Top 25 Hidden Gem Rental Markets

And Escambia and Santa Rosa counties are both on the list

http://www.realtytrac.com/Content/foreclosure-market-report/top-25-hidden-gem-single-family-rental-markets-7877

My rental houses went from 1200 a month to 1000 or 900. Some were brand new houses. I sure do not see the average at 1300. Rental demand is not real high as there still is excess inventory in both counties.

I was hoping to get some responses on what y'all think about the rental market in the area now.  We sold our Pensacola rental several years ago.   We sold our Huntsville house (Madison County, also on the list) this past summer, before we moved to Orange Park.   So when I read this story I was thinking that we're a day late (early?) and a dollar short, lol.   But the Huntsville house...I loved that house and I told hubby that I absolutely did NOT want to rent it.   So we staged it ourselves and sold it to the first person who looked at it on the first day it was on the market.   Hubby talks about eventually renting out this house that we're in now (again)....but I am not sold on that idea.  I'm tired of calls/emails about problems with houses and tenants. And I'm tired of paying too much for stuff because we are not there to take care of the problems ourselves.

I have two different real estate agents manage the rental houses. It works pretty good and we pay 10% of the rents. The houses are cash flowing, but our plan was to build and sell......then retire. Market forces and illness have a way of taking precedent.

Our property manager here in OP was good.  She stayed on top of problems and took care of things for us pretty well.  But I know that we still paid thousands of dollars for things that hubby could have fixed for very little if we had been here in the area.

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:We want out of the rental business. Nothing but a headache. We have half a duplex that I bought 33 years ago, when I got stationed here to be a flight instructor at Whiting Field. It has been a rental since 1984, and I paid the mortgage off in 1990. I have had great tenants and horrible ones. I had one tenant in 2000 who briefly stayed there with his pregnant wife, and turned the place into an indoor marijuana growing operation. I later learned that the place was dubbed "Weedy World" by my tenants' customers. My best tenants were friends of my daughter from UWF. Three different sets of her friends lived there over a 5 year period, and we always got the rent check before the 1st of the molnth--nobody else ever paid as promptly as they did.

We have already fully depreciated the place, so if we sell, the tax hit will be large. Se la vie.....

I hear ya....Move into the duplex for a couple of years before selling it. Rent out the house you're living in now.....

The most heartbreaking thing I was told was that one of our tenants had to sell her wedding ring to make the last month's rent.  They wanted out of the lease without paying the penalty.  Of course, I let them out of the lease...they had been good tenants before one of them lost their job.

Another rental we have had Russians in it...they left in the middle of the night.  lol.  

Another left the place a mess.  The property manager wanted to take them to court.  I said no--there was no point in that as we'd never recover anything from them. I told him just to keep their deposit.

We have already fully depreciated the place, so if we sell, the tax hit will be large. Se la vie.....



You need to talk to a 1031 like kind exchange expert. You can avoid capital gains treatment by doing a simultaneous or Starker exchange, and I am seeing people who are turning brick and mortar investments into REITs which are readily traded and can provide you with income. You also can do some estate planning where the kids could get that investment with a stepped up basis with no tax consequence at all. When I hear people complain about our tax system they in most cases need to get some help on some very lucrative options.

I've read a little about exchanges...but wouldn't you need to buy yet another property to do that?

2seaoat wrote:We have already fully depreciated the place, so if we sell, the tax hit will be large. Se la vie.....



You need to talk to a 1031 like kind exchange expert.  You can avoid capital gains treatment by doing a simultaneous or Starker exchange, and I am seeing people who are turning brick and mortar investments into REITs which are readily traded and can provide you with income.  You also can do some estate planning where the kids could get that investment with a stepped up basis with no tax consequence at all.  When I hear people complain about our tax system they in most cases need to get some help on some very lucrative options.

The people complaining about the tax system are not the lucrative folks. They are the middle class workers such as myself.

Your snobby high flalutin tax dodging self used to be one of those things that really pissed off the left, but since you sing the lefts song now, I guess you get a pass.

Im going to be buying a house in pcola next year, I need to make sure I don't buy one from seaoat.

Rich people always have more choices. Sometimes it takes spending money on something in order to preserve money.  Like the exchanges Seaoat mentioned.  I think you have to buy another property to do an exchange. 

The wealthy will have more choices no matter what the government does. And if it gets bad enough, the wealthy will simply go someplace that's more accommodating to them.

