Pensacola Discussion Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

This is a forum based out of Pensacola Florida.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Boards

+6
2seaoat
ZVUGKTUBM
RealLindaL
boards of FL
dumpcare
Joanimaroni
10 posters

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 2]

1Boards Empty Boards 4/28/2016, 12:24 pm

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Escambia County officials will discuss plans to alleviate traffic congestion on Pensacola Beach with beach residents, business owners and other concerned citizens from 5:30 p.m. to 7 p.m. tonight at the Pensacola Beach Community Church, 920 Panferio Drive.
County planners hope to gather public input on ideas to improve traffic flow and pedestrian safety on the beach.
The meeting is the first in a series of meeting and workshops to address parking, traffic jams and other congestion issues.

2Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 12:59 pm

dumpcare



Nothing going to happen until parking garages are built out there.

3Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 1:33 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

This reminds me of a traffic debate that was had on this forum (I think it was last year) about the underlying source of the traffic.  Some were saying the incoming beach traffic was backed up due to the light at Via De Luna and Fort Pickens Road.  I said that that was ridiculous and that the traffic was clearly due to the toll booths.

This past Saturday, I took some visual evidence to support my theory.

Bumper to bumper before the toll booth...

Boards SpM9XWG


...and wide open after the tollbooth.

Boards W29ngrO


_________________
I approve this message.

4Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 1:34 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

And speaking of beach traffic, the PNJ posted my Letter to the Editor recently where I call for extra signs to be added to the end of the northbound side of the three mile bridge.  During spring break and summer, accidents occur there at a pace of roughly once per week.  This is a huge pain in the ass for people who live in Pensacola but work in Gulf Breeze.  Each week, I'm stuck in bumper to bumper traffic because an out-of-towner causes a pile up at the end of the bridge because they don't realize that traffic comes to an abrupt stop.

Reduced speed limits, radar speed signs, and flashing "Warning: Traffic stops abruptly" signs could eliminate that mess entirely. But this is Pensacola....


_________________
I approve this message.

5Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 5:11 pm

RealLindaL



ppaca wrote:Nothing going to happen until parking garages are built out there.

Parking garages are the LAST thing we need.  They would only create concentrated areas of continual ingress and egress onto already jammed roads, exacerbating the problem.

What we need, and it isn't going to happen, is to stop spending millions of tourism dollars to bring more and more people to a place that has NO BUSINESS inviting more visitors when it can't begin to handle the ones it has.  And that's purely and simply because of the size and configuration of this part of the island, which cannot be changed except perhaps by a major act of Nature.  

One thing that people need to understand is that traffic is not only a problem for those trying to come onto the beach, but also for those trying to depart -- and the latter group is not looking for parking places, they only want to travel down the road and leave!   Just this past Saturday evening -- NOT a Spring Break day, NOT a holiday, NOT a vacation day, just a sunny beach day -- it took us well over a half hour to travel the short 1-1/2 miles straight down Via de Luna from our home just east of the churches to the traffic light, creeping and stopping all the way.  All we wanted to do was go into Pensacola for dinner, realizing the beach eateries would likely all be jammed.

I wrote a PNJ Viewpoint about this last year, and some article commenters (and a few of you) accused me, as a beach resident, of trying to keep other people out.  BALONEY!! We love seeing people come out and enjoy the beach, and noting the multitude of out-of-state plates on the road just makes us proud and grateful to live here.  But we residents, and all those same many visitors, were all stuck in the same traffic jam Saturday night.   I felt sorry for all the fidgeting kids  (and their parents) in the adjacent cars, and wondered how many of these people had appointments and/or reservations that they were surely going to miss.   Heaven help the resident or visitor who makes an outbound plane reservation for a Saturday evening.  Better leave for the airport many hours ahead of flight time!

Last year, right before I wrote that Viewpoint, the manager of the top-rated Holiday Inn Express on Ft. Pickens Rd. lamented that many of her guests posting on Trip Advisor and other review sites said they loved the beach but hated the traffic, and might never come back because of it. Who can blame them?  This could fall under the law of diminishing returns, if you'll pardon the pun.  

Sorry, shouldn't have gotten started.  It's a very, very sore issue with us. We have nothing against growth and development but there has been a culture of "more and bigger regardless" out here for way too long, with woefully little rational thought as to how in the world this little island was going to accommodate everyone.  Well, guess what, people?  IT CAN'T.

