Police report says Brett Kavanaugh was in a barfight in 1985

But HE says he never had any problem with alcohol. How many lies does it take to prove perjury? Especially when you only have to prove it to two women Senators and maybe Jeff Flake.
I think the police report might just cook the goose.

Oh, here's another small problem that came out tonight. It seems that there are text messages that prove Kavanaugh was lining up friends to refute Ms Ramirez' allegations that he put his dick in her face. These text messages were sent out a couple of weeks ago. Here's the problem: Kavanaugh said at the hearing that he knew nothing of any allegations from Mrs Ramirez until he read them in the paper, just a week or so ago. So he's trying to protect himself from an accusation he claimed he knew nothing at all about.
He must be psychic.
Or a liar.
And a perjurer.

Coincidentally, I too was in a bar fight in 1985.  Two guys jumped me (over some girl) in the parking lot of this bar on Dyer Street in El Paso, TX.   I can't swear whether Judge Kavanaugh was one of the guys or not though ... or whether or not Dr Ford was or was not the girl.  Maybe the FBI can check up on their whereabouts for that summer?

bigdog wrote:Oh, here's another small problem that came out tonight. It seems that there are text messages that prove Kavanaugh was lining up friends to refute Ms Ramirez' allegations that he put his dick in her face. These text messages were sent out a couple of weeks ago. Here's the problem: Kavanaugh said at the hearing that he knew nothing of any allegations from Mrs Ramirez until he read them in the paper, just a week or so ago. So he's trying to protect himself from an accusation he claimed he knew nothing at all about.
He must be psychic.
Or a liar.
And a perjurer.

If this turns out to be true he shouldn't be allowed to judge dog and pony shows.

EmeraldGhost wrote:Coincidentally, I too was in a bar fight in 1985.

Did that assault "drastically alter your life"?

Were you filled with guilt and shame?

Did you try to suppress memories of the event?

Did talking or even thinking about it cause you to relive the trauma?

Did it cause panic attacks and anxiety?

Did you have to get couples therapy years later because you were so traumatized by the event?

Or did you just suck it up and get on with your goddamn life like every male adolescent does when he gets his ass kicked or suffers severe public humiliation?

Deus X wrote:

EmeraldGhost wrote:Coincidentally, I too was in a bar fight in 1985.

Did that assault "drastically alter your life"?

Were you filled with guilt and shame?

Did you try to suppress memories of the event?

Did talking or even thinking about it cause you to relive the trauma?

Did it cause panic attacks and anxiety?

Did you have to get couples therapy years later because you were so traumatized by the event?

Or did you just suck it up and get on with your goddamn life like every male adolescent does when he gets his ass kicked or suffers severe public humiliation?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no.  ( And I say that with much emotion in a little-boy voice with my voice sometimes cracking a little bit.)

I'm still traumatized and been in therapy ever since.  I think about it every day and sometimes just burst into tears for no reason.  I often can't sleep at night, and when I do I dream about it.  I can't work, of course.

Somebody should pay for my pain.  The government or somebody should give me some money.  Or maybe a book deal?  Okay, maybe not a book deal  ...  but an Oprah or Ellen interview at least?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/us/politics/kavanaugh-bar-fight.html

Doesn't sound like much of a "fight" to me.

Dog bites man.

Evidence keeps piling up, and Trump supporters keep saying "There's no evidence!" They're just dismissing anything they get as not conclusive enough. It's all a gamble that nobody's going to be able to pull out anything ironclad on an incident that happened over 30 years ago. And, that's a pretty safe gamble, because given the nature of the incidents it's always going to be he-said she-said. There's almost no way to come up with anything ironclad.

But, meanwhile, there are plenty of witnesses giving detailed accounts that call the guy's character into question. Whatever happens, they best they can end up with is a justice that a big section of the country is never going to trust.

The guy's a bad choice, bottom line. I know the Republicans are worried about losing the house and maybe the senate in a month, but I highly doubt Democrats would be able to sit out confirming anyone who was well-qualified for for two years. If this was 2020, there'd be more of a case made for this "running out the clock" thing. But, that's two years off. Kavanaugh's just a bad pick. He proved that much in his hearing, with his asshole demeanor and conspiracy theorizing.