Nekochan wrote:Rich people always have more choices. Sometimes it takes spending money on something in order to preserve money.  Like the exchanges Seaoat mentioned.  I think you have to buy another property to do an exchange. 

The wealthy will have more choices no matter what the government does. And if it gets bad enough, the wealthy will simply go someplace that's more accommodating to them.

I personally do not have issues with wealthy people, I think ive said that enough.

Im just pointing out who is having a issue with the tax code now, its middle class workers getting the screws.

I also point out that the left here have always enjoyed putting the screws to those who are wealthy, but seashit gets a pass because he sings their tune.

Chrissy wrote:

Nekochan wrote:Rich people always have more choices. Sometimes it takes spending money on something in order to preserve money.  Like the exchanges Seaoat mentioned.  I think you have to buy another property to do an exchange. 

The wealthy will have more choices no matter what the government does. And if it gets bad enough, the wealthy will simply go someplace that's more accommodating to them.

I personally do not have issues with wealthy people, I think ive said that enough.

Im just pointing out who is having a issue with the tax code now, its middle class workers getting the screws.

I also point out that the left here have always enjoyed putting the screws to those who are wealthy, but seashit gets a pass because he sings their tune.

Oh, me either. I don't have an issue with wealthy people so long as they follow the law and they aren't crooked in their dealings.   I hear about the rich getting "loopholes".  Well, if it's legal, it's legal.  If you pay your taxes, follow the tax code, I have no problem with that.  The term "loophole" makes it sounds like they are doing something that's wrong.   I think the whole damn tax system needs to be reformed but you'd be crazy not to get any credits or deductions or whatever that you are legally entitled to take. 

But if the rich get tired of all of the crap, they have choices that the rest of us don't have.  That's what I mean.  AND if the government is really concerned about greater financial equality, it needs to be concerned about trying to move people up out of poverty instead of trying to make everyone poorer.

The 1031 provisions are bought and paid for by a very successful real estate lobby. You cannot do the same on the stock market. Yes, you do have to find replacement property, but there are new entities who are specializing in non traditional exchanges. I have personally done about 8 exchanges which were traditional real estate 1031 exchanges. I know a farmer who had 80 acres in the early 90s. A developer wanted to put a subdivision in and paid him about 3 fold farmland prices and he like kind exchanged the farm into a 330 acre farm. Five years later he like kind exchanged that farm into 1000 acres. No taxes paid on any gain over about 15 years and farm income went from 10k a year to about 300k a year, and the tax man never got a dime of capital gains.

The farmers were overhauls and ford truck hard working people who had financial advisers who gave them great advice. With gifting and stepped up basis the grandchildren will own the farm tax free, and share in 300k income. I think we have too many tax avoidance legislative schemes and simply looking at the tax rates does no justice to the trillions which have been lost to the Government in revenues because of special interests laws. I make no apology for knowledge.

I would never expect an apology for knowledge any more than I would expect an apology from  someone for using a "scheme" or "loophole" that is totally legal and is written into the code for people to use.

I would never expect an apology for knowledge any more than I would expect an apology from someone for using a "scheme" or "loophole" that is totally legal and is written into the code for people to use.


The problem is that folks have no idea how many loopholes exist, and how much revenue is being lost. Both sides of the aisle know these loopholes need to be closed, yet they are talking about ending mortgage interest deductions while trillions have been lost on loopholes which are really only for the wealthiest Americans. Priorities must start at our tax code and loopholes and subsidy are a great starting point.

2seaoat wrote:The 1031 provisions are bought and paid for by a very successful real estate lobby.   You cannot do the same on the stock market.   Yes, you do have to find replacement property, but there are new entities who are specializing in non traditional exchanges.   I have personally done about 8 exchanges which were traditional real estate 1031 exchanges.  I know a farmer who had 80 acres in the early 90s.  A developer wanted to put a subdivision in and paid him about 3 fold farmland prices and he like kind exchanged the farm into a 330 acre farm.   Five years later he like kind exchanged that farm into 1000 acres.   No taxes paid on any gain over about 15 years and farm income went from 10k a year to about 300k a year, and the tax man never got a dime of capital gains.

