Is anyone familiar w/ the Magnuson Moss law on warranties?

I am in a dispute w/ AC Delco on a rack and pinion steering part I purchased from them and had installed by an ASE certified garage. The steering part has failed and although they will send another part the labor is as much as the part which I will have to pay again. AC Delco says they will only pay the labor if you had purchased the part from one of their service facilities and had them install it. Here is an except from the 1975 law. I am reading it to say you cannot require a consumer to purchase or service a product from them specifically if you provide a full warranty. Correct?

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions

Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.

While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.

While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.

Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.

You have identified a federal statute which could get you relief, but with filing fees and other costs which will occur when they defend your pleadings, you better have costs over 1k to justify suing them. You are correct in your reading of the statute and the example, but for such a small amount it makes no sense.

Go to Delco corporate information, and get the CEO and the board of directors names and addresses. Then write a letter asking to speak to the regional manager, because if you do not get a response you will be mailing each of the following a letter.... and only do this after you have the regional directors name which you will include in the letter to the board of directors and officers of Delco. You will get a compromised offer which is better than what you will get once in litigation because you are a squeaky wheel, litigation mode will have stop loss provisions which give little leeway on an offer.

It won't cost me 1k. Not even close. It will be about $60 for the filing fee. I have done it before on an insurance case. The problem is they are a huge corporation but they will have to hire an atty. to respond and/or come down here to Santa Rosa Co. It will go to arbitration first but it will end up much more than what they owe me for the labor costs even though I would include time lost from work. I checked w/ a couple of their facilities and the part and labor is enormously higher than the average garage. I'm not sure if they have a waiver from the FTC regarding using one of their facilities. It would seem improbable considering any ASE certified facility can put in a rack and pinion. I tried to contact the FTC today but wasn't successful. I want to clarify that before I decide to sue them.

How much was the part, and how much was the labor?

The part was over $400 and the labor was about $500. The price from their facility was over $1200.

Buy a better car.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Buy a better car.

Shut up lunatic fringe.

How reliable were the folks who installed the part, and how do you know the install did not cause the damage to the part?

I took my truck to the dealership and they concluded the part is failing on one side. There was no damage done to the part. The part started failing after about 6 weeks. All the parts now are mostly remanufactured.

Go to Delco corporate information, and get the CEO and the board of directors names and addresses. Then write a letter asking to speak to the regional manager, because if you do not get a response you will be mailing each of the following a letter.... and only do this after you have the regional directors name which you will include in the letter to the board of directors and officers of Delco. You will get a compromised offer which is better than what you will get once in litigation because you are a squeaky wheel, litigation mode will have stop loss provisions which give little leeway on an offer.

Years ago when I was in the mechanic business, the Zone Manager (Regional manger)was the man with the plan, If you could get to him, you usually got good results. I dont know where you bought the part but if it was somewhere like NAPA they might will help you

I only ask because you are basically dealing with gears which if in the install it is misaligned there will be damage. Do you have an expert who can narrow the damage to metal failure versus misalignment? I understand the idea of creating as much hassle for them hoping they will cave and pay, but you should have the parts which were taken out looked at by somebody who is willing to testify as to the cause of failure. These battles are always very unfair, but MM does bring some fairness to the process, and you do get your costs and attorney fees. However, they will stonewall on litigation because it could open a floodgate. So they are going to want to see some objective evidence of part failure which will require an expert. The idea that the arbitrator or eventually a judge or jury are going to simply agree with the conclusion that the part has failed without expert evidence is a stretch, and experts cost money unless your mechanic has some expertise and available resources in dye testing and ultrasonic testing which can show cracking and metal failure. It is a tough road, but if you are right.....you are right. However, be aware that they get real nervous settling a steering issue with a consumer, and then next week the same part fails and a family was killed. They simply can be dicks when it comes to litigation, and often will spend 10 fold what a fair settlement could have provided.

The part has to go back in order to get the core charge back. They take the old part back.

Does the mechanic who took the part out have experience and could he testify with clarity why the part failed? An example the base of the pinion had deep metal cracks throughout the part. Do they still have the part?

No one reads the fine print on a warranty. Undoubtedly the written warranty contained the provisions you are attempting to circumvent.

It seems that you wanted to save a few bucks by purchasing the part yourself and then having it installed by someone else.

You're trying to have the best of both worlds. You didn't pay AC/Delco for the install, or their approved companies, you paid someone else. See if that someone else will install this one for free. Oh...right...I think you said you bought the part yourself.

As they say...stuff happens. $500. is a lot of money but you took a chance and lost.

Markle wrote:No one reads the fine print on a warranty.  Undoubtedly the written warranty contained the provisions you are attempting to circumvent.

It seems that you wanted to save a few bucks by purchasing the part yourself and then having it installed by someone else.

You're trying to have the best of both worlds.  You didn't pay AC/Delco for the install, or their approved companies, you paid someone else.  See if that someone else will install this one for free.  Oh...right...I think you said you bought the part yourself.

As they say...stuff happens.  $500. is a lot of money but you took a chance and lost.

Guess what,dingleberry? This whole conversation was about the law and what they can't do so you should have read that part about the tie on's. Yes, I bought the part and had it installed by someone else. I have the right to have the part work.

Dreamsglore wrote:

Markle wrote:No one reads the fine print on a warranty.  Undoubtedly the written warranty contained the provisions you are attempting to circumvent.

It seems that you wanted to save a few bucks by purchasing the part yourself and then having it installed by someone else.

You're trying to have the best of both worlds.  You didn't pay AC/Delco for the install, or their approved companies, you paid someone else.  See if that someone else will install this one for free.  Oh...right...I think you said you bought the part yourself.

As they say...stuff happens.  $500. is a lot of money but you took a chance and lost.

Guess what,dingleberry? This whole conversation was about the law and what they can't do so you should have read that part about the tie on's. Yes, I bought the part and had it installed by someone else. I have the right to have the part work.

It is always extremely obvious when I have hit close to home. Why do you find it necessary to childishly call names?

And the company has said they will replace the part which did not work. Whether it was installed properly or not.

It is no fun to take a 500 buck hit, and everything you have posted on MM has been correct, but Hallmark is correct. You need to get to the right person before you file a lawsuit, and exhaust the possibility that they will install this for you. If you have lots of time on your hand, or you value your time at very little compared to the $500, a lawsuit might bring the desired result, but in the end if you feel they have been rude or you are certain that the part was faulty, sometimes regardless of how futile and unproductive a lawsuit is you must stand up for something when you are right.

Markle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Markle wrote:No one reads the fine print on a warranty.  Undoubtedly the written warranty contained the provisions you are attempting to circumvent.

It seems that you wanted to save a few bucks by purchasing the part yourself and then having it installed by someone else.

You're trying to have the best of both worlds.  You didn't pay AC/Delco for the install, or their approved companies, you paid someone else.  See if that someone else will install this one for free.  Oh...right...I think you said you bought the part yourself.

As they say...stuff happens.  $500. is a lot of money but you took a chance and lost.

Guess what,dingleberry? This whole conversation was about the law and what they can't do so you should have read that part about the tie on's. Yes, I bought the part and had it installed by someone else. I have the right to have the part work.

It is always extremely obvious when I have hit close to home.  Why do you find it necessary to childishly call names?

And the company has said they will replace the part which did not work.  Whether it was installed properly or not.

You haven't hit close to home. It is always annoying when someone tries to place the blame on something else. The garage I use has installed hundreds of rack and pinions.The parts are remanufactured. If the part was installed incorrectly it wouldn't even work. Replacing the part is not good enough when you have to pay for reinstallation through no fault of your own.

2seaoat wrote:It is no fun to take a 500 buck hit, and everything you have posted on MM has been correct, but Hallmark is correct.   You need to get to the right person before you file a lawsuit, and exhaust the possibility that they will install this for you.  If you have lots of time on your hand, or you value your time at very little compared to the $500,  a lawsuit might bring the desired result, but in the end if you feel they have been rude or you are certain that the part was faulty, sometimes regardless of how futile and unproductive a lawsuit is you must stand up for something when you are right.

I don't have any intentions of bringing expert witnesses or going to that length. AC Delco is not going to hire an atty. for so little of a claim in another state and I know that.The suit would be about requiring the part to be installed by their facility which is against the Magnusson Moss law.

AC Delco is not going to hire an atty. for so little of a claim in another state and I know that.

They do it all the time. Filing an appearance and pulling a canned motion to dismiss is not a big deal, but I guess I look at $500 dispute not really belonging in court, but if the people have been dishonest or rude with you I understand why you might want to proceed. Also, you could be completely correct in your assumptions. My time at this point is far too precious to be messing in court over 500 bucks.

You're being a jerk seagoat... go play poker or sumthin.

You really think they're going to spend thousands of dollars to fight such a small claim when the law clearly says you cannot require a tie on?

You really think they're going to spend thousands of dollars to fight such a small claim when the law clearly says you cannot require a tie on?

The problem is not your case. Certain lawyers have hooked on to MM over the last 30 years, and particularly in car cases. They get their attorney fees paid for the smallest claim, so as a result many of the manufacturers have a take no prisoner attitude. They will waste 10k to kill a claim and any attorney who is trying to advance the same better on the merits win, or they take a huge hit. This is an across the board strategy. You must have a case you can win before you file. If you think they will simply roll over because it will cost them 1k, you do not understand the war they face every day under MM, and the floodgates of litigation which would follow if every lawyer thinks they can get 2k attorney fees for filing a 500 buck dispute.

PK, I am not being a jerk. I have advised to try to settle this without going to the time and expense of litigation. I have been honest and hopefully helpful, but if you think I am being a jerk here, then you must subscribe to the idea that litigation is smart in this case. I think it is a bad idea and even if Dreams does this pro se,she will not get her time compensated, and if giving my opinion is being a jerk.......then I guess I am a jerk.

It isn't necessarily the information... it's the eroding tone and the fact that your input simply required a post or two.

2seaoat wrote:AC Delco is not going to hire an atty. for so little of a claim in another state and I know that.

They do it all the time. Filing an appearance and pulling a canned motion to dismiss is not a big deal, but I guess I look at $500 dispute not really belonging in court, but if the people have been dishonest or rude with you I understand why you might want to proceed.  Also, you could be completely correct in your assumptions.   My time at this point is far too precious to be messing in court over 500 bucks.

This is the reason we have small claims court. Years ago when a guy hit my car totaling it, the insurance adjuster wanted me to take a thousand dollars less than the car was worth. We argued, I wrote a letter arguing my case and he still refused. So I said to hell w/ this I'm going to sue you. He said go ahead. I did.I went down filed my little paper and paid the $60. Four days later the supervisor called and said the check was in the mail for more than I was asking for.
Many years ago after I got divorced I got stuck w/ all the debt in the marriage because all the credit was in my name. This lawyer in Tallahassee dunned me for 4 years freezing my bank account, trying to take wages and filing interrogatories every year. All for $1500 on a credit card. I finally researched the bankruptcy laws, filed my own bankruptcy and was done w/it. My credit was good after two years and I even refinanced my house. It was worth the time and effort.