Which is worse? Obamacare or this bunch of thieves?

Floridatexan wrote:
Yella, did you check out this companion article?

http://www.businessinsider.com/whats-wrong-with-the-healthcare-system2010-3?op=1

Yella wrote:http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-15-health-care-big-wigs-who-cant-sleep-because-of-health-care-reform-2010-3?op=1

As they suck in millions their main responsibility is denying care to clients as long as possible.

othershoe1030 wrote:Like most people I've been listening to discussions about health care reform and know that one of the provisions in the ACA is that insurance companies must now pay out at least 80% of the money they take in to provide actual health care services to their clients. It seems the companies have been keeping a lot more than this. Isn't a 20% profit enough? Here's an article from Forbes from December 2011. There is a lot of hope in it that we will be moving toward a single payer system, which is the only way to really bring down cost. http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-buried-in-obamacare-explodes-today-halleluja/

Yella wrote:Which is worse? Obamacare or this bunch of thieves?

ButtMan wrote:

Yella wrote:Which is worse? Obamacare or this bunch of thieves?

According to this, they're pretty much both the same thing.

http://www.rooseveltinstitute.org/new-roosevelt/obamacare-health-insurance-subsidy-not-health-care-reform

Of course sean hannity and markel and brother carl and brother karl (Rove) and romney and palin and ed schultz and keith overman and obama and paloosi and reid will tell you one is god and one is the devil. One is black and one is white. One is night and one is day. One is commie and one is capitalist. One is queer and one is straight.
But of course that's just bullshit.

alecto wrote:Insurance is the greatest scam of the 20th century. The 20% loss ratio should be applied to every single form of insurance. How many people remember Ivan and all the hurricanes of 2004. How many insurance companies royally screwed over their customers by not paying then dropping those customers. The entire insurance industry is designed to squeeze as much money as possible with out having to actually insure people. I despise going to the doctor because I know that afterwards I will have to battle the insurance company on what they will pay. They constantly change the rules and constantly are coming up with new ways to deny a claim. I had a geico agent try to deny a claim because I had 285/75 r15 tires on my truck instead of 275/75 r15 which were the factory tires and his client rear ended me. Somehow the 10cm difference in tire size cause his client to slide into me.

The problem is simple, good old fashion American greed. This is what ruins many private industries and this is exactly why there needs to be government intervention. I love capitalism and think it is great but unfortunately greed will dismantle it by forcing more government involvement and the free market capitalist bubbas have no body to blame but themselves.

I however do not think a single payer system is viable in the USA. The sheer size of the population, a completely failed immigration system, and far to many people living off of the government in some way shape or form will make it impossible. Not to mention factors like the American obesity rate (80%), Americans as a whole generally have unhealthy life styles. People love their freedom, the freedom to drink as much as you like, the freedom to gorge your self with big macs, the freedom to use tobacco or smoke pot. The freedom to do all of that (most all) is awesome and I love it but it will cause health issues that will have to be treated. Which will drive up cost dramatically. Spend any time in your local Walmart counting fat bodies and you will understand. Just my .02

alecto wrote: Insurance is the greatest scam of the 20th century. The 20% loss ratio should be applied to every single form of insurance. How many people remember Ivan and all the hurricanes of 2004. How many insurance companies royally screwed over their customers by not paying then dropping those customers. The entire insurance industry is designed to squeeze as much money as possible with out having to actually insure people. I despise going to the doctor because I know that afterwards I will have to battle the insurance company on what they will pay. They constantly change the rules and constantly are coming up with new ways to deny a claim. I had a geico agent try to deny a claim because I had 285/75 r15 tires on my truck instead of 275/75 r15 which were the factory tires and his client rear ended me. Somehow the 10cm difference in tire size cause his client to slide into me.

The problem is simple, good old fashion American greed. This is what ruins many private industries and this is exactly why there needs to be government intervention. I love capitalism and think it is great but unfortunately greed will dismantle it by forcing more government involvement and the free market capitalist bubbas have no body to blame but themselves.

