rely so heavily on are?

FREEDUMBZ!!

LIBERTEEZ!!

INVISIBLE HAND!!

AYN RAND!!

lmao

Guest


Guest

Sal wrote:
PkrBum wrote:... but then I don't believe in magic or mysticism either.

What do you think all those simplistic axioms you rely so heavily on are?

FREEDUMBZ!!

LIBERTEEZ!!

INVISIBLE HAND!!

AYN RAND!!

lmao
Congratulations... you were able to dismiss everything out of hand except the meaningless analogy. Happy unicorn day.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:
2seaoat wrote:The biggest fantasy is that those who are critical of the ACA actually care about the health of Americans.   That concept is hilarious.  The special interests in health care and large employers who have created shackled indentured servants who could not have mobility in the labor market because of uninsured preexisting conditions......yep they care.
Wasn't employer based insurance used as compensation following fdr's wartime wages act? You know... when he dictated that wages couldn't rise. My question now is that once that compensation is extracted from employment... who will really benefit? Will wages rise to compensate? Will employment terms adjust to circumvent another govt solution as they did under fdr? I find it highly suspect that there are always these unforseen outcomes... not considering the lobbying and even direct input these entities have in constructing these laws. Maybe it's just me that doesn't buy it... but then I don't believe in magic or mysticism either.
Here's a non-hysterical history of our hodgepodge health care system going back to WW II. Makes you wonder how we've gotten by as long as we have with this odd set up. I agree with sea oat that the worker is tied unnecessarily to his/her employer by the necessity of having coverage. This can't be good for either business or labor.


Workers swarmed through Henry J. Kaiser's Richmond, Calif., shipyard in World War II, building 747 ships for the Navy. The war "had siphoned off the most hardy specimens," a newspaper reported, so Kaiser was left with many workers too young, old or infirm to be drafted.

The workers needed to be in good health to be effective on the job, and Kaiser offered them care from doctors in company clinics and at company hospitals. The workers paid 50 cents a week for the benefit.


It was something new in industrial America — a bonus offered to attract scarce labor while wages were frozen during the war.

The war ended, the workers quit the shipyards, leaving behind hospitals and doctors but no patients. So the company decided to open the system to the public — and that's how generations of Californians who never heard of Kaiser shipyards have since gotten medical care.

It is just one example of the way America's health insurance system has grown into the strange patchwork program it is today.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/27/health/la-he-health-insurance-history-20120227

knothead

knothead

Very interesting OS . . . . an anecdotal story that sheds some light on how we got where we are . . . . .where ya been lately?

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


Here's the reality of the situation today...people get sick. Then they're a drain on the company policy, so they get fired and lose their insurance. Some of them can afford to buy COBRA, but many end up with no job AND no insurance to cover the problem that started their downward slide. I know too many people like this. It's hard to prove wrongful termination; it can be the kiss of death in your industry when you file for worker's comp...word gets around. And even if your problem isn't work-related and you just need for your policy to cover you, you're unlikely to get that. You're out in the cold and your employer has avoided higher insurance premiums. Where is the incentive for an employer to keep a sick employee on the payroll and on the group insurance plan? There is none. That leaves people at the mercy of their employer's good will.

Guest


Guest

knothead wrote:Very interesting OS . . . . an anecdotal story that sheds some light on how we got where we are . . . . .where ya been lately?
There's much more to it. From union risk pools to the advent of ss to direct govt involvement though veteran coverage and more via subsidy and edicts. FDR was very active... there were nearly countless interventions. The fifties sealed the deal.

It's an interesting read... if you're truly interested in how we got from there to here. It also drive home the fact that the free market had next to nothing to do with it... dispite the repeated claims. We see again a govt created crisis lead to govt solutions.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

knothead wrote:Very interesting OS . . . . an anecdotal story that sheds some light on how we got where we are . . . . .where ya been lately?
Drove to New Mexico to visit my daughter and family. Trick or Treat with a 4 year old is a blast! Also been working on the single shotgun renovation in New Orleans. We're still at the 2x4 and 2x6 framing stage. The house is 75 years old. Termites have taken their toll. Now we're repainting and repairing a rental here.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:
knothead wrote:Very interesting OS . . . . an anecdotal story that sheds some light on how we got where we are . . . . .where ya been lately?
There's much more to it. From union risk pools to the advent of ss to direct govt involvement though veteran coverage and more via subsidy and edicts. FDR was very active... there were nearly countless interventions. The fifties sealed the deal.

It's an interesting read... if you're truly interested in how we got from there to here. It also drive home the fact that the free market had next to nothing to do with it... dispite the repeated claims. We see again a govt created crisis lead to govt solutions.
This country is in a unique position for sure when it comes to how we have set up our health care/insurance system.

My concept of a free market system, realizing we don't have one anyway, is that various companies compete against each other for the customers money. In the case of the insurance industry I really didn't see such a dynamic in play until the insurance exchanges were put in place. These may help bring down premiums.

It looks more as if the companies spend their energy figuring ways to deny services and increase profits. Now they can only keep 20% of the premiums people pay. I thought the whole idea of insurance was to create a pool of money that, over time would be big enough to cover the needs of those who had paid into it.

The companies were supposedly taking a risk by offering coverage. It doesn't seem to be much of a risk if they can just raise their rates whenever they need more money. People are caught in a system that basically insures the insurance companies and not so much their own health care needs.

I'm not saying this is a horrible or a great system but it is the one we have now. What are the insurance companies doing for us that they deserve a profit for? Couldn't the government take over the whole operation (no pun intended) and administer health care payments the same way they now do Medicare? I hear the overhead on Medicare is not bad although this may not be "knowable". I Googled overhead costs Medicare vs Private Insurance and came up with so many conflicting articles I didn't even get into it. Statistics…

Of course if you want to get all conspiracy theory about this I suppose a case could be made that this entire ACA adoption was only a way to focus the publics attention on the mess the insurance companies have gotten us into and a way to move eventually to a single payer system. Maybe this is all just a plot to move in that direction?

Guest


Guest

I'm bored from saying it... but I think it's designed to fail. The competition was always limited through a collusion between govt and ins corps... look at the regulations that allowed only limited ins options in a state and restricted competition across state lines. I'm sorry... but I'm tired of pointing out the obvious and don't give a damn anymore... nobody really cares about the big picture or context behind each crisis. Gawd we're dumb.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:I'm bored from saying it... but I think it's designed to fail. The competition was always limited through a collusion between govt and ins corps... look at the regulations that allowed only limited ins options in a state and restricted competition across state lines. I'm sorry... but I'm tired of pointing out the obvious and don't give a damn anymore... nobody really cares about the big picture or context behind each crisis. Gawd we're dumb.
I agree. This system is rigged in favor of the big dogs, no doubt about it. That's why they fought the ACA so strenuously. What significant portion of our economy is NOT rigged anymore? We're toast.

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