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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » I know this makes me be one of those real idiots so many talk about. But it's really true so I need your help.

I know this makes me be one of those real idiots so many talk about. But it's really true so I need your help.

+9
Yella
TEOTWAWKI
Bluebonnet
Captn Kaoz
Joanimaroni
Floridatexan
Nekochan
gulfbeachbandit
Hospital Bob
13 posters

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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Captn Kaoz wrote:Bob,

Take a look at Obamacare. A small business with 50 full time employees is required to provide health insurance or pay a $2000.00 fine. That is $100,000 for a company of 50 employees. If Obamacare actually goes into effect what do you think will happen to employee number 50? He/She will now cost the company an additional $100,000 plus their salary.

If you cannot vote for Romney for yourself, do it for employee number 50.

Help them keep their job.
That's a good point, capt.
But I also know a family of five, early 30's mom and dad with three children, The father is a very hard worker and is doing everything he can to struggle along and permit his family to survive. The mother is taking care of small children so she can't work yet. And they cannot afford health insurance. Obamacare will enable them to have health insurance.

See, like with most things, it's not all black or all white. But that's how we approach everything now. The truth is there really is more than one side to most things.

Guest


Guest

It just boils down to what you believe Bob, what values do you hold sacred, what are your ideals. Tons of people like to put up numbers for or against a specific candidate, they like to point out flaws or strengths, they lie and manipulate to persuade you but in the end it is about you, your core values, your ideals and what you believe.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Dreamsglore wrote:

I agree. I don't think Bob should vote if he doesn't vote for Obama.

Corrected for truth. lol

gulfbeachbandit

gulfbeachbandit

Bob wrote:
Captn Kaoz wrote:Bob,

Take a look at Obamacare. A small business with 50 full time employees is required to provide health insurance or pay a $2000.00 fine. That is $100,000 for a company of 50 employees. If Obamacare actually goes into effect what do you think will happen to employee number 50? He/She will now cost the company an additional $100,000 plus their salary.

If you cannot vote for Romney for yourself, do it for employee number 50.

Help them keep their job.
That's a good point, capt.
But I also know a family of five, early 30's mom and dad with three children, The father is a very hard worker and is doing everything he can to struggle along and permit his family to survive. The mother is taking care of small children so she can't work yet. And they cannot afford health insurance. Obamacare will enable them to have health insurance.

See, like with most things, it's not all black or all white. But that's how we approach everything now. The truth is there really is more than one side to most things.

If only he had a job with healthcare before starting a family. Like most fiscal responsible people do. Having babies without a financial plan ain't very bright.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

alecto wrote:It just boils down to what you believe Bob, what values do you hold sacred, what are your ideals. Tons of people like to put up numbers for or against a specific candidate, they like to point out flaws or strengths, they lie and manipulate to persuade you but in the end it is about you, your core values, your ideals and what you believe.

I believe there's a place for both private (individuality, capitalism, self-sufficiency etc) and a place for public (government, community etc.).
But for two long endless years I've witnessed a political campaign and a media and political dialogue and rhetoric which pits one against the other to the exclusion of almost everything else.
And I see nothing and no one on the scene which emphasizes what I believe. If anything all I see is divide between the two which is growing and growing as more time passes. And I don't see it benefitting us.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

ghandi wrote:


If only he had a job with healthcare before starting a family. Like most fiscal responsible people do. Having babies without a financial plan ain't very bright.
He's a self-employed (like I was) craftsman (woodworker/cabinet maker).
But even if he was working for an employer, you need to understand that employers are providing less and less health coverage, ghandi. It's becoming harder and harder to find jobs with health benefits.

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:Obamacare.
It's very difficult for me to believe anything Romney says about that when it was Romney himself who championed virtually the same thing for Massachussetts which provided the template for Obamacare. And his state vs federal argument on that just doesn't do it for me. That wreaks of nothing but political rationalization.



Thats right bob, you can bet romney will keep the good parts of obamacare. it needs fixin though, bad...

ill make my pitch short.