Look, park and ride has been attempted in the past, and it didn't work.   The ferries will be a tourist attraction and a temporary novelty, but due to cost and inconvenience will not alleviate any significant amount of vehicle traffic.  That's somebody's pipe dream.  Meanwhile, countless beach traffic studies languish on shelves, gathering dust, because no one has ever been able to come up with a truly viable and affordable solution.

I continue to believe that the only answer is to recognize our limitations, make some reasonable traffic accommodations to the best of our ability, and quit trying to be Miami Beach.  Just STOP the tourism ads.   There will still be more than enough people coming here due to word of mouth -- and they’ll be repeat visitors year after year, IF they don't have to spend hours of their precious vacation time stuck in stinking traffic.           __LL

6Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 6:18 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

....which cannot be changed except perhaps by a major act of Nature....

I guess Hurricane Ivan was not a lesson enough for many.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

7Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 7:08 pm

2seaoat



Navarre got rid of the toll and the traffic overnight was much better, but the major opportunity to fix traffic was missed with the alignment of three mile. A tragic good old boy tomfoolery.

8Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 8:19 pm

knothead

knothead

RealLindaL wrote:
ppaca wrote:Nothing going to happen until parking garages are built out there.

Parking garages are the LAST thing we need.  They would only create concentrated areas of continual ingress and egress onto already jammed roads, exacerbating the problem.

What we need, and it isn't going to happen, is to stop spending millions of tourism dollars to bring more and more people to a place that has NO BUSINESS inviting more visitors when it can't begin to handle the ones it has.  And that's purely and simply because of the size and configuration of this part of the island, which cannot be changed except perhaps by a major act of Nature.  

One thing that people need to understand is that traffic is not only a problem for those trying to come onto the beach, but also for those trying to depart -- and the latter group is not looking for parking places, they only want to travel down the road and leave!   Just this past Saturday evening -- NOT a Spring Break day, NOT a holiday, NOT a vacation day, just a sunny beach day -- it took us well over a half hour to travel the short 1-1/2 miles straight down Via de Luna from our home just east of the churches to the traffic light, creeping and stopping all the way.  All we wanted to do was go into Pensacola for dinner, realizing the beach eateries would likely all be jammed.

I wrote a PNJ Viewpoint about this last year, and some article commenters (and a few of you) accused me, as a beach resident, of trying to keep other people out.  BALONEY!! We love seeing people come out and enjoy the beach, and noting the multitude of out-of-state plates on the road just makes us proud and grateful to live here.  But we residents, and all those same many visitors, were all stuck in the same traffic jam Saturday night.   I felt sorry for all the fidgeting kids  (and their parents) in the adjacent cars, and wondered how many of these people had appointments and/or reservations that they were surely going to miss.   Heaven help the resident or visitor who makes an outbound plane reservation for a Saturday evening.  Better leave for the airport many hours ahead of flight time!

Last year, right before I wrote that Viewpoint, the manager of the top-rated Holiday Inn Express on Ft. Pickens Rd. lamented that many of her guests posting on Trip Advisor and other review sites said they loved the beach but hated the traffic, and might never come back because of it. Who can blame them?  This could fall under the law of diminishing returns, if you'll pardon the pun.  

Sorry, shouldn't have gotten started.  It's a very, very sore issue with us. We have nothing against growth and development but there has been a culture of "more and bigger regardless" out here for way too long, with woefully little rational thought as to how in the world this little island was going to accommodate everyone.  Well, guess what, people?  IT CAN'T.

Look, park and ride has been attempted in the past, and it didn't work.   The ferries will be a tourist attraction and a temporary novelty, but due to cost and inconvenience will not alleviate any significant amount of vehicle traffic.  That's somebody's pipe dream.  Meanwhile, countless beach traffic studies languish on shelves, gathering dust, because no one has ever been able to come up with a truly viable and affordable solution.

