HomeI don't know where you get "alleged collusion" but you apparently haven't been paying attention or you don't know what evidence is.
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28 Re: Flynn Charged 12/2/2017, 9:23 am
PkrBum
Vikingwoman wrote:I don't know where you get "alleged collusion" but you apparently haven't been paying attention or you don't know what evidence is.
Then tell us what evidence of collusion you know as fact.
29 Re: Flynn Charged 12/2/2017, 10:38 am
Vikingwoman
It wouldn't matter to you, Pkr. You'd still deny it.
30 Re: Flynn Charged 12/2/2017, 10:45 am
PkrBum
Vikingwoman wrote:It wouldn't matter to you, Pkr. You'd still deny it.
Riiiiight
31 Re: Flynn Charged 12/2/2017, 12:29 pm
EmeraldGhost
Vikingwoman wrote:I don't know where you get "alleged collusion" but you apparently haven't been paying attention or you don't know what evidence is.
I put it that way because I know that things like "collusion", "obstruction", "quid pro quo", etc can often be in the eyes of the beholder. And, in the case of Donald Trump, if the beholder happens to be a Republican controlled House of Representives, well ......
32 Re: Flynn Charged 12/2/2017, 9:01 pm
bigdog
After he admitted just today that he fired Flynn because Flynn lied to the VP and to the FBI, there's no longer any doubt the the POTUS obstructed justice. He did it when he fired James Comey, that's obvious, because he's already said he wanted Comey to stop the Russian investigation and fired him when he would not. that's an out and out confession.
Today's statement, that Trump KNEW that Flynn had lied to the FBI back in January (again, from Trump's own stupid mouth, we don't need more testimony) is an admission that he knew a felony had been committed and did not notify the FBI of it.
All these corroborating witnesses are nice, but Donald Trump is the best witness the justice department has in its case against him.
His lawyer needs to put a muzzle on him.
I'm happy though, because I firmly believe that DT will be impeached eventually. I never thought it until Friday morning, but people in this country won't stand for Congress not acting once the absolute proof of criminal activity is out there for everyone to see.
Today's statement, that Trump KNEW that Flynn had lied to the FBI back in January (again, from Trump's own stupid mouth, we don't need more testimony) is an admission that he knew a felony had been committed and did not notify the FBI of it.
All these corroborating witnesses are nice, but Donald Trump is the best witness the justice department has in its case against him.
His lawyer needs to put a muzzle on him.
I'm happy though, because I firmly believe that DT will be impeached eventually. I never thought it until Friday morning, but people in this country won't stand for Congress not acting once the absolute proof of criminal activity is out there for everyone to see.
33 Re: Flynn Charged 12/2/2017, 10:55 pm
EmeraldGhost
bigdog wrote:After he admitted just today that he fired Flynn because Flynn lied to the VP and to the FBI, there's no longer any doubt the the POTUS obstructed justice .....
Well, ya wouldn't know that listening to the likes of Matt Gaetz.
Quick ... someone remind me .. which chamber of the Congress is it that decides matters of impeaching of the President?
34 Re: Flynn Charged 12/2/2017, 11:59 pm
bigdog
If it gets so absolutely clear to the public that he's committed a crime I think even the House will be compelled to charge him.
I know they don't want to, but I think a lot of them wouldn't mind Mike Pence being POTUS either.
And if he's charged, I think there will be enough Republican Senators that he's made angry to convict.
I think the whole thing hinges on the fact that a lot of Church people might jump at the chance to get Pence into office instead of Trump. If that movement starts, Trump will be toast.
I know they don't want to, but I think a lot of them wouldn't mind Mike Pence being POTUS either.
And if he's charged, I think there will be enough Republican Senators that he's made angry to convict.
I think the whole thing hinges on the fact that a lot of Church people might jump at the chance to get Pence into office instead of Trump. If that movement starts, Trump will be toast.
35 Re: Flynn Charged 12/3/2017, 11:00 am
Vikingwoman
Trump will resign. The question is will Hillary contest the election and will congress vote in laws to prevent a fraudulent election again?