I however do not think a single payer system is viable in the USA. The sheer size of the population, a completely failed immigration system, and far to many people living off of the government in some way shape or form will make it impossible. Not to mention factors like the American obesity rate (80%), Americans as a whole generally have unhealthy life styles. People love their freedom, the freedom to drink as much as you like, the freedom to gorge your self with big macs, the freedom to use tobacco or smoke pot. The freedom to do all of that (most all) is awesome and I love it but it will cause health issues that will have to be treated. Which will drive up cost dramatically. Spend any time in your local Walmart counting fat bodies and you will understand. Just my .02

Markle wrote:

alecto wrote: Insurance is the greatest scam of the 20th century. The 20% loss ratio should be applied to every single form of insurance. How many people remember Ivan and all the hurricanes of 2004. How many insurance companies royally screwed over their customers by not paying then dropping those customers. The entire insurance industry is designed to squeeze as much money as possible with out having to actually insure people. I despise going to the doctor because I know that afterwards I will have to battle the insurance company on what they will pay. They constantly change the rules and constantly are coming up with new ways to deny a claim. I had a geico agent try to deny a claim because I had 285/75 r15 tires on my truck instead of 275/75 r15 which were the factory tires and his client rear ended me. Somehow the 10cm difference in tire size cause his client to slide into me.

The problem is simple, good old fashion American greed. This is what ruins many private industries and this is exactly why there needs to be government intervention. I love capitalism and think it is great but unfortunately greed will dismantle it by forcing more government involvement and the free market capitalist bubbas have no body to blame but themselves.

I however do not think a single payer system is viable in the USA. The sheer size of the population, a completely failed immigration system, and far to many people living off of the government in some way shape or form will make it impossible. Not to mention factors like the American obesity rate (80%), Americans as a whole generally have unhealthy life styles. People love their freedom, the freedom to drink as much as you like, the freedom to gorge your self with big macs, the freedom to use tobacco or smoke pot. The freedom to do all of that (most all) is awesome and I love it but it will cause health issues that will have to be treated. Which will drive up cost dramatically. Spend any time in your local Walmart counting fat bodies and you will understand. Just my .02

The very first line rendered the rest of your rant worthless. It wasn't worth the two cents.

Yella wrote:cost. http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-buried-in-obamacare-explodes-today-halleluja/

I would guess this is why the Health Insurance Corporations have spent millions of dollars bribing our Congressmen and women with "Donations" to influence their votes in regard to all things Obamacare.

Markle wrote:

alecto wrote: Insurance is the greatest scam of the 20th century. The 20% loss ratio should be applied to every single form of insurance. How many people remember Ivan and all the hurricanes of 2004. How many insurance companies royally screwed over their customers by not paying then dropping those customers. The entire insurance industry is designed to squeeze as much money as possible with out having to actually insure people. I despise going to the doctor because I know that afterwards I will have to battle the insurance company on what they will pay. They constantly change the rules and constantly are coming up with new ways to deny a claim. I had a geico agent try to deny a claim because I had 285/75 r15 tires on my truck instead of 275/75 r15 which were the factory tires and his client rear ended me. Somehow the 10cm difference in tire size cause his client to slide into me.

The problem is simple, good old fashion American greed. This is what ruins many private industries and this is exactly why there needs to be government intervention. I love capitalism and think it is great but unfortunately greed will dismantle it by forcing more government involvement and the free market capitalist bubbas have no body to blame but themselves.

I however do not think a single payer system is viable in the USA. The sheer size of the population, a completely failed immigration system, and far to many people living off of the government in some way shape or form will make it impossible. Not to mention factors like the American obesity rate (80%), Americans as a whole generally have unhealthy life styles. People love their freedom, the freedom to drink as much as you like, the freedom to gorge your self with big macs, the freedom to use tobacco or smoke pot. The freedom to do all of that (most all) is awesome and I love it but it will cause health issues that will have to be treated. Which will drive up cost dramatically. Spend any time in your local Walmart counting fat bodies and you will understand. Just my .02

The very first line rendered the rest of your rant worthless. It wasn't worth the two cents.

No, he was exactly correct in his first two lines. Actually, it was a great post and very true. We need govt. intervention because of that one word-greed.Well, there are other words too but that is a big one. People cannot be trusted to do the right thing and will always try to get over on someone else whether it's the healthcare industry or anything. One of the reasons I like the mandate is now people will have to pay for their care instead of getting a free ride. The republicans should love that.

Dreamsglore wrote:The republicans should love that.

Markle wrote:

Yella wrote:cost. http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-buried-in-obamacare-explodes-today-halleluja/

I would guess this is why the Health Insurance Corporations have spent millions of dollars bribing our Congressmen and women with "Donations" to influence their votes in regard to all things Obamacare.

You must have missed my question, or did you look it up and did not like the answer. To help you, I'll repeat it here.