I continue to believe that the only answer is to recognize our limitations, make some reasonable traffic accommodations to the best of our ability, and quit trying to be Miami Beach.  Just STOP the tourism ads.   There will still be more than enough people coming here due to word of mouth -- and they’ll be repeat visitors year after year, IF they don't have to spend hours of their precious vacation time stuck in stinking traffic.           __LL


You said it so well it is hard to add but this is a complex subject once you drill down to the sources of the man problems. I disagree with Boards that the fault lies solely with the toll booth because that simply isn't a factual statement. It is also poor parking ingress and egress, pedestrian lanes stopping, but more than anything too many people all come during the summer months and weekends and it is traffic saturation. Linda nailed it when she said we need to stop spending precious dollars advertising the island . . .

9Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 9:31 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The reason the pileup before the toll both is worse than one at the traffic light, is because now after the toll booth piles em up, it trickles them out the other end. So there's not as much chance to pile up at the light before it cycles again.
BUT if you remove the toll booths, that's when the traffic will keep on moving till it piles up at the traffic light.

But I like the idea of that sign on the end of the northbound lanes of the Bay Bridge to warn people about abrupt stops. I've almost bumped some cars in front of me myself.

10Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 9:35 pm

RealLindaL



knothead wrote:Linda nailed it when she said we need to stop spending precious dollars advertising the island . . .

Thanks, knot.   Went to the kickoff meeting tonight and expressed the same thoughts.  Ran into at least two people, (SRIA Board member Thomas Campanella, and another resident from Sugar Bowl whose name I've already forgotten - tsk tsk) -- who feel exactly the same way.  

Gave a copy of my above long post to the PNJ beach beat reporter, and also left a copy in the "Comments" box at the meeting.

I doubt it will do any good at all, but somebody had to say it.

I wonder how much these consultants cost that the county hired (probably to prove they're doing something with our ad valorem dollars).  The consultants had quite a few people there and put on a pretty impressive first meeting.  Lots of interested parties attended, too.  
Study's not going to be completed until May of 2017 so (1) can only imagine it's another hefty price tag and (2) doubt anything significant will be accomplished to relieve this summer's congestion.  

Even have my doubts that the Sunpass capability and dedicated Sunpass lane on the Sikes toll bridge starting 5/31 will do much good.  Hope I'm wrong.

11Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 9:39 pm

RealLindaL



Bob wrote:But I like the idea of that sign on the end of the northbound lanes of the Bay Bridge to warn people about abrupt stops.  I've almost bumped some cars in front of me myself.

I like the idea, too, but I wonder what the process is for getting anything like that done.  And I imagine they have to weigh the effect of new signage at that location as to whether or not it would be a distraction, something not needed there for sure.  
We need a forum member from the FDOT.  Smile

12Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 10:23 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

2seaoat wrote:Navarre got rid of the toll and the traffic overnight was much better, but the major opportunity to fix traffic was missed with the alignment of three mile.  A tragic good old boy tomfoolery.


This one pisses me off nearly as much as the tollbooths.


_________________
I approve this message.

13Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/28/2016, 11:39 pm

Hallmarkgard



Nothing any funnier than listening to people whine about traffic on the beach...  LOL  Traffic?  Who knew?  Enjoy the mess you made...

14Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 1:28 am

RealLindaL



Hallmarkgard wrote:Nothing any funnier than listening to people whine about traffic on the beach...  LOL  Traffic?  Who knew?  Enjoy the mess you made...

Oh stuff it, Hallmark. I didn't make any mess.  I just came here to live.  It's not the island residents who are jamming the roads, it's the tens of thousands of visitors lured here by the dual Chambers and the tourism bureaus, even though we simply cannot properly accommodate them.

And look,  "whine" is an extremely offensive, insulting word, as you well know.   Just no call for that crapola here.  

When I first saw your name as posting on the board tonight I though, wow, great to see Hallmark here again!  Will have to tell him so!  Well, I'm telling you now I thought it was great, but only until I read this post and remembered similar comments from you in the past.  I thought we had gotten past this, but your broad-brush disdain for beach people is still patently obvious -- and it's grossly unfair, not to mention unbecoming to you.

But what I was really going to ask you when I saw your name was, how in the heck is your dear wife doing?  How about filling us in on that instead of throwing insults around?  Just a suggestion.

15Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 2:08 am

boards of FL

boards of FL


_________________
I approve this message.

16Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 6:59 am

Guest


Guest

RealLindaL wrote:
Hallmarkgard wrote:Nothing any funnier than listening to people whine about traffic on the beach...  LOL  Traffic?  Who knew?  Enjoy the mess you made...

