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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » More food for thought about Biden

More food for thought about Biden

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PkrBum
othershoe1030
Floridatexan
Telstar
Sal
zsomething
RealLindaL
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RealLindaL



https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/11/politics/joe-biden-2020-strategy-democratic-party-republicans/index.html

".... the commonly held view among liberals, who compose the base of the Democratic Party, is that Trump is not an anomaly or a virus within the broader Republican Party, he is the Republican Party. That attempts, like Biden's, to say Trump is 'other' than the GOP lessens the party's culpability on its capitulation to the darker forces at work in the President's message and the party he represents."

zsomething



Biden's doing some mis-steps, but that's not a surprise for anybody who knows anything about Biden. He's a good guy, but he often errs on the side of trying to be decent, even to people who are unworthy of it. What's left of the Republican party is now nothing but a nasty, propaganda-driven cult. Some people want to pretend otherwise because it's so crazy, but, that's where we're at.

Meanwhile, I see Democrats wanting to make the same "Bernie-bro" mistakes all over again. Bernie has a cult of his own, and even though some of them have jumped ship to Elizabeth Warren (who's a far better candidate than Bernie, so at least they have some sense), they still think they can play lefty purity-games and refuse to support anyone who's not far enough left for 'em. So, they're already sniping at Biden, even though his electability is the highest at this point.

Democrats are dumb, Republicans are dumb-brainwashed-and-evil. Neither choice is great, but considering Republicans are no choice at all, it seems like it should be a cakewalk... but, the extremes seem determined to fuck it up again.

Sal

Sal

Trump is just a symptom of a much more malignant disease at the heart of the GOP.

If this ideology is not confronted and relegated to the dustbin of history, what's waiting in the wings is even far worse than Trump.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/josh-hawley-could-be-the-face-of-the-post-trump-right.html

zsomething



Sal wrote:Trump is just a symptom of a much more malignant disease at the heart of the GOP.

If this ideology is not confronted and relegated to the dustbin of history, what's waiting in the wings is even far worse than Trump.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/josh-hawley-could-be-the-face-of-the-post-trump-right.html

Yep. What worries me isn't Trump so much as his base. Trump's one guy. But a base who not only finds that acceptable but even thinks it's good... well, there you've got a problem.

I know a whole lot of the right are hooked on talk-radio and FOX and hate-websites and Trump excites them because he (A) doesn't confuse them with policy talk that they don't understand anyway, and (B) is all red-meat, all the time. They like being toadies to a bully. They like it that Trump spews insults and calls people names and says racist stuff, just because it's "politically incorrect." It makes them feel better about the racist shit they like to say, and it also "pisses off the liberals." And that's the main thing they're about now. Having a black fairly-liberal president come in and fix the problems created by a Republican president and be liked by the world really stuck in their craw. Dubya was seen as a stupid embarrassment who got the United States into all kinds of messes, and he couldn't fix the economy. Obama came in and fixed the economy so well that Trump's trying to take credit for trends that are slightly less robust than they were under Obama.

So, they were so mad and embarrassed that they said "We'll show you!" and voted in someone who, honestly, makes Dubya look like a competent statesman. And I wouldn't have believed I'd ever say that about anybody.

I don't believe anyone except the dumbest of dumbasses actually thought Trump would make a good president. I think, overwhelmingly, the reason he was elected is because the conservatives hated Obama's success so much after they elected a dud that they just wanted someone in office that "the left" (i.e. anybody who's not a FOX zombie) would hate. And they're gleeful about how well that part of it worked. They don't really give a shit if America goes to hell because of him -- "at least he pisses off them liberals we hate!" That's really what motivated them.

And, it still does. Trump will be gone eventually, one way or another, but these people will just elect some other lunatic. Hell, half of 'em can't admit Trump's an embarrassment, so next they'll vote in Matt Gaetz or whoever else just says hateful shit about "the left" all the time. That's really all they want.

Meanwhile, the Democrats are fighting amongst themselves about nuances of policies and stuff, killing their own candidates off, actually trying to vote for somebody who'll do the job well.