Please share with us who has more denials, private companies or government run Medicare.

A main goal of any company is to satisfy their customers in order that they remain customers and refer other people to the company. Private companies have to work at both, customer satisfaction which leads to profits. Government doesn't give a rip about the customer. When you were last at the Post Office, how many workers did you see rushing to serve customers?

Yella wrote:

Markle wrote:

Yella wrote:cost. http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-buried-in-obamacare-explodes-today-halleluja/

I would guess this is why the Health Insurance Corporations have spent millions of dollars bribing our Congressmen and women with "Donations" to influence their votes in regard to all things Obamacare.

You must have missed my question, or did you look it up and did not like the answer. To help you, I'll repeat it here.

Please share with us who has more denials, private companies or government run Medicare.

A main goal of any company is to satisfy their customers in order that they remain customers and refer other people to the company. Private companies have to work at both, customer satisfaction which leads to profits. Government doesn't give a rip about the customer. When you were last at the Post Office, how many workers did you see rushing to serve customers?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Maybe you didn't read this little tidbit. Maybe the greed of the CEOs and their executives will be challenged.

That would be the provision of the law, called the medical loss ratio, that requires health insurance companies to spend 80% of the consumers’ premium dollars they collect—85% for large group insurers—on actual medical care rather than overhead, marketing expenses and profit. Failure on the part of insurers to meet this requirement will result in the insurers having to send their customers a rebate check representing the amount in which they underspend on actual medical care.

This is the true ‘bomb’ contained in Obamacare and the one item that will have more impact on the future of how medical care is paid for in this country than anything we’ve seen in quite some time. Indeed, it is this aspect of the law that represents the true ‘death panel’ found in Obamacare—but not one that is going to lead to the death of American consumers. Rather, the medical loss ratio will, ultimately, lead to the death of large parts of the private, for-profit health insurance industry.

Why? Because there is absolutely no way for-profit health insurers are going to be able to learn how to get by and still make a profit while being forced to spend at least 80 percent of their receipts providing their customers with the coverage for which they paid. If they could, we likely would never have seen the extraordinary efforts made by these companies to avoid paying benefits to their customers at the very moment they need it the most.

Today, that bomb goes off.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Today, the Department of Health & Human Services [b]

Markle wrote:

Yella wrote:

Markle wrote:

Yella wrote:cost. http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-buried-in-obamacare-explodes-today-halleluja/

I would guess this is why the Health Insurance Corporations have spent millions of dollars bribing our Congressmen and women with "Donations" to influence their votes in regard to all things Obamacare.

You must have missed my question, or did you look it up and did not like the answer. To help you, I'll repeat it here.

Please share with us who has more denials, private companies or government run Medicare.

A main goal of any company is to satisfy their customers in order that they remain customers and refer other people to the company. Private companies have to work at both, customer satisfaction which leads to profits. Government doesn't give a rip about the customer. When you were last at the Post Office, how many workers did you see rushing to serve customers?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Maybe you didn't read this little tidbit. Maybe the greed of the CEOs and their executives will be challenged.

That would be the provision of the law, called the medical loss ratio, that requires health insurance companies to spend 80% of the consumers’ premium dollars they collect—85% for large group insurers—on actual medical care rather than overhead, marketing expenses and profit. Failure on the part of insurers to meet this requirement will result in the insurers having to send their customers a rebate check representing the amount in which they underspend on actual medical care.

This is the true ‘bomb’ contained in Obamacare and the one item that will have more impact on the future of how medical care is paid for in this country than anything we’ve seen in quite some time. Indeed, it is this aspect of the law that represents the true ‘death panel’ found in Obamacare—but not one that is going to lead to the death of American consumers. Rather, the medical loss ratio will, ultimately, lead to the death of large parts of the private, for-profit health insurance industry.

Why? Because there is absolutely no way for-profit health insurers are going to be able to learn how to get by and still make a profit while being forced to spend at least 80 percent of their receipts providing their customers with the coverage for which they paid. If they could, we likely would never have seen the extraordinary efforts made by these companies to avoid paying benefits to their customers at the very moment they need it the most.

Today, that bomb goes off.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Today, the Department of Health & Human Services [b]

The for profit health care insurance system has led to the finest health care the world has ever seen. It has improved, extended and saved hundreds of millions of lives around the world.

This is the system you want destroyed. Why?

