Now he blames the bad apple insurance company's

PkrBum wrote:I think some of you should see sunstein's book "nudge"... there are no unforseen consequences occurring.

I've actually already read that book. Have you?

boards of FL wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I think some of you should see sunstein's book "nudge"... there are no unforseen consequences occurring.

I've actually already read that book. Have you?

Yes... we've discussed this before.

PkrBum wrote:I think some of you should see sunstein's book "nudge"... there are no unforseen consequences occurring.

Control is effective ownership... where's that damn nazi hunter when you need him?

Tell us everything Glenn Beck has taught you about this Sunstein monster.

lol

Nekochan wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:I don't blame him for what the greedy insurance companies do. When are you going to put the blame where it belongs?

OK, Dreams, I think you're missing something here...
Who lied to Americans about this--Obama or insurance companies?

I think you're missing the point. You want to diss Obama about this but the facts are people in group plans are keeping their insurance. The people in individual plans are not being changed by Obama but the insurance companies. When Obama said they could keep their plans they could have if the insurance co.'s hadn't cancelled. They chose not to update them...not Obama.

LOL, Dreams.  You asked me h

ow Obama knew 3 years ago and I gave you a link to a news article that explains how he knew. Now you say that he didn't lie?

Obama did not say--If you like your insurance plan and it doesn't change anything about it--you can keep it.    

Obama said--If you like your insurance, you can keep it. PERIOD.  He went all over the country giving this promise to Americans.   

No one else on here, even other liberals, seem to disagree with the obvious point that Obama wasn't completely honest!

Correct. He did say that,however wasn't that before the insurance co.'s decided to cancel the policies? Why are you blaming Obama for something the insurance co.'s did? This is what I'm asking. You all are trying to say he deliberately decieved the American public which is incorrect. The insurance co's decided to cancel policies.

OK, Dreams.  Whatever you want to believe.  Now it's being reported that 93 million Americans might lose their plans.  I guess none of the problems with Obamacare  are Obama's fault.

No, they're are not.You just want them to be. The insurers made that decision and you can read the transcripts of his interview w/ Diane Sawyer on what he said rather than jumping to the conclusion he lied. He did not and you are trying to blame the wrong person.

Sal wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I think some of you should see sunstein's book "nudge"... there are no unforseen consequences occurring.

Control is effective ownership... where's that damn nazi hunter when you need him?

Tell us everything Glenn Beck has taught you about this Sunstein monster.

lol

Read the book... it's everything you ever wanted to know about progressive socio-economic steering... but were afraid to support openly. He does a great job... really makes it sound ethical... almost a gift to mankind. But it requires the power of govt... no matter how benign and benevolent he wraps it. I've never followed beck btw.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/29/this-is-why-obamacare-is-cancelling-some-peoples-insurance-plans/

Read the whole article then tell me who's fault it is.

" Some -- or maybe even most -- of the plans offered on the individual insurance market right now don't meet certain requirements in the health-care law. They may not offer preventive care without co-payment,for example,or leave out coverage of maternity care,one of the health-care law's 10 essential benefits."

It's just a little nudge in the direction chosen by our dear leaders. But on the bright side... Sal w now have maternity care.

[quote="boards of FL"]Republicans on healthcare in the 1990s:  What we need is a mandate, I tell ya!  A "free market solution"!  No need for single payer or any other socialist crap!  Mandate!  Free market solution!

Republicans on healthcare today:  A mandate is basically socialism!  We have moved so far left that we may as well be communists!  The government has completely taken over the healthcare industry as we know it!  Giving people subsidies to buy insurance in the free market is a redistribution of wealth and cheats the rich!

Republicans on everything else today :  What we need is a system that gives people subsidies so that they can buy stuff in the free market!  The government shouldn't be involved in retirement (social security) or healthcare (medicare)!  Give them subsidies and let them go out and buy whatever plan they choose!  This is the free market solution!  This is what makes America great, I tell ya!

Republicans ten years from now on everything else (after axing social security and medicare):  What?!?!  What the...?!?  We're going to give people subsidies to buy stuff in the free market!?! Wha....BUT THAT'S COMMUNISM!!! WE HAVE MOVED SO FAR LEFT AT WE ARE BASICALLY COMMUNISTS!!! AH!!![/quote


###
AND, in a FAIR VOTE, it did not pass.  Please show your link to exactly what was proposed or are you reading from the DailyKOS or DemocratUnderground?