36 Re: Flynn Charged 12/3/2017, 12:29 pm
Floridatexan
bigdog wrote:If it gets so absolutely clear to the public that he's committed a crime I think even the House will be compelled to charge him.
I know they don't want to, but I think a lot of them wouldn't mind Mike Pence being POTUS either.
And if he's charged, I think there will be enough Republican Senators that he's made angry to convict.
I think the whole thing hinges on the fact that a lot of Church people might jump at the chance to get Pence into office instead of Trump. If that movement starts, Trump will be toast.
Pence was there through the whole process. Do you really believe he wasn't complicit?
37 Re: Flynn Charged 12/3/2017, 12:42 pm
EmeraldGhost
bigdog wrote:If it gets so absolutely clear to the public that he's committed a crime I think even the House will be compelled to charge him.
....
Was it "absolutely clear to the public" Bill Clinton committed perjury when he stated under oath "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"? That's not "whataboutism" ... it's just to illustrate that the American public has a short memory when it comes to political scandal and politicians know that. So long as they can put this thing to bed well before the 2020 race begins in earnest, whatever the outcome, people will tend to forget and/or minimize it in their minds.
Whether the President has committed "high crimes and misdemeanors" and if the particular offense(s) warrant actual removal from office (or perhaps some other sanction short of removal from office instead), is a political matter to be decided by politicians in a legislative body, not a legal matter to be decided in a court of law with a judge and a jury.
Sure they could remove Trump and get Pence who would, of course, be preferable to many Republicans in the Congress. But in doing so, what would be the damage to the Republican "brand?" So long as they believe Trump will rubber-stamp their legislation ... a Republican controlled Congress will be reluctant to "convict" and actually remove him in impeachment proceedings.
Or the House could impeach Trump and the Senate sanction him with "censor" as they did Clinton.
I think instead the Republican dominated Congress will try & stick with Trump, and perhaps try and get Pence to run in 2020 instead of Trump. Trump could always find some excuse to bow out of the 2020 race ... health reasons for example. Trump's never had any qualms about walking away from some project that wasn't going so well for him, and leave others holding the bag.
That's just how I'm thinking about it this morning. My assessment/opinion could always change by afternoon.
Last edited by EmeraldGhost on 12/3/2017, 1:06 pm; edited 3 times in total
38 Re: Flynn Charged 12/3/2017, 12:47 pm
EmeraldGhost
Vikingwoman wrote:Trump will resign. The question is will Hillary contest the election and will congress vote in laws to prevent a fraudulent election again?
Nah. He might find some excuse to bow out of the 2020 race. But IMO he won't resign.
Hillary? Hillary who? Hillary is toast. She may remain around the fringes of politics for a few more years, but she'll never be a major player/contender again. Her contesting the election is about as likely as Bernie contesting the shenanigans with the 2016 Democrat primary. A lot of people don't like her much anyway I think (although I do know my sister is a huge fan.)
As to the Republican dominated Congress passing new election laws .... yeah, I don't think that's even on their radar.
39 Re: Flynn Charged 12/3/2017, 5:02 pm
PkrBum
http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/02/media/abc-news-brian-ross/index.html
ABC News announced Saturday that it has suspended investigative reporter Brian Ross for four weeks without pay after Ross was forced to correct a bombshell on-air report about Michael Flynn.
"We deeply regret and apologize for the serious error we made yesterday. The reporting conveyed by Brian Ross during the special report had not been fully vetted through our editorial standards process," ABC said in a statement. "As a result of our continued reporting over the next several hours ultimately we determined the information was wrong and we corrected the mistake on air and online."
"It is vital we get the story right and retain the trust we have built with our audience -- these are our core principles," the statement added. "We fell far short of that yesterday."
Citing a single anonymous source, Ross told viewers during an ABC special report on Friday morning that Flynn was prepared to testify that Donald Trump, as a candidate for president, told him to contact Russians.
ABC News announced Saturday that it has suspended investigative reporter Brian Ross for four weeks without pay after Ross was forced to correct a bombshell on-air report about Michael Flynn.
