Aircraft carrier at maritime park?

An effort has been launched to bring the Forrestal, a decommissioned aircraft carrier, to Pensacola.
It was taken out of service in 1993 and is set to be scrapped.

Channel Three's Joe Douglass talked with organizers of the plan and a veteran who once served on the ship.

Imagine the one-thousand foot aircraft carrier sitting right here in the waters next to Community Maritime Park.
Supporters of the project say that could bring a lot of money to Pensacola.

Mark Taylor, Restore Forrestal Project: "It's just a community treasure. It's an American treasure."
Mark Taylor is a local businessman and nominee for the Community Maritime Park Associates Board of Trustees.

He's excited about the plan, which he's planning to pitch to the city council, Congressman Jeff Miller and just about anyone else who will listen.

Mark Taylor, Restore Forrestal Project: "To have it her in the Cradle of Naval Aviation would be a huge win."

Taylor has joined forces with the USS Forrestal Association.
The three-thousand member group has been struggling for decades to obtain the super-carrier, which was commissioned in 1955.

Jim Brussell, USS Forrestal Veteran: "We would love to see it as a museum, especially, Pensacola, Florida, because that was its last duty station."

Jim Brussell is the treasurer for the USS Forrestal Association.
He served aboard the carrier in 1967 when a fire killed 134 of his fellow sailors in waters off Vietnam.

Jim Brussell, USS Forrestal Veteran: "It'll be a day I never forget, definitely a tragedy, and the worst tragedy is they're trying to scrap the USS Forrestal."

The association estimates it would cost about 30-million dollars to make the Forrestal into a museum.
They say the project could be paid for in part with BP Restore Act funds heading our way.

Taylor is set to make a presentation to the City Council on Tuesday.
They'll decide how or if they want to move forward with the plan.

I think it would be a good idea... if it was parked on the East side of the park. If it was parked at the South end, it would block the million-dollar view from the ballpark and park.

Sure, it would cost a bunch of money, but it would be a touristy thing... as opposed to a YMCA, for instance.

Put it in brownsville and use it as a crack house.

Sure, it would cost a bunch of money, but it would be a touristy thing... as opposed to a YMCA

A big thumbs up. Pensacola can have the Y and an aircraft carrier. I agree with Eric that the East side would be the spot, but you can bet there are going to be some neighbors who will not be happy on the East side.

To put a 1000 foot carrier on the south side, or even east side would block the views of the bay.....this is a home run for Pensacola.....especially if the BP fine money which should really be going to the trust fund for future oil spills which do not involve a deep pocketed defendant....but hell.....who said politics was fair......lets get a carrier and put the maritime museum on part of the flight deck.....second level.

[b]My bet is on Brownsville..........Texas not Florida.....[b]The baseball stadium ate our lunch. Much infrastructure would be needed, and beside I bet Quint would not like it. We shall see. If they can figure out away around the "Jones act" maybe, if not then a big No...



This fall, the U.S. Navy will contract three Cold War-era aircraft carriers — the USS Forrestal, the USS Saratoga and the USS Constellation — for scrapping. Often called "supercarriers" owing to their massive size, the ships contain nearly 60,000 tons of steel and other metal each.

All three carriers are likely to be sent to the landlocked city of Brownsville, Texas, to be ripped apart.

The deepwater Port of Brownsville lies inland at the end of a 17-mile channel connecting to the Gulf of Mexico. The long channel provides unparalleled protection from hurricanes and tropical storms.

In the past two decades, the city has become the center of the U.S. ship-recycling industry. Five of the nation's eight recycling companies are here. It's like Home Depot locating right next to Lowe's and Ace Hardware.

Tearing up big ships can be a lucrative business. It's also a messy one. Walk inside a ship that's being scrapped, and you'll find one of the nastiest places imaginable: filthy and rusty, with everything that's poisonous and salvageable torn out.

If it has rained, everything's all wet, too. Brush up against a bulkhead and you can kiss a white shirt goodbye.

But if you're a ship cutter, this is your office, and your cutting torch, your music to work by. Sixty cutters are employed here at Bay Bridge Texas, but even more will be hired soon.

Enlarge image
A tanker ship waits to be recycled. Even ships that appear to be in good working condition are valuable as scrap metal.

Michelle Lopez for NPR
Bay Bridge Texas is the nation's newest ship-recycling yard, says senior Vice President Barry Chambers. The company, backed by Indian investors with deep pockets, just moved to Brownsville from Chesapeake, Va.

Chambers says the infrastructure, the deep water channel and the weather all make the Texas city particularly attractive for his company. But building the yard, he says, still required plenty of work.