Meanwhile, the right's unified because the core's just a buncha crazy howler monkeys who'll take anybody who says shitty things about Democrats. They don't care about policy, because they don't understand it. They believe a bunch of conspiracy-theory shit, anyway. I mean, look at 'em -- right now they're trying to claim the real crime was investigating a crime. Who's guilty? The judge, for trying a case! It's lunacy, but they actually believe that shit.

Anyway, those people aren't going away. They won't admit a mistake was a mistake, and they're eager to make their next one. The people who elected Trump are the problem, 'cuz they're just going to do the same crap again, and again, and again, and again, unless the Democrats wise up and get their act together and outvote them. We do outnumber them... but they're motivated. They're fueled on hate for "libtards" and "political correctness" and "demands for decency," etc. Plus, they want theocracy. On the right, religion and politics are totally blended now, with all the fervor and lack-of-a-need-for-logic that that implies. That's dangerous... but it's powerful for anyone with enough lack-of-conscience to wield it.

Telstar

Telstar

"Trump will be gone eventually, one way or another" Let's all hope and pray it happens soon and not later or worse yet, too late. Twisted Evil

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


I keep hearing this song in my head. I read that it was really popular in Vietnam at the time. Now it applies to our own country...not that I'm planning to leave, because now is the time to stand and fight.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

I think after the first debate the field will be narrowed down to a reasonable number. Between our idiot president and the democrats, frantic to see him go, starting the 2020 campaign so early, the public is getting worn out, flooded with political news and are likely to be tuning this out until closer to the election.

I blame the media in general for getting 45 elected. They liked getting ratings boosts whenever the toad was willing to sit for an interview or take the time to call in to some talk show. They gave him a billion dollars of free air time mainly because their ratings went up. Now, the same thing is happening with the Biden/Trump back and forth squabbles. Every time Biden gives a speech saying how terrible 45 is, the Tweeter in Chief, of course, tweets a response and the news cycle gets highjacked.

I'm not too worried about the Dems in-fighting at this point because I don't think most people are watching. Suppose you all saw that woman who was interviewed after one of the Dem candidates spoke, I think Mayor Pete? She said she had no clue about how negative the Mueller report was because she was basing her thoughts on what Barr had said. THAT so poisoned the waters (extremely effective ploy on 45/Barr's part) that we are left with a ton of "educating" to do in order to bring the public around to a more accurate reality.

It now becomes clear that 45's base is so base that he could literally shoot someone on 5th Avenue and they would still stick with him. It is illogical, but then a lot of politics is illogical.

I just hope the Dems don't nominate someone who 45's team can paint as a socialist. Although they could nominate the head of the Chamber of Commerce and the R's would still scream Socialist, so there's that.

PkrBum

PkrBum

Joe Biden, Recalling ‘Civility’ in Senate, Invokes Two Segregationist Senators

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/biden-segregationists.html

Telstar

Telstar

PkrBum wrote:     More food for thought about Biden Pkr_bu15

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:Joe Biden, Recalling ‘Civility’ in Senate, Invokes Two Segregationist Senators

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/biden-segregationists.html

I think Biden's very long history is his biggest liability. If he keeps reminiscing about the good old days in the vein of this article, I think it will be a turn-off to many democratic voters who are looking ahead to a more progressive future.

Civility in public life would be a welcome change but it sure isn't the problem that cries out the loudest for correction.

PkrBum

PkrBum

“You know, what I’ve found is rich people are just as patriotic as poor people. Not a joke. I mean, we may not want to demonize anybody who has made money,”

Telstar

Telstar

PkrBum wrote:     More food for thought about Biden Horses12

bigdog



PkrBum wrote:Joe Biden, Recalling ‘Civility’ in Senate, Invokes Two Segregationist Senators

