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Trouble on Palafox? ....Impossible.........

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Joanimaroni
2seaoat
TEOTWAWKI
Hospital Bob
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Guest


Guest

from Ricks Blog

And lastly we are also hearing the Downtown Improvement Board has let two employees go – Gallery Night/Palafox Market manager Hilary Gilles and Office manager Gloria Heckman. We’ve heard at least one DIB board member complain about the Palafox Market calling it a “loser.” Not sure if that had anything to do with it.

The recent influx of new businesses on Palafox has split the customer base. Several business owners are privately talking about how business is down. The DIB needs to focus on drawing more people downtown to its restaurants, galleries, retail shops and bars. Not sure the mayor, his staff or the council are aware of the problem. The “Great Street” is on a thin lifeline.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Turn it into permanent gallery night.  That's the only time I spend money downtown.  And 3 dollar beers from those folk aint bad considering what the going festival price is for beer.
If Stooder is subsidizing it he's my hero.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

But if he makes my property taxes go up, then he's a *%$%*%$*'er. Subidized beers or not.

Guest


Guest

I dont think the story is true. There is no way downtown could be losing business. After all we have the worlds best baseball park, the worlds best Olive Oil store/cafe, a fleet of wonderful High tech food trailers, and the world class fish House restaurant. Just more of the naysayers dribble trying to discredit a a successful venue. Stories like this can only bring harm and discord to the city. All is great in Pensacola. We have no problems or issues.
I bet the next lie will be that the CMPA is losing money. Shame on Ricks Blog for printing such a story.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

It's all drying up. The last city standing will be DC because they stole all the money...tough huh ?

2seaoat



I think the illusion of sanity is easily created on the horizon. It flickers and sometimes almost makes sense, and then you find out is was simply a mirage. That some of the people you have discussed issues with are like that mirage......not really all there. I guess that is a great deal like a downtown area in America. It is either getting stronger or it is getting weaker. That same mirage of a downtown is created by some folks who want it so bad to be reality, or maybe it is reality, and the mirage is only in the minds of those folks who are distrubed......like downtown Pensacola could never be successful, and all of America is simply drying up because sadly there are some very old folks on this forum who are in fact drying up, so the mirage they see on the horizon was this mystical combination of a dream of what was and the anger that they are now dried up old people .....without the hope and aspirations of youth.....just broken down viewing the horizon as a world that passed them up.........yep the illusion of sanity is easily created on the horizon.

or maybe sometimes a business just fails.....you know like old people.