"This land did not look like this," Chambers says. "I put in 175,000 cubic yards of fill, leveled and compacted it."

Now, the yard's piers are built to handle ships as large as aircraft carriers. The pilings, made of steel cores, sink 60 feet deep.

From a distance, the tanker ship at the dock looks as though giant Post-It notes have been slapped onto the hull. But those squares are actually holes; the ship's been turned into Swiss cheese for ventilation and light.

Sergio Cazeres, who's been cutting ships since 1992, says the first cuts are made in the side of the ship. "In the hulls, we make cuts so the air can flow in," he says. "If it's too hot then we provide fans."

Recycled ships are typically scrapped from the top down and from front to back. As the steel is harvested, the bow lightens, and powerful winches begin to pull the ship out of the water and up a ramp.

Large white air bags, supporting 250 tons of weight, are rolled underneath.

Chambers says he moved from Virginia to Texas not just for the warm weather and infrastructural perks, but also for the labor pool. He pays between $10 and $13 an hour for the recycling work.

"The Hispanic workforce that I found here is excellent," Chambers says. "It's attitude more than anything. Every day here is different. This is not an assembly line job, and everyday you have to use your wits."

Enlarge image
A ship cutter helps dismantle a ship at the Bay Bridge Texas recycling yard.

Michelle Lopez for NPR
In a nation hungry for working-class jobs, ship recycling is helping to drive Brownsville's economy — even at these relatively low wages. Nearly 1,000 welders scrap 80 percent of the ships recycled in the U.S.

After a ship is dismantled, the metal is shipped to Mexico. Chambers used to send much of his steel to the city of Monterrey in railroad cars — 20 boxcars per train, loaded with 60 tons of steel in each.

But that steel had a market value of 10 to 15 cents per pound. And eventually, the boxcars began showing up in Mexico empty.

Chambers has no idea how the bandits were doing it. "It's unbelievable," he says.

It was no small feat to rip out the steel, Chambers says. "We've even tried welding the steel in there. Then we tried welding bars across the top of it, but it still disappeared."

So now, the steel goes by barge, and the shipments arrive intact. A few months later, they come back into the U.S. as automobile frames, engines and parts to be assembled here.

It's the large availability of ships to be recycled that drives the industry. And as the nation's reserve fleet of aging warships and tankers has become too old to use, those ships are increasingly being sold for scrap.

The price for steel has decreased in recent months with the slowing of the world economy. But that doesn't mean you can't make money breaking ships. Kris Wood, vice president of ESCO Marine, says ships still yield plenty of other valuable elements.

"There's a percentage makeup of nonferrous metals: That's your coppers, your brass, monels that are higher value," Wood says. "So, if the scrap market is down but the ship is still very rich in nonferrous metals, the project can still be a lucrative one."

Back on board at Chambers' yard, the ship cutters remove everything of value — the furniture, the plumbing, the fixtures, the lighting — and sell it. A shopper can get some good deals — if they're open to a nautical theme.

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I hope Pensacola gets it, but I am afraid Hallmark is right.

Look at Corpus Christi, Texas with the Lexington. Many of their functions mirror the Naval Air museum. I dont think the Navy would go for it. They might not say any thing openly but they have people who know people,. Can we support 2 Military Museums? How about parking? There is none and when the BLue Wahoos are playing there is even less. Remember Studers building and the YMCA both will require more parking. Nope we have chosen our path. Now we must live with it.

Park something bigger than this between Studdervile and Port Royal? LOL sure...

It would have been nice if we could have kept the Lex here. She was a part of Pensacola for so long, it was sad to see her go.

Yes, it is a shame Pensacola lost the Lexington.

The Alabama has done well in Mobile, and a carrier would be a no brainer if the money for the same was coming from BP......you could run a ferry between the beach, museum, and the park........this has a huge upside. You make a fertile garden and plant a few seeds......

2seaoat wrote:The Alabama has done well in Mobile, and a carrier would be a no brainer if the money for the same was coming from BP......you could run a ferry between the beach, museum, and the park........this has a huge upside. You make a fertile garden and plant a few seeds......

The USS Alabama is way to hell out away from every thing so they could grow and lots of space for their Museums, parking , static displays,the USS drum. They did not build it next to their baseball stadium.

In recent years, Alabama has been occasionally used as a hurricane shelter. During Hurricane Katrina, Alabama suffered damage which resulted in an eight-degree list to port,[6] and shifting at her permanent anchorage. (The families of 18 museum employees were aboard during Katrina.[6]) In addition, the Aircraft Pavilion was severely damaged, with three of the exhibited aircraft destroyed. At the end of 2005, damage estimates were in excess of US$4 million. The park reopened 9 January 2006, with the ship having a three-degree list (which was still being corrected). The battleship, submarine, and Aircraft Pavilion are all open. BTW The Alabama is permanent berthed.