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/biden-segregationists.html





Hey, Pkr. I'm a Joe Biden voter. I don't care.
See, there's your problem. I didn't care about all the references to his "touching" women's hair. That didn't work.
I didn't care way back in 1988 or whenever it was that he was accused of plagiarism in college. It only worked that time because dems had the choice of Bill Clinton. This time, Biden is the only game in town for moderates. So, I don't care. It won't work.
It won't work for any moderates out there. We won't give up on Biden. Because we don't want the fucking demon in the White House that is there now, and we are the majority of Americans, like it or not. Three million more of us voted for Hillary than voted for the demon. We also are capable of knowing that it was outrageous for the gay community to expect a pride flag be flown above an American embassy, which is exactly the kind of issue that turns middle Americans directly away from the Democratic party. It's the kind of issue that all those other Democratic candidates running want to embrace because they want to look so "woke" that their eyes are about to explode.
If they want to attack Biden for being willing to talk to racists, all it will do is make centrist American think they are far too left for them. Because those Americans talk to their neighbors, whether they are racists or not. I certainly do, I even talk to YOU Pkr, did you notice?

PkrBum

PkrBum

That's fine... and among the Democrats he's probably my favorite too. I like him.

But there's a long time before the election and he's got a record of some controversial positions that he will have to flip flop on. Then there's his gaffes. He says the damndest things... much like trump.

I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out. There's not much tolerance on the left for anything politically incorrect... or differences of opinion really.

Sal

Sal

Putting aside differences to work closely with white nationalists to “get things done”, is basically the bargain the Republican party made in 2016.

Thanks, but no thanks.

And the, “He never called me ‘boy,’ he always called me ‘son.’”, comment is a complete misreading of that terminology in the history and context of the African-American experience in the United States.

Atrocious comment in its entirety.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Sal wrote:Putting aside differences to work closely with white nationalists to “get things done”, is basically the bargain the Republican party made in 2016.

Thanks, but no thanks.

And the, “He never called me ‘boy,’ he always called me ‘son.’”, comment is a complete misreading of that terminology in the history and context of the African-American experience in the United States.

Atrocious comment in its entirety.

You mean white supremacists and you are wrong. You Sal, are a racist, blaming all republicans of supremacy. You promote socialism, nothing more.

Sal

Sal

Joanimaroni wrote:
You mean white supremacists and you are wrong. You Sal, are a racist, blaming all republicans of supremacy.

I used to say that not all republicans are racists, but all racists are republicans ...

... but, you make a valid point, ...

... at this point, ... after seeing the Trump campaign, the treatment of undocumented immigrants, the attacks on African-American professional athletes, Charlottesville and the administration's response to it, the ban on Muslims entering the U.S., etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum, ...

... you're right. At this point, ALL republicans are, at the very least, complicit with their party's drift into white supremacy (or, white nationalism - whichever flavor you prefer, honey-child).

Joanimaroni wrote:  You promote socialism, nothing more.

You forgot to end your gibberish by addressing me as "comrade", so I can't really say your comment cut me to the quick.

lol

PkrBum

PkrBum

All while Biden reminisces about his racist buddies... Warren appropriated native American heritage to her benefit... and there's a black face governor who's still in office. It's impressive how much you can ignore for political indignation. You're quite the social justice warrior... lol.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

bigdog wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Joe Biden, Recalling ‘Civility’ in Senate, Invokes Two Segregationist Senators

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/biden-segregationists.html





Hey, Pkr. I'm a Joe Biden voter. I don't care.
See, there's your problem. I didn't care about all the references to his "touching" women's hair. That didn't work.
I didn't care way back in 1988 or whenever it was that he was accused of plagiarism in college. It only  worked that time because dems had the choice of Bill Clinton. This time, Biden is the only game in town for moderates. So, I don't care. It won't work.
It won't work for any moderates out there. We won't give up on Biden. Because we don't want the fucking demon in the White House that is there now, and we are the majority of Americans, like it or not. Three million more of us voted for Hillary than voted for the demon.   We also are capable of knowing that it was outrageous for the gay community to expect a pride flag be flown above an American embassy, which is exactly the kind of issue that turns middle Americans directly away from the Democratic party. It's the kind of issue that all those other Democratic candidates running want to embrace because they want to look so "woke" that their eyes are about to explode.
If they want to attack Biden for being willing to talk to racists, all it will do is make centrist American think they are far too left for them. Because those Americans talk to their neighbors, whether they are racists or not. I certainly do, I even talk to YOU Pkr, did you notice?