Oh stuff it, Hallmark. I didn't make any mess.  I just came here to live.  It's not the island residents who are jamming the roads, it's the tens of thousands of visitors lured here by the dual Chambers and the tourism bureaus, even though we simply cannot properly accommodate them.

And look,  "whine" is an extremely offensive, insulting word, as you well know.   Just no call for that crapola here.  

When I first saw your name as posting on the board tonight I though, wow, great to see Hallmark here again!  Will have to tell him so!  Well, I'm telling you now I thought it was great, but only until I read this post and remembered similar comments from you in the past.  I thought we had gotten past this, but your broad-brush disdain for beach people is still patently obvious -- and it's grossly unfair, not to mention unbecoming to you.

But what I was really going to ask you when I saw your name was, how in the heck is your dear wife doing?  How about filling us in on that instead of throwing insults around?  Just a suggestion.

The disdain, on my part, is not for the "beach people" but for the officials who allowed the beach to be overrun with wall to wall development. Thank God for the National Seashore, Earle Bowden, and those who still hold out for the sanctuary the island should be. It's been said over and over - it is a barrier island. It is not a place that should be inhabitable. And those who set out to make money from the barrier island are the ones at fault. Open the gate - how do you close it??

17Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 7:23 am

2seaoat



I was caught up to my ears with greed and avarice when I invested on Navarre Beach. It was an incredible deal as I could rent the condo, not pay taxes, low condo assessments, use it when it was not rented, and actually cash flow it while gaining 300% return on my investment in just five years. It was like the gold rush as developers built with little or no consideration of threshold traffic and infrastructure constraints, and then Ivan hit.....I had been there after Opal, and I was skeptical of investing but after about five years of no hurricanes after Opal, I invested, but after Ivan, I immediately put the condo which sustained no damage in Ivan up for sale, and got an incredible price. The guy who bought our place lost it, and the price fell 230k immediately in units and our friend who just sold his place sold it for 230k less than we sold it six months ago. The problem was that Dennis hit just one year later, Brown assessed taxes, and the general economy went into a monster recession. I had been going to panhandle beaches since I was three and once a child plays in that white sand.....there is no way you can get it out of your system, and from my grandparents in the thirties visiting, to my mother, my children, and now my grandchildren.....it is almost a hundred years of family enjoying the beach, and thank God for Earl because without the National Seashore, all the beauty would have been loss with the greed which I experienced and is the worse of human vices.

18Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 10:06 am

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

SheWrites wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:
Hallmarkgard wrote:Nothing any funnier than listening to people whine about traffic on the beach...  LOL  Traffic?  Who knew?  Enjoy the mess you made...

Oh stuff it, Hallmark. I didn't make any mess.  I just came here to live.  It's not the island residents who are jamming the roads, it's the tens of thousands of visitors lured here by the dual Chambers and the tourism bureaus, even though we simply cannot properly accommodate them.

And look,  "whine" is an extremely offensive, insulting word, as you well know.   Just no call for that crapola here.  

When I first saw your name as posting on the board tonight I though, wow, great to see Hallmark here again!  Will have to tell him so!  Well, I'm telling you now I thought it was great, but only until I read this post and remembered similar comments from you in the past.  I thought we had gotten past this, but your broad-brush disdain for beach people is still patently obvious -- and it's grossly unfair, not to mention unbecoming to you.

But what I was really going to ask you when I saw your name was, how in the heck is your dear wife doing?  How about filling us in on that instead of throwing insults around?  Just a suggestion.

The disdain, on my part, is not for the "beach people" but for the officials who allowed the beach to be overrun with wall to wall development.  Thank God for the National Seashore, Earle Bowden, and those who still hold out for the sanctuary the island should be.   It's been said over and over - it is a barrier island.  It is not a place that should be inhabitable.  And those who set out to make money from the barrier island are the ones at fault.  Open the gate - how do you close it??



I agree.

19Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 12:22 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

SheWrites wrote: Thank God for... Earle Bowden

You can list every good deed that any political or business or media figure ever did in the Florida panhandle,  and nothing even comes close to what he accomplished by protecting that strip of seashore. There should be mention of it on his tombstone.