"We deeply regret and apologize for the serious error we made yesterday. The reporting conveyed by Brian Ross during the special report had not been fully vetted through our editorial standards process," ABC said in a statement. "As a result of our continued reporting over the next several hours ultimately we determined the information was wrong and we corrected the mistake on air and online."
"It is vital we get the story right and retain the trust we have built with our audience -- these are our core principles," the statement added. "We fell far short of that yesterday."
Citing a single anonymous source, Ross told viewers during an ABC special report on Friday morning that Flynn was prepared to testify that Donald Trump, as a candidate for president, told him to contact Russians.
40 Re: Flynn Charged 12/3/2017, 5:45 pm
Vikingwoman
EmeraldGhost wrote:Vikingwoman wrote:Trump will resign. The question is will Hillary contest the election and will congress vote in laws to prevent a fraudulent election again?
Nah. He might find some excuse to bow out of the 2020 race. But IMO he won't resign.
Hillary? Hillary who? Hillary is toast. She may remain around the fringes of politics for a few more years, but she'll never be a major player/contender again. Her contesting the election is about as likely as Bernie contesting the shenanigans with the 2016 Democrat primary. A lot of people don't like her much anyway I think (although I do know my sister is a huge fan.)
As to the Republican dominated Congress passing new election laws .... yeah, I don't think that's even on their radar.
65 million people voted for Hillary Clinton. I'd say a lot of people like her. She has already said she won't rule out contesting it.
41 Re: Flynn Charged 12/3/2017, 5:47 pm
Vikingwoman
PkrBum wrote:http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/02/media/abc-news-brian-ross/index.html
ABC News announced Saturday that it has suspended investigative reporter Brian Ross for four weeks without pay after Ross was forced to correct a bombshell on-air report about Michael Flynn.
"We deeply regret and apologize for the serious error we made yesterday. The reporting conveyed by Brian Ross during the special report had not been fully vetted through our editorial standards process," ABC said in a statement. "As a result of our continued reporting over the next several hours ultimately we determined the information was wrong and we corrected the mistake on air and online."
"It is vital we get the story right and retain the trust we have built with our audience -- these are our core principles," the statement added. "We fell far short of that yesterday."
Citing a single anonymous source, Ross told viewers during an ABC special report on Friday morning that Flynn was prepared to testify that Donald Trump, as a candidate for president, told him to contact Russians.
Fox News was sued in 2004 by the FCC for false reporting and won the appeal w/ the appeals court acknowledging they lie and saying it's not illegal. So what's your point?
42 Re: Flynn Charged 12/3/2017, 6:15 pm
RealLindaL
OK, so now we're supposed to believe that someone else (Trump's personal attorney) "drafted" the incriminating tweet, and it was "sloppy" and thus erroneous. Riiiiiight
Trump's lawyer says he was behind president's tweet about firing Flynn
What's erroneous is anyone's thinking the public is gullible enough to buy yet more lies.
Trump's lawyer says he was behind president's tweet about firing Flynn
What's erroneous is anyone's thinking the public is gullible enough to buy yet more lies.
43 Re: Flynn Charged 12/3/2017, 8:48 pm
Vikingwoman
That lawyer should be recommended for disbarment for trying to cover up evidence in a crime for his client.
44 Re: Flynn Charged 12/4/2017, 2:57 am
RealLindaL
Vikingwoman wrote:That lawyer should be recommended for disbarment for trying to cover up evidence in a crime for his client.
Agreed - if it can be proven he's lying.
45 Re: Flynn Charged 12/4/2017, 9:55 am
PkrBum
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/02/us/politics/mueller-removed-top-fbi-agent-over-possible-anti-trump-texts.html
WASHINGTON — The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, removed a top F.B.I. agent this summer from his investigation into Russian election meddling after the Justice Department’s inspector general began examining whether the agent had sent text messages that expressed anti-Trump political views, according to three people briefed on the matter.
The agent, Peter Strzok, is considered one of the most experienced and trusted F.B.I. counterintelligence investigators. He helped lead the investigation into whether Hillary Clinton had mishandled classified information on her private email account, and then played a major role in the investigation into links between President Trump’s campaign and Russia.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/04/anti-trump-text-messages-show-pattern-of-bias-on-muellers-team/
For nearly four months, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office, the Justice Department and the FBI have kept secret the fact that the FBI agent who oversaw the Russia investigation exchanged anti-Trump and pro-Hillary Clinton text messages with an FBI attorney who was also his mistress.