Yomama wrote:Sure, it would cost a bunch of money, but it would be a touristy thing... as opposed to a YMCA, for instance.

Touristy?

People are going to decide Pensacola is their destination for the summer or vacation based upon the FID being moored here? LOL.

A boat is a hole in the water in which you throw money. Multiply this times 1000 (as in how long it is) and you get the idea.

hallmarkgrad wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

Yomama wrote:Sure, it would cost a bunch of money, but it would be a touristy thing... as opposed to a YMCA, for instance.

Touristy?

People are going to decide Pensacola is their destination for the summer or vacation based upon the FID being moored here? LOL.

A boat is a hole in the water in which you throw money. Multiply this times 1000 (as in how long it is) and you get the idea.

No they decide to visit because we have AA baseball team. Didnt you get the memo?

The maintenance in the FID, which didn't just go into mothballs, would be enormous.

But we could have a bar onboard and dwarf tossing on the flight deck....please please .....

[quote="TEOTWAWKI"]But we could have a bar onboard and dwarf tossing on the flight deck....please please .....[/quote]


Now Ya talking!! Let the "Tail hook" guys run it......

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The Tailhook scandal refers to a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted at least 83 women and 7 men.(WTF?), or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada. The events took place at the 35th Annual Tailhook Association Symposium from September 8–12, 1991. The term can also refer to the resulting investigations conducted by the Department of the Navy and the Inspector General of the Department of Defense.

As a result of the subsequent investigations, a number of officers were formally disciplined or refused advancement in rank. Controversially, military officers and observers have alleged that flag officers attending the symposium were not held accountable for knowingly allowing the behavior in question to occur. Military critics claimed that the scandal highlighted a hostile attitude in US military culture towards women in the areas of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and equal treatment of women in career advancement and opportunity. Lieutenant Gary Mandich, who was one of the many attendees and alleged participants in the lewd activities, told media, "Everyone needs to seriously lighten up. What do they expect? This is Vegas baby! They call this symposium "Tail" hook for a reason!"

His statement lead to a wave of public outcry which sparked numerous protests and demonstrations at the gates of naval bases across the U.S. Various Women's advocacy groups such as the National Woman's Party (NWP) were among some of the most vocal demonstrators.

The only thing that keeps Pensacola from an economic meltdown is the Navy. I would love to see it here.

The entire center of the nation taking a week long vacation to disney world and who drives the family will come down the 65 corridor and go right by Pensacola. My daughter will be taking her kids to disney world next year....as will a great many families. Pensacola when discovered by America can be a once a year destination. When my kids were given the choice of a week on the beach or a week at Disney.....they always chose the beach. The historic downtown, the museum, the beach, and yes.....Maritime Park will lead to a downtown hotel.....a ferry can tie it all together. Sometimes you need to just keep putting one foot in front of the other when climbing a hill....some will tell you the peak is too far.....they may be right, but quitters never reach the top and this city seems to have put quitting on the back burner. Bp money could be the salvation and final link in the journey. A carrier in Maritime is a home run.....

Now the question is.....how long has this attempt to get the carrier been known......and how does this interface with the urgency of the Y.....things are going to get interesting.

Maybe it was because I was in the Navy but when I visited battleship park I was bored after about 5 minutes.....lots of walking.... lots of gray....maybe we should have a Bellingrath garden with lots of pretty flowers since women usually run the vacation.....

We are broke.

Should be.....but the Dixiecrats who now call themselves republicans have no problem spending money on criminal fines collected which used to go in a trust fund and were applied to oil spills in the future when the perp did not have deep pockets. Nope, like good Daley Democrats which is really what they are......you scratch my back I will scratch your back.....they have pooled their clout together just like the good old days when they moved up the democratic power structure and secured bases....nope.....they now have it where the area is going to get 80% of the money from the fines which should have gone to the trust fund.....but heck.....they call themselves Republicans....they vote against Sandy, but pull Mayor Daley machine politics to change the rules and let state and local folks raid the kitty...you know good old fashion fiscal conservative Republican stuff......not.......but hell it will bring a lot of money to the area which should never be spent in this way, and I figure to the victor goes the spoils.....but please do not tell me about being conservative....please spare me that illusion.......so when the yellowstone oil spill requires funds from the general fund because the criminal fines have not filled the coffers.....please do not tell me about cutting SS or medicaid....please spare me that charade.