You have yet to answer which has the most denials, private insurance companies or government Medicare. Why?

alecto wrote:Insurance is the greatest scam of the 20th century. The 20% loss ratio should be applied to every single form of insurance. How many people remember Ivan and all the hurricanes of 2004. How many insurance companies royally screwed over their customers by not paying then dropping those customers. The entire insurance industry is designed to squeeze as much money as possible with out having to actually insure people. I despise going to the doctor because I know that afterwards I will have to battle the insurance company on what they will pay. They constantly change the rules and constantly are coming up with new ways to deny a claim. I had a geico agent try to deny a claim because I had 285/75 r15 tires on my truck instead of 275/75 r15 which were the factory tires and his client rear ended me. Somehow the 10cm difference in tire size cause his client to slide into me.

The problem is simple, good old fashion American greed. This is what ruins many private industries and this is exactly why there needs to be government intervention. I love capitalism and think it is great but unfortunately greed will dismantle it by forcing more government involvement and the free market capitalist bubbas have no body to blame but themselves.

I however do not think a single payer system is viable in the USA. The sheer size of the population, a completely failed immigration system, and far to many people living off of the government in some way shape or form will make it impossible. Not to mention factors like the American obesity rate (80%), Americans as a whole generally have unhealthy life styles. People love their freedom, the freedom to drink as much as you like, the freedom to gorge your self with big macs, the freedom to use tobacco or smoke pot. The freedom to do all of that (most all) is awesome and I love it but it will cause health issues that will have to be treated. Which will drive up cost dramatically. Spend any time in your local Walmart counting fat bodies and you will understand. Just my .02

reaper1948 wrote:

alecto wrote:Insurance is the greatest scam of the 20th century. The 20% loss ratio should be applied to every single form of insurance. How many people remember Ivan and all the hurricanes of 2004. How many insurance companies royally screwed over their customers by not paying then dropping those customers. The entire insurance industry is designed to squeeze as much money as possible with out having to actually insure people. I despise going to the doctor because I know that afterwards I will have to battle the insurance company on what they will pay. They constantly change the rules and constantly are coming up with new ways to deny a claim. I had a geico agent try to deny a claim because I had 285/75 r15 tires on my truck instead of 275/75 r15 which were the factory tires and his client rear ended me. Somehow the 10cm difference in tire size cause his client to slide into me.

The problem is simple, good old fashion American greed. This is what ruins many private industries and this is exactly why there needs to be government intervention. I love capitalism and think it is great but unfortunately greed will dismantle it by forcing more government involvement and the free market capitalist bubbas have no body to blame but themselves.

I however do not think a single payer system is viable in the USA. The sheer size of the population, a completely failed immigration system, and far to many people living off of the government in some way shape or form will make it impossible. Not to mention factors like the American obesity rate (80%), Americans as a whole generally have unhealthy life styles. People love their freedom, the freedom to drink as much as you like, the freedom to gorge your self with big macs, the freedom to use tobacco or smoke pot. The freedom to do all of that (most all) is awesome and I love it but it will cause health issues that will have to be treated. Which will drive up cost dramatically. Spend any time in your local Walmart counting fat bodies and you will understand. Just my .02

Yes, it is the biggest scam in history but not for insurance companies but rather Dr's and hospitals. Received a bill today that's due in 10 days for $588,000 from one of our non profit hospitals here in Pensacola. Trouble is made out to the estate because the person died a year and a half ago. This was for one day hospital service and not even the day he died. He had Medicare and a Medicare supplement that covered everything, they are trying to balance bill the dead hoping someone in the family will take care of it. Well they can bite my ass. I have also spent hours going over eob's from his Medicare supplement carrier and sure looks like to me there was quite a bit of Medicare fraud billing by some of our better doctors in town. Seems like health care reform should have started with the medical profession and then post the CEO"s sinister pics of the the insurance companies a long side of the sinister CEO's of our local hospitals. Yes, I am calling Medicare Monday morning and his ex insurance company and hope like hell they can put a few of these guys in jail. Maybe when both sides are behind bars they can fight it out the sinister insurance companies or the sinister medical profession.

Floridatexan wrote:
I really don't feel like playing with you today, Markle. You're boring. I had two uncles who ran insurance agencies, my dad sold insurance (for a short time), and my sister is an agent. There is good insurance and there's bad. People get greedy. The corporate types just want to make money and they don't care how it's done. And when you're talking about health insurance, to state that companies don't treat their customers poorly is nothing but a lie.