Red Dawn 2012....has there been a more silly premise in movie history?

North Korea invading America.....their people are starving, our military for whatever reason disappears.....and we now depend on some high school kids to win the war......it sounds like the Romney campaign strategy.

2seaoat wrote:North Korea invading America.....their people are starving, our military for whatever reason disappears.....and we now depend on some high school kids to win the war......it sounds like the Romney campaign strategy.

Well you have to remember that the premise of the original flick was a superpower (the U.S.S.R) attempting to invade and conquer the U.S, which in itself was somewhat plausible I guess.
But to appeal to the movie ticket buying demographic, it was a handful of high school kids who were defending the fucking country. Same as I imagine it is in this movie.
Don't get me wrong, I can "suspend disbelief" for a movie as much as the next moviegoer, but not when it's so effing stupid it makes my head hurt.
So no, to answer your question there is no sillier premise.

People line up for this crap, and nobody goes to Lincoln....I cannot figure out if America can get much dumber movies thrown at them.....but people go.

2seaoat wrote:People line up for this crap, and nobody goes to Lincoln....I cannot figure out if America can get much dumber movies thrown at them.....but people go.

Yeah the premise of a greedy spoiled banker driven industrial society invading an agrarian society and raping it's women, burning it's cities as their hard working farmers and kids fight to defend their families is just too far fetched. The whole slave angle was a good twist ... excellent lie.

You need to see the movie.....last time I checked we were a union.....the terrorist lost.....justice prevailed. Oh, you were talking about the North Koreans......or the other losers.....I am so confused....maybe some high school kids will save the day.

Here the title of the war was The Good Guys wore Gray

Hey I heard Detroit and N.J. are rapidly becoming third world murder capitals...pay back is hell...Goodbye Chicago.....

Ahhhh, so you did not know who the writer was.....ignorance can be corrected....go see the movie.

Here the title of the war was The Good Guys wore Gray

So you are a Cub fan.......

I got google...so I don't have to stay ignorant OR see the movie...

Lincoln Poster
6
Lincoln (2012)
149 min - Biography | Drama | History - 16 November 2012 (USA)
8.3
Your rating:
-/10
Ratings: 8.3/10 from 5,888 users Metascore: 86/100
Reviews: 88 user | 84 critic | 40 from Metacritic.com

As the Civil War continues to rage, America's president struggles with continuing carnage on the battlefield and as he fights with many inside his own cabinet on the decision to emancipate the slaves.

Director:
Steven Spielberg
Writers:
Tony Kushner (screenplay), Doris Kearns Goodwin (book) (in part)
Stars:
Daniel Day-Lewis, Sally Field and David Strathairn | See full cast and crew

As the Civil War continues to rage, America's president struggles with continuing carnage on the battlefield and as he fights with many inside his own cabinet on the decision to emancipate the slaves.

Director: Steven Spielberg
Writers: Tony Kushner (screenplay), Doris Kearns Goodwin (book) (in part)
Stars: Daniel Day-Lewis, Sally Field and David Strathairn | See full cast and crew

We don't need History. We have Spielberg.to totally enlighten us.

I don't normally read many screenplays any more but i used to

wisdom is earned........

"Do the people of the South really entertain fears that a Republican administration would, directly, or indirectly, interfere with their slaves, or with them, about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you, as once a friend, and still, I hope, not an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume IV, "Letter to Alexander H. Stephens" (December 22, 1860), p. 160.

wisdom is earned........by going to a Movie and becoming a expert in history

wisdom is earned........by going to a Movie and becoming a expert in history


Yep, Goodwin and Spielberg have created a masterpiece, but you would have to go to appreciate it.......it is easier to fear the content, make excuses, and feign wisdom about history......or you could become engaged....ride your bike over to an afternoon matinee and please stay away from that buttered popcorn......it can kill you. Goodwin's writing is brilliant and Spielberg's screen adaption of the same is brilliant. The historical flavor captured is unmatched.....but I suppose Studer might have gone to the movie....so I understand your reluctance.....it is Studer's fault.

I inevitably dread reviewing historical or biopic films, because in addition to evaluating whether or not the movie is well made and discerning the story’s key messages, I’m compelled to discuss the film’s historical spin.

And make no mistake: It’s impossible to make a movie about a historical figure – especially one as controversial as Abraham Lincoln – without spinning the tale.

It’s not even necessarily the fault of the filmmaker. Any person’s life has so many nuances, so many sides to the story, that elements and events must be left out and perspectives glossed over, or the film would stretch two years instead of two hours.

So here’s a less-than-surprising news flash: “Lincoln” presents a less-than-complete picture of the famous president.

Let’s start with what the film does well.

First of all, the film wisely limits its treatment of Lincoln to one month in time, the congressional lame duck session after the 1864 election during which the 13th Amendment was passed.