If you're a Democrat, the party IS in trouble.

Deus X

Deus X

Uh-oh!

This is gonna be fun to watch.

RealLindaL



Floridatexan wrote:
bigdog wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Joe Biden, Recalling ‘Civility’ in Senate, Invokes Two Segregationist Senators

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/biden-segregationists.html

Hey, Pkr. I'm a Joe Biden voter. I don't care.
See, there's your problem. I didn't care about all the references to his "touching" women's hair. That didn't work.
I didn't care way back in 1988 or whenever it was that he was accused of plagiarism in college. It only  worked that time because dems had the choice of Bill Clinton. This time, Biden is the only game in town for moderates. So, I don't care. It won't work.
It won't work for any moderates out there. We won't give up on Biden. Because we don't want the fucking demon in the White House that is there now, and we are the majority of Americans, like it or not. Three million more of us voted for Hillary than voted for the demon.   We also are capable of knowing that it was outrageous for the gay community to expect a pride flag be flown above an American embassy, which is exactly the kind of issue that turns middle Americans directly away from the Democratic party. It's the kind of issue that all those other Democratic candidates running want to embrace because they want to look so "woke" that their eyes are about to explode.
If they want to attack Biden for being willing to talk to racists, all it will do is make centrist American think they are far too left for them. Because those Americans talk to their neighbors, whether they are racists or not. I certainly do, I even talk to YOU Pkr, did you notice?


If you're a Democrat, the party IS in trouble.

What, precisely, is so terrible about what bigdog said??

PkrBum

PkrBum

Too centrist would be my guess. Everybody knows what Joe was saying... it was in no way endorsing racism. Corey and AOC were just using it as a political opportunity to bash him. Just like that trump line about the "both sides" protestors. Objectivity is now becoming politically incorrect... so much so that twisting the truth becomes the newspeak truth and people actually believe it no matter how many times it's pointed out to them. See: FloTex

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

RealLindaL wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
bigdog wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Joe Biden, Recalling ‘Civility’ in Senate, Invokes Two Segregationist Senators

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/biden-segregationists.html

Hey, Pkr. I'm a Joe Biden voter. I don't care.
See, there's your problem. I didn't care about all the references to his "touching" women's hair. That didn't work.
I didn't care way back in 1988 or whenever it was that he was accused of plagiarism in college. It only  worked that time because dems had the choice of Bill Clinton. This time, Biden is the only game in town for moderates. So, I don't care. It won't work.
It won't work for any moderates out there. We won't give up on Biden. Because we don't want the fucking demon in the White House that is there now, and we are the majority of Americans, like it or not. Three million more of us voted for Hillary than voted for the demon.   We also are capable of knowing that it was outrageous for the gay community to expect a pride flag be flown above an American embassy, which is exactly the kind of issue that turns middle Americans directly away from the Democratic party. It's the kind of issue that all those other Democratic candidates running want to embrace because they want to look so "woke" that their eyes are about to explode.
If they want to attack Biden for being willing to talk to racists, all it will do is make centrist American think they are far too left for them. Because those Americans talk to their neighbors, whether they are racists or not. I certainly do, I even talk to YOU Pkr, did you notice?


If you're a Democrat, the party IS in trouble.

What, precisely, is so terrible about what bigdog said??

We don't need a "moderate". We need to exorcise the Reps that have been enabling the Orange Menace. We need to reverse the GOP tax cuts, reinstate the estate tax, stop the corporate mergers, raise the minimum wage, make sure that women have basic rights, and on and on. We need representation for the people. Joe keeps shooting himself in the foot. He may be trying to capture Republicans that are sick of Drumpf, but in the process, he's losing his own base.

And I can't think of a reason for US embassies to NOT recognize gay pride month. We have a local FL rep that laughed at the idea of killing gays. We have a *resident that won't acknowledge their autonomy and right to exist. And we have the worst inequality in our country since the end of George W Bush's tenure.