Romney has a proven record of leading multi billion dollar companies into sucess, obama has proven even with all your tax dollars he cant lead one into sucess.

and the your portfolio will probaly improve as bussinesses will have confidence again

oh and i wont have to wear what ever terrible avatar boards is dreaming up for me I love you

gulfbeachbandit

gulfbeachbandit

Bob wrote:
ghandi wrote:


If only he had a job with healthcare before starting a family. Like most fiscal responsible people do. Having babies without a financial plan ain't very bright.
He's a self-employed (like I was) craftsman (woodworker/cabinet maker).
But even if he was working for an employer, you need to understand that employers are providing less and less health coverage, ghandi. It's becoming harder and harder to find jobs with health benefits.

Choices have consiquences bob. We all make choices. I, and several others chose a career with lifetime healthcare. Too bad everyone can't think ahead.

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
Captn Kaoz wrote:Bob,

Take a look at Obamacare. A small business with 50 full time employees is required to provide health insurance or pay a $2000.00 fine. That is $100,000 for a company of 50 employees. If Obamacare actually goes into effect what do you think will happen to employee number 50? He/She will now cost the company an additional $100,000 plus their salary.

If you cannot vote for Romney for yourself, do it for employee number 50.

Help them keep their job.
That's a good point, capt.
But I also know a family of five, early 30's mom and dad with three children, The father is a very hard worker and is doing everything he can to struggle along and permit his family to survive. The mother is taking care of small children so she can't work yet. And they cannot afford health insurance. Obamacare will enable them to have health insurance.

See, like with most things, it's not all black or all white. But that's how we approach everything now. The truth is there really is more than one side to most things.

What obamacare will likely do is force the family to purchase healthcare when they had previously chosen to spend it to enjoy a higher quality of life or save to have some buffer paycheck to paycheck. This margin is middle class and large. The very poor have had healthcare... this will affect the working poor... it won't be free.

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:
Bob wrote:
Captn Kaoz wrote:Bob,

Take a look at Obamacare. A small business with 50 full time employees is required to provide health insurance or pay a $2000.00 fine. That is $100,000 for a company of 50 employees. If Obamacare actually goes into effect what do you think will happen to employee number 50? He/She will now cost the company an additional $100,000 plus their salary.

If you cannot vote for Romney for yourself, do it for employee number 50.

Help them keep their job.
That's a good point, capt.
But I also know a family of five, early 30's mom and dad with three children, The father is a very hard worker and is doing everything he can to struggle along and permit his family to survive. The mother is taking care of small children so she can't work yet. And they cannot afford health insurance. Obamacare will enable them to have health insurance.

See, like with most things, it's not all black or all white. But that's how we approach everything now. The truth is there really is more than one side to most things.

What obamacare will likely do is force the family to purchase healthcare when they had previously chosen to spend it to enjoy a higher quality of life or save to have some buffer paycheck to paycheck. This margin is middle class and large. The very poor have had healthcare... this will affect the working poor... it won't be free.

PKR, you don't think having healthcare is important? Who should pay for this families healthcare, if they don't have it?

Guest


Guest

I'm not saying it isn't important... I'm just telling it like it is. The upper middle class either already have ins or can afford to. The wealthy have ins. The poor have medicaid. The elderly and retired have medicare. The disabled have care.

We may as well really acknowledge who we're talking about and who will cover the cost.

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:I'm not saying it isn't important... I'm just telling it like it is. The upper middle class either already have ins or can afford to. The wealthy have ins. The poor have medicaid. The elderly and retired have medicare. The disabled have care.

We may as well really acknowledge who we're talking about and who will cover the cost.

Let me clue you in on some facts. I work w/ this everyday.If you become disabled you are not eligible for medicare until after two years of disability. That means if you have an income of let's say around 1000 -1200 a month. You do not qualify for medicaid. I'm not sure what the cutoff is but it's a very low income. Most of the people who work in my organization and make minimum wage do not qualify for medicaid. This leaves them out of health insurance as they can't afford the company health insurance either. Unless you have a serious debilitating illness and a very low income you do not get medicaid. The assumption people have access to healthcare through this is false. Check it out for yourself.

Bluebonnet



If you have not decided by now, then do not vote for the president.

If you vote based on one or two issues, you will be disappointed. The economy, world political climate, domestic concerns will be completely different one, two and three years down the road, changing the likelihood any president will be in line with your thinking right now.

Choose the philosophy, broad platform, character and inclination, not the issue.

Remember you can skip your vote for the president and jump right to votes for Congress, judges and state amendment proposals and the like.