If Trump wasn't so needy for this guy to circumvent the rule of law on his behalf, they'd just say, "Look, it's obvious this pick is too contentious, we'll bring in another." Democrats didn't like Gorsuch much, but he got in fairly easily, because he apparently doesn't have a past as a drunk rapist. There hasn't been a lot of squawking about him. I know elections have consequences, we're gonna get a conservative on the Supreme Court... but jeez, even the Republicans can do better than this fucking brat.

This might as well have been Kavanaugh at his hearing:



His behavior wasn't far off from that. This scene was the first thing he reminded me of.

It did not say whether anyone was arrested, and there is no indication that charges were filed.

However, thirty plus years later we are going to judge guilt or innocence. I personally like the thought of somebody defending themselves. I understand that Sal and the wussified American males will be appalled that a man held his ground. I am really starting to like this guy, not much use for some of his decisions, but like him for his tenacity. He will be confirmed despite this big hissy fit. I never thought I would live long enough to see such sniveling wussification of America.....do not drink, play football, and get in scuffles in college bars.....geez, at least Belushi died before he had to witness this destruction of American males. Brett smoked a cigar in fifth grade and looked at a penthouse magazine which exploited women.

This man will be easily confirmed as this nonsense becomes more bizarre. Please give me an example in the last 15 years of all grown up Brett drinking in excess, fighting, assaulting women, or any other behavior deemed inappropriate by the wussy guards of America?

doesn't have a past as a drunk rapist.

I guess all those insane allegations against President Obama and SOS Clinton were dismissed as Obama derangement syndrome, but this Trump derangement syndrome has simply become hilarious for me......I mean really if you are going to slander a person on a forum, please give us the evidence of him raping someone, but even worse.....being a drunk rapist. I mean raping sober is a real character booster. People have lost their minds in this hissy fit.

2seaoat wrote:It did not say whether anyone was arrested, and there is no indication that charges were filed.

However, thirty plus years later we are going to judge guilt or innocence.  I personally like the thought of somebody defending themselves.  I understand that Sal and the wussified American males will be appalled that a man held his ground.  I am really starting to like this guy, not much use for some of his decisions, but like him for his tenacity.  He will be confirmed despite this big hissy fit.  I never thought I would live long enough to see such sniveling wussification of America.....do not drink, play football, and get in scuffles in college bars.....geez, at least Belushi died before he had to witness this destruction of American males.  Brett smoked a cigar in fifth grade and looked at a penthouse magazine which exploited women.

This man will be easily confirmed as this nonsense becomes more bizarre. Please give me an example in the last 15 years of all grown up Brett drinking in excess, fighting, assaulting women, or any other behavior deemed inappropriate by the wussy guards of America?

I never drank, or did drugs. I was straightedge. This is what went on at straightedge shows, by the way, just in case you think anything was "wussified" about not drinking or doping.



Despite not drinking, I got in plenty of fights. You didn't get to be a metal-punk-atheist in 70's and 80's Mississippi without getting in fights. Some involved knives. At least one tried to involve a gun until I fixed his hand so he couldn't hold one.

A lot of the people I fought with were guys just like Brett Kavanaugh. They aren't "tough" -- they're scared little peezles who have to pack up and tank up before they'll get in a ruck. If frat-rats are "non-wussy" to you, then we got different standards. But my problem with him isn't that he got in a scuffle in a bar, or that he drank. It's that he did it and then got on FOX News and tried to claim he was a virgin and spent his college days pretty much going to quilting bees. The guy's a damn liar.

Brett Kavanaugh is a tantrum-throwing asshole. He was in college and high school, and judging by his performance at the hearing, he still is. You can like that, if you want, but if you do, then, congratulations, you like a tantrum-throwing asshole.