Guest


Guest

it is easy for people who ignore the facts to believe in a illusion. There are people who truly believe that a magician can make a elephant disappear in front of their own eyes. Or believe the TV preacher can make them rich by giving them all their money. Then there are those who believe you can build on a sand bar with out any issues. They really believe this and invest millions of dollars in their beliefs. If a person dares to question their illusion they are quickly labeled a fool and a non believer. They say " I have money, I have power, I am the ruler of the universe, therefore I am correct in my beliefs" "I can just will it so.
Such people will pump money into a dead horse to complete the illusion that the horse is really alive. But then reality starts to set in. The horse is dead. He starts to stink. But they are not to be denied. They blame the dead horse on those who pointed out the obvious. They shout " How dare You!! The horse was really alive until you said something." They truly believed in their own Illusion.
Then are those who look at a ball Park that sits empty most of the year. They are sure that this concrete structure is causing the entire surrounding area to be wealthy and prosperous. How dare you say different, they say. Just wait. You shall see that it is not an illusion....We are doing just fine. Sure people maybe leaving the city and businesses are failing but just wait....The fucking dead horse will win the Kentucky derby, just wait and see, ye of such shallow faith.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Mr Ichi wrote:it is easy for people who ignore the facts to believe in a illusion.  There are people who truly believe that a magician can make a elephant disappear in front of their own eyes.  Or believe the TV preacher can make them rich by giving them all their money.  Then there are those who believe you can build on a sand bar with out any issues.  They really believe this and invest millions of dollars in their beliefs.  If a person dares to question their illusion they are quickly labeled a  fool and a non believer.  They say " I have money, I have power, I am the ruler of the universe, therefore I am correct in my beliefs"  "I can just will it so.
Such people will pump money into a dead horse to complete the illusion that the horse is really alive. But then reality starts to set in.  The horse is dead. He starts to stink.  But they are not to be denied.  They blame the dead horse on those who pointed out the obvious.  They shout " How dare You!!  The horse was really alive until you said something."  They truly believed in their own Illusion.
Then are those who look at a ball Park that sits empty most of the year. They are sure that this concrete structure is causing the entire surrounding area to be wealthy and prosperous.  How dare you say different, they say.  Just wait.  You shall see that it is not an illusion....We are doing just fine.  Sure people maybe leaving the city and businesses are failing but just wait....The fucking dead horse will win the Kentucky derby, just wait and see, ye of such shallow faith.
That is worthy of the Mark Twain award if there was such a thing...well written.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Great post.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Mr Ichi wrote:it is easy for people who ignore the facts to believe in a illusion.  There are people who truly believe that a magician can make a elephant disappear in front of their own eyes.  Or believe the TV preacher can make them rich by giving them all their money.  Then there are those who believe you can build on a sand bar with out any issues.  They really believe this and invest millions of dollars in their beliefs.  If a person dares to question their illusion they are quickly labeled a  fool and a non believer.  They say " I have money, I have power, I am the ruler of the universe, therefore I am correct in my beliefs"  "I can just will it so.
Such people will pump money into a dead horse to complete the illusion that the horse is really alive. But then reality starts to set in.  The horse is dead. He starts to stink.  But they are not to be denied.  They blame the dead horse on those who pointed out the obvious.  They shout " How dare You!!  The horse was really alive until you said something."  They truly believed in their own Illusion.
Then are those who look at a ball Park that sits empty most of the year. They are sure that this concrete structure is causing the entire surrounding area to be wealthy and prosperous.  How dare you say different, they say.  Just wait.  You shall see that it is not an illusion....We are doing just fine.  Sure people maybe leaving the city and businesses are failing but just wait....The fucking dead horse will win the Kentucky derby, just wait and see, ye of such shallow faith.
Trouble on Palafox? ....Impossible......... Dead-horse

Guest


Guest

Trouble on Palafox? ....Impossible......... Article-1314281-0B335A2E000005DC-517_634x575
Trouble on Palafox? ....Impossible......... Painted-Wine-Optical-Illusion
Trouble on Palafox? ....Impossible......... Bayfrontstadium

Nekochan

Nekochan

Mr Ichi wrote:it is easy for people who ignore the facts to believe in a illusion.  There are people who truly believe that a magician can make a elephant disappear in front of their own eyes.  Or believe the TV preacher can make them rich by giving them all their money.  Then there are those who believe you can build on a sand bar with out any issues.  They really believe this and invest millions of dollars in their beliefs.  If a person dares to question their illusion they are quickly labeled a  fool and a non believer.  They say " I have money, I have power, I am the ruler of the universe, therefore I am correct in my beliefs"  "I can just will it so.
Such people will pump money into a dead horse to complete the illusion that the horse is really alive. But then reality starts to set in.  The horse is dead. He starts to stink.  But they are not to be denied.  They blame the dead horse on those who pointed out the obvious.  They shout " How dare You!!  The horse was really alive until you said something."  They truly believed in their own Illusion.
Then are those who look at a ball Park that sits empty most of the year. They are sure that this concrete structure is causing the entire surrounding area to be wealthy and prosperous.  How dare you say different, they say.  Just wait.  You shall see that it is not an illusion....We are doing just fine.  Sure people maybe leaving the city and businesses are failing but just wait....The fucking dead horse will win the Kentucky derby, just wait and see, ye of such shallow faith.
cheers cheers cheers

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

Joanimaroni wrote:Great post.
It would make a great "Viewpoint" in the PNJ.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

It would.

Mr. Itchi..........do you hear that?

Guest


Guest

I might....It is getting quite a few likes on my facebook page...But people do not like their illusions disturbed. It is their reality...

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Mr Ichi wrote:I might....It is getting quite a few likes on my facebook page...But people do not like their illusions disturbed.   It is their reality...
As the Forum Nazi I order you to post it on ze Viewpoint !... there vill be consequences if you don't...

2seaoat



Reality is in excess of 300k attendance. There is no illusion. Those are real people seeking pleasure in a normal healthy activity which contributes to the debt service on a park that the people own and their grandchildren will not have the bayfront cut off from public use because the waterfront was privatized. Yep, Earl fought for the 13 miles of the national seashore to be preserved for the public, and he fought for maritime park, and in fifty years that will not be an illusion when the public still can enjoy the same. It will be reality.