Whatever you do, be sure to READ the ballot before you vote. This one is long and will take twenty minutes or so to work your way through the legal verbiage.

To vote for someone or something for which you are ignorant makes you doubly the fool.

Guest


Guest

There will be a sliding scale of assistance... those people will likely be asked for some small percentage of salary to enter the exchange... or be fined (taxed). Even if those you work with slide in with free obamacare... there will be those affected negatively... that will struggle to comply with the mandate.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Soleil wrote:
To vote for someone or something for which you are ignorant makes you doubly the fool.
With all the countless hours I've devoted to absorbing all this American government and politics, if I'm ignorant then the problem is a lot bigger than me. Because if I'm still ignorant then so are most all the rest of the voting public. Wink

I've made a decision. I'm going to cast a vote against Obama. But I have almost no confidence that vote is going to lead to anything better.
If for no other reason, I want to do my part to help Romney win so I can tell all you Romney people I told you so.
If I'm still alive in two years, and this forum still exists, I'm going to post to this thread again then and say exactly that, "I told you so".

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:There will be a sliding scale of assistance... those people will likely be asked for some small percentage of salary to enter the exchange... or be fined (taxed). Even if those you work with slide in with free obamacare... there will be those affected negatively... that will struggle to comply with the mandate.

As it should be. People have misguided priorities. Having a higher lifestyle like cable TV for $200 a month should not override something like healthcare. I should not have to pay for someone's healthcare because they choose to spend their money elsewhere. I get applications all the time for assistance where people ask for financial help and list their bills.They could have paid for it but they choose to have expensive cell phones and then want us to pay for their medical help. This annoys the hell out of me. A woman recently called me from Iowa who was from here and asked for money to get back here w/ her husband who was paralyzed in Iowa. They lived in a $400,000 home but had no health insurance or disability insurance. He was the only breadwinner. We helped them get back but she is now facing homesness w/ a paralyzed husband who won't even get much SS because he was self employed. She spent two months in Iowa w/ him at the hospital sleeping in her car because she had no money. They cut off her utilities.WTH is wrong w/ people to spend that kind of money on a home and have no way to keep it if something happens?

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
Soleil wrote:
To vote for someone or something for which you are ignorant makes you doubly the fool.
With all the countless hours I've devoted to absorbing all this American government and politics, if I'm ignorant then the problem is a lot bigger than me. Because if I'm still ignorant then so are most all the rest of the voting public. Wink

I've made a decision. I'm going to cast a vote against Obama. But I have almost no confidence that vote is going to lead to anything better.
If for no other reason, I want to do my part to help Romney win so I can tell all you Romney people I told you so.
If I'm still alive in two years, and this forum still exists, I'm going to post to this thread again then and say exactly that, "I told you so".

Told us what?

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

We voted ourselves into this mess...bunch of gimme gimme people wanting the fat bloated government to give us more stuff..now it's so fat it threatens to crush us under it's weight...I am not voting for anyone or anything so I can come back in two years and tell you I told You so..Bob.

Voting is like cows mooing for food as they enter the slaughter house....

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Dreamsglore wrote:
Bob wrote:
Soleil wrote:
To vote for someone or something for which you are ignorant makes you doubly the fool.
With all the countless hours I've devoted to absorbing all this American government and politics, if I'm ignorant then the problem is a lot bigger than me. Because if I'm still ignorant then so are most all the rest of the voting public. Wink

I've made a decision. I'm going to cast a vote against Obama. But I have almost no confidence that vote is going to lead to anything better.
If for no other reason, I want to do my part to help Romney win so I can tell all you Romney people I told you so.
If I'm still alive in two years, and this forum still exists, I'm going to post to this thread again then and say exactly that, "I told you so".

Told us what?
What I wrote there (what you quoted) is extremely clear for anyone to understand.
But it was plainly addressed to "you Romney people". And since you're not a Romney people, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you're one of that "us". lol

Although after what you wrote in your post immediately preceding that one, I'm not sure if you're totally an obama/democrat people anymore either. Because that was out of character for you. the obama/democrat people want them to have government provided health care regardless of what they spend on anything else. lol



Last edited by Bob on 11/5/2012, 10:51 pm; edited 2 times in total

Bluebonnet



TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Voting is like cows mooing for food as they enter the slaughter house....