Those messages, the existence of which were revealed in bombshell reports published over the weekend, highlight a pattern of the Mueller team.
Many of Mueller’s prosecutors — it has been extensively reported — have made campaign contributions to Clinton and other Democratic political candidates. And a review by The Daily Caller shows that Mueller lawyers involved in the cases against four Trump associates are Democratic donors.
But Peter Strzok’s text messages — which he exchanged with Jill Page, an FBI lawyer who worked briefly on the Russia investigation — are perhaps the most significant evidence of anti-Trump bias uncovered so far on the Mueller team.
The discovery could also undermine the integrity of Mueller’s expansive investigation. That’s because Strzok is the FBI agent picked in July 2016 to supervise the then-fledgling investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian government.
Strzok’s central role in the probe is already raising questions about how and why the collusion investigation was opened in the first place.
Carter Page, a former Trump campaign adviser targeted in the early stages of the investigation, told TheDC on Sunday that he is “curious…whether [Strzok’s] fingerprints” are on a secret surveillance warrant taken out against him in Sept. 2016, just after he left the Trump team.
It is unclear what information was used in the application for the warrant, though it has been reported that the infamous and uncorroborated Steele dossier was cited.
Page is accused in the dossier of being the Trump campaign’s collusion contact with the Kremlin, an allegation he vehemently denies.
The Trump-Russia investigation was opened several weeks after Christopher Steele, the author of the dossier, first briefed FBI agents. The former British spy was working at the time for an opposition research firm that had been hired by the Clinton campaign and DNC to investigate Trump’s dealings in Russia.
Another unanswered mystery in the text message scandal is why Strzok’s politically-biased comments would be so problematic for Mueller given that many of the lawyers working under him have showed their political leanings in other ways.
At least nine of Mueller’s prosecutors have donated to Democratic political candidates. And all of the legal actions taken so far in Mueller’s investigation have involved pro-Democrat prosecutors.
The lawyers working the money laundering case against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his associate, Rick Gates, have donated to Obama’s presidential campaigns.
Andrew Weissmann, a veteran Justice Department prosecutor, gave $2,300 to Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign. He donated $2,000 to the DNC in 2006. Andrew Goldstein, who is working the case with Weissmann, contributed $3,300 to Obama’s campaigns in 2008 and 2012.
One of the attorneys handling the case against former Trump adviser George Papadopoulos has also contributed heavily to Democrats.
Jeannie Rhee, who served as a deputy assistant attorney general in the Obama administration, contributed $5,400 to Clinton’s campaign during the 2016 cycle. She also contributed $7,300 to Obama’s presidential campaigns. Papadopoulos pleaded guilty in October to lying to the FBI about contacts he had with Russians during the campaign.
A former partner at Mueller’s old law firm, Wilmer Hale, Rhee has also represented Clinton and her family charity the Clinton Foundation in a 2015 lawsuit seeking access to the former secretary of state’s personal emails.
Brandon Van Grack, one of the lawyers who secured a guilty plea against former national security adviser Michael Flynn, has also donated to Obama. A national security prosecutor with the DOJ, Van Grack contributed around $300 to Obama’s 2008 campaign.
WASHINGTON — The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, removed a top F.B.I. agent this summer from his investigation into Russian election meddling after the Justice Department’s inspector general began examining whether the agent had sent text messages that expressed anti-Trump political views, according to three people briefed on the matter.
The agent, Peter Strzok, is considered one of the most experienced and trusted F.B.I. counterintelligence investigators. He helped lead the investigation into whether Hillary Clinton had mishandled classified information on her private email account, and then played a major role in the investigation into links between President Trump’s campaign and Russia.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/04/anti-trump-text-messages-show-pattern-of-bias-on-muellers-team/
For nearly four months, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office, the Justice Department and the FBI have kept secret the fact that the FBI agent who oversaw the Russia investigation exchanged anti-Trump and pro-Hillary Clinton text messages with an FBI attorney who was also his mistress.