During that month, the film strips off the candy-coated façade of Lincoln from the junior high textbooks and reveals a far more accurate picture of a shrewd and pragmatic politician – which Lincoln was, far more than an idealist championing abolition or the sanctity of the union – working, conniving and cajoling a boisterous, cantankerous Congress into passing the 13th Amendment. This approach, which is the heart of the book from which this film is adapted (“Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln”), gives the political junkie a thrill ride of insider political twists and shenanigans from an era when lawmakers weren’t afraid to call one another rotten dirty snakes – and worse – on the floor of the House, while spinning a lovely and eloquent backstabbing at a cocktail party later that evening.

The acting in the film is also phenomenal – from Daniel Day-Lewis’ complete immersion into the mannerisms of the lead character, to Sally Field’s completely believable portrayal of his practically bipolar wife, to Tommy Lee Jones in highest form as the powerful, silver tongued firebrand Thaddeus Stevens, which really ices this cake masterfully.

Giving these actors a brilliantly written script – at least through most of the picture – is a recipe for fantastic filmmaking.

But now, let’s look at what isn’t done so well in “Lincoln.”

Unfortunately, despite giving a more realistic picture of Lincoln than any I think I’ve ever seen, the film still went way too far in making the 16th president seem practically divine.

For starters, the film’s opening and closing sequences are so sappy and adulatory that it diminishes the far grittier and more realistic picture seen in the middle of the movie.

This is made only worse by the silly line spoken to him about his presidential popularity: “No one’s ever been loved so much by the people.”

Yet this film takes place right after Lincoln’s re-election, which he won by a 10-point margin … after you discount the votes from half the country (thanks to secession). Considering roughly 70 percent of the country hated his guts and half the country up and left the union because of his first election, I’m just not feeling the “love” for Lincoln.

The film also had the courage (which no textbook I’ve ever seen dares) to mention how Lincoln used his war powers in blatantly unconstitutional means, such as imprisoning members of the press who were critical of him and suspending the right to habeas corpus – yet when it levels this criticism, the words are spoken in the raving rant of the film’s biggest villain, as though these charges were just some sort of political slander. But the charges are neither slander nor lunacy; Lincoln committed shocking deeds of presidential overreach that would have made Patrick Henry roll over in his grave. These realities just don’t come through in this film’s glowing portrayal of the president.

Furthermore, the film quickly dismisses many of Lincoln’s less-than-abolitionist ways – such as his previous, public support for a different 13th Amendment that would have banned the federal government for interfering with states that wanted to maintain slavery – quipping that these statements were only what he “had” to say in the political climate at the time.

It’s true that much of Lincoln’s equivocation on slavery can be traced to his fundamental pragmatism – which the film does really emphasize – but it’s clearly a gloss-over moment in a movie that is rushing to portray Lincoln as the “Great Emancipator.”

The film’s constant focus on slavery also seems to reinforce the popular misconception that the War Between the States was “all about slavery,” but I’ll give it a bit of a pass on that one, since the movie is trying to focus just on the 13th Amendment.

From a film quality perspective, the movie has some flaws as well, particularly in the corny – nay, outright cheesy – scene in which Lincoln first appears on screen. It’s bad. Laughably bad.

The conclusion of the film is also a bit clumsy too, and when you consider the middle drags on a bit at too deliberate a pace, for all its shining moments – and there really are some gems – “Lincoln” just isn’t as enjoyable as it could have been.

But my biggest criticism of “Lincoln” is its primary moral message.

This isn’t a film about a man making sacrifices to do what’s right. It isn’t about overcoming adversity or redeeming a broken country. This is about politics. And doing whatever it takes to win the day. Lie, cheat, bribe – the end justifies the means.

The protagonist, Lincoln, preaches and models the notion that if your cause is just, just about anything can be done to see it through. Even the film’s most idealistic man of virtue, Thaddeus Stevens, is eventually convinced by Lincoln that if lying and two-facing is what it takes to accomplish your goals, then you do it. Lincoln actually presents Stevens with a convincing argument that a man’s moral compass must be set aside to accomplish his moral goals. And by the film’s end, the audience celebrates Lincoln and Stevens compromising their integrity, because, hey – they got the 13th Amendment passed.

In a film that is clearly attempting to put Lincoln up on a pedestal, I find that pedestal to be on awfully shaky footing.

Content advisory:

“Lincoln,” rated PG-13, contains roughly 35 profanities and obscenities, including a few instances that seem a little too strong and too modern for the time period.

The film has almost no sexuality, with a kiss, a couple seen (clothed) in bed together, a reference to prostitution and Mary Todd Lincoln shown partially undressing (not in a sensual way).

The film includes a brutal battle scene, some minor gun violence, a few stories about violence, several shots of corpses upon the battlefield and a startling sequence where blood-dripping, amputated limbs are dumped into a common grave.

The film is loaded with religious references, common to the time period, arguments about God, references to the Greek pantheon of gods and prayer. Lincoln has a bizarre dream that he asks his wife to interpret as his “soothsayer” (said in jest), and young Tad raves about a new book he’s reading about evolution, but the film has no occult or significant religious themes.