I am so stealing this.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

TEOTWAWKI wrote:We voted ourselves into this mess...bunch of gimme gimme people wanting the fat bloated government to give us more stuff..now it's so fat it threatens to crush us under it's weight...I am not voting for anyone or anything so I can come back in two years and tell you I told You so..Bob.

Voting is like cows mooing for food as they enter the slaughter house....
I've been thinking a lot about this voting thing recently. I've meant to post those thoughts but for some reason have been distracted. But this is as good a time as any.

I'm as cynical and pessimistic as it gets about our government and our country.
I've been as critical as anyone I've listened to anywhere talk about this election.
But not long ago something occurred to me. One thing we still have is a government which is determined by the people voting. If that wasn't the case, then there would be no need for these various powerful people to devote two years and a billion dollars to convincing us which way to vote.
They would just rig the election and coast through it to a conclusion.
But that's not what has happened. These two political parties and their candidates have been required to devote all this time and energy and money to get these votes. What we've witnessed is itself the proof that, if nothing else, we still have a system of government which requires our votes. No one is dictating the outcome of this election. No one is rigging the voting in any significant way because if they could they would and they would not need to convince us of anything to get our vote, they would just fix the election (like is done in places throughout the world).
So we still have the republic the founders gave us. At least for now.
And that's not something to take for granted.

When I was in that courtroom this morning I was experiencing something similiar. As badly in need of reform as our judicial system arguably is, they still need you and me to sit on those trials and be the deciders. And that's also not how it's done in many places throughout the world.
Also not something to take for granted.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Go ahead Bob keep digging through the horseshit looking for a pony....

Voting just makes us culpable in our own undoing...

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:We voted ourselves into this mess...bunch of gimme gimme people wanting the fat bloated government to give us more stuff..now it's so fat it threatens to crush us under it's weight...I am not voting for anyone or anything so I can come back in two years and tell you I told You so..Bob.

Voting is like cows mooing for food as they enter the slaughter house....
I've been thinking a lot about this voting thing recently. I've meant to post those thoughts but for some reason have been distracted. But this is as good a time as any.

I'm as cynical and pessimistic as it gets about our government and our country.
I've been as critical as anyone I've listened to anywhere talk about this election.
But not long ago something occurred to me. One thing we still have is a government which is determined by the people voting. If that wasn't the case, then there would be no need for these various powerful people to devote two years and a billion dollars to convincing us which way to vote.
They would just rig the election and coast through it to a conclusion.
But that's not what has happened. These two political parties and their candidates have been required to devote all this time and energy and money to get these votes. What we've witnessed is itself the proof that, if nothing else, we still have a system of government which requires our votes. No one is dictating the outcome of this election. No one is rigging the voting in any significant way because if they could they would and they would not need to convince us of anything to get our vote, they would just fix the election (like is done in places throughout the world).
So we still have the republic the founders gave us. At least for now.
And that's not something to take for granted.

When I was in that courtroom this morning I was experiencing something similiar. As badly in need of reform as our judicial system arguably is, they still need you and me to sit on those trials and be the deciders. And that's also not how it's done in many places throughout the world.
Also not something to take for granted.

What makes you think you can decide the facts in a jury case when you can't even decide who to vote for? We don't need people who can't decide to sit on a jury and decide someone's fate. Sorry,Bob but you out yourself out here and people like you concern me sitting on juries.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Go ahead Bob keep digging through the horseshit looking for a pony....

Voting just makes us culpable in our own undoing...
You could be right. What we have now for a government and nation could indeed be no better than how you just characterized it.
But it could also be that this ability to vote still has some value to it. And if that is the case then we should not casually want to throw that vote away.
And I've been culpable in a lot of my own undoing and that's never stopped me yet. lol

Yella

Yella

Bob wrote:Yes I'm really sincere when I tell you I'm one of those morons who even at this late stage is still "undecided" about which one to vote for tomorrow.
I am going to vote at 7AM before I report to jury duty at 8:15.
Please give me your best argument for Obama and your best argument for Romney. If you make a good enough argument and convince me, then you will essentially be doubling the impact of your own vote.

And you can either try to convince me why I should vote FOR one of them OR vote AGAINST one of them (the evil of two lessers if you prefer).
And you can put your argument in one sentence or several paragraphs.

Obama is a human being.
Romney is a Corporate puppet.



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