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Playoffs

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boards of FL
Joanimaroni
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276Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/14/2016, 10:08 am

Guest


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He also ignores the flow of offense and how important ball movement is in making the team better.

No way either plays that well with green on the floor... but they were both certainly hot. They played well.

277Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/14/2016, 11:31 am

boards of FL

boards of FL

It's not that I don't understand that basketball is a team sport, or that victory most often goes to the combination of better team and coach.  It's that you guys simply keep repeating that line in spite of everything that I have been saying.  The real lack of understanding lies with those who can't unwind team success from player value.   That is what you guys don't seem to understand.  

The Warriors have the better team, better bench, and better coach.  The Cavs have the best player.  And it isn't even close.


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278Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/14/2016, 11:48 am

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

boards of FL wrote:It's not that I don't understand that basketball is a team sport, or that victory most often goes to the combination of better team and coach.  It's that you guys simply keep repeating that line in spite of everything that I have been saying.  The real lack of understanding lies with those who can't unwind team success from player value.   That is what you guys don't seem to understand.  

The Warriors have the better team, better bench, and better coach.  The Cavs have the best player.  And it isn't even close.
A one man show doesn't win championships. James and Irving had an outstanding game.

279Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/14/2016, 12:16 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

My argument has been that LeBron is the best all time and is still the MVP.  This Finals and the last Finals is confirming as much.  

Now this is where you contradict yourself and say "But he didn't win the ring".   No, he didn't because the best team wins the ring.  Not the best player but best team.

This run we have seen from LeBron is nothing short of historic. He is clearly in a league of his own.

The Cavs starters have outscored the Warriors starters by 40.  The Warriors bench has outscored the Cavs bench by 50.  Give the Cavs a bench that can simply be outscored by only 10 and this series is over in four - with our without Green.

2seaoat pulled the idea that the Cavs have a top ten bench on the previous page. I'd ask him where he got that number, but it's 2seaoat. We all know where he gets his information. The Cavs bench was ranked 20th in 2015-2016. The Warriors were 3rd. The Warriors bench is winning this title. The Warriors bench won the last title. The Warriors would very likely win both titles with or without Curry. Curry doesn't even move the line.


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280Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/14/2016, 1:51 pm

2seaoat



James was not the MVP. The GS defense was one of the best in the NBA, but when two of the starters who were bigs and could defend the basket were not playing, it gave opportunities for the cavs not to worry about interior blocks as the cavs all star guard was just coming into the lane and banking the ball in and James had a good shooting game from the outside......a rare accomplishment in his current decline. As Lue said, Green probably is the best defender in the NBA. I think that is debatable, but Green, George, Butler, and Leonard are essential for their defensive play of a winning defensive team.

Now the geometry of defense and offense require dynamic schemes. There are no excuses when players go down in a good scheme. I called two losses for the Warriors in the finals. I did not expect anything less because James is a good player, and has a good bench and two all stars on the team. However, to think that anybody will beat Curry is clearly wishful thinking. He changes the game and my biggest criticism is that he is so good that he almost has an arrogance which allows some incredibly sloppy passes, but there is NO other player better than him in the NBA.

The best part of me predicting two wins was stating then I could listen to the hopes of the James is the best player chorus climb out from under the rock and talk about stats, as if Dr. J and the Mailman had stats.....they just could not present the geometry of team excellence, and in James case win. They will not win, and as James enters his 14th season, that reality has never been more clear.........he hurts team play.........but I do not have to wait much longer, the reality for those who crowned Curry will be sealed soon.......but to deny that James had a great game would be silly......he ALWAYS has a great game before he fails in the championship.....nothing new here.

281Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/14/2016, 3:24 pm

Guest


Guest

I think dr J and lebron do have some similarities. Dr J didn't win a championship until a bigger star (moses malone) came to town. Dr J was older ofcourse... but he finally let the ball revolve around the offense and became a team player.

Lebron isn't the goat... not even in my all time starting lineup. Those players understand how championships are won... and it sure as hell isn't taking fall away threes when teammates are open or bullying the drive using the free arm to clear the way. That's a foul... it requires no great skill... it's not even fun to watch.

282Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/14/2016, 5:41 pm

2seaoat



I think dr J and lebron do have some similarities. Dr J didn't win a championship until a bigger star (moses malone) came to town. Dr J was older ofcourse... but he finally let the ball revolve around the offense and became a team player.

Lebron isn't the goat... not even in my all time starting lineup. Those players understand how championships are won... and it sure as hell isn't taking fall away threes when teammates are open or bullying the drive using the free arm to clear the way. That's a foul... it requires no great skill... it's not even fun to watch.