Guest


Guest

It will be reality.

Might be one day, but it damn sure aint now. LOL

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Hey someday it will make a good staging area for the trip to the FEMA camps....see there is a bright side.

Guest


Guest

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Hey someday it will make a good staging area for the trip to the FEMA camps....see there is a bright side.
Too much debris and old railroad cars and pilings in the water for boats to get close.  They will have to march everyone over to the port where the folks at the Fish house can watch.  Of course the name will changed to the FEMA House.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

I used to work downtown in the 1980's.  Today, when I go downtown, I see much more activity...some of the old businesses closed, for one reason or another.  By comparison, today's downtown Pensacola is thriving...If there are impediments to progress, many of them originate with the DIB, whose main mission it seems is charging everyone the max they can get for parking...to me, a major turnoff for any downtown event.

Didn't find the link to your post, Ichi, but I found this:

http://ricksblog.biz/palafox-market-director-fired-but-the-event-will-continue/

In small room in the Rhodes Building, over 30 people attended the Nov. 5 meeting of the Downtown Improvement Board. Many were vendors at the Palafox Market, the DIB’s outdoor market held every Saturday morning on North Palafox Street.

They learned that Hillary Gilles, the manager of both Palafox Market and Gallery Nights, and the DIB office manager, Gloria Heckman, had been terminated last Friday, Nov. 1.

The audience was told that there were no plans to do away with the market, and all five board members–John Peacock, Teri Levin, Corbett Davis, Bernie Merrill, Susan Hatler and Brian Spencer–voiced their support for the popular event.

However, they refused to discuss the terminations. The executive director said that he was rewriting the job descriptions and looking at how to improve workflow in the office.

Executive Director Ron Butlin said, “The DIB, myself and the board, are very excited about the market. It has been a great success and continues to be a success. It continues to grow. The board is very committed to the continuation of the market.”

The board members agreed with his statements.

Eric Schmidt, Gilles’ husband, asked, “Why don’t you explain to the people exactly what was done to Hillary? Instead of just saying she’s no longer with the market.”

Chairman Corbett Davis said, “Right now it’s not something we can discuss. Her leaving is still in negotiation.”

Schmitt said, “But she didn’t leave.”

The chairman recommended people talk with Butlin in private. He promised that her dismissal would be explained at a future date.

Deborah Dunlap said that she had sent an email prior to the Palafox Celebration to Butlin, Davis and Mayor Ashton Hayward.

“In that email, I stated to the mayor that, while his heart was in the right place, it was a mistake not to include Hillary,” said Dunlap, who owns several buildings on Palafox Street. “In the American Planners Association statement as to why we were named one of the top 10 streets in America, two events were mentioned–Palafox Market and Gallery Night. Both of these events have been orchestrated and run, pretty much single-handedly, by Hillary Gilles.”

She said that she had hoped that Hillary and the DIB staff would be recognized and commended for their efforts at today’s meeting. With emotion in her voice, Dunlap said, “You could have knocked me over with a feather when Sandra called me and told me that she was fired. That’s all I want to say.”

Guest


Guest

Thanks for the link.  I am not saying that downtown is a dead zone.  I just think it will hard to really grow with system we have in place.  The DIB has been a cancer for many years.  It is the same old stuff.  I am going to support Charles Bare in his run for Mayor.  He might not be any better but I like his style.  We shall see.   IMHO I think we soon will see some movement on the CMPA with Reeves at the wheel.  The downtown area should be discussed.  I know I am over the top on somethings but the silence on downtown issues is deafening .

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

But wait...there's more:

http://pensacolad3.blogspot.com/2013/11/dib-fires-100-of-paid-staff-pnj.html

(Maren DeWeese's blog)

Monday, November 4, 2013

DIB Fires 100% of paid staff. PNJ reports...Nothing
One week after winning an award for the Palafox corridor, DIB Executive Director Ron Butlin terminated both of his employees on Friday.

Did you read about it in the PNJ. Nope. 100% gone.

Did anyone ask:
Why?
Who will replace them?
Who will be the point of contact going forward?
Crickets!

Here are a couple of documents we will need going forward.

State of Florida Formation Documentation

By Laws

DIB_FY_2013_Budget

2014 Strategic Overview

I looked at the strategic overview. It doesn't mention gut the organization.

Interlocal forthcoming for the City to manage? Another place to allocate overhead?

---------------

(comment by C J Lewis):
CJ Lewis said...
If the Pensacola DIB is a 501(c)(4) non-profit corporation, why is there no mention of it on Florida's Division of Corporations website? There is a record of a "Pensacola Downtown Development, Inc." at 11 West Romana Street from 1962 to 1981. It is Inactive having been Involuntarily Dissolved.

Where are the Articles of Incorporation for the Pensacola Downtown Improvement Board? The DIB's website says it is "an independent state agency." What is it?

For a start, the City needs to terminate its interlocal agreement for downtown parking management and set the DIB adrift to fend for itself.

The draft 2014 Strategic Overview says that property owners "voluntarily agree to pay an extra 2 mills in property tax to fund the DIB's activities." Is that true – the ad valorem property tax is voluntary?

In addition, why is the Executive Branch appointment not made? It is described in Section 5.(a) of the DIB Act. Use of the word "shall" sounds mandatory to me. Why does Hayward refuse to comply with State law?

Which parts of Section 3.(b) to (d) have not been accomplished? The City Council needs to ask the Florida Legislature to update the DIB Act to reflect the Mayor's removal from the Governing Body of the City or just go all the way and ask them to abolish to DIB.

As for Hayward's plan to gut the DIB, on page 72 of the URAC Final Report, Hayward recommends, "Encourage the DIB Board to voluntarily downsize the DIB staff to one coordinating clerical position (Ron Butlin?), a primary liaison organizationally housed within the Mayor's office. The DIB Board's primary responsibility would then be to make recommendations to the Mayor [not the City Council that approves the DIB budget] for the disbursement of DIB revenues."

Hayward then refers to the DIB staff as "an attendant bureaucracy that has caused such controversy."
November 4, 2013 at 6:48 PM

And then Mr. Lewis said:
Anonynmous #1 - Public payroll abuse? That seems like a very specific criminal charge. Care to provide your real name and specifics on the record or are you a coward? Hilary never had a raise for five years until two weeks ago. Two months ago her hours were increased from 30 hours to 40 hours? So, in the last two months, Hilary gets more hours and a raise and then last Friday is sacked without explanation and told to sign a four page document saying she had resigned, would not sue the DIB and would not show the document to anyone. And you think this is right? Moreover, exactly what is the new direction for Palafox Market & Gallery Night, the two things for which Hilary was responsible and which by all accounts are a booming success? And why sack the Office Manager too? What was her crime? Did you also not like her face? Will we be seeing younger, cuter faces and slimmer waistlines in your new DIB employee workforce? Ashton Hayward and Brian Hooper wrote in the URAC report that these people were going to lose their jobs and they did. Coincidence? Lastly, why are you opposed to functional consolidation of local governments? The DIB is not a "government of perpetual existence." At any time, the downtown property owners can get together and form their own voluntary merchants association. Now that the legislative purposes of the DIB Act have been accomplished, why should the DIB continue to exist exercising the powers of the City government? What can the DIB do that the City government (Mayor, City Council and City staff) cannot do? Nothing, nothing at all.


-----------------

More comments, but go to the link and read them. Apparently, an anonymous source believes that the plan is to move the Palafox Market to the CMP site...and the Mayor wants to disband the DIB (wants the parking revenues for the City?...wants leeway to move the Palafox Market to the CMP?)

Great move...firing the person who does all the work making Gallery Night and the Palafox Market a success. Good grief.


Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Mr Ichi wrote:Thanks for the link.  I am not saying that downtown is a dead zone.  I just think it will hard to really grow with system we have in place.  The DIB has been a cancer for many years.  It is the same old stuff.  I am going to support Charles Bare in his run for Mayor.  He might not be any better but I like his style.  We shall see.   IMHO I think we soon will see some movement on the CMPA with Reeves at the wheel.  The downtown area should be discussed.  I know I am over the top on somethings but the silence on downtown issues  is deafening .
I'm interested, Ichi. I agree about the DIB, but something stinks here. It appears that the only person who gave heart and soul to both projects has been canned for no reason. What kind of "movement" did you mean, with Reeves at the wheel? A bowel movement?

cool1

cool1

Bob wrote:But if he makes my property taxes go up,  then he's a *%$%*%$*'er.  Subidized beers or not.
So true Laughing 

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