I support Elizabeth Warren. She has the credentials, the presence, the knowledge, the grace, and most important, a PLAN. I'd like to see her with a younger running mate, someone prepared to take the helm...one of the other candidates.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

PkrBum wrote:Too centrist would be my guess. Everybody knows what Joe was saying... it was in no way endorsing racism. Corey and AOC were just using it as a political opportunity to bash him. Just like that trump line about the "both sides" protestors. Objectivity is now becoming politically incorrect... so much so that twisting the truth becomes the newspeak truth and people actually believe it no matter how many times it's pointed out to them. See: FloTex

Kiss off, little troll. You have no objectivity to speak of, so your comment has to be projection.

bigdog



Floridatexan wrote:
bigdog wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Joe Biden, Recalling ‘Civility’ in Senate, Invokes Two Segregationist Senators

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/biden-segregationists.html





Hey, Pkr. I'm a Joe Biden voter. I don't care.
See, there's your problem. I didn't care about all the references to his "touching" women's hair. That didn't work.
I didn't care way back in 1988 or whenever it was that he was accused of plagiarism in college. It only  worked that time because dems had the choice of Bill Clinton. This time, Biden is the only game in town for moderates. So, I don't care. It won't work.
It won't work for any moderates out there. We won't give up on Biden. Because we don't want the fucking demon in the White House that is there now, and we are the majority of Americans, like it or not. Three million more of us voted for Hillary than voted for the demon.   We also are capable of knowing that it was outrageous for the gay community to expect a pride flag be flown above an American embassy, which is exactly the kind of issue that turns middle Americans directly away from the Democratic party. It's the kind of issue that all those other Democratic candidates running want to embrace because they want to look so "woke" that their eyes are about to explode.
If they want to attack Biden for being willing to talk to racists, all it will do is make centrist American think they are far too left for them. Because those Americans talk to their neighbors, whether they are racists or not. I certainly do, I even talk to YOU Pkr, did you notice?


If you're a Democrat, the party IS in trouble.



Oh, I AM a Democrat. I was even a delegate to the Fla. Democratic convention back in '03, and have earned my right to call myself a Dem by the hours I have walked the streets campaigning for various Democratic candidates. I'm a Clinton Democrat, FYI, and very proud to be so. I was the co-leader of Wes Clark's campaign here in Pensacola, because Wes Clark was a Clinton Democrat. When he dropped out, I went to work with John Edwards local campaign, because he was just barely to the left of the Clinton's. Joe Biden is a centrist, and Barack Obama's presidency was run as a centrist. The only progressive thing Obama did was his health care bill, and even then, he did not fight for full coverage for all Americans.

I firmly believe in the death penalty, but I don't believe citizens need assault weapons. Smaller arms should be an absolute right of American citizens. I don't believe in American exceptionalism, I don't believe we are better people than those born anywhere else on the planet, but I do believe in a strong defense. I have a lot of varying things in my brain that don't seem to always be consistent, and I like myself just fine that way.
But I AM a Democrat, and I am a Democratic party animal who wants to win the 2020 election. We won't win it by catering to every single special interest group in the country or by being snowflakes. Most Americans identify themselves as centrists, and more of them are Democrats than Republicans.
Snowflakes get on their nerves. They want to hear about better schools and not about gay flags above an embassy where any serious thinking person knows they do not belong.
I think that's what made you mad- that statement, right? I have gay friends, I know gay people are born that way, and that they should have every right that every single other American has, without prejudice.
Believing all that does not take from the fact that the gay pride flag is basically a symbol of how a certain segment of our society practices sex. When someone can logically tell me why it belongs on an embassy flagstaff, or any symbol of how anyone does sex belongs on any government building, kindly let me know. Also, the only reason the Israeli's want to put it on their flagstaffs is to piss off the Arab settlers nearby who would have to see it. It's vintage Netanyahu, and I'm not for anything that bastard wants to do to piss off his neighbors.

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