Whether you like the little frat-boy or not, he doesn't appear to have the temper, or the lack of bias, to be a good candidate for Supreme Court Justice. It's already clear that he's misrepresenting himself, as per his college drinking. It's not a "you were a drinker in college so now you can't have this job" issue -- it's a "you lied about it" issue. He put in a bad job interview for managing a Hardees, much less being a Supreme Court judge. And I don't give a damn if you'd like to have a cigar with the sonofabitch or not, he acted the way he acted, and that's it.

You talk about "snivelling wussification"... dude, did you see this asshole? He SNIVELED. He's the only grown man I remember seeing actually SNIVELING.



"Boo hoo hooo, muh calendars, *sniffle!* I loves muh calendars... muh dad, the old stories... whimper."

You think that ain't wussified sniveling? Sheesh. Like him if you insist, but don't try to sell me this twerp as some kind of machismo icon.


And all of this is aside from the attempted-rape allegations. Personally, I believe the women. And if you ever raped or tried to rape a woman, I don't even particularly want you to have oxygen, much less a place on the supreme court. That's how I see it, and I'll admit I'm not very tolerant when it comes to people who sexually abuse women. I've got friends, girlfriends, and family members who went through that, so my sympathy for an abuser is fucking zero. And the fact is, three credible accusers have filed against this guy, at great risk to themselves. If it were just a partisan witch-hunt, then similar would have happened to Gorsuch, but, it didn't. I believe the women. But, whether you think Kavanaugh actually did those things or not, there are enough other reasons why he wouldn't make a good candidate for the highest seat of judgement in the nation.

33 years ago BK threw some ice at someone in a bar!!!! WOW!!! EEEWWWW....

How LOW can you go? What's next - he peed in a neighbors flower bed when he was 4 years old???

What a bunch of unmitigated BS. The Dems will regret this farce down the road when they try to get someone on the SC. And they will deserve it. The unanswered question right now is what if those women are lying or exaggerating? Not that it matters to liberals of course but interesting nonetheless.

Perhaps BK can convince Hillary to dust off her lawyer crap and defend him against these accusations like she did Wild Bill, once to the tune of $850,000 paid to Paula Jones.

https://www.businessinsider.com/these-are-the-sexual-assault-allegations-against-bill-clinton-2017-11

But, whether you think Kavanaugh actually did those things or not, there are enough other reasons why he wouldn't make a good candidate for the highest seat of judgement in the nation.



I could speak of at least three of his cases which I strongly disagree and believe his logic is flawed. That would have been a legitimate traditional Judicial confirmation hearing where relevant cases allow senators to grill the judges. However, this started with the proposition that we must break all rules to stop this man.....including common sense an due process. I mean this comes as no surprise. It was announced and executed. Damn the rules of relevancy and due process, and lets let the internet determine probative value of an event in a bar over thirty years ago......brilliant. You either have principles or you do not. I did not want any of Trump nominees appointed to the Supreme Court, but to suggest this man is not qualified because of this chit show.....and that chit show should be rewarded by a vote against this man......I would rather bear the pain of his decisions which I am mostly in disagreement, than to deny this man fundamental due process and fairness. He just resigned from teaching at Harvard. A loss to all. Salem witch hunts are child's play compared to what has been done to this man.....again, start with the proposition that anything goes to stop this nomination, and the results should not surprise anybody.

2seaoat wrote:doesn't have a past as a drunk rapist.

I guess all those insane allegations against President Obama and SOS Clinton were dismissed as Obama derangement syndrome, but this Trump derangement syndrome has simply become hilarious for me......I mean really if you are going to slander a person on a forum, please give us the evidence of him raping someone, but even worse.....being a drunk rapist.  I mean raping sober is a real character booster.  People have lost their minds in this hissy fit.

I don't think they'll come up with iron-clad proof of something that happened 30-some years ago and which left no physical evidence. That's what Republicans -- and apparently you, since you've married yourself to this guy for some weird reason -- are counting on. Even if they did turn up with a stained dress or something, Republicans would just go, "How do we know it wasn't consensual?" I mean, they've already tried the "it was his evil twin!" argument, so it's obvious they aren't going to accept anything, no matter what. Turn up videotape and they'll say, "Oh, that was some other guy wearing a Brett Kavanaugh mask, which were very popular at the time!" They've made up their minds what's "true" and they're gonna stick to it.

What we do have -- which admittedly isn't "proof" but is pretty damn compelling -- are the testimonies of three women, one of whom testified to congress, and another of whom issued a sworn affidavit that has criminal liability if she perjured herself. I doubt any of them would risk ruining their lives just to keep one conservative off the Supreme Court when they know he'd only be replaced by another. We also have Kavanaugh's yearbook, which is full of references to his own jerk behavior, which he's not lying his ass off to claim is just "innocent boyhood fun" or whatever. Hogwash.

It's always going to come down to who you believe -- a guy who's already proven to have misrepresented himself, or multiple people with sworn accusations. I believe the accusers, though I know the likelihood of actual "proof" -- for either their story or Kavanaugh's -- is something we're not likely to see, given the time frame involved and the nature of the incidents. Republicans know that and they're hanging their hopes on it... not because they really think Kavanaugh is innocent, but because they think he can get away with it.

gatorfan wrote:33 years ago BK threw some ice at someone in a bar!!!! WOW!!! EEEWWWW....

How LOW can you go? What's next - he peed in a neighbors flower bed when he was 4 years old???

Nobody's trying to keep him off the court because he threw ice 30-some years ago. The issue is that he lied about his level of drinking. He misrepresented himself to Congress.

I could care less if a judge got in a drunken brawl when he was 20, as long as he got a handle on that shit since then.

I do care if he sexually assaulted women... which likely won't be absolutely provable to anyone's satisfaction one way or another, given the time frame and he-said-she-said nature of it. But he's proven to be an unreliable witness for himself, especially after his FOX News "I was an innocent doe-eyed virgin!" bullshit, and multiple accusers have put themselves as personal risk to speak out against him. If it's gonna be he-said-she-said, sorry, but I'm believing the she's.

As for Dems paying for this when they try to put someone on the supreme court, I'll just remind you once again that Gorsuch, Roberts, and Alito got in without any such accusations... because, I'd supposed, they aren't guilty of them.

I know everybody's partisan-as-fuck, but does it ever occur to ya that just maybe the reason this guy's being called a sexual assaulter is because... he's a sexual assaulter? Sometimes things are what they are.

And if Dems tried to nominate someone who did attempt rape, I'd want that motherfucker weeded out. I don't think that what Al Franken did was necessarily enough to get him removed from the senate, but what he did do was stupid, crass, and ignorant, and there's a price to be paid for that. I hated losing him because he was a good senator, but, he did something stupid and if it cost him his seat, then those are the breaks, it's his own fault. Same with Bill Clinton -- he did something stupid and I'm not defending him over it. Will I defend other things he did as president? Yeah. Do I think he's a good person? No.

Meanwhile, a lot of evangelicals actually believe pussy-grabber Trump was installed by Gawd Hisself. Talk about crazy...

2seaoat wrote:It did not say whether anyone was arrested, and there is no indication that charges were filed.

However, thirty plus years later we are going to judge guilt or innocence.  I personally like the thought of somebody defending themselves.  I understand that Sal and the wussified American males will be appalled that a man held his ground.  I am really starting to like this guy, not much use for some of his decisions, but like him for his tenacity.  He will be confirmed despite this big hissy fit.  I never thought I would live long enough to see such sniveling wussification of America.....do not drink, play football, and get in scuffles in college bars.....geez, at least Belushi died before he had to witness this destruction of American males.  Brett smoked a cigar in fifth grade and looked at a penthouse magazine which exploited women.

This man will be easily confirmed as this nonsense becomes more bizarre. Please give me an example in the last 15 years of all grown up Brett drinking in excess, fighting, assaulting women, or any other behavior deemed inappropriate by the wussy guards of America?

 


Oh Good God, he started the fight by throwing a drink at the man. He was mistaken about who the guy was and he refused to admit his mistake. How many hundreds of people have to come forward to testify that he was an obnoxious, belligerent drunk before you'll shut up?
HE LIED TO THE SENATE OAT. THAT'S WHY HE SHOULD NOT BE CONFIRMED.
I never cared for John Belushi's comedy, so I don't give a damn if he died before or after the so called "destruction of American males." He wasted his time with the comedy. He was a good actor in Continental Divide.That's the only time I ever saw him that I could stand him.
The Macho Man age ended years ago Seaoat. It didn't start with the Metoo movement.
Belushi was playing a dinosaur. Even he was making fun of that kind of male. You didn't get that, did you?

zsomething wrote:

2seaoat wrote:It did not say whether anyone was arrested, and there is no indication that charges were filed.

However, thirty plus years later we are going to judge guilt or innocence.  I personally like the thought of somebody defending themselves.  I understand that Sal and the wussified American males will be appalled that a man held his ground.  I am really starting to like this guy, not much use for some of his decisions, but like him for his tenacity.  He will be confirmed despite this big hissy fit.  I never thought I would live long enough to see such sniveling wussification of America.....do not drink, play football, and get in scuffles in college bars.....geez, at least Belushi died before he had to witness this destruction of American males.  Brett smoked a cigar in fifth grade and looked at a penthouse magazine which exploited women.

This man will be easily confirmed as this nonsense becomes more bizarre. Please give me an example in the last 15 years of all grown up Brett drinking in excess, fighting, assaulting women, or any other behavior deemed inappropriate by the wussy guards of America?

I never drank, or did drugs.  I was straightedge.  This is what went on at straightedge shows, by the way, just in case you think anything was "wussified" about not drinking or doping.



Despite not drinking, I got in plenty of fights.  You didn't get to be a metal-punk-atheist in 70's and 80's Mississippi without getting in fights.  Some involved knives.  At least one tried to involve a gun until I fixed his hand so he couldn't hold one.  

A lot of the people I fought with were guys just like Brett Kavanaugh.  They aren't "tough" -- they're scared little peezles who have to pack up and tank up before they'll get in a ruck.   If frat-rats are "non-wussy" to you, then we got different standards.  But my problem with him isn't that he got in a scuffle in a bar, or that he drank.  It's that he did it and then got on FOX News and tried to claim he was a virgin and spent his college days pretty much going to quilting bees.  The guy's a damn liar.

Brett Kavanaugh is a tantrum-throwing asshole.   He was in college and high school, and judging by his performance at the hearing, he still is.  You can like that, if you want, but if you do, then, congratulations, you like a tantrum-throwing asshole.  

Whether you like the little frat-boy or not, he doesn't appear to have the temper, or the lack of bias, to be a good candidate for Supreme Court Justice.   It's already clear that he's misrepresenting himself, as per his college drinking.   It's not a "you were a drinker in college so now you can't have this job" issue -- it's a "you lied about it" issue.  He put in a bad job interview for managing a Hardees, much less being a Supreme Court judge.   And I don't give a damn if you'd like to have a cigar with the sonofabitch or not, he acted the way he acted, and that's it.

You talk about "snivelling wussification"... dude, did you see this asshole?   He SNIVELED.  He's the only grown man I remember seeing actually SNIVELING.



"Boo hoo hooo, muh calendars, *sniffle!* I loves muh calendars... muh dad, the old stories... whimper."

You think that ain't wussified sniveling?  Sheesh.   Like him if you insist, but don't try to sell me this twerp as some kind of machismo icon.


And all of this is aside from the attempted-rape allegations.   Personally, I believe the women.   And if you ever raped or tried to rape a woman, I don't even particularly want you to have oxygen, much less a place on the supreme court.   That's how I see it, and I'll admit I'm not very tolerant when it comes to people who sexually abuse women.   I've got friends, girlfriends, and family members who went through that, so my sympathy for an abuser is fucking zero.   And the fact is, three credible accusers have filed against this guy, at great risk to themselves.  If it were just a partisan witch-hunt, then similar would have happened to Gorsuch, but, it didn't.  I believe the women.  But, whether you think Kavanaugh actually did those things or not, there are enough other reasons why he wouldn't make a good candidate for the highest seat of judgement in the nation.

AMEN X a million, z-something!