Pretty good review and I totally agree with the Speilberg syrupy beginning with soldiers quoting the Gettysburg address.....made no sense....the rest of the review is pretty fair. A great movie in our midst....and people are staying home........I know Quint probably went to the movie and ruined it for you.

2seaoat wrote:wisdom is earned........by going to a Movie and becoming a expert in history


Yep, Goodwin and Spielberg have created a masterpiece, but you would have to go to appreciate it.......it is easier to fear the content, make excuses, and feign wisdom about history......or you could become engaged....ride your bike over to an afternoon matinee and please stay away from that buttered popcorn......it can kill you. Goodwin's writing is brilliant and Spielberg's screen adaption of the same is brilliant. The historical flavor captured is unmatched.....but I suppose Studer might have gone to the movie....so I understand your reluctance.....it is Studer's fault.

Nice try but i really dont give a damn right now about movies. My sons ex wife has run into hard times and has asked me to take care of my 14 year old grandson. It should be a no brainier. But I really dont want him going to Escambia High school or living on the truly shitty west side. So in his best interest I am going to have to let him go to Illinois and attend school. His father and I had always planned for him to spend a school year with me. Damn Movies can take peoples mind off of the real issues that many of us face. Maybe you have time to dream bout what might have been and all the great people in history. I dont...

hallmarkgrad wrote:You cant bait me about Mr Studer. Trust me when I say I dont give a shit what he does. this silly forum is the only time I even mention his name. I sometimes enjoy ragging his ass because it really seems to make people mad. I know who he is and so do you......

nope.....movies sometimes can inspire....cannot think of a better movie for a fourteen year old to see......Lincoln was the person who lived his entire life getting the short end of the stick......lost a sibling and his mother to disease....his dad struggled to make a living.....he was on his own, and was self made, only to marry a person who was insane, to be tossed into an impossible task, and to get shot going........oooopssss to a movie of his time....I guess you have a point, but when you think our problems are big....look at how the President handled his life.....the movie is an inspiration, and it would be something which could make a 14 year old realize that life is a series of challenges....they never end.

My next door neighbor died of pancreatic cancer a year and a half ago....his son went back to join his mother in Arizona......she was living with an illegal alien, and they had another daughter together. In Arizona he could not find employment, so he cooked meals, grocery shopped, and took the kids to school, and Friday night he died running, and my wife came over Friday crying after talking to the grandmother.....they have no money to pay for a funeral....and the boy I Knew next door now has seen his dad die....picked up and moved from all his friends and moved to ARizona where his mother was struggling to survive because the father of her other child could not work.....and now he dies....leaving this family with nobody to help........nope......go to Lincoln.....it is more than a movie...........when adversity strikes....Lincoln saved this nation in the face of unsurmountable personal crisis......in the end your grandson, my neighbor's son, and all young people who face these crisis become stronger...and who knows....maybe some day president of the United States.

I can assure you I dont need to go a movie to learn how to cope with adversity. Damn a Movie!!!. We are going riding tomorrow and will spend the day just kicking around the Bayou. He cooked some chicken and make our lunch so we are ready. You dont have to teach people about misery and hard times, it is easy to find in my area.


I have had enough Thanks for the conversation. Take care

hallmarkgrad wrote:

Nice try but i really dont give a damn right now about movies. My sons ex wife has run into hard times and has asked me to take care of my 14 year old grandson. It should be a no brainier. But I really dont want him going to Escambia High school or living on the truly shitty west side. So in his best interest I am going to have to let him go to Illinois and attend school. His father and I had always planned for him to spend a school year with me. Damn Movies can take peoples mind off of the real issues that many of us face. Maybe you have time to dream bout what might have been and all the great people in history. I dont...

hallmarkgrad: You have a PM.

2seaoat wrote:North Korea invading America.....their people are starving, our military for whatever reason disappears.....and we now depend on some high school kids to win the war......it sounds like the Romney campaign strategy.

Weekend at Bernie's is realistic? Movies are ENTERTAINMANT.

This is almost, a word for word, remake of...ta da..."Red Dawn" staring Patrick Swazey, made in 1984 and featured the USSR invading America and teenagers fighting back.

I guess they were afraid to use China as it might be to realistic to some people.

This thread is schizophrenic and trying to go three directions at once.

(1) is a discussion of how silly the Red Dawn movie is (which is the title of the thread).
(2) is a discussion of flaws in the Lincoln movie and in movies in general which attempt to tell history.
And (3) is the opinion that Lincoln (the person) doesn't justify his hype.

I'm just not sure that (2) and (3) have much relevance to (1) and that goes equally for the original and the remake.
(2) and (3) are at least worthy of adult discussion. (1) is nothing more than a teenage fantasy flick. I put it in the same category as the video game software marketed to kids which permits them to vicariously become combat heroes while sitting in front of an X-Box console or sitting in a seat at The Rave.