Trey Gowdy......the definition of deficiency

othershoe1030 wrote:The TV was on in the other room. I was listening to the questioning when some dweeb came on sounding very condescending and aggressive. I walked over to see who it was. Oh right it was Gowdy. On top of his irritating demeanor I saw he is also attempting to sport the latest trend in male grooming, facial hair. He needs to give that up too!

del.capslock wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:The TV was on in the other room. I was listening to the questioning when some dweeb came on sounding very condescending and aggressive. I walked over to see who it was. Oh right it was Gowdy. On top of his irritating demeanor I saw he is also attempting to sport the latest trend in male grooming, facial hair. He needs to give that up too!

If a man attacked a woman for her appearance or personal grooming choices the outrage from women would be inflammable.

Personally, I agree with your assessment of the Treyster, but men should be able to criticize women in the same way, no?

othershoe1030 wrote:

Sure. Poor choice of dress, bad hats, hair styles are fair game. I think the line gets crossed when criticism gets into areas that are more basic like a person being overweight or having some physical disability for example. The beard (or lack thereof) is more peripheral like a hair cut. Men and women both make missteps in these areas and should be fair game.

I think the sensitivity of women when it comes to things like this is that forever, largely women have been evaluated FIRST for their appearance and only secondarily for their talents and intellect. A man could be as ugly as a mud fence but if he was smart or talented his appearance was discounted. With women often they had to pass the Barbie or model test before they were taken seriously in other areas, see?

del.capslock wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Sure. Poor choice of dress, bad hats, hair styles are fair game. I think the line gets crossed when criticism gets into areas that are more basic like a person being overweight or having some physical disability for example. The beard (or lack thereof) is more peripheral like a hair cut. Men and women both make missteps in these areas and should be fair game.

I think the sensitivity of women when it comes to things like this is that forever, largely women have been evaluated FIRST for their appearance and only secondarily for their talents and intellect. A man could be as ugly as a mud fence but if he was smart or talented his appearance was discounted. With women often they had to pass the Barbie or model test before they were taken seriously in other areas, see?

Women dress to a different standard than men. I've made this argument before and never get a response, perhaps because women don't want to acknowledge the obvious.

Why do women wear jewelry, figure enhancing clothing, body-hugging fabrics, heels, make-up and different hairstyles even when they've reached the top of academic, business or political strata--in other words, serious women. Men in the same positions, all wear pretty much the same stuff: dark suit, light shirt buttoned to the top and a necktie. And this is all across Western society. It seems to me that women, to a certain extent, WANT to be judged on their appearance. Or at least, if not judged then noticed.

Women don't want to or can't respond to the fundamental social difference inherent in just such a simple thing as wardrobe.  Women, as a general rule, enjoy being attractive, no? But when they get criticized for being unattractive they find this offensive. I've heard women criticize other women in private for being fat or ugly but get angry if a man does it in any circumstances.

Just answer this one question: Why do women wear heels and makeup? Men don't. What's the difference here? What's going on here? Is there something fundamentally different between men and women? What is it?

It seems false to complain that you are being judged first on your appearance when you spend so much time and effort on it. That's the collective you, by the way.

othershoe1030 wrote:
I once heard a fashion designer (male) say something to the effect that dressing well was a sign of good manners. Generally I tend to agree. Why should someone go around like a hodgepodge just because they are well educated or smart or an expert in some field? Men and women both like to dress well. Surely you have seen, if not in real life, very successful men who wear very expensive clothes and watches, drive exotic cars, etc.?

People with self respect or out of good manners or whatever will take pride in their appearance. Women wear high heels because it makes the legs look sexy. It certainly isn't because they are comfortable!

Clothes, hair, makeup make a statement about who we are. It's like the cover on a book.

I don't know why this is such a mystery. Look at the news readers on Fox News with their short skirts, low cut dresses sitting on stools. Now why might that be?  "No Norma, I'm just watching the news!" And reading the magazine for the articles too no doubt.

Some studies have shown that some men misread cues from women and tend to see more of an "invitation to flirt" or whatever than was intended by the woman. This may lead to the complaints you're referencing when women "doll up" and then complain about getting hit on?

Personally I think people like to present an image of being somewhat "together" and perhaps successful or creative or whatever and part of how this is done is by choosing what we wear. I think men do more than you are willing to admit, muscle shirts, nice suits and ties, cufflinks, fancy shoes, or expensive  sunglasses. How many guys on the Gulf Coast have you seen in kaki shorts, deck shoes and Guy Harvey shirts advertising the fact that they are sportsmen, may likely have a bay boat etc.? Humans play the game, men and women.

del.capslock wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:
I once heard a fashion designer (male) say something to the effect that dressing well was a sign of good manners. Generally I tend to agree. Why should someone go around like a hodgepodge just because they are well educated or smart or an expert in some field? Men and women both like to dress well. Surely you have seen, if not in real life, very successful men who wear very expensive clothes and watches, drive exotic cars, etc.?

People with self respect or out of good manners or whatever will take pride in their appearance. Women wear high heels because it makes the legs look sexy. It certainly isn't because they are comfortable!

Clothes, hair, makeup make a statement about who we are. It's like the cover on a book.

I don't know why this is such a mystery. Look at the news readers on Fox News with their short skirts, low cut dresses sitting on stools. Now why might that be?  "No Norma, I'm just watching the news!" And reading the magazine for the articles too no doubt.

Some studies have shown that some men misread cues from women and tend to see more of an "invitation to flirt" or whatever than was intended by the woman. This may lead to the complaints you're referencing when women "doll up" and then complain about getting hit on?

Personally I think people like to present an image of being somewhat "together" and perhaps successful or creative or whatever and part of how this is done is by choosing what we wear. I think men do more than you are willing to admit, muscle shirts, nice suits and ties, cufflinks, fancy shoes, or expensive  sunglasses. How many guys on the Gulf Coast have you seen in kaki shorts, deck shoes and Guy Harvey shirts advertising the fact that they are sportsmen, may likely have a bay boat etc.? Humans play the game, men and women.

In a way, you're making my point for me. In professional or business circumstances--not the beach or at a picnic--women want to appear, to a greater or lesser degree, sexually attractive. They wear heels, short skirts or figure-enhancing dresses, low-cut tops etc. "Women wear high heels because it makes the legs look sexy."

Men want to look wealthy, like they have the money for expensive suits, watches, etc.--not specifically because they are physically attractive.

Now, my point is that women, it seems, want to be considered, or at least noticed, for their appearance--their "attractiveness" if you will--yet they get angry when they're described as unattractive (i.e. fat or ugly) by a man. Wanting to be considered on the basis of your appearance yet getting pissed when you are dissed on that same basis seems, well, screwy. Imagine if a man ever described a woman as "ugly as a mud fence" (your words). There's a goose and gander thing going on here and that's fine with me. I just want to hear one woman on the entire planet acknowledge it.

P.S. I never figured you for a Fox News fan--you seem normal. Sometimes.

del.capslock wrote:"I don't think you're looking at this in quite the right way."

Of course you don't, I'm a man. We are congenitally incapable of looking at things the right way.

But, despite that defect, I do think I'm beginning to get it: Women dress to accentuate their secondary sexual characteristics, appear sexually attractive and lure men to their doom because...   MEN!

It's all the result of male oppression.

By Jove, I think I've got it!