Seaoat, for chrissakes, for once in you life, LISTEN TO SOMEONE ELSE who's making a LOT of sense.   JUST THIS ONCE, if never before or after, allow that, despite your best intentions and instincts, you were mistaken in this case, even if it means abandoning your week-long rants in defense of this absolutely LOUSY candidate.  

But silly me -- I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that, once you glom onto a cause, it's Katy bar the door when it comes to logic, truth, and common sense.  You are one big bag of furious emotion, your own super hero in defense of anyone you deem unfairly denigrated, and once you've picked that position you will never in a million years change your stance, even in the face of every good reason to do so.

I can understand why certain forum members are losing any modicum of respect they ever had for you.

Phhhlllllbbbbtttt!!!!!!!!!!          

2seaoat wrote: Salem witch hunts are child's play compared to what has been done to this man.....again, start with the proposition that anything goes to stop this nomination, and the results should not surprise anybody.

I know you're married to this idea and are having a ball digging your heels in, but entertain me for just a second by considering something:

What if it's not a witch hunt? What if the women accusing him came forward because he actually did the things they say he did, and, because of his character, they don't think he deserves a seat on the court.

Now... I know, it's 30 years ago and more, but... saying the women are accurate and truthful, which they may well be and you can't prove otherwise, would you be comfortable with an attempted rapist being on the Supreme Court? Even if he was only 17, 18, 19, 20 at the time? Would you excuse that?

I freely admit, I would not. But, I'm admittedly an extremist when it comes to rapists -- I'm in favor of expanding the death penalty to cover them, IF it's iron-clad provable that they did it. Which it wouldn't be in most cases. This case, for instance, would not be iron-clad provable, I admit, so I'm not suggesting the death penalty or even jail time for Kavanaugh 30 years later. Whatever the FBI digs for and uncovers, it's always likely to remain he-said-she-said, with people dismissing everybody who doesn't support their own view of it. Anybody who likes Kavanaugh's going to ignore every witness against him, and everybody who doesn't like him is going to not believe his denials. I get that.

But, supposing what Dr. Ford, and Mrs. Swetnick, and Mrs. Ramirez have to say are true. Should they have just kept their mouths shut? What, exactly, recourse would you allow them? Are they not allowed to voice their concerns or have their stories told? Is there anything they could say about it that would get you to not characterize it as a "witch hunt"?

Seems you're taking up for this guy because you have a weird idea that he's a "manly-man" (sorry, but he looks like all kinds of a cryin'-ass snively cunt to me, but, we differ) and all this, but... just supposing these three women who've sworn to their stories are telling the truth: what rights would you allow them? I'm interested to know that.

bigdog wrote:
The Macho Man age ended years ago Seaoat.

It never ended for Seaoat. I have it on good authority that it's him in the black leather rig and he's been living off the residuals ever since:

He never denied drinking. He denied blacking out. His behavior was better than mine in college and graduate school.

2seaoat wrote:He never denied drinking.  He denied blacking out.  His behavior was better than mine in college and graduate school.  

That's no longer the issue. It's his perjury and his unstable behavior in front of the committee now. HE WILL NOT BE CONFIRMED.

Now... I know, it's 30 years ago and more, but... saying the women are accurate and truthful, which they may well be and you can't prove otherwise, would you be comfortable with an attempted rapist being on the Supreme Court? Even if he was only 17, 18, 19, 20 at the time? Would you excuse that?

I just wish people could spend a year in a sex crime courtroom, and realize that this is much ado about absolutely nothing. You use the word attempted rape......how do you make such an outrageous claim? I could argue equally that it was playful wrestling on the bed where an intoxicated girl misinterpreted something non sexual with rough housing, including the covering of the mouth. Would I be wrong? We will never know because courts have learned over thousands of years that we need a gatekeeper on irrelevant evidence. My answer to your question is that this was a juvenile and our entire legal system is based on the irrelevancy of youth.....so much so that these records evaporate after five years. This man should be confirmed if for no other reason than to assure the rule of law still has meaning in this country and common sense and decency will prevail. I have had girls in my dorm room where there was some wrestling and some fun......gosh......I guess I am a rapist.