The farmers were overhauls and ford truck hard working people who had financial advisers who gave them great advice.   With gifting and stepped up basis the grandchildren will own the farm tax free, and share in 300k income.   I think we have too many tax avoidance legislative schemes and simply looking at the tax rates does no justice to the trillions which have been lost to the Government in revenues because of special interests laws.   I make no apology for knowledge.

you have knowledge in this because its what you do.

you should afford people who do other things the same appreciation.

but again, you post above speaks out of both sides of your mouth. your condemning tax avoidance while offering a way to avoid it. lol funny really.

but again, you post above speaks out of both sides of your mouth. your condemning tax avoidance while offering a way to avoid it. lol funny really.




I use all my exemptions and tax credits. I do not necessarily agree that those are good for society. A budget is a societal set of priorities. We are confused as to our priorities. Elections have a way of reminding folks what people's priorities are. I hope we can look at all loopholes, and remove the most offensive ones. Until then I will follow the law and take my lawful deductions, credits, and exchanges.

2seaoat wrote:but again, you post above speaks out of both sides of your mouth. your condemning tax avoidance while offering a way to avoid it. lol funny really.




I use all my exemptions and tax credits.  I do not necessarily agree that those are good for society.   .

I know oat. Youre all for things that help you and you will give other people who have the same concerns about toher things, you know kind of like all the hell you've given me for being against obamacare when my profession took a 52% cut.

I'm not stupid. I understand very well what double standards are.

Nekochan wrote:I was hoping to get some responses on what y'all think about the rental market in the area now.  We sold our Pensacola rental several years ago.   We sold our Huntsville house (Madison County, also on the list) this past summer, before we moved to Orange Park.   So when I read this story I was thinking that we're a day late (early?) and a dollar short, lol.   But the Huntsville house...I loved that house and I told hubby that I absolutely did NOT want to rent it.   So we staged it ourselves and sold it to the first person who looked at it on the first day it was on the market.   Hubby talks about eventually renting out this house that we're in now (again)....but I am not sold on that idea.  I'm tired of calls/emails about problems with houses and tenants. And I'm tired of paying too much for stuff because we are not there to take care of the problems ourselves.

You have to be able to detach yourself from the old house completely. It be comes nothing but an asset and a part time job. Most likely you're not paying "to much" for "stuff" because you're paying for their transportation, fuel, licenses, expertise, insurance, parts use of their tools and other odds and ends.

If you're not into having a part time job, hire a reputable management company. In my opinion, it is one of the toughest jobs in the real estate profession. Personally, I HATE property management. I tried it for a while many years ago when times were lean and I learned that I would rather have a root canal. Now I have my own properties managed by someone else.

Markle wrote:

Nekochan wrote:I was hoping to get some responses on what y'all think about the rental market in the area now.  We sold our Pensacola rental several years ago.   We sold our Huntsville house (Madison County, also on the list) this past summer, before we moved to Orange Park.   So when I read this story I was thinking that we're a day late (early?) and a dollar short, lol.   But the Huntsville house...I loved that house and I told hubby that I absolutely did NOT want to rent it.   So we staged it ourselves and sold it to the first person who looked at it on the first day it was on the market.   Hubby talks about eventually renting out this house that we're in now (again)....but I am not sold on that idea.  I'm tired of calls/emails about problems with houses and tenants. And I'm tired of paying too much for stuff because we are not there to take care of the problems ourselves.

You have to be able to detach yourself from the old house completely.  It be comes nothing but an asset and a part time job.  Most likely you're not paying "to much" for "stuff" because you're paying for their transportation, fuel, licenses, expertise, insurance, parts use of their tools and other odds and ends.

If you're not into having a part time job, hire a reputable management company.  In my opinion, it is one of the toughest jobs in the real estate profession.  Personally, I HATE property management.  I tried it for a while many years ago when times were lean and I learned that I would rather have a root canal.  Now I have my own properties managed by someone else.

Yes, you're right, you have to detach yourself from a house in order to rent it to someone else.  I've done it with several houses, including the one we're living in now.   I didn't want to do it with the  Huntsville house for a number of reasons.  It just wasn't a "rental" house in my opinion, it was a house that someone should own.   Not sure if that makes any sense, but that was and is my feeling about it.  

When I say "pay too much"--yes there are times that we absolutely paid too much for things, especially in Pensacola, in the months after Ivan.   I understand and appreciate capitalism, supply and demand, and the fact that repair people have their own expenses and that their time and equipment are worth money.   But when you can do something yourself (if you were there) that would cost you $50-100 to do and that same job would normally cost around $200 to hire someone to do but then that same job cost $800-$1000 to hire someone to do after a hurricane...to me, that's "paying too much."   But when you live out of the country and you have a tenant in the house, you don't really have a choice.   Also, we had a property manager for our Pensacola house, in the years after Ivan, that wasn't so good at keeping on top of things.        With our house here in OP, there were times we could have done things ourselves for little cost/effort but when you can't do things yourself, you have to pay the market cost for having work done and as I said, our property manager here was pretty good about having good people do the work at a reasonable price.   I don't really have many complaints about that.  It just is what it is and it would have cost us less if we had lived in the area and was able to do some things ourselves.  It's something you have to think about when you become a landlord.

I don't EVER want to be a landlord again! I even have nightmares about it.

It worked out well in the early 90s when I cut my house in two. I rented the front and kept the back as a home base because I was doing a good bit of traveling. I had wonderful tenants all the way through.

However, after I reconnected the house and later began renting rooms, the experience was horrendous. I had a really crazy tenant who bluntly told me he was planning to do a "Pacific Heights" on me (look up the movie if you aren't familiar with it), and he almost did, thanks to the lack of help from the Pensacola Police Department. I had to leave my own house for three weeks and stay with my sister during the eviction process. Trust me when I say his "renter's rights" far exceeded my ownership rights, at least in the eyes of the PPD and whomever was the assistant AG at the time.

Never again.

EDIT: I don't think it's true, because the dude wasn't smart enough, but he even told me he had been planning the "Pacific Heights" scam before he even moved in. What a creep....and he seemed like such a "nice" guy.  

Good grief, PB.  I haven't seen the movie but I'm glad you're alive to tell us about it.  

Being a landlord isn't a walk in the park unless you have a long term tenant that pays the rent on time and takes reasonably good care of the place.

We still have one rental.  It's more than enough for me to worry about. For younger people who don't mind working weekends and getting their hands dirty, I think there are areas n the country where you can buy a house for cheap, fix it up, and rent it out and make good money on it.

Nekochan wrote:Good grief, PB.  I haven't seen the movie but I'm glad you're alive to tell us about it.  

Being a landlord isn't a walk in the park unless you have a long term tenant that pays the rent on time and takes reasonably good care of the place.

I was spoiled by the two sets of tenants who rented the front apartment over those years. I found out it's an entirely different ball game when you are renting rooms rather than apartments.

The tenant who rented the room fought the eviction (he wasn't going to leave), so I got what was then called a "repeat violence" protection order rather than a DV order. I can't say enough positive things about the way the Escambia County deputy handled it. That tenant was out of the house within 15 minutes of the deputy's arrival.

I learned during that period that a tenant living under the same roof can cover himself in black stuff (the stuff soldiers use to blacken their faces), accost you when you enter your own home, push you down on the couch and threaten to rip your throat out, and that's A-OK as long as he paid his rent.

The police kept telling me "Ma'am, he will have to actually DO something to you before we can arrest him. Threats don't count."

The judge who granted the restraining order for repeat violence saw it differently, thank goodness.

EDIT: Yeah, I suppose I'm still bitter about that whole experience.

PBulldog2 wrote:

Nekochan wrote:Good grief, PB.  I haven't seen the movie but I'm glad you're alive to tell us about it.  

Being a landlord isn't a walk in the park unless you have a long term tenant that pays the rent on time and takes reasonably good care of the place.

I was spoiled by the two sets of tenants who rented the front apartment over those years. I found out it's an entirely different ball game when you are renting rooms rather than apartments.

The tenant who rented the room fought the eviction (he wasn't going to leave), so I got what was then called a "repeat violence" protection order rather than a DV order. I can't say enough positive things about the way the Escambia County deputy handled it. That tenant was out of the house within 15 minutes of the deputy's arrival.

I learned during that period that a tenant living under the same roof can cover himself in black stuff (the stuff soldiers use to blacken their faces), accost you when you enter your own home, push you down on the couch and threaten to rip your throat out, and that's A-OK as long as he paid his rent.

The police kept telling me "Ma'am, he will have to actually DO something to you before we can arrest him. Threats don't count."

The judge who granted the restraining order for repeat violence saw it differently, thank goodness.

EDIT:  Yeah, I suppose I'm still bitter about that whole experience.

You weren't just threatened...you were assaulted! 

I understand tenants having rights...they should.  But threats are not acceptable.   Assault certainly isn't acceptable.