Bingo......nobody has been fooled on Sports radio for five years, but the NBA pampers him because he has loyal fans who cannot recognize what you clearly set forth.   He is not on my top ten team, and in ten years from now at least two and maybe three of current players will be higher on that list.  He simply cannot win......I would be happy to see him win this year, because my respect for him as a man, a role model, and competitor has always been high, but I would NEVER want to have somebody like him on my team.....been there and done that......stat chaser exist at every level of basketball, and the geometry of the same is well understood......at least by those who have played or coached.

283Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/15/2016, 9:48 am

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:I think dr J and lebron do have some similarities. Dr J didn't win a championship until a bigger star (moses malone) came to town. Dr J was older ofcourse... but he finally let the ball revolve around the offense and became a team player.

Lebron isn't the goat... not even in my all time starting lineup. Those players understand how championships are won... and it sure as hell isn't taking fall away threes when teammates are open or bullying the drive using the free arm to clear the way. That's a foul... it requires no great skill... it's not even fun to watch.


Bingo......nobody has been fooled on Sports radio for five years, but the NBA pampers him because he has loyal fans who cannot recognize what you clearly set forth.   He is not on my top ten team, and in ten years from now at least two and maybe three of current players will be higher on that list.  He simply cannot win......I would be happy to see him win this year, because my respect for him as a man, a role model, and competitor has always been high, but I would NEVER want to have somebody like him on my team.....been there and done that......stat chaser exist at every level of basketball, and the geometry of the same is well understood......at least by those who have played or coached.

I think I'd have james on my all time bench... and in the right circumstances getting starters minutes. I think he's as good or better than james worthy as a finisher and pairing him with magic off the ball would be a potent weapon.

284Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/16/2016, 11:59 am

2seaoat



My argument has been that LeBron is the best all time and is still the MVP.

Well in the next two games he can restart his journey to be considered the same, but most NBA players are retiring by their 14th season, so even if he won this year, and next year he would only be at four rings.......not going to be enough. So, his destiny is in his hands. He has a path to goat as does Curry, and one will win and one will lose........and you have already agreed that it will not be James. So really, do you still insist to artificially separate winning from greatness?

The big man is out, the best defender in the NBA is back, it will be a good game.

285Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/16/2016, 1:03 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

Wait, are you saying that Curry is the best defender in the NBA?


Regarding the rest of your comment...

2seaoat wrote:He has a path to goat as does Curry, and one will win and one will lose........and you have already agreed that it will not be James.

Joanimaroni wrote:You seem to keep forgetting the concept of basketball.....it is a team sport. GS won last year because they won more games than the Cavs.


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286Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/16/2016, 1:17 pm

2seaoat



Wait, are you saying that Curry is the best defender in the NBA?


Curry is a very good defensive player, but it is clear that Green, Butler, George, or my choice Leonard is the best current defenders in the NBA. I made reference to LU calling Green the best NBA defender, I do not agree with that conclusion, but I think he is second only to Leonard.

Again, if James is every going to get back on the path to GOAT, he must win this series. No excuses. He has three all stars, and a very good bench. He has a weak coach, but that has been my argument from the git go......James coaching the teams which he drives into the ditch will require him playing for a strong coach. He has run out of career and rings to every be considered the GOAT, and to think he is the MVP on about the sixth best team in the league.....fan fantasy. No Curry will show why is was MVP and why he has a viable path to GOAT, but like James two rings does not mean chit in that discussion.......it will be years before we can have that discussion, but no more excuses.....he holds his destiny in his hands and has been given a gift with the big man gone where he can push down the lane and not fear a shot blocker.....if ever there was a path for another ring.....it is now.

287Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/16/2016, 1:19 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

2seaoat wrote:Again, if James is every going to get back on the path to GOAT, he must win this series.  No excuses.   He has three all stars, and a very good bench.


Playoffs - Page 12 Bonbon-dbfbe36b2ab7e3e46f8bdbc19fcc3ada


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288Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/16/2016, 1:34 pm

2seaoat



I guess you think that the best player is simply stats. So if James was going to switch places with Curry in the finals, do you really think that a James led warriors team would win.......he would destroy the team chemistry of that team in a NY second, and suddenly Love would be contributing and there would be another set of splash brothers, and the Cavs would be a better team. Now that is pure speculation, but I cannot say it better than what Bosh said of playing with James "it is hard".

Again, with the big man gone and an integral starter, the Cavs have never had a better opportunity to steal the series from a better team. It could happen, but James has a history of not winning championships and actually hurting his team........as they say.....history will repeat itself.

But I have gotten exactly what I wanted when I said the Cavs would win 2.....a conversation. Otherwise it would have simply been photos of candy as the white flag of acknowledgement of the truth is on display.

289Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/16/2016, 11:43 pm

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Evil or Very Mad

290Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/17/2016, 5:22 am

2seaoat



I watched the game playing poker this evening.  It is 4:15 am and I will say the better team tonight won.  Cleveland played well, and James played great.   Patrick Ewing and Shaq got away with physically pushing people out of the way for years so tonight when James committed an offensive foul against Curry and Curry got the blocking foul, the poker room went nuts.....the conspiracy theory folks got very vocal.  However, not that much later, the refs called a foul on love which probably was the worse of many bad calls last evening.  

Steve Kerr is not a complainer, and he was very specific that three of Curry's six fouls were not fouls......I agree, but I think the Cavs outplayed the Warriors, and the warriors without their center is soft in the middle on defense.   That being said all the conspiracy theory folks who were howling during the game that the fix was on forget that the best TEAM usually wins in a seven game series.  However, I think Green should have been suspended in the OK series, and to delay the same brings the integrity of the league in question, and now with Curry throwing a mouth piece into the crowd......sorry that should be a game suspension.   I think the refs have been incredibly bad the last three games, but I have been unable to see a definite slant, other than calling tic tac fouls on Curry, and not calling James on the offensive fouls, but to allow Curry to play, means that this whole thing really is about the ratings, and Curry's wife's tweet may be closer to the truth than folks think, but not for the same reason.   I love the MVP and I think the Warriors will easily win the seventh game, but in my opinion Curry should not be playing and should be suspended.  If he is not, like Green not being suspended right away, then the league has raised real questions as to whether the entire NBA is susceptible to rigging games for gambling by not being consistent in both ref calls and suspension.......I will be sad if Curry does not get to play, and the series will be changed, but the integrity of the game is more important.  It is unacceptable to throw a mouthpiece into a crowd of fans,, and a fine is not a proper remedy.   Yea, he has been targeted with ticcy taccy fouls, and he has not gone to the free throw line as he is hammered without calls, but that is the NBA, and throwing your mouth piece and not getting suspended means the NBA is a joke.

291Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/17/2016, 10:19 am

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

2seaoat wrote:I watched the game playing poker this evening.  It is 4:15 am and I will say the better team tonight won.  Cleveland played well, and James played great.   Patrick Ewing and Shaq got away with physically pushing people out of the way for years so tonight when James committed an offensive foul against Curry and Curry got the blocking foul, the poker room went nuts.....the conspiracy theory folks got very vocal.  However, not that much later, the refs called a foul on love which probably was the worse of many bad calls last evening.  

Steve Kerr is not a complainer, and he was very specific that three of Curry's six fouls were not fouls......I agree, but I think the Cavs outplayed the Warriors, and the warriors without their center is soft in the middle on defense.   That being said all the conspiracy theory folks who were howling during the game that the fix was on forget that the best TEAM usually wins in a seven game series.  However, I think Green should have been suspended in the OK series, and to delay the same brings the integrity of the league in question, and now with Curry throwing a mouth piece into the crowd......sorry that should be a game suspension.   I think the refs have been incredibly bad the last three games, but I have been unable to see a definite slant, other than calling tic tac fouls on Curry, and not calling James on the offensive fouls, but to allow Curry to play, means that this whole thing really is about the ratings, and Curry's wife's tweet may be closer to the truth than folks think, but not for the same reason.   I love the MVP and I think the Warriors will easily win the seventh game, but in my opinion Curry should not be playing and should be suspended.  If he is not, like Green not being suspended right away, then the league has raised real questions as to whether the entire NBA is susceptible to rigging games for gambling by not being consistent in both ref calls and suspension.......I will be sad if Curry does not get to play, and the series will be changed, but the integrity of the game is more important.  It is unacceptable to throw a mouthpiece into a crowd of fans,, and a fine is not a proper remedy.   Yea, he has been targeted with ticcy taccy fouls, and he has not gone to the free throw line as he is hammered without calls, but that is the NBA, and throwing your mouth piece and not getting suspended means the NBA is a joke.


Well stated.

292Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/17/2016, 11:22 am

Guest


Guest

Curry was out of sync all night. Not in flow on either end of the floor. One of the worst thirty point games I've ever seen. It's one thing to be off a little and aware that you must find a way to help... he didn't... he wrecked the rhythm.

He won't be suspended... but gs would be better off without last nights curry. Great game from lebron.

293Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/17/2016, 11:44 am

2seaoat



If any other player had thrown their mouthpiece and behaved as Curry behaved, without exception they would be suspended. That was in my opinion worse than anything Green did because it used to be an automatic suspension initiating any contact with fans in the stands and the best example was the Ron Attest incident where he was suspended for a large chunk of games. I get the benefit of the NBA getting a seventh game, but the refs were horrible and in my opinion equally horrible. It is hard when you are competitive to get three fouls miscalled in this level of a game. I think that if nothing else the NBA must have something short of automatic video review. I listened to late night sports radio on my hour plus ride home last night, and people are writing off the NBA, but I heard a very positive sportscaster recommendation. He suggests that each ref on the floor can ask for a video review of a call at anytime. Not a coach, but one of the ref team where from their angle they did not see the call as the ref who called the foul. The problem is that this would have to be limited or it would change the pace of the game. I think Kerr said it best, there were bad calls on the basketball court , but those calls did not change the outcome of the game.....the Cavs outplayed the Warriors. Curry needs to be suspended, and anything short of that is a joke. NBA players are very large people and when they do not control their emotions they can cause very serious injury to others and themselves if the rules are not enforced consistently. I was impressed with Curry's post game interview where he admitted that his emotions got the best of him, but if the MVP is suspended for a game, some young people who can barely control their emotions will know that out of control conduct on the basketball court is unacceptable.

294Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/17/2016, 6:45 pm

2seaoat



http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/steph-curry-and-steve-kerr-both-fined-dollar25000/ar-AAhdZjN

The NBA has become a joke on sports radio. People are questioning the timing of the Green suspension, and now why Curry was not suspended for the final game. 25k is chump change and throwing your mouth piece is simply outrageous. If he threw it down on the ground, ok.....I might be wrong, but throwing a mouthpiece into the stands.......

In any regard they will probably have the highest rated NBA final game in history, so the NBA got what it wanted, but it lost league integrity, and not one thing will change on the results of this series other than the NBA brand has been damaged. I expect that Curry will be redeemed with a good game and a Warrior win, but as much as I love the way the MVP is playing, he was way wrong and should have been suspended.

295Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/18/2016, 12:40 pm

2seaoat



The NBA has let the cow out of the barn on this year's playoffs. If sports radio or internet comments are any indication of the public's confidence that the NBA is letting the players play without league interference, the NBA is considered a fraud. I honestly do not agree that there was an obvious slant in the calls in the last three games, but the green suspension and the Curry non suspension has everyone going nutso on how the fix is on. You think of the fix in my beloved White Sox team when the black sox had gamblers take over the game of baseball, but that was pennies compared to the money which is in basketball today with tv rights, fan followings, and gambling money in play. Stern did a great job as commissioner, but I am not so sure about silver who is wanting to have internet gambling on sports legalized.......tell me the last time we heard a complaint about the NCAA tournament refs or suspension of players being an issue in the national tournament......it is a non issue. The NBA is tainted and Silver will not be able to issue 25k fines against a reputable and reserved person like Kerr to cap the growing distrust in the way the league is being ran.....the public is not looking at this as a level playing field. Green should have been suspended in the OK series, and Curry should be done for the year......if the almighty dollar is going to take the integrity of the game, do not be surprised when those dollars disappear if the public thinks these games are nothing more than carnival games.

296Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/18/2016, 1:40 pm

Guest


Guest

The rules were in place. The rules were broken. The penalties are standard and ordinary.

297Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/18/2016, 4:25 pm

2seaoat



The rules were in place. The rules were broken. The penalties are standard and ordinary.

There is no standard and ordinary in not suspending Green in the OK series, and not suspending Curry in the finals. If any other player but James or Curry had thrown a mouthpiece at the public in the stands they would be suspended. Period. I am a big fan of Curry, but he should not be playing in the finals, and maybe if Green had been properly suspended after the kick to the groin(2nd) which you agreed should be penalized, a small market team like OK would have been in the finals.......my point is simple, if the penalties and action of the league has been ordinary, then why are coaches, analysts, and the public sharing the perception that these decisions were tainted by the desire to get the highest TV ratings........a good decision for the league, players who are getting large raises this summer from the new contracts, and the tv folks who are paying the bills, but for the perception that the NBA is not pro wrestling.....I am not so sure these ordinary decisions are best for the long term NBA product.

298Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/18/2016, 4:45 pm

Guest


Guest

Meh... it was just a mouthpiece. I stopped worrying about rules in the nba when they stopped calling traveling. It's entertainment. It's actually staying much more current and evolves to what the fans want. No more bad boyz... today it's soft n flashy.

299Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/18/2016, 5:25 pm

2seaoat



I get the traveling not being called, but it is changing the game.....that extra step allows for spectacular dunks and fan adoration, but I actually have been complimentary of the refs for the most part the last ten years, but I have my suspicions of Silver and how the finals are manipulated. Stern was very subtle in his stewardship, but the last three weeks have been rather blatant, and every time I turn on the sports radio call in shows, it appears that folks just think it is rigged. Now no matter how the finals turn out, it will either be make up time for the Warriors, or penalty time for the complaints from the warriors, all completely unnecessary because no ref call has changed the outcome of any of the games. The league not suspending players in a timely manner however, is an entire different matter.

300Playoffs - Page 12 Empty Re: Playoffs 6/19/2016, 8:13 pm

2seaoat



Game time.....the NBA got the game 7 they wanted.

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