Dreamsglore wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:I don't blame him for what the greedy insurance companies do. When are you going to put the blame where it belongs?

OK, Dreams, I think you're missing something here...
Who lied to Americans about this--Obama or insurance companies?

I think you're missing the point. You want to diss Obama about this but the facts are people in group plans are keeping their insurance. The people in individual plans are not being changed by Obama but the insurance companies. When Obama said they could keep their plans they could have if the insurance co.'s hadn't cancelled. They chose not to update them...not Obama.

LOL, Dreams.  You asked me h

ow Obama knew 3 years ago and I gave you a link to a news article that explains how he knew. Now you say that he didn't lie?

Obama did not say--If you like your insurance plan and it doesn't change anything about it--you can keep it.    

Obama said--If you like your insurance, you can keep it. PERIOD.  He went all over the country giving this promise to Americans.   

No one else on here, even other liberals, seem to disagree with the obvious point that Obama wasn't completely honest!

Correct. He did say that,however wasn't that before the insurance co.'s decided to cancel the policies? Why are you blaming Obama for something the insurance co.'s did? This is what I'm asking. You all are trying to say he deliberately decieved the American public which is incorrect. The insurance co's decided to cancel policies.

OK, Dreams.  Whatever you want to believe.  Now it's being reported that 93 million Americans might lose their plans.  I guess none of the problems with Obamacare  are Obama's fault.

No, they're are not.You just want them to be. The insurers made that decision and you can read the transcripts of his interview w/ Diane Sawyer on what he said rather than jumping to the conclusion he lied. He did not and you are trying to blame the wrong person.

OK, Dreams.  And when 90+ million Americans lose their plans, you can say it has NOTHING to do with Obamacare!

ppaca wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/29/this-is-why-obamacare-is-cancelling-some-peoples-insurance-plans/

Read the whole article then tell me who's fault it is.

It is well known that medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US.  

This link suggests that 2/3rds of those bankruptcies are filed by people who have health insurance.  If you have health insurance, and yet your medical debt is still piling up to the degree that you are filing bankruptcy, wouldn't it be fair to conclude that your health insurance is inadequate?

It seems counterproductive to set the bar so low that a healthcare plan that would not prevent bankruptcy could be considered a legitimate plan, doesn't it?


I'd like to add a disclaimer here and say that I am for single payer, or at least the originally proposed public option.

I don't blame him for what the greedy insurance companies do. When are you going to put the blame where it belongs?[/quote]OK, Dreams, I think you're missing something here...

Who lied to Americans about this--Obama or insurance companies?[/quote]I think you're missing the point. You want to diss Obama about this but the facts are people in group plans are keeping their insurance. The people in individual plans are not being changed by Obama but the insurance companies. When Obama said they could keep their plans they could have if the insurance co.'s hadn't cancelled. They chose not to update them...not Obama.[/quote]

You just can't make these things up!

ppaca wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/29/this-is-why-obamacare-is-cancelling-some-peoples-insurance-plans/

Read the whole article then tell me who's fault it is.

Ok-I read the article and it doesn't say anything different than what's been said. The question was did Obama lie to the people? The answer is no. Your comparison doesn't carry any weight. The standards for insurance were broadened and the companies CHOSE not to comply and cancelled. So who's fault is that?
That's like the FDA saying you now have to include labels on your drug bottles and the drug companies saying "no, we're not going to do that" and fold up.

But don't you believe that a person should be able to purchase according to their needs? Come on, why should a 60 yr old female or a gay male have to include maternity on their plans? It should have been a pick a choose what a person wanted on a plan with an extra cost for each one. If someone did not any of the 10 essential health benefits then their premiums should be dirt cheap. This is govt telling us they know what's best for us just like they always have. I do agree everyone should have some kind of degree of health coverage, but one size does not fit all.

boards of FL wrote:

ppaca wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/29/this-is-why-obamacare-is-cancelling-some-peoples-insurance-plans/

Read the whole article then tell me who's fault it is.

It is well known that medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US.  

This link suggests that 2/3rds of those bankruptcies are filed by people who have health insurance.  If you have health insurance, and yet your medical debt is still piling up to the degree that you are filing bankruptcy, wouldn't it be fair to conclude that your health insurance is inadequate?

It seems counterproductive to set the bar so low that a healthcare plan that would not prevent bankruptcy could be considered a legitimate plan, doesn't it?


I'd like to add a disclaimer here and say that I am for single payer, or at least the originally proposed public option.

That is a FLAT OUT LIE.

That study was based on old information. MORE IMPORTANTLY, if someone had $250,000. in liens, debts and whatever, plus a single lien of $1,000.00 (ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS AND NO/100) the individual doing the study considered that to me a MEDICAL RELATED BANKRUPTCY.

The person behind the study...ELIZABETH WARREN.

Come back and try again!

Nekochan wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:I don't blame him for what the greedy insurance companies do. When are you going to put the blame where it belongs?

OK, Dreams, I think you're missing something here...
Who lied to Americans about this--Obama or insurance companies?

I think you're missing the point. You want to diss Obama about this but the facts are people in group plans are keeping their insurance. The people in individual plans are not being changed by Obama but the insurance companies. When Obama said they could keep their plans they could have if the insurance co.'s hadn't cancelled. They chose not to update them...not Obama.

LOL, Dreams.  You asked me h

ow Obama knew 3 years ago and I gave you a link to a news article that explains how he knew. Now you say that he didn't lie?

Obama did not say--If you like your insurance plan and it doesn't change anything about it--you can keep it.    

Obama said--If you like your insurance, you can keep it. PERIOD.  He went all over the country giving this promise to Americans.   

No one else on here, even other liberals, seem to disagree with the obvious point that Obama wasn't completely honest!

Correct. He did say that,however wasn't that before the insurance co.'s decided to cancel the policies? Why are you blaming Obama for something the insurance co.'s did? This is what I'm asking. You all are trying to say he deliberately decieved the American public which is incorrect. The insurance co's decided to cancel policies.

OK, Dreams.  Whatever you want to believe.  Now it's being reported that 93 million Americans might lose their plans.  I guess none of the problems with Obamacare  are Obama's fault.

No, they're are not.You just want them to be. The insurers made that decision and you can read the transcripts of his interview w/ Diane Sawyer on what he said rather than jumping to the conclusion he lied. He did not and you are trying to blame the wrong person.

OK, Dreams.  And when 90+ million Americans lose their plans, you can say it has NOTHING to do with Obamacare!

The debate was about Obama lying,wasn't it? And you are correct. The drug companies decided to pull their plans. They could have incorporated the new requirements but chose not to.

PkrBum wrote:I think some of you should see sunstein's book "nudge"... there are no unforseen consequences occurring.

Control is effective ownership... where's that damn nazi hunter when you need him?

YES!

     

Dreamsglore wrote:

ppaca wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/29/this-is-why-obamacare-is-cancelling-some-peoples-insurance-plans/

Read the whole article then tell me who's fault it is.

Ok-I read the article and it doesn't say anything different than what's been said. The question was did Obama lie to the people? The answer is no. Your comparison doesn't carry any weight. The standards for insurance were broadened and the companies CHOSE  not to comply and cancelled. So who's fault is that?
 That's like the FDA saying you now have to include labels on your drug bottles and the drug companies saying "no, we're not going to do that" and fold up.

From the inside in the insurance company's were mandated by ACA that his is law, isn't it? What don't you understand about that?

BTW wait until your group renewal in 2014 (unless your employer eats the cost) and at some point the employer is going to pass it on. Right now they are set to go up around 30-60%. One of my group renewals for Dec 1, has a 60% rate increase and it ain't even 2014.

ppaca wrote:But don't you believe that a person should be able to purchase according to their needs? Come on, why should a 60 yr old female or a gay male have to include maternity on their plans? It should have been a pick a choose what a person wanted on a plan with an extra cost for each one. If someone did not any of the 10 essential health benefits then their premiums should be dirt cheap. This is govt telling us they know what's best for us just like they always have. I do agree everyone should have some kind of degree of health coverage, but one size does not fit all.

Now you're talking about a different question. Are you saying there is no policies out there that you can exclude benefits you don't need?

Dreamsglore wrote:

ppaca wrote:But don't you believe that a person should be able to purchase according to their needs? Come on, why should a 60 yr old female or a gay male have to include maternity on their plans? It should have been a pick a choose what a person wanted on a plan with an extra cost for each one. If someone did not any of the 10 essential health benefits then their premiums should be dirt cheap. This is govt telling us they know what's best for us just like they always have. I do agree everyone should have some kind of degree of health coverage, but one size does not fit all.

Now you're talking about a different question. Are you saying there is no policies out there that you can exclude benefits you don't need?

Actually I was talking to boards but two were posted before I got this one in.

Don't you think insurance company's would have been happy not to rile up their policyholder's and lose them completely? Who do you think told them to comply?

ppaca wrote:But don't you believe that a person should be able to purchase according to their needs? Come on, why should a 60 yr old female or a gay male have to include maternity on their plans? It should have been a pick a choose what a person wanted on a plan with an extra cost for each one. If someone did not any of the 10 essential health benefits then their premiums should be dirt cheap. This is govt telling us they know what's best for us just like they always have. I do agree everyone should have some kind of degree of health coverage, but one size does not fit all.

If the leading cause of bankruptcy is medical debt, and if 2/3rds of those who file bankruptcy due to medical debt have health insurance, can we fairly conclude that they are even capable of purchasing according to their needs?

ppaca wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

ppaca wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/29/this-is-why-obamacare-is-cancelling-some-peoples-insurance-plans/

Read the whole article then tell me who's fault it is.

Ok-I read the article and it doesn't say anything different than what's been said. The question was did Obama lie to the people? The answer is no. Your comparison doesn't carry any weight. The standards for insurance were broadened and the companies CHOSE  not to comply and cancelled. So who's fault is that?
 That's like the FDA saying you now have to include labels on your drug bottles and the drug companies saying "no, we're not going to do that" and fold up.

From the inside in the insurance company's were mandated by ACA  that his is law, isn't it? What don't you understand about that?

BTW wait until your group renewal in 2014 (unless your employer eats the cost) and at some point the employer is going to pass it on. Right now they are set to go up around 30-60%. One of my group renewals for Dec 1, has a 60% rate increase and it ain't even 2014.

I understand that. I also understand the insurance co.'s decided they did not want to include those benefits. So what do you not understand about the insurance co's choice to fold the policies? They didn't have to. The govt. was making them provide adequate coverage and they don't want to.

Markle wrote:That is a FLAT OUT LIE.

Not is isn't. You see, my response to you has just as much substance as your response to me.

ppaca wrote:But don't you believe that a person should be able to purchase according to their needs? Come on, why should a 60 yr old female or a gay male have to include maternity on their plans? It should have been a pick a choose what a person wanted on a plan with an extra cost for each one. If someone did not any of the 10 essential health benefits then their premiums should be dirt cheap. This is govt telling us they know what's best for us just like they always have. I do agree everyone should have some kind of degree of health coverage, but one size does not fit all.

No, I don't believe people should be allowed to purchase according to their needs. They won't do it. My son has a policy that barely covers anything because it's cheap. Should he have a serious accident who do you think is going to pay for that? Not his policy.That's for sure. People must be forced to do the right thing just like car insurance.No difference.

Dreamsglore wrote:

ppaca wrote:But don't you believe that a person should be able to purchase according to their needs? Come on, why should a 60 yr old female or a gay male have to include maternity on their plans? It should have been a pick a choose what a person wanted on a plan with an extra cost for each one. If someone did not any of the 10 essential health benefits then their premiums should be dirt cheap. This is govt telling us they know what's best for us just like they always have. I do agree everyone should have some kind of degree of health coverage, but one size does not fit all.

No, I don't believe people should be allowed to purchase according to their needs. They won't do it. My son has a policy that barely covers anything because it's cheap. Should he have a serious accident who do you think is going to pay for that? Not his policy.That's for sure. People must be forced to do the right thing just like car insurance.No difference.

People must be forced to do the right thing???? That is just wrong on so many levels.