“I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied.”
--  John Masefield

20Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 4:07 pm

dumpcare



Bob wrote:The reason the pileup before the toll both is worse than one at the traffic light,  is because now after the toll booth piles em up, it trickles them out the other end.  So there's not as much chance to pile up at the light before it cycles again.
BUT if you remove the toll booths,  that's when the traffic will keep on moving till it piles up at the traffic light.

But I like the idea of that sign on the end of the northbound lanes of the Bay Bridge to warn people about abrupt stops.  I've almost bumped some cars in front of me myself.


That sign on the northbound warning people may help with tourists but not in the morning's. I come over here almost every day during the week with the same people driving besides, behind and in front of me and still after all these years and trips only a handful will slow down, most slam on their breaks at the end of the bridge. It is not tourist's during the week in the morning, it is locals.

So everyone is in agreement no parking garages on the beach, so I have two grand kids that work at a restaurant out there Wednesday thru Sunday and they have to go out there 4 hours before their shifts to find parking as most of the employee's of the businesses have to. What do you propose for the employee's? Now I know after all these years why most of the employee's have an attitude out there, they can't find a parking space. lol

If all the businesses got together and funded two busses and paid Andrews clinic to park there on Sat and Sunday then their employee's could be shuttled back and forth. This happens in city's where businesses cannot find employee's in one town and shuttle from another close by town.

21Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 4:44 pm

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Many are texting when the bridge flow is really slow.

22Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 6:38 pm

dumpcare



Texting? Sure they are, but once they get over the bridge and the hour or two it takes to find a parking space is adding to more vehicle's being jammed up, because of their driving around.

23Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 6:57 pm

RealLindaL



Seaoat speaks for himself; investment "greed" played absolutely no role in our own decision to buy here; it was simply the fulfillment of a lifetime dream of mine, after many childhood vacations in Virginia Beach, to live very close to the sea.  

As for the development on this island, it's actually far, far less objectionable than in most seaside resort areas, not only because of the existence of the GINS areas Bowden admirably protected, but because of the extensive single family zoning on Pensacola Beach's east side -- very, very rare these days -- and also because we boast as much or more beach public access than one can find just about anywhere on salt water beaches in this nation.

But as to those who decry the commercial development in the core area, I'll just remind you of the simple reality, proven out by several UWF Haas Center studies over the years, that tourism adds literally hundreds of millions of dollars of economic impact to the greater Pensacola area each and every year.  UWF estimated at least a decade ago that every property tax bill in Escambia County would rise by at least $1,000 annually were it not for that impact, and that's only scratching the surface of the economic benefits.

Now if anyone wants to try to say that people would come here to visit in anywhere such numbers if we didn't have these beaches and a place for visitors to stay and/or eat and/or shop and/or park out here or otherwise spend their dollars, I say baloney.   Sorry, but Pensacola itself, lovely as it is, would be a much, much smaller dot on the map were it not for the huge asset of our beach as a family vacation destination, along with all its seaside amenities.   That's just reality.

I would also very respectfully challenge anyone who decries development out here to say that they and/or their visiting friends or relatives have never enjoyed an overnight on the island or even an island cocktail or dinner or beach Blue Angels show or Mardi Gras parade or wedding reception out here, ever, and in any event would invite them to pledge never to do so in the future, so as not to participate in any way in the very development they so decry.  We certainly wouldn't want anyone feeling at all like a hypocrite, now would we?

24Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 7:20 pm

Hallmarkgard



Believe it or not people enjoyed the beach with out the cesspool of over development. The talk if how much the beach befits the mainland is laughable. Ask anyone in Century or parts of the West side. The blessed Beach money never makes it to our F rated schools and high crime rates. As for a promise not to go to Pensacola beach? That is a no brainier. My wife and I haven’t been to PB in over 10 years and mostly likely will not in the next ten years. Why should we? Where is the Pledge? We are ready to sign....

25Boards Empty Re: Boards 4/29/2016, 7:57 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Hallmarkgard wrote:My wife and I haven’t been to PB in over 10 years and mostly likely will not in the next ten years..

I never go out there either. When the wife and I feel like 'beach," we go out to Johnson's beach for a while.

Personally, I won't invest in a property that sits anywhere outside FEMA Flood Zone X.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 2]

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum