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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » BREAKING: Detroit files for bankruptcy

BREAKING: Detroit files for bankruptcy

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knothead
Sal
Floridatexan
TEOTWAWKI
Slicef18
Markle
2seaoat
Hospital Bob
boards of FL
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boards of FL

boards of FL

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/18/news/economy/detroit-bankruptcy/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Thank god I got rid of those municipal bonds a long time ago. I knew that sooner or later this was gonna start happening. And I will be very surprised if Detroit is the last one.

Guest


Guest

I've told the story many times... having followed it for years. The classic liberal slow death... soon forgotten and repeated.

2seaoat



The real constitutional question is: Can States fall within the jurisdiction of the bankruptcy courts?

Some legal scholars argue no on constitutional grounds, and others argue it can on constitutional grounds. If a state which faces unfunded liabilities, were to file bankruptcy, the Supreme Court would have to give immediate cert because the melt down could be devastating. A plan which only paid government retirees 75% of their retirement benefits, and called for funding of the plan in part from increased state revenue sources including increased taxes, would raise some great constitutional arguments, but in state's who have intentionally given government employees huge pensions which cannot be sustained by current revenue or investment return.......there may be no other solution. At least 10 states face serious pension obligations which technically make them bankrupt right now.

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:The real constitutional question is:   Can States fall within the jurisdiction of the bankruptcy courts?

Some legal scholars argue no on constitutional grounds, and others argue it can on constitutional grounds.    If a state which faces unfunded liabilities, were to file bankruptcy, the Supreme Court would have to give immediate cert because the melt down could be devastating.   A plan which only paid government retirees 75% of their retirement benefits, and called for funding of the plan in part from increased state revenue sources including increased taxes, would raise some great constitutional arguments, but in state's who have intentionally given government employees huge pensions which cannot be sustained by current revenue or investment return.......there may be no other solution.  At least 10 states face serious pension obligations which technically make them bankrupt right now.

Detroit is a CITY.  They are $18 BILLION in debt.  A single Bankruptcy judge will have total, 100% control over the liquidation and cuts.  Retirees could easily see far less than 50% of their expected retirement.  Someone who had bought a Detroit City Bond for $1,000.00 MAY get $5.00 or $10.00 when all is said and done.

That is going to cut the income of retirees all over the country.

Just as is being done by the United States, Detroit kept kicking the can of fiscal responsibility down the road to the next administration who did the same.

Progressives, look at Detroit and see the future of the U.S. President Barack Hussein Obama's same management style and what you love as well.

BREAKING: Detroit files for bankruptcy Detroit

Slicef18

Slicef18

When one looks at the population and demographics it's not surprising. A lot of people taking out of the pot and few putting into the pot.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Slicef18 wrote:When one looks at the population and demographics it's not surprising. A lot of people taking out of the pot and few putting into the pot.

Isn't that the same scenario for the country as a whole?

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:I've told the story many times... having followed it for years. The classic liberal slow death... soon forgotten and repeated.

 In 2012:...The cowh---"we refused to let Detroit go bankrupt"....He further claimed that if elected Romney would allow Detroit to go bankrupt....

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Crank up the printing press they're to big to fail Damn-it.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

PkrBum wrote:I've told the story many times... having followed it for years. The classic liberal slow death... soon forgotten and repeated.

Disaster capitalism...pillage, slash and burn...then move on to the next target.

Sal

Sal

I blame Ted Nugent.

Guest


Guest

Take him to Detroit clip (from the Kentucky Fried movie)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDDYQlmq0w

2seaoat



I blame me......after 35 years of buying American cars.....I bought a car 100% built in Japan. Detroit has less to do with the progressive myth, than it has to do with economic dislocation where an entire city's economy was based on one industry......you know those silver and gold ghost towns.....progressives caused that crash. The auto industry had nothing to do with it.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote: The auto industry had nothing to do with it.

So it's your opinion that in the 80's the Detroit carmakers were putting out quality that was as good as the imports?

My cousin was a franchised car dealer selling GM and Chrysler. He told me that the transmissions were so bad in the early 80's Chryslers that he was afraid to drive a new Chrysler off the lot for fear it would break down.

Sal

Sal

My neighbor just got a Volt.

Sweet ride and also very stylish.

I think I'll stick with my Prius and Altima for now, but a Volt may be in my future.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Damn Sal,  why didn't you tell me and seaoat you were driving a gay car like we are.
what model year is yours and what mpg are you getting?

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:Damn Sal,  why didn't you tell me and seaoat you were driving a gay car like we are.
what model year is yours and what mpg are you getting?

Yeah, I just got a new one a few weeks ago.

My first one was metallic blue, so it was reeeeallly gay.

The new one is a kinda smoky gray color so it's still gay, but not as flamboyantly gay as the first one.

lol

knothead

knothead

Bob, that was then and this is now . . . . Detroit's demise we are witnessing is the aftermath of the butt kicking imports gave our domestic manufacturers but today they are gaining market share because of both innovation and streamlining of a top heavy business model. It will take years to recover to the gilded age we remember . . . . . maybe never but we are seeing successes and we should celebrate them.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

knothead wrote:Bob, that was then and this is now . . . . Detroit's demise we are witnessing is the aftermath of the butt kicking imports gave our domestic manufacturers but today they are gaining market share because of both innovation and streamlining of a top heavy business model.  It will take years to recover to the gilded age we remember . . . . . maybe never but we are seeing successes and we should celebrate them.

I know they're better than they were,  knothead.  But they stepped on their dicks so hard back then that they lost me for good.  I've never owned a Japtrap that wasn't built like a swiss watch and was just as reliable.
And that's coming from somebody who is old enough to remember a time when anything with a "made in japan" label on it was as crappy as the china stuff of today.

knothead

knothead

Bob wrote:
knothead wrote:Bob, that was then and this is now . . . . Detroit's demise we are witnessing is the aftermath of the butt kicking imports gave our domestic manufacturers but today they are gaining market share because of both innovation and streamlining of a top heavy business model.  It will take years to recover to the gilded age we remember . . . . . maybe never but we are seeing successes and we should celebrate them.

I know they're better than they were,  knothead.  But they stepped on their dicks so hard back then that they lost me for good.  I've never owned a Japtrap that wasn't built like a swiss watch and was just as reliable.
And that's coming from somebody who is old enough to remember a time when anything with a "made in japan" label on it was as crappy as the china stuff of today.

*****************************************************

I don't disagree but I have a sick allegiance (or guilt) to buying American made when I can justify it. Check out the new Grand Cherokee Summit as it ranks right up there in quality with the best. We currently drive a Suburban, a 4x4 Dodge truck and a Grand Cherokee. I admit I am envious of the mpg all you commies who have defected and drive around for practically nothing.Cool 

2seaoat



Detroit had a population of almost 1.9 million during the boom of 1945 to 1955 when most of the world's cars were being built in one city. As our post world domination began to change as German and Japanese plants were modern and high quality products began to trickle into America as imports......Detroit and the car jobs began to disappear. Detroit now has a population of about 700k and the story of Detroit is less about political philosophy and more about economics. A silver boom town, or a 50 year boom in manufacturing where there is little diversification never bodes well when all your eggs are in one basket.

I bought my first Japanese car in 1976. It was a Honda Civic. It was amazing, but after I was rear ended and the car was crushed and I barely escaped with my life, I bought American cars for the next 35 years which were larger, and like you said.....not as good quality as the Honda Civic. As Americans began buying imports, the car production dropped like a rock in Detroit and its suburbs. First, you had Nissan going to Jackson, Mercedes in Montgomery, Hyundai in Montgomery, Saturn in Nashville, Chrysler in Belvidere, mitsibushi in Bloomington, and on and on.........the diversification of production in America was one thing, but the percentage of Korean, German, British, Italian, and Japanese cars in the American Market now are almost half of the Market which once was exclusively Detroit's own market.

This idea that progressives can change the comparative advantage of a city in a world market is an interesting fantasy. The truth is that from the ruins of World War 2 emerged a modern auto industry which simply changed the economics of the city of Detroit. No political philosophy was going to change the loss of comparative advantage of Detroit and the suburban Detroit plants. The labor pricing, capital investment, tariffs, and minimal costs in transport took the economy of scale of fifty years of Detroit and stood it upside down. I know that ghost town by the silver mines died because of progressive policy, the beaver hat industry in London, the clothing industry in NY city, the mills in South Carolina, and the death of the pony express.....have one common denominator.......progressives.

Sal

Sal

knothead wrote:Check out the new Grand Cherokee Summit as it ranks right up there in quality with the best.  We currently drive a Suburban, a 4x4 Dodge truck and a Grand Cherokee.  I admit I am envious of the mpg all you commies who have defected and drive around for practically nothing.Cool 

Jeez.

How much does it cost to fill up those behemoths, Knothead?

Guest


Guest

The product was regulated into an inferior good in the seventies... the labor shot themselves in the foot... then went ahead and shot themselves in the other foot. The city busted just like all manipulated bubbles... there is no mystery. No need to create a convoluted excuse... no revision... look at the result and follow it logically to the root causes. Capitalism created a great city... liberalism progressively destroyed it.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI



GM has been paying my ex father in law a full pension and medical since he retired 30 years ago at about 55 years old during a downsizing. I am sure that bleeds them. Guess that is one reason car manufacturing moved to Mexico...

..I get 80 mpg on my Yamaha Virago ...the downside is death by behemoth. Still I love to ride cheap so if I quit posting for a long time ...well, Wish they could make motorcycles safer.

2seaoat



Capitalism created a great city... liberalism progressively destroyed it.


That is a funny story. Capitalism in its purest form is driven by market forces, not political forces.

Capitalism is an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital assets and goods, and the creation of goods and services for profit. In a capitalist economy, prices are determined primarily through competition in a market economy.

A closed and captured market is a capitalist dream come true, but if the the central tenet of the concept is competition in a market economy, and that closed market becomes a world market........there will be economic dislocation as there always has been as capital assets are invested for the greatest return, and the world market prices goods and services which immediately competed with the closed American Auto market with the virtual monopoly of one city. The destruction of Detroit is a direct result of the capitalistic system where through competition other factories worldwide and within the United States were able to be more productive and put our higher quality goods at lower prices. The capitalistic system worked great for consumers who through competition had real cost of auto drop, but the vertical integrated Detroit machine was doomed as the supply and demand for their products was changed not by a political system, but by the greater productivity of others in a now free market which was not a closed market.

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