Those messages, the existence of which were revealed in bombshell reports published over the weekend, highlight a pattern of the Mueller team.
Many of Mueller’s prosecutors — it has been extensively reported — have made campaign contributions to Clinton and other Democratic political candidates. And a review by The Daily Caller shows that Mueller lawyers involved in the cases against four Trump associates are Democratic donors.
But Peter Strzok’s text messages — which he exchanged with Jill Page, an FBI lawyer who worked briefly on the Russia investigation — are perhaps the most significant evidence of anti-Trump bias uncovered so far on the Mueller team.
The discovery could also undermine the integrity of Mueller’s expansive investigation. That’s because Strzok is the FBI agent picked in July 2016 to supervise the then-fledgling investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian government.
Strzok’s central role in the probe is already raising questions about how and why the collusion investigation was opened in the first place.
Carter Page, a former Trump campaign adviser targeted in the early stages of the investigation, told TheDC on Sunday that he is “curious…whether [Strzok’s] fingerprints” are on a secret surveillance warrant taken out against him in Sept. 2016, just after he left the Trump team.
It is unclear what information was used in the application for the warrant, though it has been reported that the infamous and uncorroborated Steele dossier was cited.
Page is accused in the dossier of being the Trump campaign’s collusion contact with the Kremlin, an allegation he vehemently denies.
The Trump-Russia investigation was opened several weeks after Christopher Steele, the author of the dossier, first briefed FBI agents. The former British spy was working at the time for an opposition research firm that had been hired by the Clinton campaign and DNC to investigate Trump’s dealings in Russia.
Another unanswered mystery in the text message scandal is why Strzok’s politically-biased comments would be so problematic for Mueller given that many of the lawyers working under him have showed their political leanings in other ways.
At least nine of Mueller’s prosecutors have donated to Democratic political candidates. And all of the legal actions taken so far in Mueller’s investigation have involved pro-Democrat prosecutors.
The lawyers working the money laundering case against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his associate, Rick Gates, have donated to Obama’s presidential campaigns.
Andrew Weissmann, a veteran Justice Department prosecutor, gave $2,300 to Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign. He donated $2,000 to the DNC in 2006. Andrew Goldstein, who is working the case with Weissmann, contributed $3,300 to Obama’s campaigns in 2008 and 2012.
One of the attorneys handling the case against former Trump adviser George Papadopoulos has also contributed heavily to Democrats.
Jeannie Rhee, who served as a deputy assistant attorney general in the Obama administration, contributed $5,400 to Clinton’s campaign during the 2016 cycle. She also contributed $7,300 to Obama’s presidential campaigns. Papadopoulos pleaded guilty in October to lying to the FBI about contacts he had with Russians during the campaign.
A former partner at Mueller’s old law firm, Wilmer Hale, Rhee has also represented Clinton and her family charity the Clinton Foundation in a 2015 lawsuit seeking access to the former secretary of state’s personal emails.
Brandon Van Grack, one of the lawyers who secured a guilty plea against former national security adviser Michael Flynn, has also donated to Obama. A national security prosecutor with the DOJ, Van Grack contributed around $300 to Obama’s 2008 campaign.
46 Re: Flynn Charged 12/4/2017, 10:08 am
Deus X
EmeraldGhost wrote:
Hillary is toast. She may remain around the fringes of politics for a few more years...
"The horror! The horror!"
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/55872-the-horror-the-horror
And then, of course, there's Mr. Coppola's homage to Conrad:
The sooner Hillary, AKA The Insufferable Bitch, and her Wall Street stooge of a husband, shuts the fuck up and disappears down whatever "Adventures in Wonderland" rabbit hole she finds convenient, the better off everyone with a progressive inclination will be.
Every time I read or even hear her name, I'm almost overcome with the urge to go to the nearest Catholic church, drag a priest off an altar boy and having him hose me down with Holy Water. YIKES!
47 Re: Flynn Charged 12/4/2017, 12:38 pm
bigdog
I wonder if you really think people with a progressive inclination are better off today than they would have been if Hillary had become president in January? I was actually thinking of going through Utah in May so I could see the LAST views of the national monuments there that Trump is getting rid of this week.
The Hillary hate of progressives is as responsible for the election of Donald Trump as the far right racists are. Those that voted for Jill Stein or the Bernie voters who didn't show up in November would have kept Trump out of the White House.
I totally disagree with your post.
When it's an apple, it's an apple. We had two logical choices in November. Bernie Sanders nor Jill Stein were among those two.But Donald Trump was.
Reality exists in spite of the fact that I'd like all the words in John Lennon's "Imagine" to be true.
That's why he called it Imagine. The rest of us have to live in the real world where sometimes you have only two choices.
The Clintons aren't evil incarnate. Donald Trump is.
The Hillary hate of progressives is as responsible for the election of Donald Trump as the far right racists are. Those that voted for Jill Stein or the Bernie voters who didn't show up in November would have kept Trump out of the White House.
I totally disagree with your post.
When it's an apple, it's an apple. We had two logical choices in November. Bernie Sanders nor Jill Stein were among those two.But Donald Trump was.
Reality exists in spite of the fact that I'd like all the words in John Lennon's "Imagine" to be true.
That's why he called it Imagine. The rest of us have to live in the real world where sometimes you have only two choices.
The Clintons aren't evil incarnate. Donald Trump is.
48 Re: Flynn Charged 12/4/2017, 1:44 pm
Telstar
bigdog wrote:I wonder if you really think people with a progressive inclination are better off today than they would have been if Hillary had become president in January? I was actually thinking of going through Utah in May so I could see the LAST views of the national monuments there that Trump is getting rid of this week.
The Hillary hate of progressives is as responsible for the election of Donald Trump as the far right racists are. Those that voted for Jill Stein or the Bernie voters who didn't show up in November would have kept Trump out of the White House.
I totally disagree with your post.
When it's an apple, it's an apple. We had two logical choices in November. Bernie Sanders nor Jill Stein were among those two.But Donald Trump was.
Reality exists in spite of the fact that I'd like all the words in John Lennon's "Imagine" to be true.
That's why he called it Imagine. The rest of us have to live in the real world where sometimes you have only two choices.
The Clintons aren't evil incarnate. Donald Trump is.
49 Re: Flynn Charged 12/4/2017, 2:18 pm
Vikingwoman
EmeraldGhost wrote:bigdog wrote:If it gets so absolutely clear to the public that he's committed a crime I think even the House will be compelled to charge him.
....
Was it "absolutely clear to the public" Bill Clinton committed perjury when he stated under oath "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"? That's not "whataboutism" ... it's just to illustrate that the American public has a short memory when it comes to political scandal and politicians know that. So long as they can put this thing to bed well before the 2020 race begins in earnest, whatever the outcome, people will tend to forget and/or minimize it in their minds.
Whether the President has committed "high crimes and misdemeanors" and if the particular offense(s) warrant actual removal from office (or perhaps some other sanction short of removal from office instead), is a political matter to be decided by politicians in a legislative body, not a legal matter to be decided in a court of law with a judge and a jury.
Sure they could remove Trump and get Pence who would, of course, be preferable to many Republicans in the Congress. But in doing so, what would be the damage to the Republican "brand?" So long as they believe Trump will rubber-stamp their legislation ... a Republican controlled Congress will be reluctant to "convict" and actually remove him in impeachment proceedings.
Or the House could impeach Trump and the Senate sanction him with "censor" as they did Clinton.
I think instead the Republican dominated Congress will try & stick with Trump, and perhaps try and get Pence to run in 2020 instead of Trump. Trump could always find some excuse to bow out of the 2020 race ... health reasons for example. Trump's never had any qualms about walking away from some project that wasn't going so well for him, and leave others holding the bag.
That's just how I'm thinking about it this morning. My assessment/opinion could always change by afternoon.
Where do you get off it's a political matter? Obstruction is a criminal offense. Bill Clinton lost his law license for lying under oath and Trump will also be indicted and tried if he doesn't plead guilty. The congress will have no choice but to impeach him.
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